Ottawa's Byward Market

[rocketphish]

Rideau Centre police hub may not open to public until 2025
'Staffing limitations' to blame, police oversight board hears

Avanthika Anand · CBC News
Posted: Dec 19, 2023 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: December 19

The Ottawa Police Service's new downtown hub may not open to the public until at least 2025, the force's chief says.

Earlier this year, the service announced its future "neighbourhood operations centre" in the Rideau Centre mall would give officers a space to meet and collaborate with community groups.

According to a report presented Monday at the Ottawa Police Services Board, police will take possession of the space in March 2024, with a target of being fully operational by the end of spring.

Chief Eric Stubbs told media ahead of the board meeting the facility, which isn't a proper police station, won't be open to the public for at least 12 to 18 months after that.

"Staffing limitations" account for that, according to the report.

Officers will "come and go as they coordinate operations, hold briefings, process reports, access the OPS computer system and host community meetings," the report goes on to say.

Stubbs added that the centre will help officers "strategize on how best to manage the people that need that assistance or are of concern in the market."

He's expected to give an update on the centre in April.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...perations-centre-byward-market-1.7062897

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Rideau Centre police hub may not open to public until 2025
'Staffing limitations' to blame, police oversight board hears

Avanthika Anand · CBC News
Posted: Dec 19, 2023 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: December 19

The Ottawa Police Service's new downtown hub may not open to the public until at least 2025, the force's chief says.

Earlier this year, the service announced its future "neighbourhood operations centre" in the Rideau Centre mall would give officers a space to meet and collaborate with community groups.

According to a report presented Monday at the Ottawa Police Services Board, police will take possession of the space in March 2024, with a target of being fully operational by the end of spring.

Chief Eric Stubbs told media ahead of the board meeting the facility, which isn't a proper police station, won't be open to the public for at least 12 to 18 months after that.

"Staffing limitations" account for that, according to the report.

Officers will "come and go as they coordinate operations, hold briefings, process reports, access the OPS computer system and host community meetings," the report goes on to say.

Stubbs added that the centre will help officers "strategize on how best to manage the people that need that assistance or are of concern in the market."

He's expected to give an update on the centre in April.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ot...perations-centre-byward-market-1.7062897

"He clarified that there is no hard timeline for when the neighbourhood operations centre is open to the public."

A great use of $250k for the first year then. Shame they couldn't hire staff out of the $13.4M of increased funding they got - I'm sure it will be put to good use instead

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

"He clarified that there is no hard timeline for when the neighbourhood operations centre is open to the public."

A great use of $250k for the first year then. Shame they couldn't hire staff out of the $13.4M of increased funding they got - I'm sure it will be put to good use instead

This is a clear case of the tail wagging the dog. It's crazy and must be frustrating how little control our elected officials have. Our system is broken when they get away with this kind of Bureaucratic jujitsu. I get it's hard for police to enter the disaster that is the Byward market that has many societal causes but just because it's hard doesn't mean we they don't have to do it.

[OTSkyline]

I'm disappointed that the locale won't actually be street-front or on Rideau St or in the market like I thought it would.

That's where we need boots on the ground and a police presence, having a pop-up Police Shop on the 3rd floor of the mall won't have the same impacts in my opinion.

[rocketphish]

ByWard Market businesses in ‘crisis mode’ as crime rates and safety concerns increase
"Clients don’t come downtown anymore, it's not safe."

Abyssinia Abebe, Special to the Citizen
Published Dec 21, 2023 • 3 minute read

<snip>

After several forced entry robberies in the area, ByWard Market businesses expressed safety concerns in a meeting held with the City of Ottawa and Ottawa Police Service officials at Bistro Ristoro, a restaurant in the ByWard Market.

The increase in crime rates within the heart of the capital of Canada is leaving many downtown business owners feeling unsafe.

As well, despite repeated efforts to draw the attention of the City of Ottawa towards a sustainable solution to assist the homeless population, retailers say the situation remains unsolved – and growing.

<more>

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...crime-rates-and-safety-concerns-increase

[lrt's friend]

You have no idea how many people I know have commented about how unsafe downtown has become and will not go there. Whether true or not, that is the perception, and the homeless problem is very evident from my observation.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You have no idea how many people I know have commented about how unsafe downtown has become and will not go there. Whether true or not, that is the perception, and the homeless problem is very evident from my observation.

Really depends on the context of people. I have coworkers who live in the suburbs that are horrified at the sight of a homeless person. Obviously its sad how many homeless people we have, but I'm talking people who think a homeless person on the street is going to rob them. So if those are the type of people who think downtown is unsafe, they need to get out more.

People I know who have spent a lot of time downtown over their lives haven't changed much, whether that be men or women. I think it all comes down to what you're used to.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Really depends on the context of people. I have coworkers who live in the suburbs that are horrified at the sight of a homeless person. Obviously its sad how many homeless people we have, but I'm talking people who think a homeless person on the street is going to rob them. So if those are the type of people who think downtown is unsafe, they need to get out more.

People I know who have spent a lot of time downtown over their lives haven't changed much, whether that be men or women. I think it all comes down to what you're used to.

I think it is much worse than it was a few years ago. Part of it might be the loss of activity so there are fewer non-homeless.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You have no idea how many people I know have commented about how unsafe downtown has become and will not go there. Whether true or not, that is the perception, and the homeless problem is very evident from my observation.

Yes. You can queue up the apologists but the fact is that we have a major problem in our downtown and it has become much worse in recent years. That’s what egregious levels of homelessness, unmitigated hard drug use, and a dearth of people will do.

Let’s not beat around the bush. This city is in deep trouble in a lot of different aspects including this one.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Really depends on the context of people. I have coworkers who live in the suburbs that are horrified at the sight of a homeless person. Obviously its sad how many homeless people we have, but I'm talking people who think a homeless person on the street is going to rob them. So if those are the type of people who think downtown is unsafe, they need to get out more.

Part of it is perception for sure, as there is a huge cohort of people that has spent the past 2-3 years mostly staying put in their suburbs. And with hybrid work and the reduction in transit use, lots don't even get to see that cross-section of society on their commute anymore, except from a car window.

I don't think that there is much actual evidence to suggest that downtown in more dangerous than before, but it doesn't really matter, because in this case perception is everything. So the city really does need to make a big effort to address it. The challenge will be convincing that big cohort of people who don't think that downtown should be a priority at all.

[DTcrawler]

I live downtown and I'm really on the fence about the issue. On eye-test alone it definitely appears that the homeless problem is much more pronounced than it was pre-pandemic. That being said, I find it hard to convince myself that I'm less safe than I was pre-pandemic. Of course, people have different levels of what defines "feeling safe". As others have said, for many suburbanites, the mere sight of a homeless person (or even worse, being asked for change by one) could be enough to deter them from ever going downtown again. For others, the presence of homeless is a non-factor but aggressive, unpredictable behaviour becomes an issue. And then you get into irrefutable problems like public/private property damage, forced entry, burglary, petty theft, harassment, etc. I think the latter part of this post is where the bulk of the attention needs to be focused, and in short order. I say this fully realizing that in most cases, addiction is the root cause of the issue. And I'm not afraid to say that a more aggressive and less voluntary approach to providing rehabilitation services should be part of the discussion.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I live downtown and I'm really on the fence about the issue. On eye-test alone it definitely appears that the homeless problem is much more pronounced than it was pre-pandemic. That being said, I find it hard to convince myself that I'm less safe than I was pre-pandemic. Of course, people have different levels of what defines "feeling safe". As others have said, for many suburbanites, the mere sight of a homeless person (or even worse, being asked for change by one) could be enough to deter them from ever going downtown again. For others, the presence of homeless is a non-factor but aggressive, unpredictable behaviour becomes an issue. And then you get into irrefutable problems like public/private property damage, forced entry, burglary, petty theft, harassment, etc. I think the latter part of this post is where the bulk of the attention needs to be focused, and in short order. I say this fully realizing that in most cases, addiction is the root cause of the issue. And I'm not afraid to say that a more aggressive and less voluntary approach to providing rehabilitation services should be part of the discussion.

I would say it isn't just addiction but also mental health issues, often in combination. Part of the problem in addressing this, is human rights and privacy rules. It is difficult to impose rehabilitation based on this. We have gone from a situation where many were institutionalized to letting them attempt to cope on their own. Many (probably most) find the help they need including suitable housing and support but others are unwilling or unable to accept anything beyond the most basic help (living in a shelter). There is no easy solution. On the other hand, the easy way is to just keep adding more resources to maintain the homeless population. And the homeless problem gets worse.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I would say it isn't just addiction but also mental health issues, often in combination. Part of the problem in addressing this, is human rights and privacy rules. It is difficult to impose rehabilitation based on this. We have gone from a situation where many were institutionalized to letting them attempt to cope on their own. Many (probably most) find the help they need including suitable housing and support but others are unwilling or unable to accept anything beyond the most basic help (living in a shelter). There is no easy solution. On the other hand, the easy way is to just keep adding more resources to maintain the homeless population. And the homeless problem gets worse.

It's really not that complicated. Enforce existing laws for all and allow avoiding jail or other sanction with addiction treatment.

Of course the unhoused can't pay fines and we shouldn't fill our prisons with people who commit petty crimes but give them a choice and fund treatment.

[rdaner]

I have noticed and read that addicts and homeless people tend to avoid areas that are busy with regular people. So as more and more housing is built in Ottawa's cbd and in Byward Market is should lessen the problem.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I have noticed and read that addicts and homeless people tend to avoid areas that are busy with regular people. So as more and more housing is built in Ottawa's cbd and in Byward Market is should lessen the problem.

I think that is true, although the concentration of shelters and safe injection sites is going to ensure that it continues to be a hot spot.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by rdaner

I have noticed and read that addicts and homeless people tend to avoid areas that are busy with regular people. So as more and more housing is built in Ottawa's cbd and in Byward Market is should lessen the problem.

There is no evidence for this so far. That holds if people can see someone selling drugs and call the police and they will come and stop it. If that is not an option than it won't work. The Corner of Cumberland and George has two large residences, soon to be a third, a restuarant and Canabis shop and it's one of the two or three worst spots in the market. Only St. Patrick and Kind Edward is worse. It's actually interesting that given no policing they actually prefer areas with more people. And rightly so it keeps them safer. You don't really see the empty lots or nearly abandoned parking lots being used like you would in a city where there is policing around public intoxication, urination, and selling and using drugs.

[Jay31]

I lived downtown until the middle of the pandemic (2021), and then moved out a bit into Nepean. Unfortunately for people living downtown, the political consensus in Ottawa seems to be that as long as the homeless, addicts, etc. are downtown and out of site of your average suburbanite, they are out of mind, downtown can rot and not be of concern to the rest of the city. People even just a little outside of downtown are horrified by anyone who even looks strange. I recall our neighbourhood Facebook group getting up and arms that someone with a mental illness was spotted near Loblaws and multiple people called police(it wasn't clear they were in distress). I suspect anyone in dire straights is transported into the core so as to be out of sight, out of mind for the rest of the city.

I still go downtown regularly - my parents live downtown and the better restaurants are there, and visually, it does feel like there are more homeless and addicts than there was pre-pandemic. I noticed an increase into 2021 - our last year in the core. I still don't think it's dangerous by any measure, but the perception of it being so is real with visuals to back it up.

I don't see more police helping...at least not as has been proposed. If anything, I think the solution will come from more people living downtown - more density, offices converted to residential, more businesses and venues to draw people to the geographic centre of the city. The alternative is a core that continues to die, and with that I believe the city will also fall into a death spiral. As great as it is to live and work in the suburbs, no great cities have been built on suburbia around a dead core... you need central places to draw people together and hold events that's a desirable place to be.

[rocketphish]

ByWard Market is still the place to be, these business owners say
'People ... have this perception of the market as being unsafe or rough. But if you spend time here, it is not.'

Mohammed Adam, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 25, 2024 • Last updated 7 hours ago • 3 minute read

David Mangano and Pat Nicastro want to set the record straight about the ByWard Market: It is very much alive and thriving, despite the “negativity” surrounding it.

The market has been in the news recently as headlines paint a bleak picture of a place overrun by drug addicts, gangs and homeless people — where crime is forcing businesses to close, and fun-seekers to retreat.

But Mangano, co-owner of THE GRAND Pizzeria & Bar, and Nicastro, who owns La Bottega, say nothing is further from the truth. Actually, they say, the Market remains a safe, vibrant entertainment and tourist hub — and very much the No. 1 place people visit.

“The thing is, we suffer from a real perception problem from all the negativity,” says Mangano. “People who live outside the ByWard Market or outside the city have this perception of the market as being unsafe or rough. But if you spend time here, as a lot of people do, it is not.”

He says that beyond its historical significance, the market’s great appeal, which no other area in the city can match, is its proximity to the most iconic institutions in Ottawa: Parliament, the National Gallery, the National Arts Centre, museums and other must-see places. “The market is the launching ground for people to go and explore all that,” he says. “We offer things you can’t see anywhere in the city. There is no place like the ByWard Market on a great summer day.”

Nicastro says he is baffled by the narrative that people are becoming reluctant to visit the market. He says the market is a huge draw, and people flock in to enjoy its iconic restaurants, boutiques and array of specialty shops. “December was a very strong month for us here. We had a great year (2023),” Nicastro says.

The market has more than 600 businesses, and he points out that while places such as Bank Street are emptying, vacancy rates are at all-time lows in the ByWard Market, and investment is growing. Already, three new hotels are going up.

So, what about the rising crime that has already cost the market one business, threatening others and leaving some patrons on edge? Both businessmen acknowledge that crime is a problem, but maintain that the situation is no different from other parts of the city. “The issues we see here are the same issues we see everywhere in the city, and ByWard Market doesn’t deserve to be beat up constantly,” Nicastro says.

Mangano says business leaders have been begging the city for solutions, and in the short term, the answer lies in more policing. “Safety and security are the No. 1 concern, and every business person will tell you the same thing: we need more cops,” he says. “When the police are here, they restore order and they act as a deterrent. When police patrol, the homeless people disperse and the drug addicts disperse. It brings calm.”

The planned police “kiosk” in the Rideau Centre is a good first step, but more needs to be done, he adds. Entrenched problems such as homelessness, drug abuse and mental health disorders are all issues downtowns in major cities everywhere are facing. “We need to get people off drugs and into rehab, into treatment, and we need housing,” Mangano says.

As a first step, the social services that people need must be dispersed across the city, and not be concentrated in the ByWard Market.

But so far, the city hasn’t stepped up, he says. “The people who work here, live here, own businesses here, feel abandoned by city hall. There’s a lot of talk, a lot of ideas, but no action,” he says. Mangano says Mayor Mark Sutcliffe promised to focus on ByWard Market, but so far little has happened.

“This is the place to be in Ottawa. This is where everybody comes when they visit, and we need the city to focus on the ByWard Market.”

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa journalist and commentator. Reach him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/adam-b...he-place-to-be-these-business-owners-say

[acottawa]

I wonder how much would be helped by just fixing it up. The pavers, street furniture, lighting, paving looks to be decades old. The market building itself seems to have been last renovated in the 1970s. The stalls used by vendors look like they were surplus from a refugee camp.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder how much would be helped by just fixing it up. The pavers, street furniture, lighting, paving looks to be decades old. The market building itself seems to have been last renovated in the 1970s. The stalls used by vendors look like they were surplus from a refugee camp.

Lipstick on a pig?