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  #1641  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2023, 2:06 PM
azcats azcats is offline
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https://www.pdc.arizona.edu/project/19-9472

I don't know who is paying for this - but, $23 million seems like a lot of money for this small building.

This is why asu is going to need a lot of money to build their med school campus over the coming years.
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  #1642  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2023, 3:22 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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Last June...Crow stated - all funding would be from private sources. Sure wish he would be honest - or, make up his mind. So far, I have only seen reports of funds from the taxpayers. $30 million from the Board of Regents...and if this bond passes: $12 million. Starting from scratch - that won't get you very far. However, you have to start somewhere.
You're right, you have to start somewhere. I believe the UA Med School in Phoenix also received money from the bond program in 2006 so something similar being done for ASU's new Med School. A lot of private investment will be required.

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The UofA medical school down in Tucson - the whole complex with hospital...pharmacy school...Cancer Center...nursing school...research buildings....Heart Center...Children's Center...Respiratory Center, etc., and more - occupy a huge amount of territory north of Speedway and along Campbell Ave. If asu intends to grow into a major med school complex as the UofA has - do they own enough land in the Phoenix Bio complex between Van Buren & Roosevelt and 5th Street & 7th Street?
They have plenty of space up in the Discovery Oasis corridor by Mayo. I think the more traditional health disciplines/biotech may be housed by Discovery Oasis (since ASU already has buildings up there) and the medical school/engineering disciplines will be in the PBC. There will be plenty of space...and if they're running out...that just means more density/taller buildings!!

I do wish the ASU Medical School was a little bit more visually appealing. Something along the lines of the new UA Center for Advanced Molecular and Immunological Therapies building.


Last edited by ASU Diablo; Oct 20, 2023 at 3:40 PM.
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  #1643  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2023, 3:34 PM
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I seem to remember a better site plan for the Biomedical core from Phoenix's econ development that may have been posted here but I can't find it.

It showed the actual massings with potential floor plates replacing the Mercado. Does anyone have it?
This one?
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  #1644  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2023, 5:15 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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They have plenty of space up in the Discovery Oasis corridor by Mayo. I think the more traditional health disciplines/biotech may be housed by Discovery Oasis (since ASU already has buildings up there) and the medical school/engineering disciplines will be in the PBC. There will be plenty of space...and if they're running out...that just means more density/taller buildings!!
They have plenty of space downtown, and they will buy the land they need to grow if the PBC isn't enough, the last concern downtown has is "Not enough land" when it comes to density that's what we want. That means taller buildings and the spilling over into yet ungentrified areas, Warehouse, Nuestro, Captial mall, The Triangle, North of McDowell, Evans-Churchil, Garfield etc.
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  #1645  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2023, 10:32 PM
azcats azcats is offline
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There will be plenty of space...and if they're running out...that just means more density/taller buildings!!
Ok, well... I guess if the University of Pittsburgh can build a 42 story building on their campus - why not.

Good Luck!
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  #1646  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2023, 4:39 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Ok, well... I guess if the University of Pittsburgh can build a 42 story building on their campus - why not.

Good Luck!
Yes actually, Phoenix is a larger city and ASU is a larger university and both have vastly more resources than their Pittsburg counterparts.

the lack of ambition in this city is astounding sometimes. People still act like this is some podunk backwater town.
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  #1647  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2023, 3:24 AM
locolife locolife is offline
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Ok, well... I guess if the University of Pittsburgh can build a 42 story building on their campus - why not.

Good Luck!
And at nearly 100-years old I'm sure it's the modern day blueprint ASU is following for their medical school today.
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  #1648  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 4:44 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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University of Arizona’s financial health is “fragile, hard choices are inevitable”

Whoah how does this even happen?

Anyways, hopefully this doesn't impact the proposed CAMI building that is scheduled to break ground next year. Hopefully all capital improvement projects that will be delayed are within Tucson

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/u...-hard-choices-are-inevitable/ar-AA1jzktc
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  #1649  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 5:04 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
Whoah how does this even happen?

Anyways, hopefully this doesn't impact the proposed CAMI building that is scheduled to break ground next year. Hopefully all capital improvement projects that will be delayed are within Tucson

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/u...-hard-choices-are-inevitable/ar-AA1jzktc
I can tell you how it happens. My wife has worked for ASU for a decade and the entire University industry is a bloated overpriced mess. Pretty much for the last century Universities could expect ever more students, ever more funds, ever more growth and as we can all see they did massively.

However, since covid the never-ending growth has suddenly changed. And it's not even a major change they are seeing a decrease in students in somewhere like 2-4%. Now the universities are essentially trying to steal "market share" with each other and cannibalize their own potential student basis between in person and online education.

There appears to be no institutional ability to deal with stagnation or god forbid shrinking of the student and a reduction in funding. I dont think they have even begun to confront the reality that Zoomers (Kids below about 22ish) have simply significantly less people in it that Millennials which means less students not to mention the value of degrees vs vocational or trade education. Unless Millennials start having a LOT more kids in the next decade or so while they still can then there is no light at the end of the tunnel either as lower birthrates will continue to produce less future students.

Higher Ed in general is going to have a reckoning in the coming decades as they learn to operate in the new Paradigm and ironically Academia is extremely resistant to change and confronting reality. My wife has to deal with Deans and tenured professors who treat the internet like an inconsequential fad and act like they are some romantic thinkers rather than the people running an absolutely massive multibillion dollar education business (oh wait sorry its not a "buisness" its an "organization" )
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  #1650  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 5:25 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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I can tell you how it happens. My wife has worked for ASU for a decade and the entire University industry is a bloated overpriced mess. Pretty much for the last century Universities could expect ever more students, ever more funds, ever more growth and as we can all see they did massively.

However, since covid the never-ending growth has suddenly changed. And it's not even a major change they are seeing a decrease in students in somewhere like 2-4%. Now the universities are essentially trying to steal "market share" with each other and cannibalize their own potential student basis between in person and online education.

There appears to be no institutional ability to deal with stagnation or god forbid shrinking of the student and a reduction in funding. I dont think they have even begun to confront the reality that Zoomers (Kids below about 22ish) have simply significantly less people in it that Millennials which means less students not to mention the value of degrees vs vocational or trade education. Unless Millennials start having a LOT more kids in the next decade or so while they still can then there is no light at the end of the tunnel either as lower birthrates will continue to produce less future students.

Higher Ed in general is going to have a reckoning in the coming decades as they learn to operate in the new Paradigm and ironically Academia is extremely resistant to change and confronting reality. My wife has to deal with Deans and tenured professors who treat the internet like an inconsequential fad and act like they are some romantic thinkers rather than the people running an absolutely massive multibillion dollar education business (oh wait sorry its not a "buisness" its an "organization" )
Sure. OR it can also be attributed to the whole debacle of the Ashford University purchase and its online platform, trying to compete with what ASU has been doing. It has been a failure and bleeding cash ever since. I had totally forgotten about this. Didn't ua also have to sell their hospital system to Banner due to similar financial concerns? Smells like a leadership problem.
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  #1651  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 11:30 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I can tell you how it happens. My wife has worked for ASU for a decade and the entire University industry is a bloated overpriced mess. Pretty much for the last century Universities could expect ever more students, ever more funds, ever more growth and as we can all see they did massively.

However, since covid the never-ending growth has suddenly changed. And it's not even a major change they are seeing a decrease in students in somewhere like 2-4%. Now the universities are essentially trying to steal "market share" with each other and cannibalize their own potential student basis between in person and online education.

There appears to be no institutional ability to deal with stagnation or god forbid shrinking of the student and a reduction in funding. I dont think they have even begun to confront the reality that Zoomers (Kids below about 22ish) have simply significantly less people in it that Millennials which means less students not to mention the value of degrees vs vocational or trade education. Unless Millennials start having a LOT more kids in the next decade or so while they still can then there is no light at the end of the tunnel either as lower birthrates will continue to produce less future students.

Higher Ed in general is going to have a reckoning in the coming decades as they learn to operate in the new Paradigm and ironically Academia is extremely resistant to change and confronting reality. My wife has to deal with Deans and tenured professors who treat the internet like an inconsequential fad and act like they are some romantic thinkers rather than the people running an absolutely massive multibillion dollar education business (oh wait sorry its not a "buisness" its an "organization" )
This analysis, especially about birth rates, is dead on.

We know from student clearinghouse data that total enrollment in postsecondary is down about 10% since prepandemic or a million students nationwide. And that was in an environment with stable populations. Universities are about to experience what K-12s currently face: massive birth rate declines. Todays junior and senior HS classes are double digit percentages larger than current elementary grades.

Colleges survived with $77 billion in federal COVID monies and those are now spent. Fitch ratings predicts college closures will come in a strong way.

College undergrad enrollment increased for decades in America. The promise was education, a fun social experience during one’s formative years, and a resume that very likely meant improved future wages. So what has changed? Is that value proposition suffering or are we simply pendulum swinging back to a more appropriate amount of undergrad seeking people? It’s probably a bit of both.

How does this relate to UA? I'm not sure I haven't studied their financials but I bet they took on some short term debt with variable interest that is killing them. They did mention internal loans to athletics as part of the problem- you don't give out internal loans unless you think they will have the ability to repay and it sounds like that 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 didn't work.

48 colleges closed their doors last year. 35 the year before. I predict smaller private schools with less than 1000 total students are about to face massive challenges.

I predict many more young people will choose to work and acquire skills and only seek out undergrad programs when it suits them or they decide they need it for their career. That's not all bad. But it will be disruptive to higher ed.
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  #1652  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 12:06 AM
azcats azcats is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I can tell you how it happens. My wife has worked for ASU for a decade and the entire University industry is a bloated overpriced mess. Pretty much for the last century Universities could expect ever more students, ever more funds, ever more growth and as we can all see they did massively.

However, since covid the never-ending growth has suddenly changed. And it's not even a major change they are seeing a decrease in students in somewhere like 2-4%. Now the universities are essentially trying to steal "market share" with each other and cannibalize their own potential student basis between in person and online education.

There appears to be no institutional ability to deal with stagnation or god forbid shrinking of the student and a reduction in funding. I dont think they have even begun to confront the reality that Zoomers (Kids below about 22ish) have simply significantly less people in it that Millennials which means less students not to mention the value of degrees vs vocational or trade education. Unless Millennials start having a LOT more kids in the next decade or so while they still can then there is no light at the end of the tunnel either as lower birthrates will continue to produce less future students.

Higher Ed in general is going to have a reckoning in the coming decades as they learn to operate in the new Paradigm and ironically Academia is extremely resistant to change and confronting reality. My wife has to deal with Deans and tenured professors who treat the internet like an inconsequential fad and act like they are some romantic thinkers rather than the people running an absolutely massive multibillion dollar education business (oh wait sorry its not a "buisness" its an "organization" )
You're right - it is a money making business - and should be run properly like a money making business - teaching and preparing young people FOR THE REAL WORLD - and doing serious research that helps our fellow man. How ironic - now, I understand why I received from the UofA today a lengthy survey. I am an alumnus - that donates - they don't seem to be that sensitive to that. I also stated in that survey - if they don't show me more respect of what I feel is important with regards to this country and my contributions - don't expect more donations. I am sure I am not alone in that thinking. People are not going to continue throwing money at wasteful B.S. I blasted them in that survey - that what they have become is a BLOATED GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY! Just last week I saw where (will not mention the name) spoke on the Mall at the UofA - FREE speech - and the bureaucrats (labor is the biggest expense: salary...social security input...pensions...insurance...disability) not to mention - when some employee sues - workers comp payments - the (worthless) bureaucrats sent out a campus wide e-mail stating that if any student or employee - staff, etc. because of this speaker - needed "mental health counseling..." to contact...(wherever). MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING?!? Will they change their diapers, too?!? I am not sure what they are teaching the young (21 years old - they are not babies) kids, today - but, if they are just screwing around - don't waste money - let them face the real world - be productive - and work. I have seen shows where they interview young college age students - and they will ask, "Who did our country win our independence from?" Their answer: "I don't know...China?" "When did the American Civil War end?" "I don't know...1985?" "Name a country aside from the USA?" They can't even name Canada! It's so unbelievable - I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

The UofA receives over $800 million in research dollars a year - that is from the feds and state, etc. They are in the top 20 of all public universities. However, their budgets to run the university - is a different matter. The Arizona state legislation will have some say in this - and will (should) say - you need to tighten your belt - like everyone else has to - and cut expenses. I dealt with municipal, county, state workers for years in California - a lot of nice people. However, even by their own admission - they would say to me, "...we have five people in this department - and we really only need one." They make great salaries...have great pensions...insurance, etc. Do you know how many workers in the private sector don't have insurance - let alone, a pension?!?

This could be a political (plea) ploy to get the state legislators to increase their operating budget. Well...if we go into another deep recession - they better be prepared for that.
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  #1653  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 12:39 AM
azcats azcats is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I can tell you how it happens. My wife has worked for ASU for a decade and the entire University industry is a bloated overpriced mess. business (oh wait sorry its not a "buisness" its an "organization" )
Ok, I have lived my entire life ...intense UofA - asu rivalry. I am sure by now you now where my allegiance is. I grew up in the Phoenix area - many friends and family are Devils. Most of it is all fun.

HOWEVER...I have watched that Crow at asu monopolize the whole Phoenix metro with one university - like a Circle K on every street corner. Getting thousands to enroll - very high acceptance rate. He gets their tuition from everyone of those students - along with state funding per student. How is there any justification for asu to spend $300 million to DECREASE seating at Sun Devil Stadium?!? They spent 1/3 of a billion dollars to take out 20,000 seats. Please don't say it was all from the athletic department. They know how to sidestep and co-mingle taxpayers dollars with private donations. At least UCLA took a tarp - spent a couple of hundred dollars...and printed UCLA on it - and covered the empty seats.

The worst: Paying a 33 year old - just like someone you would walk into Walmart with - $4 MILLION dollars a year - to coach asu's football team...and they are 2-7. Doesn't look good. And, he is a state employee.
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  #1654  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 2:55 AM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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Originally Posted by azcats View Post
Ok, I have lived my entire life ...intense UofA - asu rivalry. I am sure by now you now where my allegiance is. I grew up in the Phoenix area - many friends and family are Devils. Most of it is all fun.

HOWEVER...I have watched that Crow at asu monopolize the whole Phoenix metro with one university - like a Circle K on every street corner. Getting thousands to enroll - very high acceptance rate. He gets their tuition from everyone of those students - along with state funding per student. How is there any justification for asu to spend $300 million to DECREASE seating at Sun Devil Stadium?!? They spent 1/3 of a billion dollars to take out 20,000 seats. Please don't say it was all from the athletic department. They know how to sidestep and co-mingle taxpayers dollars with private donations. At least UCLA took a tarp - spent a couple of hundred dollars...and printed UCLA on it - and covered the empty seats.

The worst: Paying a 33 year old - just like someone you would walk into Walmart with - $4 MILLION dollars a year - to coach asu's football team...and they are 2-7. Doesn't look good. And, he is a state employee.
What a weird thing to bring up. Now let’s see…Fisch was hired on Dec 2020 for 5 year, $14.1M contract or $2.82M a year. His first season (2021), he went a pathetic 1-11. That’s right…just ONE win and lost to a pathetic NAU Football squad. So that one Win cost about $2.82M. Dilly, on the other hand, in his first season already has TWO wins at about $2M average a win. I would say ASU got the better ROI, of course, simply looking at their first seasons.

And Fisch is a state employee. Wow.
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  #1655  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 4:22 AM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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HOWEVER...I have watched that Crow at asu monopolize the whole Phoenix metro with one university - like a Circle K on every street corner. Getting thousands to enroll - very high acceptance rate. He gets their tuition from everyone of those students - along with state funding per student..
State Univ get block funding- not per student funding. So Crows expansion certainly has increased tuition rev but they never stop complaining that their per student amount decreased when they jumped enrollment.

Funny- you don’t hear them talk about per student funding anymore, because they likely have peaked at least for in state students.
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  #1656  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 5:20 AM
azcats azcats is offline
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State Univ get block funding- not per student funding. So Crows expansion certainly has increased tuition rev but they never stop complaining that their per student amount decreased when they jumped enrollment.

Funny- you don’t hear them talk about per student funding anymore, because they likely have peaked at least for in state students.
Block funding would give the university greater flexibility of how they want to spend the money - once they get it. Wouldn't be the pressure to allocate it specifically to the individual students need. Like maybe, a better student/teacher ratio - instead of cramming 1,000 students into one class! While living in California, I saw a lot of asu recruitment ads. Lot more money from out-of-state tuition.
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  #1657  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 7:13 PM
phxjack phxjack is offline
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The University of Arizona Health Sciences has selected the design-build team of McCarthy + SmithGroup to develop the Center for Advanced Molecular and Immunological Therapies, or CAMI, a biomedical research hub focused on developing biological therapies that stimulate or suppress the immune system to fight disease.

November 2024 is the anticipated groundbreaking date for the new building, which will be operational by mid 2027

https://healthsciences.arizona.edu/news/cami-takes-another-step-forward-selection-design-build-team
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  #1658  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 7:41 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Great look and design!
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  #1659  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 8:08 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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hopefully this isn't one of the capital projects that gets delayed/scrapped due to their ongoing financial/cash issues
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  #1660  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2023, 11:40 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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hopefully this isn't one of the capital projects that gets delayed/scrapped due to their ongoing financial/cash issues
That design/build might get scrapped for a DBB given their current financial woes!
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