The Midwest: one region or two?

[edale]

The level of urbanization and state population densities clearly differ in places like Ohio and Michigan (lower portion) from states like Iowa or the Dakotas. In Ohio, you can't drive more than an hour or so without running into a decent sized city. You're never more than 2 hours from one of the 3 C's, plus the myriad smaller cities like Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. which would all be far more notable in less urbanized states. It's basically the opposite of Iowa or Nebraska, where there are vast swaths of very sparsely populated land.

There are cultural similarities between rural people everywhere. Someone living on a farm in California's Central Valley would probably live a pretty similar lifestyle to someone living on a farm in Ohio. I don't think that should be used to say that the Midwest is one giant region. If we're using states for this discussion, I think it makes sense to group the Great Lakes states together, and the Plains states as a separate grouping.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by Xing

So, wait? Is this not how some of you see the Midwest? I’ve always seen it like this:



In fact, the only states that confuse me of their regions are Oklahoma & Texas. Sometimes they’re in the south. Sometimes they’re in the southwest. They’re definitely different from the rest of the south, in my opinion.

This is the only Midwest map that makes sense and it's the census definition of what the Midwest is. There is a lot of cultural variation within that map, but it's still a somewhat cohesive region.

[Docere]

Population density (per square mile)

Ohio 282
Michigan 174 (Lower Peninsula 240)
Indiana 189
Illinois 232
Wisconsin 109

Minnesota 69
Iowa 98
Missouri 88
North Dakota 11
South Dakota 11
Nebraska 25
Kansas 35

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by edale

The level of urbanization and state population densities clearly differ in places like Ohio and Michigan (lower portion) from states like Iowa or the Dakotas. In Ohio, you can't drive more than an hour or so without running into a decent sized city. You're never more than 2 hours from one of the 3 C's, plus the myriad smaller cities like Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. which would all be far more notable in less urbanized states. It's basically the opposite of Iowa or Nebraska, where there are vast swaths of very sparsely populated land.

There are cultural similarities between rural people everywhere. Someone living on a farm in California's Central Valley would probably live a pretty similar lifestyle to someone living on a farm in Ohio. I don't think that should be used to say that the Midwest is one giant region. If we're using states for this discussion, I think it makes sense to group the Great Lakes states together, and the Plains states as a separate grouping.

It isn’t just the large, midsize, and small cities though. Ohio’s rural areas themselves are vastly more populated than those in Iowa, which has rural areas that are in turn vastly more populated than the Dakotas. Everything is more densely populated the further you get toward either coast from the continental divide. Which is the typical population distribution worldwide: dense coasts, sparse interiors.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Which is the typical population distribution worldwide: dense coasts, sparse interiors.

But the United States (and Canada) are noteworthy exceptions, since the Mississippi River watershed and Great Lakes watershed are two of the most productive farming and industrial areas on the planet, and there is no physical barrier between them. There is really nothing at all like it anywhere else, and it's one of the core reasons why The United States dominates world affairs. Tons of food, tons of lumber, and almost zero natural barriers. All of the rivers were easily bridged by the late 1800s and there are zero major tunnels.

[Docere]

About 60% of Canadians live in about 2% of the land area (the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence region or Quebec City-Windsor Corridor).

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

The level of urbanization and state population densities clearly differ in places like Ohio and Michigan (lower portion) from states like Iowa or the Dakotas. In Ohio, you can't drive more than an hour or so without running into a decent sized city. You're never more than 2 hours from one of the 3 C's, plus the myriad smaller cities like Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. which would all be far more notable in less urbanized states. It's basically the opposite of Iowa or Nebraska, where there are vast swaths of very sparsely populated land.

Illinois kinda interrupts that program though, because without Chicagoland, Illinois is Iowa. Not Ohio.

So is Illinois a great lakes state?

Or is it a great prairie state?

Yes.

Because it's a Midwest state.

Perhaps the most Midwest state

[mrnyc]

the wide mix of ohio makes it the most midwest and american state in general.

also, the obvious ‘heart of it all’ for the usa.

if you had to pick one state to rep the usa, that’s the one.

as for archtypical midwest cities, des monies or dayton, flip a quarter.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

the wide mix of ohio makes it the most midwest state in general.

Ohio does not bridge the great lakes and great prairie realms to anywhere near the same extent that Illinois does.

And by its own citizens' admissions, it has the lowest rate of "Midwest" self-identification out of the 12 main Midwest states.



Source: https://news.wttw.com/2023/10/20/which-s...-22-states-has-people-online-divided-and



How can Ohio possibly be the most Midwest state if nearly 1/4 of its people don't even think it's located in the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 Midwest?

[mrnyc]

^ yeah thats ne ohio chiming in lol, but ohio does bridge it a bit and has the fairest snd most represenative mix of everything. you could stand on a farm outside toledo, look west and not see anything but corn until the rocky mountains.

[Docere]

FWIW Illinois is also the state that comes the closest to the US demographic average (58% white, 14% Black, 6% Asian, 19% Latino).

[Steely Dan]

The main knock against Illinois as "the most Midwest state" (if such a thing even really exists), is that it's a little too urban (and thus too blue) to be prototypical Midwest, but thats entirely due to the fact that it's home to, and utterly dominated by, the Midwest's largest city by far.

The reality is probably some blend of Illinois and Iowa, which is why I've long believed that the quad cities might just be the most quintessentially midwestern place in the Midwest.

And Moline is home to John Deere, which is probably the most iconic Midwestern corporation of all time.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by edale

The level of urbanization and state population densities clearly differ in places like Ohio and Michigan (lower portion) from states like Iowa or the Dakotas. In Ohio, you can't drive more than an hour or so without running into a decent sized city. You're never more than 2 hours from one of the 3 C's, plus the myriad smaller cities like Akron, Dayton, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. which would all be far more notable in less urbanized states. It's basically the opposite of Iowa or Nebraska, where there are vast swaths of very sparsely populated land.

There are cultural similarities between rural people everywhere. Someone living on a farm in California's Central Valley would probably live a pretty similar lifestyle to someone living on a farm in Ohio. I don't think that should be used to say that the Midwest is one giant region. If we're using states for this discussion, I think it makes sense to group the Great Lakes states together, and the Plains states as a separate grouping.

I agree with all of this and would add that the eastern Great Lakes are also much larger in population than the Plains states. Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan are all among the 10 most populated states, while most of the Plains states are in the bottom 20.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

^ yeah thats ne ohio chiming in lol, but ohio does bridge it a bit and has the fairest snd most represenative mix of everything. you could stand on a farm outside toledo, look west and not see anything but corn until the rocky mountains.

Ohio is the (cultural) bridge to the Great Lakes from the East Coast, and Illinois the bridge to the Great Plaines from the Great Lakes.

I've done the drive between Chicago and NE Corridor and back several times by a few different routes and I'm pretty confident in that observation.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Handro

Ohio is the (cultural) bridge to the Great Lakes from the East Coast, and Illinois the bridge to the Great Plaines from the Great Lakes.

I've done the drive between Chicago and NE Corridor and back several times by a few different routes and I'm pretty confident in that observation.

I think this is a succinct and correct assessment. If you're on I-70, the eastern most portion in Ohio is very hilly and 100% Appalachia. It's a ~4 hour drive from DC. Conversely, the western most portion is flat as a pancake corn country and ~4 hours from Chicago. Definitely a transition state, and I can see the same with Illinois going north to south.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

the eastern Great Lakes are also much larger in population than the Plains states. Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan are all among the 10 most populated states, while most of the Plains states are in the bottom 20.

There are some intermediate size levels in my mind.

I'd group 'em like this:

IL - 12.8M
OH - 11.8M
MI - 10.1M


IN - 6.8M
MO - 6.2M
WI - 5.9M
MN - 5.7M


IA - 3.2M
KS - 2.9M
NE - 2.0M


SD - 900K
ND - 800K

[mhays]

That's interesting. It's also interesting that the size ratio is actually less than the ratio of state pops in the West or Northeast.

I voted "yes." The Midwest is obviously not a monolith, but it's as much of a region as any of the big collectives.

[Docere]

Illinois and Chicago are clearly the anchor of the region.

Illinois contains the largest metropolis and is the second biggest corn producer.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/corn-production-by-state

Illinois = Chicago + Corn

[Wigs]

Steely, do you think it's likely for Ohio to overtake Illinois in our lifetime?

I've always thought Ohio really benefitted from the 3 large (by Canadian standards) 'C' Metros, and other decent sized Metros (Dayton, Akron, Toledo) unlike the Chicagoland setup of Illinois where one giant Metro has to carry the entire State.

[Docere]

The population of Ohio needs to stop declining first:

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/11/0...n-the-greater-columbus-area-study-shows/