The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

This makes the most sense to me.

It’s not going to be huge volumes of anything in the big picture, so most likely just trucking instead of millions needed in rail infrastructure.

[NewIreland]

...

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Rail connection is a ways away, 11 Km if you parallel Route 111 and try to connect through Rothesay. Or a spur somewhere south of Latimore Lake Rd. Still, it has a good trucking connection.

I'm of the opinion we should wait and see what those big tenders are actually for.

I’d assume it would be mostly trucking anyway for air freight (like the aforementioned seafood for example), I meant more in the big picture of what networks the city has access to.

Thinking of rail though, there were old plans afoot back in the Energy Hub days of running the rail line south from Norton/Hampton area to bypass KV entirely, partially because of post-Lac Megantic fears of having so much petroleum going through some of the wealthiest residential areas in the Maritimes, and partially because it would speed up movement of freight to the Port and a potential second refinery. The plans I was engaged with envisioned a reclaimed rail line along the Kennebecasis River, turning it into an active transportation network like in Fredericton. My point being it would have come around the Loch Lomond watershed and come a lot closer to the airport and down the East side of the Mispec River than it does now.

I’d like to dream those plans aren’t completely dead, but I guess that was 10 years ago now.

[cdnguys]

At minute 18:20 of common council meeting, Coun. Barry Ogden is talking about a conversation he had with a developer who may start this winter to develop 3 “major projects on 3 pieces of land people will be very pleased will get developed. Will get developed One Two Three in that area”. Any speculation what projects he’s talking about ? I initially thought Eric DeJong developing the two schools and apartment buildings by XTR on Loch Lomand, but he said “in that area”.

[cdnguys]

- envision SJ - housing bottleneck to growth. Not enough housing to support the amount of people wanting to come here

- Envision SJ - “we are handholding a number of key developments for region, cautiously optimistic over the next little while will move across the line”

- 120-170 students from France will start at Don Bosco first year. Teachers are hired and immigrating to SJ

[DyAm00394]

Posted it over on the airport thread, but will share it here too.

A new CBC article appeared about the renderings and they interviewed the airport CEO. To summarize, they have some interest already, but nothing in writing yet. The plan is to lease the lands to 3rd party developers that will be doing the developing. They've talk with some folks about everything from a gas station, to a grocery store, to quick service restaurants. He said the envisioned hotel would serve the community as well as passengers, and the initial focus is on 2 parcels of land on Loch Lomond Road.

The airport even commissioned a study of the "viability of a hotel and the preliminary study came back very positive."

And given the expansion of Saint John's port and rail businesses, Ross said the airport authority "could envision a future where the Saint John Airport could be a logistics and business hub."

He said the long-term goal would be to develop the land deeper into airport territory "as a sort of an industrial park or a commercial park" that could include air-related services, manufacturing and light-industrial ventures.

Those developments could eventually help lead to an extension of the runway, said Ross. He said there's enough property to allow for a runway of up to 3,000 metres, but development would depend on having "a very robust long-distance cargo business — that does not exist at the moment."

A commercial real estate agent with Colliers said the advertisement online went live last week and that they've been "working in the background" before the launch and already "have some interested parties at the moment that we have been working with."

Although there are some letters of intent, there's nothing yet in writing, she said.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-airport-seeks-developers-1.7041258

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Posted it over on the airport thread, but will share it here too.

A new CBC article appeared about the renderings and they interviewed the airport CEO. To summarize, they have some interest already, but nothing in writing yet. The plan is to lease the lands to 3rd party developers that will be doing the developing. They've talk with some folks about everything from a gas station, to a grocery store, to quick service restaurants. He said the envisioned hotel would serve the community as well as passengers, and the initial focus is on 2 parcels of land on Loch Lomond Road.

The airport even commissioned a study of the "viability of a hotel and the preliminary study came back very positive."

And given the expansion of Saint John's port and rail businesses, Ross said the airport authority "could envision a future where the Saint John Airport could be a logistics and business hub."

He said the long-term goal would be to develop the land deeper into airport territory "as a sort of an industrial park or a commercial park" that could include air-related services, manufacturing and light-industrial ventures.

Those developments could eventually help lead to an extension of the runway, said Ross. He said there's enough property to allow for a runway of up to 3,000 metres, but development would depend on having "a very robust long-distance cargo business — that does not exist at the moment."

A commercial real estate agent with Colliers said the advertisement online went live last week and that they've been "working in the background" before the launch and already "have some interested parties at the moment that we have been working with."

Although there are some letters of intent, there's nothing yet in writing, she said.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-airport-seeks-developers-1.7041258

Strikes me as very much as an aspirational, "Gee, wouldn't it be great if we could............" type of a plan. Still, it's very encouraging to see some outside the box thinking. Who knows, parts of it might actually come to pass.

The CEO's comment about the runway extension adds to my feeling there is nothing planned or in the pipeline. Sounds like the runway lengthening and Air Cargo are a chicken and egg situation.

[DyAm00394]

Project card for the new development coming to 1440 Loch Lomond Road was published on CCD Canada website yesterday, November 27th, 2023.

"LOCH LOMOND ESTATES - SAINT JOHN, NB
NEW TOWNHOUSES

Starting Date (estimated): N/A
Location: SAINT JOHN (NB)
Size: $2,563,000.00
Stage: 3-Planning or drawing
Published: 2023-11-27
Last Update: 2023-11-27

Work type: New construction
Sector: Private
Category: 4-Residential
Subcategorie: 4B-Residential Development
Disciplines: Architecture, Civil, Electricity, Equipment, HVAC, Building mechanic, Structural, Other

DESCRIPTION:
NEW TOWNHOUSES

Located in Saint John, 1440 Loch Lomond, this project (Loch Lomond Estates) estimated at $2 563 000 is in the planning stage. Works concern the construction of an 18-unit residential project consisting of 4 buildings of townhouses".

[DyAm00394]

Another update:

A new CTV article on the airport has a bit more information:

The new manufacturing facility project listing is actually more of an addition that could be made to an existing tenant's land the CEO confirms, but can't elaborate any further. He hopes to have shovels in the ground next summer, and he again confirms they are in conversations with multiple developers who are interested in building some of the facilities. The short term focus right now is the local services zone and in a distant future is the hotel idea.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/more/saint-john-airport-lists-commercial-properties-for-lease-1.6663074

"The Saint John Airport is taking the next steps in transforming their space to make the Port City terminal a place for travellers to easily reach whatever destination they may be travelling to.

Of its more than 600 acres of ready to be developed land, the airport has put 37 of those acres on the market for commercial lease in its Local Services Zone and Airport Amenities Zone.

“We are in conversation with a number of developers who would be interesting in building some of the facilities we are talking about,” says Saint John Airport CEO Sandy Ross. “Our goal is to get the airport into being fully commercially viable, to being profitable, and to delivering great service to the folks of Saint John.”

In the short-term, Ross is hopeful to see a gas station and quick service food restaurant be built in its Local Services Zone. In the more distant future, the CEO would like to see a hotel added to the site to service the entire community.

He also notes cargo expansions could be possible, noting the current ability the airport has to extend the runway from 7,200ft to 10,000ft.

“The folks at (Port Saint John) have done an outstanding job of making Saint John a logistics hub for North America over the next century,” says Ross. “The quadfecta…really is ocean, road, rail, and air for the opportunity to really see the fulfilment of that logistics vison here in Saint John.”

Ross insists the costs of any new developments would not be passed onto travellers in any way. He is hopeful to see shovels in the ground next summer.

One project appeared to already be on the go. The website ccdcanada.com has a project listed relating to an more than $7 million manufacturing facility to be built in Logistics Park of the property. Ross says this isn’t the case.

“I suspect that represents an addition that could be made to one of our exiting tenant’s properties,” Ross says. “But I can’t say more then that.”

The City of Saint John has been working alongside the airport to help get the land to market. Brian Irving is the acting general manager of the cities industrial parks and says the city will bring their knowledge in developments to help get these projects off the ground.

“The urgency and the timing was never quite right but it is now so it is really exciting as this is not a new idea,” Irving says, claiming this project has been talked about for over 15 years. “Between Sandy and his team and some of the senior leadership around the city we have finally recognized that the time is right.”

Irving says the expansions will help lure flights to the Saint John Airport, limiting the travel for Saint Johners ahead of their vacations.

“I think we failed to realize how important a strong airport is in your community,” Irving admits. “I think we share the same sentiments about the time it takes to drive to Moncton or Halifax if you are trying to get some options so it would be nice for Saint John to have some enhanced options in the future.”

The airport says no decisions will be made on any future developments with a public consultation meeting with residents".

[cdnguys]

Genesys left their office building on Smythe Street as lease was up and 1/2 of their staff work at home. They are currently looking for a smaller space. That would make a really nice Service Canada location instead of the metal box they are in now. Or maybe Don Bosco school would grab that space ??

[adamuptownsj]

Saint John to fund one roundabout, per CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...il-operating-budget-roundabout-1.7042710

Here's the list, as a refresher:

Ashburn Road / Rothesay Road
Manawagonish Road / Gault Road
Sandy Point Road / Foster Thurston Drive
Millidge Avenue / Somerset Street
Simms Corner
Loch Lomond/Route 111 (NEW)

It won't be Simm's Corner- especially with an eventual second rail line coming. Somerset/Millidge and Gault/Manawagonish seem functional in their current forms. Sandy Point/Foster Thurston seems a little quiet to bother with.

I would put money on it being Ashburn/Rothesay or the newly proposed Loch Lomond/111. Ashburn/Rothesay can be a genuine mess traffic-wise and this would pair well with the improved lights and alignment installed a few years ago. Plus, the city said it will choose a place where the road is in bad shape anyway and IIRC this would fit the bill. However, they wouldn't have added Loch Lomond/111 to the list if they weren't seriously considering it, and that intersection can be very weird to pass through at peak traffic.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Saint John to fund one roundabout, per CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...il-operating-budget-roundabout-1.7042710

Here's the list, as a refresher:

Ashburn Road / Rothesay Road
Manawagonish Road / Gault Road
Sandy Point Road / Foster Thurston Drive
Millidge Avenue / Somerset Street
Simms Corner
Loch Lomond/Route 111 (NEW)

It won't be Simm's Corner- especially with an eventual second rail line coming. Somerset/Millidge and Gault/Manawagonish seem functional in their current forms. Sandy Point/Foster Thurston seems a little quiet to bother with.

I would put money on it being Ashburn/Rothesay or the newly proposed Loch Lomond/111. Ashburn/Rothesay can be a genuine mess traffic-wise and this would pair well with the improved lights and alignment installed a few years ago. Plus, the city said it will choose a place where the road is in bad shape anyway and IIRC this would fit the bill. However, they wouldn't have added Loch Lomond/111 to the list if they weren't seriously considering it, and that intersection can be very weird to pass through at peak traffic.

Agree about Somerset/Millidge Ave seems to work fine as is.
Foster Thurston can be very busy before/after hospital shift changes and with KV traffic to/from UNB. It's dangerous because of blind curve at the T. Cars come from out of sight very quickly.

Rothesay Road can be a real problem at rush hour trying to turn left from Ashburn towards the KV. Same traffic that makes Sandy PT/Foster Thurston an issue..

Don't use the others enough to comment although I've never had an issue going to/from the airport.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agree about Somerset/Millidge Ave seems to work fine as is.
Foster Thurston can be very busy before/after hospital shift changes and with KV traffic to/from UNB. It's dangerous because of blind curve at the T. Cars come from out of sight very quickly.

Rothesay Road can be a real problem at rush hour trying to turn left from Ashburn towards the KV. Same traffic that makes Sandy PT/Foster Thurston an issue..

Don't use the others enough to comment although I've never had an issue going to/from the airport.

Less airport issues for me- I intermittently have rush hour travel out that way. Conversely I had no idea Sandy Point/Foster Thurston was too bad. I'm only out there after 6 or on the weekend to access the Owen Lake area trails. Makes sense though.

My gut says it's Ashburn/Rothesay. Area has already seen needed upgrades, important arterial, road is in a degraded state, and so on. Would also fit with a future, scaled-back (from the East Point demands) Ashburn to Ashburn Lake overpass, and a redesigned/normalized set of ramps.

Then again it's Saint John so they might just want to screw with Somerset and Millidge for eight months for no urgent reason.

[cdnguys]

There is a thread of Retail NB about a digital health and technology centre. Is this the Health and Social Innovation Centre previously announced being built where ward chipman library was, or this is a completely different build ?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Less airport issues for me- I intermittently have rush hour travel out that way. Conversely I had no idea Sandy Point/Foster Thurston was too bad. I'm only out there after 6 or on the weekend to access the Owen Lake area trails. Makes sense though.

My gut says it's Ashburn/Rothesay. Area has already seen needed upgrades, important arterial, road is in a degraded state, and so on. Would also fit with a future, scaled-back (from the East Point demands) Ashburn to Ashburn Lake overpass, and a redesigned/normalized set of ramps.

Then again it's Saint John so they might just want to screw with Somerset and Millidge for eight months for no urgent reason.

All good points. The Ashburn/Rothesay Road seems logical......probably the kiss of death when it comes to city decision making.

One other benefit would be that raising that intersection by as little as a foot or two would help fix flooding issues there.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There is a thread of Retail NB about a digital health and technology centre. Is this the Health and Social Innovation Centre previously announced being built where ward chipman library was, or this is a completely different build ?

It's different. The Health and Social Innovation Centre it's complementary to the upcoming Health & Technology District. It's considered the starting point. They are basing the SJ one off of their other Health & Technology District in Surrey, BC. More Info:https://healthandtechnologydistrictsaintjohn.com/

"PHASE 1 is projected to attract up to 50 new businesses, create an estimated 1,000 new jobs and bring $50 million to the Saint John regional economy annually.

PHASE 2 AND 3 will bring further private sector investment of about $70 million to Saint John, providing exceptional space for additional new businesses, creating more than 2500 jobs and adding another $100 million to the economy annually.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There is a thread of Retail NB about a digital health and technology centre. Is this the Health and Social Innovation Centre previously announced being built where ward chipman library was, or this is a completely different build ?

It's a different building and initiative. The Lark Group is leading the Health and Technology District with ONB and others, while UNB is building the Health and Social Innovation Centre as we speak. The new rendering for the Health and Tech phase one building is this:

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

It's a different building and initiative. The Lark Group is leading the Health and Technology District with ONB and others, while UNB is building the Health and Social Innovation Centre as we speak. The new rendering for the Health and Tech phase one building is this:

When will this start construction?

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

When will this start construction?

Everything coming out about the Health and Technology District is incredibly vague still, it's hard to know how much of it is ever going to happen.

[adamuptownsj]

I'm a little unclear on the whole thing-- the UNB-led Health and Social Innovation Centre building is underway, but is it technically part of Phase 1, or is it not really? And, is this second, theoretical Digital Health and Technology building still part of Phase 1 or is it the beginning of Phase 2? I thought the whole project was an ONB-Lark-UNBSJ partnership. It's all being built between the Regional and campus, right?

Very unclear. Seems to have legs but I'd like to know exactly what's it supposed to consist of. Is each phase a building?