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  #281  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:06 PM
vanatox vanatox is offline
 
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I have taken the bus to NY maybe two times (a long time ago). I have never taken a plane or a train to travel to NY, Boston or Toronto. I have always used my car. I have been to these 3 cities many times. Most Quebecers would also travel by car to go to these cities since it is so much cheaper and convenient.
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  #282  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:11 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by vanatox View Post
I took the bus to NY maybe two times when I was younger. I have never taken a plane or a train to travel to NY, Boston or Toronto. I have always used my car. I have been to these 3 cities many times. Most Quebecers would also travel by car to go to these cities since it is so much cheaper and convenient.
Wow. The whole province is showing up to excuse actual statistics.

Sure. Lots of people drive there. But again, if the demand is there, flights, trains and buses will be there too. Or is travel to the US, exclusively reserved for Québecers who own cars and y'all send those too infirm to drive or too broke to afford a car to Toronto to slum it out on the TTC?

To be noted, I am not suggesting that Boston and New York are not more attractive destinations. But I find it bizarre the level of denialism going on about the fact there's a ton of seats offered between the GTA and Montreal. Also this weird idea that apparently Québecers never drive to Toronto so buses, trains and airplanes are not indicative of demand. But somehow because they always drive to Boston and New York, this also means the buses, trains and airplanes are not indicative of demand.
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  #283  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:13 PM
vanatox vanatox is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Wow. The whole province is showing up to excuse actual statistics.

Sure. Lots of people drive there. But again, if the demand is there, flights, trains and buses will be there too. Or is travel to the US, exclusively reserved for Québecers who own cars and y'all send those too infirm to drive it broke to afford a car to Toronto to slum it out on the TTC?
Man, you need to chill. You look ridiculous.
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  #284  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:13 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
What's actually more surprising to me, is that Ottawa and Montreal aren't more integrated and growing into each other, like say Baltimore and DC.
There's an obvious reason for that. It starts with an L and ends with a E. For the same reason Liège and Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) are not very integrated. Ditto Lille and Courtrai.
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  #285  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:21 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by vanatox View Post
Man, you need to chill. You look ridiculous.
Nah. Y'all need to take your thread hijacking with random fact denial and illogical dislike of Toronto to your own thread.

I wasn't the one that started out with the bizarre idea that airlines are burning the gas to fly 35 flights each way for embarrassed Montrealers to all claim they were on business in Toronto.
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  #286  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:24 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
 
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Man, you need to chill. You look ridiculous.
He's a bit aggressive, isn't he?

Regarding cars vs airplane, if trips to Toronto are more likely to be business trips, and trips to Boston/NYC are more likely to be holidays/leisure trips, then I think it's not surprising you have more air passengers to Toronto than to NYC/Boston, because business trips are more likely to be done with airplanes (who ever drives for a long-distance business trip?), whereas leisure trips are more likely to be be done with cars, at least within, say, less than 700 km (obviously very few people are going to drive to Florida).
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  #287  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:27 PM
vanatox vanatox is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Nah. Y'all need to take your hijacking with random fact denial and illogical dislike of Toronto to your own thread.

I wasn't the one that started out with the bizarre idea that airlines are burning the gas to fly 35 flights each way for embarrassed Montrealers to all claim they were in business in Toronto.
I don't dislike Toronto...? I said I have been there many times...

You just sound so insecure and immature.
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  #288  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:27 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
He's a bit aggressive, isn't he?
Well yes. Your "begs the question" trolling is getting tiresome. Have you actually looked up flights, trains and buses yet?

Comme d'habitude, un fil de discussion est détourné et tourne autour des préférences personnelles d'un sous-ensemble des gens de Québec, mais apparemment, c'est moi qui suis immature.

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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Regarding cars vs airplane, if trips to Toronto are more likely to be business trips, and trips to Boston/NYC are more likely to be holidays/leisure trip, then I think it's not surprising you have more air passengers to Toronto than to NYC/Boston, because business trips are more likely to be done with airplanes (who ever drives for a long-distance business trip?), whereas leisure trips are more likely to be be done with cars, at least within, say, less than 700 km (obviously very few people are going to drive to Florida).
Yes. It must be all those business people who sit on the train for 5 hrs between Toronto and Montreal. If there's one thing business people love, it's wasting time when traveling.

Last edited by Truenorth00; Nov 9, 2023 at 9:50 PM.
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  #289  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 9:54 PM
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Doady Doady is offline
 
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Cities are strange things in their lives and deaths. They don't live and die like people, where someone is living and eventually is gone. They live and die in the process of morphing into their next form, piece by piece. Sometimes that process of morphing involves unbridled growth where a city pops up from nowhere: a friend related the story of growing up on the edge of 1980s Phoenix, with desert stretching for miles at the end of the street. Now, the suburbs stretch for another 10+ miles, mere years later.

Some are trapped in time and slowly decompose as the forces of economic stagnation make change mostly the inevitable conclusion of nature returning things to the earth. The mill and mining towns of Northern Ontario losing the battle against economics, demographics, nature, and time; trapped in amber economically but not physically.

Cities are products of humanity, but outlive us. Our memories of what a city was are shaped by the era we were there. The skyline of Lower Manhattan still looks wrong in a visceral sense to me, more than 20 years after the towers have been gone. However, pictures of pre-CN Tower Toronto look wrong to me too, but maybe looks right to someone who loved that city before modernity hit. Even London with the Shard looming over St. Paul's seems unsettling, a splinter in the mind's eye. Sometimes it's a sudden tragedy, as the aforementioned Trade Center attests. Sometimes it's a monument that's on a proverbial death row by the forces of economics. The now-disused Superstack in Sudbury - an industrial memoir to the labour, mortgages paid, and food put on the table of families locally - awaits the Grim Reaper.

Cities live and die even in small ways. Sometimes a longstanding business leaves, and with it goes a piece of that city. At least the city you knew. The end of Honest Ed's left a hole in Toronto that no overseas chain or condo development will fill; a city less kitschy, more refined, but somehow less distinctive. Is Toronto better or worse for it?

Why this thread, why now? A local bakery (operating since 1936) is closing to make way for a longstanding pet project of the city: a new arena. Perhaps it's the fond memories of the smell of freshly baked bread on Sunday mornings of my youth that pulls the heartstrings so. Food is the way to the heart, the adage goes. The wistfulness comes from knowing that after the 30th, the bread of my youth will pass into memory. I should buy one last loaf.

I wonder if this new arena will be someone else's same fond memory as the fresh bread is mine.

Post your stories of the lives and deaths of cities and towns in your life.
Life, death, and rebirth. Continual cycle. That's the way it's always been. You can get fresh bread somewhere else.

I really posted a photothread about this very subject, by highlighting the proliferation of international chains on Canada's iconic street. But even if Yonge Street has become sterile and lost its identity, does that mean the rest of Toronto is the same? Nothing new has emerged or is emerging anywhere else in the city?

That is what separates a real city like Toronto from a suburb like Mississauga. In Mississauga, there is no life, no death, and therefore no rebirth. The death gives opportunities to breathe new life to the city. Decline and renewal and demolition and redevelopment is what makes a city and real city. Without death, there can be no life.

That is the #1 problem of suburbia. It's not the cars. It that they are not built in a way that makes them easy to redevelop. They are forever stuck in time. They cannot evolve. Toronto is like an living organism that is continually evolving, growing and changing shape, as a city should be.
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  #290  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 10:22 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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^ Rebirth is very difficult with inflexible zoning. I'm not sure cities with giant yellow belts will do well with that rebirth.
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  #291  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 11:47 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
What's actually more surprising to me, is that Ottawa and Montreal aren't more integrated and growing into each other, like say Baltimore and DC.
Greater Montreal's urban boundary isn't growing quickly like DC is, and it's nowhere near as sprawly. Gatineau could be regarded as the — child of the two cities.
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  #292  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2023, 11:59 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
 
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MonkeyRonin talked about how Vancouver doesn't have the corporate sponsors to put on a Santa Claus parade. But there are homegrown Vancouver corporations. Why doesn't Lululemon (USD 52B market cap) throw a few bucks its way? Why isn't there a Chip Wilson Centre for the Performing Arts?
I would think Vancouver's lack of sponsorship probably has to do with the fact it has less HQs than even Calgary, and in general they're in less profitable industries. Aside from TELUS and Lululemon, it's slim pickings who'd be willing to step up and be a headline sponsor in Vancouver.

With Vancouver's Casperized economy geared so much towards real estate, I'd imagine their title sponsor should be something to the tune of "Polygon-Concord-Westbank-Dominion Lending Centres".
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  #293  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 12:12 AM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Zeej View Post
Plenty of Québecois accents in Toronto during the summer, at least when I lived there a few years ago. It's as if it's recently been discovered, but nonethless, many Québecois and Québecoise around - on the waterfront, in the subway, near the CN tower - the whole deal.
There's quite a few Québecois working in Toronto (I work with a number of them regularly, and they're often the bridge with the Montreal offices), and most of them like to live downtown or around old Toronto. Whereas it's super rare to find a Québecois who's willing to live in the outer-416 and 905..only Anglo-Quebeckers live out in the 905, and many are very bitter about it.
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  #294  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 12:21 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
I would think Vancouver's lack of sponsorship probably has to do with the fact it has less HQs than even Calgary, and in general they're in less profitable industries. Aside from TELUS and Lululemon, it's slim pickings who'd be willing to step up and be a headline sponsor in Vancouver.

With Vancouver's Casperized economy geared so much towards real estate, I'd imagine their title sponsor should be something to the tune of "Polygon-Concord-Westbank-Dominion Lending Centres".
One would think the developers who have collectively made billions in Vancouver's real estate market could say least pitch in enough to keep some basic public attractions going.
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  #295  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 1:07 AM
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harls harls is offline
 
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Greater Montreal's urban boundary isn't growing quickly like DC is, and it's nowhere near as sprawly. Gatineau could be regarded as the bastard child of the two cities.
Ouch, that hurts, man.
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  #296  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 1:08 AM
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casper casper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
I would think Vancouver's lack of sponsorship probably has to do with the fact it has less HQs than even Calgary, and in general they're in less profitable industries. Aside from TELUS and Lululemon, it's slim pickings who'd be willing to step up and be a headline sponsor in Vancouver.

With Vancouver's Casperized economy geared so much towards real estate, I'd imagine their title sponsor should be something to the tune of "Polygon-Concord-Westbank-Dominion Lending Centres".
Since we want to talk about Casperized economy. The major employers with head office type staff in the Metro Vancouver area include Amazon, Best Buy Canada, Microsoft, HSBC Canada, Jim Pattison Group, H Y Louie, VanCity, Finning, Premium Brands, Methanex, Sierra Wireless, Tech Resources, Canfor, etc.

So some are the Canadian operations of multi-nationals while others have their global head office in Vancouver.
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  #297  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 1:09 AM
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Acajack Acajack is offline
 
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Ouch, that hurts, man.
Kernel of truth.
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  #298  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 1:30 AM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
Life, death, and rebirth. Continual cycle. That's the way it's always been. You can get fresh bread somewhere else.

I really posted a photothread about this very subject, by highlighting the proliferation of international chains on Canada's iconic street. But even if Yonge Street has become sterile and lost its identity, does that mean the rest of Toronto is the same? Nothing new has emerged or is emerging anywhere else in the city?

That is what separates a real city like Toronto from a suburb like Mississauga. In Mississauga, there is no life, no death, and therefore no rebirth. The death gives opportunities to breathe new life to the city. Decline and renewal and demolition and redevelopment is what makes a city and real city. Without death, there can be no life.

That is the #1 problem of suburbia. It's not the cars. It that they are not built in a way that makes them easy to redevelop. They are forever stuck in time. They cannot evolve. Toronto is like an living organism that is continually evolving, growing and changing shape, as a city should be.
The worry being that I've seen these things slip away, more so than I've seen them reinvigorated, especially in the place I live. Yes, I get it, life and death and all, but 'new life' always looked a heck of a lot more like Costco than local business springing up.

Whether suburbia was in the sky, or on the ground, it was more suburbia. The loss was just more permanent in some places.

CityPlace. Suburban or not? By a contemporary measure, urban. But there's something intangible and missing. A few blocks north. There's something in the latter that the former doesn't have.

Hence the lament.
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  #299  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 2:00 AM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
Since we want to talk about Casperized economy. The major employers with head office type staff in the Metro Vancouver area include Amazon, Best Buy Canada, Microsoft, HSBC Canada, Jim Pattison Group, H Y Louie, VanCity, Finning, Premium Brands, Methanex, Sierra Wireless, Tech Resources, Canfor, etc.

So some are the Canadian operations of multi-nationals while others have their global head office in Vancouver.
That's a pretty underwhelming list for Canada's Pacific metropolis, especially if we exclude the foreign MNCs. Would it even rank well amongst the smaller American metros located in flyover country?

Also, as Someone123 has alluded to in the past, Vancouver should be a much larger and influential tech hub if residential real estate hadn't cannibalized the local economy, given that it's a stone's throw away from the mega-tech hub of Seattle, and that it's in the same time-zone as Silicon Valley.
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  #300  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2023, 2:01 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
 
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^^ What's missing is mixed use and retail no?

And I agree. This is why I say today's CityPlace is tomorrow's Jamestown. I can't believe they went through all that trouble to build that many condos and didn't plan to put in decent retail at the bottom.

I lived for a year in the Spadina-Fort York area about a decade ago. The giant condos felt as disconnected from the city as my parents' outer 416 home. These places aren't (or weren't at the time) walkable in any real sense. They just seem designed to warehouse workers within walking and transit distance of the core.
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