The Lives and Deaths of Cities

[thewave46]

Cities are strange things in their lives and deaths. They don't live and die like people, where someone is living and eventually is gone. They live and die in the process of morphing into their next form, piece by piece. Sometimes that process of morphing involves unbridled growth where a city pops up from nowhere: a friend related the story of growing up on the edge of 1980s Phoenix, with desert stretching for miles at the end of the street. Now, the suburbs stretch for another 10+ miles, mere years later.

Some are trapped in time and slowly decompose as the forces of economic stagnation make change mostly the inevitable conclusion of nature returning things to the earth. The mill and mining towns of Northern Ontario losing the battle against economics, demographics, nature, and time; trapped in amber economically but not physically.

Cities are products of humanity, but outlive us. Our memories of what a city was are shaped by the era we were there. The skyline of Lower Manhattan still looks wrong in a visceral sense to me, more than 20 years after the towers have been gone. However, pictures of pre-CN Tower Toronto look wrong to me too, but maybe looks right to someone who loved that city before modernity hit. Even London with the Shard looming over St. Paul's seems unsettling, a splinter in the mind's eye. Sometimes it's a sudden tragedy, as the aforementioned Trade Center attests. Sometimes it's a monument that's on a proverbial death row by the forces of economics. The now-disused Superstack in Sudbury - an industrial memoir to the labour, mortgages paid, and food put on the table of families locally - awaits the Grim Reaper.

Cities live and die even in small ways. Sometimes a longstanding business leaves, and with it goes a piece of that city. At least the city you knew. The end of Honest Ed's left a hole in Toronto that no overseas chain or condo development will fill; a city less kitschy, more refined, but somehow less distinctive. Is Toronto better or worse for it?

Why this thread, why now? A local bakery (operating since 1936) is closing to make way for a longstanding pet project of the city: a new arena. Perhaps it's the fond memories of the smell of freshly baked bread on Sunday mornings of my youth that pulls the heartstrings so. Food is the way to the heart, the adage goes. The wistfulness comes from knowing that after the 30th, the bread of my youth will pass into memory. I should buy one last loaf.

I wonder if this new arena will be someone else's same fond memory as the fresh bread is mine.

Post your stories of the lives and deaths of cities and towns in your life.

[lio45]

Looking across the street, they could’ve specialized in donuts!

(I promise I’ll contribute something on topic later, it’s an interesting thread idea)

[ScreamingViking]

And speaking of donuts...

The "birthplace" of Timmies, and me: Hamilton.

Grew up in the mid-1900s, when heavy industry flourished and a nation needed steel and other manufactured things. Started to decline in the 1970s but probably even earlier than that, as it became cheaper to import those "manufactured things." Local leaders seem to have figured the good times would come back, and looked to silver bullet big projects as ways to keep the city rolling.

But economies change, and when they do they are not charitable to the places they leave bereft.

The city seemed to have hit bottom in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Its nemesis 60 km to the northeast has helped it transform into a destination again. The economy is supposedly one of the most diverse in the country now, but that may be as much because of what it lost as due to what it gained.

Things are looking promising again.

The roads are shit. The residential tax base is too high. But Canada's "rustbelt" poster-child is on an upswing.

[Dengler Avenue]

It’s not my own city, but it’s unbelievable that Kirkland Lake in Northeastern Ontario used to have 20K population.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’s not my own city, but it’s unbelievable that Kirkland Lake in Northeastern Ontario used to have 20K population.

Yep KL, Elliot Lake and Kapuskasing all had much larger populations than they do today. And there are some smaller places that had much larger population losses percentage-wise.

Elliot Lake once had 25,000 people but now has around 10,000. Kap once had at least 13,000 people but now only has 8,000.

Living in Timmins, we here have seen so many changes and there really isn't much left from the early days since our area was settled. The city is quite unique but isn't a tourism destination so there isn't a big push or people willing to pay to preserve things and the upkeep isn't very good of what we have.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Cities are strange things in their lives and deaths. They don't live and die like people, where someone is living and eventually is gone. They live and die in the process of morphing into their next form, piece by piece. Sometimes that process of morphing involves unbridled growth where a city pops up from nowhere: a friend related the story of growing up on the edge of 1980s Phoenix, with desert stretching for miles at the end of the street. Now, the suburbs stretch for another 10+ miles, mere years later.

Some are trapped in time and slowly decompose as the forces of economic stagnation make change mostly the inevitable conclusion of nature returning things to the earth. The mill and mining towns of Northern Ontario losing the battle against economics, demographics, nature, and time; trapped in amber economically but not physically.

Cities are products of humanity, but outlive us. Our memories of what a city was are shaped by the era we were there. The skyline of Lower Manhattan still looks wrong in a visceral sense to me, more than 20 years after the towers have been gone. However, pictures of pre-CN Tower Toronto look wrong to me too, but maybe looks right to someone who loved that city before modernity hit. Even London with the Shard looming over St. Paul's seems unsettling, a splinter in the mind's eye. Sometimes it's a sudden tragedy, as the aforementioned Trade Center attests. Sometimes it's a monument that's on a proverbial death row by the forces of economics. The now-disused Superstack in Sudbury - an industrial memoir to the labour, mortgages paid, and food put on the table of families locally - awaits the Grim Reaper.

Cities live and die even in small ways. Sometimes a longstanding business leaves, and with it goes a piece of that city. At least the city you knew. The end of Honest Ed's left a hole in Toronto that no overseas chain or condo development will fill; a city less kitschy, more refined, but somehow less distinctive. Is Toronto better or worse for it?

Why this thread, why now? A local bakery (operating since 1936) is closing to make way for a longstanding pet project of the city: a new arena. Perhaps it's the fond memories of the smell of freshly baked bread on Sunday mornings of my youth that pulls the heartstrings so. Food is the way to the heart, the adage goes. The wistfulness comes from knowing that after the 30th, the bread of my youth will pass into memory. I should buy one last loaf.

I wonder if this new arena will be someone else's same fond memory as the fresh bread is mine.

Post your stories of the lives and deaths of cities and towns in your life.

We've seen several major high-profile restaurants close down in my city in recent weeks, and this has caused me to become a lot more concerned about the future as I sense that many more are teetering on the brink right now. We know a number of places that would normally be packed on Friday and Saturday night that we've witnessed half-empty or less recently.

With the decline of street-level retail that's never coming back as it once was, I saw more experiential stuff like restaurants, bars and cafés as key to their viability, but now it seems like that could be going down the tubes as well due to rising costs.

If we're lucky it's mostly a question of this moment's inflation and the sector will rebound when costs come down, but my fear is that it isn't just that and that a lot of people's habits changed for good during the pandemic.

We're a couple of years out from the pandemic now, and you'd think things would be back to normal now. I don't think they are in most places and while some spots are booming, I'd say your average restaurant, bar or café isn't back to pre-pandemic business, and I am afraid it may never come back like before.

[Bishop2047]

Moncton NB has gone through a version of this "life and death" cycle in dramatic fashion.
Previously very dependent on rail (CNR) and jobs that supported that industry and then we're decimated when these jobs disappeared. Since Moncton had rebounded and is the hub of the maritimes. Transportation, warehouses, and tourism have made for a much more diverse economy. Often Moncton is near the top of the CMA population growth lists (per capita).

Before this 1840s Moncton was crippled by the ship building industry collapsing.

[Bishop2047]

Now for death of a "city", I would like to present Uranium City SK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_City

2500+ people down to 71.

Only accessible by flight and ice roads.

If you ever get the chance to visit, it will feel like your are on the set of the walking dead. It is another case of mining town go boom, but it went bust so fast that many houses still have personal items and photos in them.

U.C's death was more akin to a motorcycle crash than a death by cancer or chronic illness.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We've seen several major high-profile restaurants close down in my city in recent weeks, and this has caused me to become a lot more concerned about the future as I sense that many more are teetering on the brink right now. We know a number of places that would normally be packed on Friday and Saturday night that we've witnessed half-empty or less recently.

With the decline of street-level retail that's never coming back as it once was, I saw more experiential stuff like restaurants, bars and cafés as key to their viability, but now it seems like that could be going down the tubes as well due to rising costs.

If we're lucky it's mostly a question of this moment's inflation and the sector will rebound when costs come down, but my fear is that it isn't just that and that a lot of people's habits changed for good during the pandemic.

We're a couple of years out from the pandemic now, and you'd think things would be back to normal now. I don't think they are in most places and while some spots are booming, I'd say your average restaurant, bar or café isn't back to pre-pandemic business, and I am afraid it may never come back like before.

Restaurants are in a tough spot right now: food costs are soaring, skilled labour is in short supply & costs are rising there, the feds have imposed new taxes on alcohol raising prices there, and many of them had to take on a lot of debt to make it through Covid. Those are all increasing their costs, in an environment where their customers are now faced with an inflationary/COL crisis coupled with an economic downturn; which is forcing people to tighten their wallets and forgo discretionary spending. They're really being squeezed at both sides.

In other words, this is fundamentally an economic issue rather than a cultural one or case of changing habits. I know from my own experience during the late-pandemic & immediate post-pandemic era in Toronto and Vancouver that getting reservations almost anywhere was downright challenging as things rebounded. It certainly seems to have gotten easier more recently though - at least, for the odd time that I do go out now. Eating out at a restaurant has gone from being a weekly occurrence to a monthly one for me now too, and that's not by choice. I just don't have the disposable income anymore to drop on what is becoming an increasingly expensive experience.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Moncton NB has gone through a version of this "life and death" cycle in dramatic fashion.
Previously very dependent on rail (CNR) and jobs that supported that industry and then we're decimated when these jobs disappeared. Since Moncton had rebounded and is the hub of the maritimes. Transportation, warehouses, and tourism have made for a much more diverse economy. Often Moncton is near the top of the CMA population growth lists (per capita).

Before this 1840s Moncton was crippled by the ship building industry collapsing.

Indeed.

Moncton had three death/near death experiences.

1) - 1755: Acadian deportation. townsite abandoned completely for 11 years before being repopulated with Pennsylvania Deutsch settlers.
2) - 1858: Salter Shipyard closes, The town's economy collapses and the civic charter is lost by 1862. The town only regains it's charter 13 years later in 1875 as a result of the growing railroad industry.
3) - 1980s: In short order, the CNR Shops, Eaton's catalogue warehouse and CFB Moncton all close, throwing thousands out of work. By the late 1990s, the "Moncton Miracle" happens, and multisectoral growth begins to occur, which has been accelerating. The CA/CMA has grown from ~100,000 to nearly 180,000 in the intervening 25 years.

Moncton's name should really be "Phoenix."

I would elaborate more, but, it is after midnight, and I am tired. Good night all.

[casper]

There are two towns in BC worth consideration if we are looking at Uranium City in Saskatchewan would be Ocean Falls the second would be Kitsault.

Ocean Falls
-------------

So much potential. Only accessible by boat of sea plane.

BC Ferries ship Northern Sea Wolf calls at Ocean falls once a week to Bela Bella and on its return. I believe it is sometimes also a stop on the Port Hardy to Price Rupert run.

In a slow state of decay. It has a sizable Hydro electric facility left over from when it was logging town. A small population but spectacular views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Falls

Kitsault
--------

Was built as a town for a local mine that only operated for a very short period of time. It was suspended in time with the hope of the mine reopening. Instead someone with more money than he knows what to do with stumbled on it, purchased the town and has maintained it for years. He originally proposed to setup it up a town for scientists, artists etc. More recently as a home for a future LNG terminal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsault

[Architype]

Resource towns can be found all over Canada and the world, they are the quintessential example of boom and bust ghost towns. Wabana, Bell Island NL is a rare example in Canada of an isolated island mining town accessible only by ferry, which had in it's boom period peaking around 1961, a population of 12,281. Today it is a walking dead ghost town of around 2,200. The figures are for the whole island, but it is and was mostly Wabana.

Bell Island's population rose and fell depending on the operation of the Wabana iron ore mining operations. After mining started in 1895, it rose steadily to its peak of 12,281 permanent residents in 1961. (Over the mining years, there were actually hundreds of commuting miners living on the Island six days a weeks, but they were not counted in the Bell Island Census because their permanent residences were scattered around Conception Bay and St. John's and area.) Within a year after the mines closed in June 1966, the population dropped by about 50 per cent from its 1961 high, then by about 20 per cent in each of the last three decades of the 20th Century. Falling another 13 per cent between 2001 and 2011, it was down to fewer than 2,700 people in the 2011 Census. ... In 2022, the population sits at 2,224.

https://www.historic-wabana.com/population-statistics.html


Aerial view of Main Street business district from the 1960s.



The same approximate current view from Google.



Company staff house building and sports field.



https://www.historic-wabana.com/population-statistics.html

[SignalHillHiker]

Some of it is probably just an effect of our own aging. For example, The Zone was our longest-lived gay bar - it was already many years old when I started sneaking it at 16, 17. And it lasted until I was old enough to not really go often anymore. It's foundational to so many of my memories - and even though it was objectively average, I compare everything since unfavorably against it I miss using the bathroom downstairs while the ceiling shook from the dancing above, and you'd get little waterfalls of dust. Missus at coat check who'd sneak a candy into your pockets. The older guys on the couches in the back room who'd cat call ya while you were going for a smoke in the back alley. The DJ who, back then, always had every gay anthem from Europe months before it made it anywhere else in North America. It was a kind of home for years.

Another memory that his me sometimes is the old duck beach at the edge of Quidi Vidi Lake. It was right next to my grandmother's house and it was the first thing we did every time we visited growing up, go to the beach to feed the ducks. Long ago the trail was beefed up and a dam-like structure with a walking trail and benches on top replaced the beach. The ducks moved to another part of the lake. There used to be dozens of people there every day, always a line of cars pulled off the road, with families stopping for a half hour or so to feed ducks with their kids.

One other weird thing that's had an outsized impact for me is that young women here don't predominantly wear high heels anymore. I expect this is a symptom of changes for the better, socially, but it's still a noticeable one to me. I used to be able to tell walking through Pearson which seating area was for St. John's just by the heels. It was the sound of going out downtown throughout my youth, the clicks and shuffles on the hills. It was up there with the saltiness of the air as one of the first things that struck me every time I came home.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Restaurants are in a tough spot right now: food costs are soaring, skilled labour is in short supply & costs are rising there, the feds have imposed new taxes on alcohol raising prices there, and many of them had to take on a lot of debt to make it through Covid. Those are all increasing their costs, in an environment where their customers are now faced with an inflationary/COL crisis coupled with an economic downturn; which is forcing people to tighten their wallets and forgo discretionary spending. They're really being squeezed at both sides.

In other words, this is fundamentally an economic issue rather than a cultural one or case of changing habits. I know from my own experience during the late-pandemic & immediate post-pandemic era in Toronto and Vancouver that getting reservations almost anywhere was downright challenging as things rebounded. It certainly seems to have gotten easier more recently though - at least, for the odd time that I do go out now. Eating out at a restaurant has gone from being a weekly occurrence to a monthly one for me now too, and that's not by choice. I just don't have the disposable income anymore to drop on what is becoming an increasingly expensive experience.

I mourn the loss of well known and iconic local establishments. But also, we are substantially over-retailed in this country. Everything from the square footage dedicated to retail, to our debt levels, to our waistlines speak to this. Sadly though, I get the sense that the majority of the public would rather cut the local icon than lose the Tim's they drive through every morning. I'm the other way. But I suspect I'm in the minority. I suspect the delivery apps also favour quantity over quality and experience.

Some of the places that acajack talks to about were on my list to try. Just never got around to them, before they closed.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Yep KL, Elliot Lake and Kapuskasing all had much larger populations than they do today. And there are some smaller places that had much larger population losses percentage-wise.

Elliot Lake once had 25,000 people but now has around 10,000. Kap once had at least 13,000 people but now only has 8,000.

Living in Timmins, we here have seen so many changes and there really isn't much left from the early days since our area was settled. The city is quite unique but isn't a tourism destination so there isn't a big push or people willing to pay to preserve things and the upkeep isn't very good of what we have.

There are many examples of formerly decent-sized communities up in the Taiga that have withered or are withering away. Such as Schefferville, Quebec, and Uranium City, Saskatchewan.

Schefferville:



Some contemporary examples from Ontario:
North Bay, down 2,089 to 51,553
Sault Ste. Marie, down 1,773 to 73,368
Timmins, down 1,377 to 41,788
Elliot Lake, down 607 to 10,741
Temiskaming Shores, down 480 to 9,920
Kirkland Lake, down 152 to 7,981
Espanola, down 368 to 4,996

[WhipperSnapper]

One company towns ebb and flow with the economic performance of the company and, there's always a proportion of the population that lingers waiting for eventually death once that business has moved on.

Not much of a story here.

unfortunate realities that small towns have more space to provide healthier environments to grow up (not that these spaces are taken advantage of) than dense cities.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Now for death of a "city", I would like to present Uranium City SK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_City

2500+ people down to 71.

Only accessible by flight and ice roads.

If you ever get the chance to visit, it will feel like your are on the set of the walking dead. It is another case of mining town go boom, but it went bust so fast that many houses still have personal items and photos in them.

U.C's death was more akin to a motorcycle crash than a death by cancer or chronic illness.

Fascinating, but I can't help but notice you're giving casper ammo to point out that "there's no housing crisis in Canada, look at all that vacant housing in Saskatchewan right now!"

Speaking of which, I just had a business idea

1) Sell off whatever assets I need to sell, to acquire the entirety of Uranium City.
2) Create "the Northwest Saskatchewan College".
3) Have my new postsecondary institution sell Canadian visas to South Asians by the boatload.
4) Rent all my Uranium City housing to them at high-ish prices.
5) Profit!

[kool maudit]

Damn. Overwrote my post.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I wonder if this new arena will be someone else's same fond memory as the fresh bread is mine.

Extremely possible. Imagine 100 years from now when that obsolete arena gets demolished, some Sudburians of the 22nd century are bound to have very dear, very old stories of lifetime-character-shaping achievements on the ice in their youth.

Arenas are pretty special places, actually. It was a huge deal when the Habs left the Forum. Pretty sure I recall the same for the Boston Garden in the 1990s.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I mourn the loss of well known and iconic local establishments. But also, we are substantially over-retailed in this country. Everything from the square footage dedicated to retail, to our debt levels, to our waistlines speak to this. Sadly though, I get the sense that the majority of the public would rather cut the local icon than lose the Tim's they drive through every morning. I'm the other way. But I suspect I'm in the minority. I suspect the delivery apps also favour quantity over quality and experience.

Some of the places that acajack talks to about were on my list to try. Just never got around to them, before they closed.

Have to wonder if the only dynamic urban streets in our cities in the future won't all be lined with Door Dash and Amazon pick-up counters.