The Lives and Deaths of Cities

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think Toronto's dynamism is rather fake. So much of it built on a giant ponzi scheme of real estate.

Pretty much true of most of Canada these days.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If there's ever a real slowdown in Canada, I think we'll see Toronto hit the skids harder than some other major cities.

it's already started. Toronto used to be called "New York run by the Swiss", now it more like Singapore run by the Italians.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

family meals for four are like $75 for a shitty meal, or $200+ for a decent meal.

Goddammit, everything is so fucking expensive nowadays. Prices change by the month. Even Costco has horrible price creep. And don't get me started on the endemic shrinkflation happening. Shitty times...

Traumatic times for those too young to have experienced significant inflation before. Heck, not pleasant for those of us old enough to remember either.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Maybe we'll finally rein in obesity in Canada thanks to shrinkflation.

I think that people just like saying 'double double' because it sounds cool.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by harls

I think that people just like saying 'double double' because it sounds cool.

Sure. But there's no reason the average "double double" has to be 14 - 20 oz. That is the part that is bad for us.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Sure. But there's no reason the average "double double" has to be 14 - 20 oz. That is the part that is bad for us.

I mostly thought the 'double-double' bit was the problem, less so the volume. A 'triple-triple' was just gross.

That, or just the fact that Tim's is nigh undrinkable without copious sugar and cream.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. I don't get Look's view there. Montreal is the only big city in Canada that I feel is making genuine advances on urbanism that will actual build a city with real character in the long run. But that doesn't lend itself to obsessions like counting skyscraper condos (Toronto's view of urbanism).

I can see what you mean about Montreal but in terms of big cities I would have to say there is another that is making genuine advances in urbanism..........Calgary.

Despite Calgary's dizzying growth rates, the city is actually building relatively few high rises but instead has been concentrating on mid-rise infill which is development on a more human scale. It's building and redesigning public spaces and expanding it's transit but also it's huge bike path network which is now the largest in NA. Calgary is also NA's leader in repurposing office space into housing bringing more people to the Core after hours. Calgary is booming but also blooming at the same time.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

That post aside, the two Canadian cities I post about a lot, Montreal and Toronto, are not at identity junctures that I find very interesting right now. Toronto needs Canada to do or be more than it is to level up, and Montreal increasingly seems to be drifting off into some kind of Vilnius-type status where it's this vague isolate with surprisingly good trams or whatever. I had kind of hoped for "next great American city" and "francophonie-expanding powerhouse"... I don't know. Maybe it really is that and I'm just far away. But I don't think buildings are what's going to do it for those two right now.

Montreal is truly going through something special right now; it’s already a great city and feels confident of that, and pointed comfortably in an exciting direction. I envy much about it.But I also agree with this general sentiment above—for example, there’s not a chance I would move there, especially with young kids. If I were a single person in search of a great city, sure. As a parent, however, I’m not keen on raising kids in a society that often feels at risk of walling itself off from the rest of the world and retreating into a sort of blithe provincialism. There are of course many reasons for this, and it’s an impossible conversation to have between Quebeckers and non-Quebeckers. But it is what it is. I spent a few years in Quebec when I was younger and in many ways these things seem worse now.

To put it more simply: Montreal is our best city, but Quebec’s politics and the large cohort of irremediably nativist types constantly threatening to drag the place down are dealbreakers.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Moncton's name should really be "Phoenix."

That name or title should really go to Miramichi.

Home of the Public Service Pay Centre for the federal government which uses the infamous Phoenix pay system.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We've seen several major high-profile restaurants close down in my city in recent weeks, and this has caused me to become a lot more concerned about the future as I sense that many more are teetering on the brink right now. We know a number of places that would normally be packed on Friday and Saturday night that we've witnessed half-empty or less recently.

With the decline of street-level retail that's never coming back as it once was, I saw more experiential stuff like restaurants, bars and cafés as key to their viability, but now it seems like that could be going down the tubes as well due to rising costs.

If we're lucky it's mostly a question of this moment's inflation and the sector will rebound when costs come down, but my fear is that it isn't just that and that a lot of people's habits changed for good during the pandemic.

We're a couple of years out from the pandemic now, and you'd think things would be back to normal now. I don't think they are in most places and while some spots are booming, I'd say your average restaurant, bar or café isn't back to pre-pandemic business, and I am afraid it may never come back like before.

Which high profile ones have closed?

[hipster duck]

I could be wrong, but I think kool's lament is that cities - and the two great Canadian cities, in particular - don't exude power or creative ferment the way that storied cities did in the past. I don't think his concern is about the cities having good urban design.

You can have excellent urbanism and livability but be a provincial kind of place that nobody other than urbanist youtubers would visit. Conversely, a city could be a chaotic mess with a horrible quality of life but be at the centre of a big cultural moment. Lagos vs. Groningen.

I am scratching my head to think of a major Western city that feels more important and alive in the power/creativity sense now than it did just before the pandemic. In the US, maybe Miami or Nashville? I haven't been to either of them, either before the pandemic or since, and I'm not sure Nashville qualifies as "great".

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

There are many examples of formerly decent-sized communities up in the Taiga that have withered or are withering away. Such as Schefferville, Quebec, and Uranium City, Saskatchewan.



Some contemporary examples from Ontario:
North Bay, down 2,089 to 51,553
Sault Ste. Marie, down 1,773 to 73,368
Timmins, down 1,377 to 41,788
Elliot Lake, down 607 to 10,741
Temiskaming Shores, down 480 to 9,920
Kirkland Lake, down 152 to 7,981
Espanola, down 368 to 4,996

I'm aware of pretty much any current or former mining community in Canada because I have friends who have worked in all of them. Places such as Tumbler Ridge BC, Flin Flon MB, Pickle Lake ON, Matagami QC, Baie Verte NL and more will come into our conversations.

The population drops in Northern Ontario are quite sad. The smaller places are feeling the effects much more. What's interesting is that in the cities there is next to no unemployment and many mines, forestry and related companies are having trouble finding workers. We have seen a huge influx of immigrants just in the last few years which is helping and will hopefully stabilize population. There are new mines and there will likely be some big ones opening within a decade if metal prices don't crash. But like in so many places, a big problem is getting housing built.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This is the one trend I'm actually okay with. I hate North American portion sizes and always thought they were terrible for us. I drink a small coffee from Tim's, which used to be a Medium not that long ago. But people look at me weird now for getting a small. Maybe we'll finally rein in obesity in Canada thanks to shrinkflation.

On the other hand..

There's another trend in grocery called "skimpflation", where they reduce the quality of the ingredients in the product, by adding more artificial flavourings, removing expensive fats for cheap oils, etc. Like ice cream for example. Take a close look at the ice cream section next time you're at the supermarket. You'll notice some of the SKUs are labelled "frozen dessert" or "frozen dairy dessert" instead of "ice cream".. because they no longer have any cream in them. It's now skim milk powder and vegetable oil.

I worry that while "shrinkflation" might make people healthier, "skimpflation" will make people less healthy.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by harls

Kraft Dinner shrunk their boxes from 225 to 200g. Same price.

I think the cheese packets have shrunk even more by proportion.

My stomach can't handle them these days, even in shrunken form. But to lose the orange cheesy goodness that was the one redeeming quality of Krap Dinner? Pshaw!!

If they ever diminish it from the nacho-flavoured Doritos, I'm done with them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Don't really get the sense Australia is much more dynamic than Canada at the moment. They seem to be drenched in the same Anglosphere economic malaise, and essentially running the same set of ponzi schemes.

They are experiencing the same western malaise but seem to be having a less intense existential crisis than we are.

Not saying it was even the right thing to do but no way Canadians would have had the balls to vote down the Voice.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think Toronto's dynamism is rather fake. So much of it built on a giant ponzi scheme of real estate. If there's ever a real slowdown in Canada, I think we'll see Toronto hit the skids harder than some other major cities.

This seems too harsh even for me but deep down I've suspected it for years.

Corporate Canada has invested too much in Toronto for it to fail, in addition to having nowhere else to go, but something like New York in the 70s and 80s could be Toronto's future if it isn't smart and careful.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Which high profile ones have closed?

Brasseurs du Temps
L'Aubergiste
British Hôtel

Also, earlier this year: Les Vilains Garçons.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Montreal is truly going through something special right now; it’s already a great city and feels confident of that, and pointed comfortably in an exciting direction. I envy much about it.But I also agree with this general sentiment above—for example, there’s not a chance I would move there, especially with young kids. If I were a single person in search of a great city, sure. As a parent, however, I’m not keen on raising kids in a society that often feels at risk of walling itself off from the rest of the world and retreating into a sort of blithe provincialism. There are of course many reasons for this, and it’s an impossible conversation to have between Quebeckers and non-Quebeckers. But it is what it is. I spent a few years in Quebec when I was younger and in many ways these things seem worse now.

To put it more simply: Montreal is our best city, but Quebec’s politics and the large cohort of irremediably nativist types constantly threatening to drag the place down are dealbreakers.

And yet if Montréal wasn't in Québec it wouldn't be what it is. It would be more like... Toronto.

Frustrating, innit?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Acajack's observations are at once surprising and not. On my last trip to Ottawa-Gatineau I noticed the urban areas felt a little moribund. Vancouver was the same way when I was there last year. Even the urban parts of Toronto felt a little sapped of energy compared to before the pandemic.

But Montreal feels like it's thriving. Mont-Royal Avenue feels busier than ever. I walk down my neighbourhood main streets like Beaubien and St-Hubert and they're absolutely bustling and new businesses are opening. People here don't seem to stay at home as much as in other cities. So what gives?

Montreal is doing quite well but there are still some key streets like St-Denis that are struggling badly. It's also a bit of fragile renaissance I sense, though hopefully it stays on the right track.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This is the one trend I'm actually okay with. I hate North American portion sizes and always thought they were terrible for us. I drink a small coffee from Tim's, which used to be a Medium not that long ago. But people look at me weird now for getting a small. Maybe we'll finally rein in obesity in Canada thanks to shrinkflation.

The interesting thing is that originally Tim's only had two sizes. The 8oz was the small and 10oz was large. So today's small is what was once large.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Montreal is truly going through something special right now; it’s already a great city and feels confident of that, and pointed comfortably in an exciting direction. I envy much about it.But I also agree with this general sentiment above—for example, there’s not a chance I would move there, especially with young kids. If I were a single person in search of a great city, sure. As a parent, however, I’m not keen on raising kids in a society that often feels at risk of walling itself off from the rest of the world and retreating into a sort of blithe provincialism. There are of course many reasons for this, and it’s an impossible conversation to have between Quebeckers and non-Quebeckers. But it is what it is. I spent a few years in Quebec when I was younger and in many ways these things seem worse now.

To put it more simply: Montreal is our best city, but Quebec’s politics and the large cohort of irremediably nativist types constantly threatening to drag the place down are dealbreakers.

My friends who live there tell me how wonderful of a place it is to raise children. I've visit Montreal quite often and don't see how the city represents the whole province's political climate. Some of it sure but most people in the city are quite open to the outside world.