The Lives and Deaths of Cities

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Damn. Overwrote my post.

What does that mean?

Is that when you write a long post, and then accidentally do a select all, and then somehow it all gets deleted?

Then you hope that it's all still on the clipboard and you can paste it in, but it never is?

[ssiguy]

thewave46..........excellent idea for a thread and a great post.

Are we seeing the death of our cities? No, but we are seeing the decay of them economically and especially socially.

What are cities? Why have they always been magnets for the populace? Cities have always been places of commerce, free thinking, acceptance, academic and political centres, cultural vitality, the arts, a place for the young to go to find their fortunes and self-discovery. They are losing these qualities and becoming larger but more sterile at the same time. Due to our modern technology and ANTI-social media which allows one to communicate with everyone and talk to no one, our cities are losing the vitality and creativity which made them such a draw in the first place.

Now commerce is done on-line, the interesting shops and restaurants are dying because you can have everything delivered avoiding that pesky inconvenience of actually having to interact with someone. Cafes which once were a great place to start a new conversation with someone you have never met are now just places individuals go to drink coffee and ruin their necks while blissfully avoiding everyone else. Movie theatres & the arts are now things that can be done at home via Netflix or Cable and nightlife's have virtually disappeared.

Great exchange of ideas and thought are now just OMGs to your BFF and universities have long since vacated their arena of thought expression where saying anything even remotely controversial gets you labeled every name in the book. In terms of the arts and social sciences programs you might as well do it on-line.

In short, cities have lost their raison-d'etre and offer little of what they use to in the personal and social realms and, especially for our expensive cities, all that cities offer are long commutes and a poor standard of living. Cities have become a draw of diminishing returns and no more so than for our young people.

[harls]

When St. Hubert for three costs $70..

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

In short, cities have lost their raison-d'etre and offer little of what they use to in the personal and social realms and, especially for our expensive cities, all that cities offer are long commutes and a poor standard of living. Cities have become a draw of diminishing returns and no more so than for our young people.

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What does that mean?

Is that when you write a long post, and then accidentally do a select all, and then somehow it all gets deleted?

Then you hope that it's all still on the clipboard and you can paste it in, but it never is?

I tried to quote a section to follow up on it, but was actually in the edit post window instead and somehow lost it all. Meanderings on Montreal. You know, I'd probably still be a pretty active poster if I had lived in a city I could be bothered to try figuring out in the past 10 years. Which is not to say CPH and Stockholm aren't nice, but...

[kool maudit]

That post aside, the two Canadian cities I post about a lot, Montreal and Toronto, are not at identity junctures that I find very interesting right now. Toronto needs Canada to do or be more than it is to level up, and Montreal increasingly seems to be drifting off into some kind of Vilnius-type status where it's this vague isolate with surprisingly good trams or whatever. I had kind of hoped for "next great American city" and "francophonie-expanding powerhouse"... I don't know. Maybe it really is that and I'm just far away. But I don't think buildings are what's going to do it for those two right now.

[kool maudit]

Australia seems more dynamic than Canada right now. The US is messy but it's also eating everyone's lunch in many senses. England is dreary and declining. I honestly don't know what the cities are right now, so many perceptions are becoming out of date.

San Francisco, DC and New York are places where you can move needles. Europe is uninspiring and defensive but there's always a bit of weight due to history. I can't imagine thinking of Canada out of the blue right now, like if I wasn't Canadian myself.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Australia seems more dynamic than Canada right now. The US is messy but it's also eating everyone's lunch in many senses. England is dreary and declining. I honestly don't know what the cities are right now, so many perceptions are becoming out of date.

Don't really get the sense Australia is much more dynamic than Canada at the moment. They seem to be drenched in the same Anglosphere economic malaise, and essentially running the same set of ponzi schemes.

[kool maudit]

Maybe. I think they are militarily ahead of us and are in an interesting region, though.

[Kilgore Trout]

Acajack's observations are at once surprising and not. On my last trip to Ottawa-Gatineau I noticed the urban areas felt a little moribund. Vancouver was the same way when I was there last year. Even the urban parts of Toronto felt a little sapped of energy compared to before the pandemic.

But Montreal feels like it's thriving. Mont-Royal Avenue feels busier than ever. I walk down my neighbourhood main streets like Beaubien and St-Hubert and they're absolutely bustling and new businesses are opening. People here don't seem to stay at home as much as in other cities. So what gives?

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

That post aside, the two Canadian cities I post about a lot, Montreal and Toronto, are not at identity junctures that I find very interesting right now. Toronto needs Canada to do or be more than it is to level up, and Montreal increasingly seems to be drifting off into some kind of Vilnius-type status where it's this vague isolate with surprisingly good trams or whatever. I had kind of hoped for "next great American city" and "francophonie-expanding powerhouse"... I don't know. Maybe it really is that and I'm just far away. But I don't think buildings are what's going to do it for those two right now.

I think you're spot on about Toronto, it's a city with so much potential, like it could explode into a global powerhouse at any moment, but Canada's inherent mediocrity is holding it back. But I'm not sure I agree with your perception of Montreal at the moment. It's growing quickly, there's something happening here that is totally different than in the 20 years that I've known it. It's lost a lot of that 90s/early 2000s edge that made it interesting on a creative level but it doesn't feel stagnant.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Acajack's observations are at once surprising and not. On my last trip to Ottawa-Gatineau I noticed the urban areas felt a little moribund.

Ottawa's always been that way. But honestly, it's a lot better today. Maybe because I left in 2012 and came back in 2019, I got better perspective on the change. Ottawa feels a little bit more urban now. That said, the nature of the city and the folks who live here is very suburban. I can it "Mississauga on the the Rideau."

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

But Montreal feels like it's thriving. Mont-Royal Avenue feels busier than ever. I walk down my neighbourhood main streets like Beaubien and St-Hubert and they're absolutely bustling and new businesses are opening. People here don't seem to stay at home as much as in other cities. So what gives?

Yeah. I don't get Look's view there. Montreal is the only big city in Canada that I feel is making genuine advances on urbanism that will actual build a city with real character in the long run. But that doesn't lend itself to obsessions like counting skyscraper condos (Toronto's view of urbanism).

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by harls

When St. Hubert for three costs $70..

family meals for four are like $75 for a shitty meal, or $200+ for a decent meal.

Goddammit, everything is so fucking expensive nowadays. Prices change by the month. Even Costco has horrible price creep. And don't get me started on the endemic shrinkflation happening. Shitty times...

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Acajack's observations are at once surprising and not. On my last trip to Ottawa-Gatineau I noticed the urban areas felt a little moribund. Vancouver was the same way when I was there last year. Even the urban parts of Toronto felt a little sapped of energy compared to before the pandemic.

But Montreal feels like it's thriving. Mont-Royal Avenue feels busier than ever. I walk down my neighbourhood main streets like Beaubien and St-Hubert and they're absolutely bustling and new businesses are opening. People here don't seem to stay at home as much as in other cities. So what gives?

Agreed. Montreal is WAY more vibrant, over a MUCH larger urban expanse, than it was in the late nineties when I moved back there after time living in BC. Every second storefront was "A Louer". Outside of the inner core, the city was crumbling.

[harls]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

family meals for four are like $75 for a shitty meal, or $200+ for a decent meal.

Goddammit, everything is so fucking expensive nowadays. Prices change by the month. Even Costco has horrible price creep. And don't get me started on the endemic shrinkflation happening. Shitty times...

Kraft Dinner shrunk their boxes from 225 to 200g. Same price.

Can't wait for a cm cube size.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I can't imagine thinking of Canada out of the blue right now, like if I wasn't Canadian myself.

This is part of what I'm alluding to, I think. Another story of Canada going down the more generic road, not always to its credit. Montreal and Toronto are greater than ever in a certain sense. They're much more prosperous than before, but somehow less distinctive from the North American patina.

Another tidbit from a life lived before as perhaps an analogy: A fairly dingy watering hole I used to frequent would accept Canadian Tire money at par for drinks (Pro tip: count out giant wad of 5/10/25 cent bills into $3.50 before going up to buy a beer at the bar). Other than being useful as a 'This is the an example of the hick place I grew up in' anecdote, neither thing exists now. The local watering hole now closed, Canadian Tire money mostly exists as 'Triangle Rewards Card' or somesuch. Sure, more efficient in a generic sense (stories from CT clerks catching poorly counterfeited CT Money always were good for a chuckle), but somehow farther away from a distinct Canadian sense of place.

What I am too far off the pulse for is if there's some newfound resurgence for a marker of this country. I'd like to hope so; the unspoken fear may be that there isn't.

[someone123]

"It's too crowded now and the Kolmogorov complexity of an instantiation of this city in Elon Musk's simulation has gone down."

[harls]

Originally Posted by thewave46

A fairly dingy watering hole I used to frequent would accept Canadian Tire money at par for drinks (Pro tip: count out giant wad of 5/10/25 cent bills into $3.50 before going up to buy a beer at the bar).

This sounds like my kind of place.

But then again, I lived 5 miles from the Border Lounge.

In the past year or so, this place has stepped it up. Best kept secret and all.

If anyone knows Circle33, this is where I would bring him.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I think you're spot on about Toronto, it's a city with so much potential, like it could explode into a global powerhouse at any moment, but Canada's inherent mediocrity is holding it back.

I think Toronto's dynamism is rather fake. So much of it built on a giant ponzi scheme of real estate. If there's ever a real slowdown in Canada, I think we'll see Toronto hit the skids harder than some other major cities.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by harls

Kraft Dinner shrunk their boxes from 225 to 200g. Same price.

Can't wait for a cm cube size.

This is the one trend I'm actually okay with. I hate North American portion sizes and always thought they were terrible for us. I drink a small coffee from Tim's, which used to be a Medium not that long ago. But people look at me weird now for getting a small. Maybe we'll finally rein in obesity in Canada thanks to shrinkflation.