Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

How do you figure? Not trying to turn this into a political convo but what the hell has the NDP done for BC that is guaranteed a win? I think we've never been in a worse position, affordability is at an all time low and wasn't that their big promise?

You might feel differently but I believe the BC NDP is currently one of, if not the, most popular governments in Canada right now.

Not only that, but it's becoming increasingly clear that BCU was coasting on the "Liberal" brand and now that they've dropped it their numbers are in the gutter. Once again the BC right wing is splintered, and the greenies don't really seem to have any solid footing either.

The BC NDP will have to screw up a lot to lose this lead.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Between the party run by people who haven't fixed housing and the party run by people who broke it to begin with? My money's on the former. The ex-Libs need to regain ground in Vancouver's suburbs, and so far, they show no sign of doing so.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

It was no where close to being tendered was just early works and a rush job at that because it was made to be another big election spend. only work was done was pre load that was needed regardless and a test pile as there was no plan to build a bridge there prior to the big press release. And as inflation brings costs up the number of drivers on the road does decrease.

This is, yet again, 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. RFQ had selected preferred bidders in 2016, and the RFP bids for the bridge project were submitted in late April 2017.

Was it rushed to try to get it out ahead of the election? Absolutely. But don't claim it wasn't close to being tendered.

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by M00dy

This is, yet again, 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. RFQ had selected preferred bidders in 2016, and the RFP bids for the bridge project were submitted in late April 2017.

Was it rushed to try to get it out ahead of the election? Absolutely. But don't claim it wasn't close to being tendered.

Src: YT

Not to mention that if the 2017 bridge works had continued it would likely have been opened by now...

Check out this video on for the bridge on the @GovernmentofBC YouTube channel, still up today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO5qu9HDJHM

[Tysonbrown]

The only reason the Liberals want a bridge is so massive coal freighters can travel up the river to the future Surrey Coal Port (COAL IS DEAD). Picture all those condo and rental towers covered in coal dust. Breathing it in. Metal studs will attract the dust to the inside of apartments and attach to metal studs through the sheetrock. FACT. I've seen it happen.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

The only reason the Liberals want a bridge is so massive coal freighters can travel up the river to the future Surrey Coal Port (COAL IS DEAD). Picture all those condo and rental towers covered in coal dust. Breathing it in. Metal studs will attract the dust to the inside of apartments and attach to metal studs through the sheetrock. FACT. I've seen it happen.

Coal is certainly not dead. Teck is expanding their coal mining operations in SE BC.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

Metal studs will attract the dust to the inside of apartments and attach to metal studs through the sheetrock. FACT. I've seen it happen.

I'm going to need a lot more than your say-so to believe this. An Internet search for the phrases "metal studs" and "coal dust" turned up exactly zero results.

I have no doubt that coal dust ends up inside apartments, but the HVAC system seems like the logical culprit to me.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

The only reason the Liberals want a bridge is so massive coal freighters can travel up the river to the future Surrey Coal Port (COAL IS DEAD). Picture all those condo and rental towers covered in coal dust. Breathing it in. Metal studs will attract the dust to the inside of apartments and attach to metal studs through the sheetrock. FACT. I've seen it happen.

What on Earth are you talking about? You are right about the ship traffic up the river but that's about it.

[GMasterAres]

Now note I don't care if they build a tunnel or bridge since it doesn't affect me in the least, but that said...

I find it hilarious that there are people out there that still think the goal of the Liberal's bridge-tunnel replacement was to ship more coal or increase ship traffic up the river. This has been debunked more than the flat earth theory and just ignores all senses of reality given they weren't going to remove the old tunnel and there are major water mains that cross near that point that would still prohibit dredging the river any more than they do today.

Not to mention the fact coal is shipped out of Neptune Bulk Terminals (North Vancouver) and Westshore Terminals (Delta Port).

The only resources shipped out of Surrey Fraser docks are wood products, steel, and grain with the new silo expansion.

Second myth is that it would allow them to move bigger ships up the river. Have you checked the size of the ships in Surrey Fraser docks? They aren't mini cargo ships FYI, they are full size ships just like everywhere else. With the river depth all that happens is they cannot be fully loaded since they would sit too low in the river.

So again bridge != bigger ships. This is a classic example of bending and ignore facts to prove one's own narrative in their head.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by GMasterAres

Now note I don't care if they build a tunnel or bridge since it doesn't affect me in the least, but that said...

I find it hilarious that there are people out there that still think the goal of the Liberal's bridge-tunnel replacement was to ship more coal or increase ship traffic up the river. This has been debunked more than the flat earth theory and just ignores all senses of reality given they weren't going to remove the old tunnel and there are major water mains that cross near that point that would still prohibit dredging the river any more than they do today.

Not to mention the fact coal is shipped out of Neptune Bulk Terminals (North Vancouver) and Westshore Terminals (Delta Port).

The only resources shipped out of Surrey Fraser docks are wood products, steel, and grain with the new silo expansion.

Second myth is that it would allow them to move bigger ships up the river. Have you checked the size of the ships in Surrey Fraser docks? They aren't mini cargo ships FYI, they are full size ships just like everywhere else. With the river depth all that happens is they cannot be fully loaded since they would sit too low in the river.

So again bridge != bigger ships. This is a classic example of bending and ignore facts to prove one's own narrative in their head.

The ships that go up the river are smaller ships and the larger of them only can come in on high tide. And there was a proposal to stockpile coal at surrey Fraser docks and barge it to a deep a water port terminal on one of the gulf island. If the new bridge was built it would be designed to allow a larger size vessel. I believe Vancouver can only accept pana max vessels mean while Suez max is the new standard for size

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

The ships that go up the river are smaller ships and the larger of them only can come in on high tide. And there was a proposal to stockpile coal at surrey Fraser docks and barge it to a deep a water port terminal on one of the gulf island. If the new bridge was built it would be designed to allow a larger size vessel. I believe Vancouver can only accept pana max vessels mean while Suez max is the new standard for size

Actually the Fraser doesn't even have Panamax capacity. The draft is too low (11.28m vs 12.04m).

On the other hand Suezmax is "only" typically 160,000DWT while Westshore is capable of handling up to 260,000DWT, so no real concerns there.

Now we might run into some issues if Vale figures they want to bring Valemax ships into the little ol' port of Vancouver...

Regardless, there's not much need or desire to get massive freight carriers up the Fraser. The Port of Vancouver currently has all its chips on RBT2.

[Tysonbrown]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...%20effectively%20killing%20the%20project.
Read it and weep. Local gov'ts AND environmentalists...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Good. “Coal industry growth” and “2023” should be very mutually-exclusive terms.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...%20effectively%20killing%20the%20project.
Read it and weep. Local gov'ts AND environmentalists...

not surprised as it was a poorly laid out proposal. Was living in Queensbough so fell into the required distributions for everything that happens.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Actually the Fraser doesn't even have Panamax capacity. The draft is too low (11.28m vs 12.04m).

On the other hand Suezmax is "only" typically 160,000DWT while Westshore is capable of handling up to 260,000DWT, so no real concerns there.

Now we might run into some issues if Vale figures they want to bring Valemax ships into the little ol' port of Vancouver...

Regardless, there's not much need or desire to get massive freight carriers up the Fraser. The Port of Vancouver currently has all its chips on RBT2.

thanks for the info. Also what is the size that fits under the lionsgate bridge

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Actually the Fraser doesn't even have Panamax capacity. The draft is too low (11.28m vs 12.04m).

On the other hand Suezmax is "only" typically 160,000DWT while Westshore is capable of handling up to 260,000DWT, so no real concerns there.

Now we might run into some issues if Vale figures they want to bring Valemax ships into the little ol' port of Vancouver...

Regardless, there's not much need or desire to get massive freight carriers up the Fraser. The Port of Vancouver currently has all its chips on RBT2.

Seeing as Vancouver is neither a steel making hub, or a iron mining hub, we'll be fine.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Seeing as Vancouver is neither a steel making hub, or a iron mining hub, we'll be fine.

Technically the metallurgical coal exported out of the port makes Vancouver a steel making materials hub. (You need over 10x as much iron ore as coal to make steel though)

[Bobert]

We're always talking about synergies and efficiencies, the bridge would've been the right path. BC MoTI obviously has a familiarity with cable stayed structures, so their home grown expertise would've been valuable. Things like on-going maintenance, their ability to work with and understand what the prime contractor is doing, applying lessons learned from the other bridges, all of this would've been a plus. The tunnel is going to be a bespoke, one off structure

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Bobert

We're always talking about synergies and efficiencies, the bridge would've been the right path. BC MoTI obviously has a familiarity with cable stayed structures, so their home grown expertise would've been valuable. Things like on-going maintenance, their ability to work with and understand what the prime contractor is doing, applying lessons learned from the other bridges, all of this would've been a plus. The tunnel is going to be a bespoke, one off structure

Exactly, not to mention that the nearby Alex Fraser Bridge was built on nearly identical sediment. Along with nearly every other bridge structure connecting LuLu Island.

[Sheba]

Phase 2 is open November 15 to December 15, 2023

After successfully completing the Early Engagement phase of the Environmental Assessment, the project received a positive readiness decision on September 14, 2023, and is now in the process planning phase. This phase includes a public comment period, which provides an opportunity for Indigenous nations, the public, and stakeholders to determine how they want to be engaged and involved in the process.