HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1661  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 6:17 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
This is an absolutely DEVASTATING counterargument to use against anyone who's proposing it as a primary interprovincial connection.

Let us know when you find that person.
Nearly the totality of City Councillors. Even when officials from OC Transpo explained at nauseum that using PoW as the primary connection is a no-go, follow-up questions were constantly "but why ?"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1662  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 7:01 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Nearly the totality of City Councillors. Even when officials from OC Transpo explained at nauseum that using PoW as the primary connection is a no-go, follow-up questions were constantly "but why ?"
Again, I ask: Who is proposing this as the PRIMARY connection, though?
__________________
___
Enjoy my taxes, Orleans (and Kanata?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1663  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 7:51 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SSP Graveyard
Posts: 72,949
The people who propose POW (Commando) as the primary transit corridor between Ottawa and Gatineau are typically those who think Gatineau people should feel lucky that Ottawans even let them into their city.

So probably not really worth listening to.
__________________
Gone... but never forgotten.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1664  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 8:11 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Outaouias
Posts: 2,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
This is an absolutely DEVASTATING counterargument to use against anyone who's proposing it as a primary interprovincial connection.

Let us know when you find that person.
From my experience, when people learn that a tram on Portage bridge means taking away 2 car lanes from them, they often become fans of the Commanda bridge as the ONLY interprovincial link.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1665  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 9:48 PM
Harley613's Avatar
Harley613 Harley613 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Aylmer, QC
Posts: 6,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
From my experience, when people learn that a tram on Portage bridge means taking away 2 car lanes from them, they often become fans of the Commanda bridge as the ONLY interprovincial link.
It would only take away the two bus lanes. That wouldn't affect Gatineau drivers at all...right? It's not like thousands of entitled solo Gatineau drivers clog those lanes during rush hour each and every day with buses stuck in them?
__________________
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.harleydavis/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1666  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2023, 10:52 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Outaouias
Posts: 2,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
It would only take away the two bus lanes. That wouldn't affect Gatineau drivers at all...right? It's not like thousands of entitled solo Gatineau drivers clog those lanes during rush hour each and every day with buses stuck in them?
That never happens. NEVER!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1667  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2024, 10:39 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is online now
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greater Ottawa
Posts: 14,688
King Edward was once Ottawa's Champs-Élysées. Can it be again?
Truck-plagued avenue was once a favourite spot for romantic moonlit walks, and even visiting royalty

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Jan 13, 2024 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: January 13




It was a grand boulevard, alive with the sound of horses' hooves and children's play, a favourite spot for young lovers walking under rows of elm trees buzzing with cicadas.

"It was very romantic and very peaceful and very beautiful," said Doris Momy.

It's hard to believe it today, but that's how she remembers Ottawa's King Edward Avenue.

Her grandmother lived there for 53 years, between Cathcart and Bruyère streets. Momy would take a bologna sandwich and her dolls to picnics, right in the middle of the avenue, on a linear park built over a creek once known as the "Bywash."

King Edward had a "village atmosphere," with family grocers and horse-drawn wagons selling milk, but those stately elm trees added a touch of splendour.

"There was a certain majesty there, because it was founded pretty much on the Champs-Élysées in Paris," Momy said. "I guess that's why royalty chose it."

In 1939, her father snapped a photo of King George VI passing by the family home on his way to Rideau Hall.

But then the Macdonald-Cartier bridge opened in 1965, and everything changed. Men came to widen the road and uproot the trees. They uprooted a community, too.

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ki...%A9lys%C3%A9es-can-it-be-again-1.7078647
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1668  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2024, 11:00 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B]King Edward was once Ottawa's Champs-Élysées. Can it be again?
Truck-plagued avenue was once a favourite spot for romantic moonlit walks, and even visiting royalty
This is easily solvable and Acajak will say I don't want Gatineau allowed in Ottawa but that is not accurate.

Ban trucks from King Edward. Reduce to one lane.

Easy single occupant transport between the two sides is a net negative for Ottawa as we lose tax revenue to people who can buy cheaper houses in Buckinham or Chelsea and get downtown much quicker. Currently the anti-French prejudice keeps that to a minimum as does higher tax rates but the latter is fading as Quebec is managing its finances much better than Ontario.

We control the approaches to the bridges so it's not too complicated.

Relatedly I would agree with a NCC paid transit link across Portage bridge and anywhere else. I think a tram on Wellington adds to the street ambience but I guess I've actually seen modern trams in mixed traffic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1669  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 12:17 AM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 29,131
Build Kettle, ban trucks from King Edward, but I said reduce it to 4 narrower lanes, along with the bridge. Add bike lanes and retore the tree lines median.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1670  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 4:11 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,811
The NCC has its finger prints on every traffic sewer that enters downtown. King Edward is perhaps the worst. As soon as they connected the MacDonald-Cartier Bridge, it was done. We can never restore the lazy King Edward Avenue and its tree line boulevard ever again. We cannot even come close. Despite there being disease resistant elms available now, will anything survive the endless toxic salt spray? It is so sad to see that old photo, but that photo is the only thing we can enjoy during the post-1965 era.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1671  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 4:32 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nepean
Posts: 2,677
My opinion is that the city is designed piecemeal and not built to any cohesive overall plan. And if it does try to make even limited plans, it seems to begin, but fail to carry them through.

The roadway planning in this city is lacking. There are too many major roads that simply become residential streets. The M-C Bridge was planned to connect with the Vanier Parkway, but instead (due to the fuss kicked up) it was simply connected to a residential street, King Edward.

There were a couple of attempts to plan major north-south roadways within the city, but each time, things got started and then abandoned. The Alta Vista Parkway is a great example. The corridor exists, but it hasn’t been built because of local dissent. So people coming from the south need to disburse onto (what were once) residential streets.

There needs to be an organization (and I’m looking at the NCC, and the City of Ottawa) that sits down with a map and charts out proper east-west and north-south transportation corridors. These need to be fairly straight, fast, and efficient at moving large numbers of vehicles – including public transit vehicles – from one area of the city to other areas. They need to have limited access; only at larger collector roads.

Is the city designed like this now? No, not at all. There is the 417/OR174, and the 416, but that is about it. Even Hunt Club was degraded from what it was envisioned as.

Will it be easy? Of course not. It means changing huge swaths of the city. But it can be done over time. The corridors need to be defined and protected. Properties that need to be bought should be bought as soon as practical. They can be leased/rented out until enough properties have been collected to start making changes. And, most of all, the plan needs to be completed – despite negative backlash.

Some (inconvenient) truths about a city:
  • There will ALWAYS be traffic! A switch to zero-emission vehicles still leaves the roads clogged.
  • There will ALWAYS need to be roadway connections within the city, and most of those connections will be outside of a 15-minute radius. People have had freedom to make choices. They are not going to revert to restricting themselves to the limited selection that happens to be nearby.
  • Public transit will NEVER be as fast and convenient as a private vehicle.
Having main routes that get people and goods across a city is imperative. From them, a proper collector network, between neighbourhoods, can handle the traffic. This is how you keep a city moving while keeping huge numbers of vehicles out of residential areas. Restrictions in main transportation corridors simply pushes traffic onto residential streets, making them ‘traffic sewers’.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1672  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 8:35 PM
bartlebooth bartlebooth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
My opinion is that the city is designed piecemeal and not built to any cohesive overall plan...
Your solution to Ottawa’s traffic and mobility issues is to bulldoze a bunch of central neighborhoods so we can build more highways? I’m sorry but this is one of the worst posts I’ve seen on this forum. Possibly ever.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1673  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 9:16 PM
roger1818's Avatar
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Stittsville, ON
Posts: 6,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
Your solution to Ottawa’s traffic and mobility issues is to bulldoze a bunch of central neighborhoods so we can build more highways? I’m sorry but this is one of the worst posts I’ve seen on this forum. Possibly ever.
You think the National chain retailers that line our stroads should be preserved?
__________________
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1674  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2024, 10:48 PM
bartlebooth bartlebooth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
You think the National chain retailers that line our stroads should be preserved?
Of course. I'd actually like every small business in Ottawa to be replaced with a national chain. Ideally every small business in the world but we can start with Ottawa.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1675  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 2:11 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SSP Graveyard
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
This is easily solvable and Acajak will say I don't want Gatineau allowed in Ottawa but that is not accurate.

Ban trucks from King Edward. Reduce to one lane.

Easy single occupant transport between the two sides is a net negative for Ottawa as we lose tax revenue to people who can buy cheaper houses in Buckinham or Chelsea and get downtown much quicker. Currently the anti-French prejudice keeps that to a minimum as does higher tax rates but the latter is fading as Quebec is managing its finances much better than Ontario.

We control the approaches to the bridges so it's not too complicated.

Relatedly I would agree with a NCC paid transit link across Portage bridge and anywhere else. I think a tram on Wellington adds to the street ambience but I guess I've actually seen modern trams in mixed traffic.
Oh I am all for a plan to bring King Edward back to a more human scale and definitely don't think it should be a traffic sewer like it is now due to the capacity mismatch between it and Autoroutes 5 and 50 which feed into it.

But the City of Ottawa probably couldn't ban trucks on it because it is a major interprovincial trade route and this would be challenged and ruled illegal under the Constitution.

That is, you couldn't ban trucks on King Edward unless you provided a suitable alternative route in the general vicinity, which brings Kettle Island or some other new bridge plan back onto the table.

"The City of Ottawa should just ban trucks on King Edward and be done with it!" is something we hear a lot, but it's not grounded in reality.
__________________
Gone... but never forgotten.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1676  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 2:50 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh I am all for a plan to bring King Edward back to a more human scale and definitely don't think it should be a traffic sewer like it is now due to the capacity mismatch between it and Autoroutes 5 and 50 which feed into it.

But the City of Ottawa probably couldn't ban trucks on it because it is a major interprovincial trade route and this would be challenged and ruled illegal under the Constitution.

That is, you couldn't ban trucks on King Edward unless you provided a suitable alternative route in the general vicinity, which brings Kettle Island or some other new bridge plan back onto the table.

"The City of Ottawa should just ban trucks on King Edward and be done with it!" is something we hear a lot, but it's not grounded in reality.
Interesting. That makes sense which surprises me given our constitution. We did ban trucks at night 25 years ago. Not sure what happened to that.

The cross border traffic is getting worse and worse. At some point a lot of through traffic will start to use other routes. I think a lot of Montreal to Gatineau traffic already uses the 50 which will only increase.

There will never be a Kettle Island Bridge. Nobody is spending a billion dollars for something that upsets as many people (or more) as it makes happy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1677  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 3:10 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SSP Graveyard
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Interesting. That makes sense which surprises me given our constitution. We did ban trucks at night 25 years ago. Not sure what happened to that.

The cross border traffic is getting worse and worse. At some point a lot of through traffic will start to use other routes. I think a lot of Montreal to Gatineau traffic already uses the 50 which will only increase.

There will never be a Kettle Island Bridge. Nobody is spending a billion dollars for something that upsets as many people (or more) as it makes happy.
If there is no Kettle Island (or some other new) bridge in the future, then you can expect an appreciable amount of heavy truck traffic on King Edward, basically forever.
__________________
Gone... but never forgotten.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1678  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 4:17 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
Your solution to Ottawa’s traffic and mobility issues is to bulldoze a bunch of central neighborhoods so we can build more highways? I’m sorry but this is one of the worst posts I’ve seen on this forum. Possibly ever.
Nobody wants to bulldoze neighbourhoods. In fact, that has already been done at Lebreton and parts of Lower Town. Too late.

But there is truth to what he says. We plan things and then build only parts of it and then create a mess as we have on King Edward today.

Our city needs a much better plan to move people and goods. We cannot get around this, otherwise, as Richard says, we funnel traffic into inappropriate locations. Then we need more piecemeal plans to correct the previous screw ups.

Ottawa is becoming a big city but we seem to be in denial. The more people, the more traffic and we have to move that traffic efficiently. If we don't have a reasonable plan, then our quality of life will decline, since we can no longer get to where we want to go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1679  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 4:22 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Interesting. That makes sense which surprises me given our constitution. We did ban trucks at night 25 years ago. Not sure what happened to that.

The cross border traffic is getting worse and worse. At some point a lot of through traffic will start to use other routes. I think a lot of Montreal to Gatineau traffic already uses the 50 which will only increase.

There will never be a Kettle Island Bridge. Nobody is spending a billion dollars for something that upsets as many people (or more) as it makes happy.
You have really been sold by the Manor Park Community Association. They are not the majority, not even close. So we pander to the vocal 1% or 2% of the population. I am all for mitigating problems, but just killing a project is never going to solve anything. This is why we can never solve the King Edward problem. How can a growing city ever improve, if we cannot build key transportation infrastructure?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1680  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2024, 5:54 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
You have really been sold by the Manor Park Community Association. They are not the majority, not even close. So we pander to the vocal 1% or 2% of the population. I am all for mitigating problems, but just killing a project is never going to solve anything. This is why we can never solve the King Edward problem. How can a growing city ever improve, if we cannot build key transportation infrastructure?
Well the Kettle Island doesn't solve the truck problem. It helps commuters and essentially only on the Quebec side though it would also make a nice route for eastern Ottawa to Montreal Tremblant etc. The cost is only justified in adding cross border capacity. Nobody is spending that kind of money to reduce the 80 trucks an hour to 50 per hour.

Yes when many will benefit we should absolutely not let NIMBYs block progress but nobody in Ottawa or Ontario thinks there aren't more important things to spend the money on. If NCC pays for all of it I would agree we shouldn't let the Manor Park crew block it though I'd still push back and say they should pay for a rapid transit link across the border instead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:02 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.