London Roads

[jammer139]

Oh its probably on the roadmap for widening that stretch sometime around 2050, long after thousands of new homes are built in the SE corner of the city and industrial parks have added thousands of new jobs. Heck even Dorchester, Belmont, Nilestown will likely have added thousands of more people in new sub divisions to the SE.


Visionary planning is what City Hall is known for.


Don't be shocked that they decide they need to spent millions to repave Hamilton Rd from Hale to Gore at its current width due to roadway damage. But they won't widen it because its not on their transportation master plan to be done.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think they are building this with that eventuality in mind, although I don't know that it is on a calendar yet.

[tyeman200]

Pretty nice indeed, I like the fact London is embracing more roundabouts, it's needed.

I would love to see roundabouts put at the Wonderland/Exeter/Wharncliffe triangle of death. All 3 intersections are just god awful as they are now. One put at Commissioners/Wellington, Southdale/Wharncliffe, Western/Richmond, even Exeter/Wellington should have been rebuilt as a roundabout.

[K85]

"One put at Commissioners/Wellington"

pardon my ... well, how in the fuck would this work!??!

[Djeffery]

I wish they would still do the Western/Richmond realignment that was planned under BRT.

Commissioners and Wellington would be a nightmare with a roundabout, you'd never have a break in traffic to get in. I'm surprised they aren't looking at an elevated BRT through that intersection. Cambridge loves their roundabouts and they are still smart enough to not put them on Hespeler Rd south of the 401 (their Wellington Rd).

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by K85

"One put at Commissioners/Wellington"

pardon my ... well, how in the fuck would this work!??!

I think they need an overpass at Commissioner's and Wellington.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by K85

"One put at Commissioners/Wellington"

pardon my ... well, how in the fuck would this work!??!

Like in Kitchener. They have some large roundabout intersections, like on Homer Watson Blvd. I would assume it would end up like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4268653,-80.4822627,190m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

[K85]

I still feel it's a dumb idea. Sorry.


HWB and OS have the following traffic voumns daily

30,391 HOMER WATSON BLVD (Regional Road 28) BTWN Hanson & OTTAWA

CR and WR have this, from 10 year ago no less

Nearly 75,000 thousand vehicles pass through Wellington and Commissioners daily.

https://lfpress.com/2013/02/19/wellington-commissioners-most-crash-prone-intersection-in-london

https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/doing-business/resources/ANNUAL-AADT-Summary.pdf

[haljackey]

Ya Wellington and Commissioners should remain an intersection.

Have any renders for the BRT project been shown for this intersection? I would assume Wellington will go down from 3 through lanes each way to 2, along with a bus lane. Would the double left on Commissioners be kept? You could also shoehorn a double left for Commissioners EB too perhaps if you're spending the money to rebuild the intersection.

[inimrepus]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Have any renders for the BRT project been shown for this intersection?

This is the only one I am aware of, but it is old

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by K85

I still feel it's a dumb idea. Sorry.

Why is it a dumb idea? The whole point of roundabouts is to help the flow of traffic far better. A roundabout does better there than having 3 different light signals that take forever, and you wait forever. Plus there is ample space there to do it.

London needs more roundabouts to help the city flow better, especially if London doesn't want to build an expressway or what not like every other city in Ontario has. Surface streets is the best London has. It's sad to me when even places like Brantford have an expressway.

[K85]

Traffic volumes like I pointed out, for one?

Take then into account how long it takes people to get used to, and successfully *IE not scaring the shit out of other people* used the two lane ones, I'd assume that intersection has way more than double the volumes would require a 3, or maybe 4 lane one? At what fucking point does this not cannibalize the entire area for usefulness

Anyways, made my point. It's a dumb idea.

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Why is it a dumb idea? The whole point of roundabouts is to help the flow of traffic far better. A roundabout does better there than having 3 different light signals that take forever, and you wait forever. Plus there is ample space there to do it.

London needs more roundabouts to help the city flow better, especially if London doesn't want to build an expressway or what not like every other city in Ontario has. Surface streets is the best London has. It's sad to me when even places like Brantford have an expressway.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

London needs more roundabouts to help the city flow better, especially if London doesn't want to build an expressway or what not like every other city in Ontario has. Surface streets is the best London has. It's sad to me when even places like Brantford have an expressway.

Roundabouts are useful in some, but not all circumstances. They can be useful in many situations, but are not a universal solution to all traffic issues.

Only a very small number of Ontario municipalities have themselves built and operated freeways, so to say that London doesn't want to build an expressway is a bit misleading.

[jammer139]

There is a lot of research and science that goes into optimal roundabout usage and design. Simply put roundabouts work well where the conditions are best met. Not all intersections meet those conditions and have the right combination of variables.


see attached report from Hamilton for the analysis of one of their projects.


http://conf.tac-atc.ca/english/resourcecentre/readingroom/conference/conf2003/pdfs/lenters1.pdf

[jammer139]

Traffic lights finally getting installed at dangerous intersection in OEV.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/old-east-village-intersection-collisions-1.7005036

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Snark

Roundabouts are useful in some, but not all circumstances. They can be useful in many situations, but are not a universal solution to all traffic issues.

Only a very small number of Ontario municipalities have themselves built and operated freeways, so to say that London doesn't want to build an expressway is a bit misleading.

Which ones? You know that every large municipality in Ontario has either a freeway/expressway, or ring road? Windsor, Chatham, Sarnia, Kitchener, Hamilton, Brantford, etc. Can you name me any major city like London, that's in Ontario, in the same boat as us? No you can't. Every other city planned for the future. London didn't.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by jammer139

There is a lot of research and science that goes into optimal roundabout usage and design. Simply put roundabouts work well where the conditions are best met. Not all intersections meet those conditions and have the right combination of variables.


see attached report from Hamilton for the analysis of one of their projects.


http://conf.tac-atc.ca/english/resourcecentre/readingroom/conference/conf2003/pdfs/lenters1.pdf

That is true as well. I just think we need to do something to address this traffic issue that London has, it is getting real bad. I drive frequently in places like the Tri City area, and I love it so much better. Expressways, main roads at 70/80km/h, roundabouts, etc. You come to London and getting down Wellington is a drag and a half, or any street.

[jammer139]

Your right, London was lead by some terrible civic leaders in the past and we have to live with their deliberate lack of vision and planning. Former Mayor Jane Bigalow famously said we don't want the city to grow when the province was paying 80% of the cost of expressways and we got the deadly 2 lane Highway 100/Airport Rd/VMP built. It could have been a full expressway when first started but our short sighted Mayor and council didn't want the city to grow. KW leaped at the offer and got their expressway built at that time. Also the province was deciding on the route of the 402 and wanted to have it go north of the city to Sarnia. Our cowardly civic leaders pushed back on that. Time and time again we have a lack of planning and vision of the future and end up making the wrong choices and getting half assed infrastructure.

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Which ones? You know that every large municipality in Ontario has either a freeway/expressway, or ring road? Windsor, Chatham, Sarnia, Kitchener, Hamilton, Brantford, etc. Can you name me any major city like London, that's in Ontario, in the same boat as us? No you can't. Every other city planned for the future. London didn't.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Which ones?

Which ones (municipalities built and operate their own freeways)? In Hamilton there is the Alexander/Red Hill Pky. In Toronto there is the Gardiner Expy., Don Valley Pky., and Allen Rd. All were started and built by local Regional governments of the day (some to provincial and local opposition). After the abolition of Regional government in both locations, the local City governments inherited them from the Region and either finished construction and operate them today, or inherited them from the Region and operate them today. That's pretty much it.

Originally Posted by tyeman200

You know that every large municipality in Ontario has either a freeway/expressway, or ring road? Windsor, Chatham, Sarnia, Kitchener, Hamilton, Brantford, etc.

Yes, I do. However your assertion is very misleading.

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Can you name me any major city like London, that's in Ontario, in the same boat as us? No you can't. Every other city planned for the future. London didn't.

There is not one that is true, and yes the London leadership and other influential players made very big mistakes 50 years ago. Your assertion however that every other municipality in Ontario that has a freeway is because it planned for it at that same is patently untrue.

[jammer139]

Apparently Quebec St between Oxford and Mornington may finally be re-opened late this Friday.
LFP article on reopening


https://london.ctvnews.ca/quebec-street-to-fully-reopen-to-traffic-on-friday-1.6620334

[Djeffery]

Yes, the city just posted it should be open by 5pm and Oxford back to fully open there as well. I drive by at 1230pm and they looked like they were cleaning up near Oxford but further south looked good to go