Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Let's be realistic. The vast majority of the city is only served by 30 minute buses if we are lucky.

The city has already lost a sizeable portion of its ridership partly because of previous service cuts, both before and after Covid. This has led us to deteriorating, unrealiable and slow service. The remaining service is losing huge amounts of money and plans to cut service yet again. This cannot come with a service improvement from 30 minutes to 10 minutes no matter how straight the routes are. That is simply not happening, at least for the vast majority of the city. The city can't even run Line 2 at a 10 minute frequenc

Maybe we can’t go to 10 minutes, but the only way to improve ridership without spending more money is to move in that direction. I guarantee that if you could get 10-min service on streets like Bank, Bronson, Montreal Rd, Wellington etc, you would get the most bang for your buck in terms of ridership increases. I strongly suspect that good service on Merivale, Hunt Club, Innes etc. is the best way to build all day ridership outside the core.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Let's be realistic. The vast majority of the city is only served by 30 minute buses if we are lucky.

The city has already lost a sizeable portion of its ridership partly because of previous service cuts, both before and after Covid. This has led us to deteriorating, unrealiable and slow service. The remaining service is losing huge amounts of money and plans to cut service yet again. This cannot come with a service improvement from 30 minutes to 10 minutes no matter how straight the routes are. That is simply not happening, at least for the vast majority of the city. The city can't even run Line 2 at a 10 minute frequenc

Do we know why people fled the system? I suspect service cuts are actually a very small part of the loss. WFH aside the people driving now or biking or whatever likely have several reasons; safety, new cars, or new habits probably a big one. It would be good to know for sure.

[DogsWithJobs]

Originally Posted by phil235

Maybe we can’t go to 10 minutes, but the only way to improve ridership without spending more money is to move in that direction. I guarantee that if you could get 10-min service on streets like Bank, Bronson, Montreal Rd, Wellington etc, you would get the most bang for your buck in terms of ridership increases. I strongly suspect that good service on Merivale, Hunt Club, Innes etc. is the best way to build all day ridership outside the core.

I lived in Blackburn Hamlet during university and for a bit working downtown. I never used the 128 as the 94 came every 10-15 minutes and was a 10 minute walk from Innes to where I lived. It made commuting downtown super easy except for when the bus was too full by the time it reached Blackburn.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Do we know why people fled the system? I suspect service cuts are actually a very small part of the loss. WFH aside the people driving now or biking or whatever likely have several reasons; safety, new cars, or new habits probably a big one. It would be good to know for sure.

Hmmm. Besides work from home, what really is the driver for all the other reasons you gave that got people to switch? Discontent with the quality of transit service perhaps.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How many single and double trains are in use at peak periods at the present time? If the next 2 trains are singles, it could be quite a wait before you can board.

So OC Transpo requires 11 trains during the weekday midday, and 13 trains during the rush hour.

From personal observations, I've seen as many as six double-car trains in service. So I would 4 out of 11 double-car trains during weekday off-peak, while 6 out of 13 double-car trains during the rush hour.

[JCL]

I just posted a couple of videos of the Confederation Line, under the current operational condition (single-car train operation and double-car train operation). 

Single-car Train Operation, at every station and both sides of the platform (caution the video is 1 hour and 51 minutes long)

• Video Link

Double-car Train Operation while spotting at Belfast Road and Tremblay Road (almost 15 minutes long)

• Video Link

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Athens

Council needs to get their head out their ass and realize the policy of “maximum 2% property tax increases annually” is literally choking the city. These effectively result in a net reduction in per capita tax, leading to funding shortfalls for critical services. That’s not to mention the inequity of tax paid vs services supplied to urban vs suburban residents. Rural residents pay much less in tax for less service, so why aren’t suburbanites paying more?

Council doesn't care. What urban councillors should push for is malicious compliance that maximizes impact and pain on suburban residents.

[rocketphish]

City mulls anti-ice strategies to prevent winter stoppages on Ottawa's LRT
The city of Ottawa is exploring anti-icing strategies after freezing rain and ice shut down the LRT twice earlier this year.

Marlo Glass, Ottawa Citizen
Published Oct 02, 2023 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 1 minute read

The City of Ottawa is exploring anti-icing strategies after freezing rain and ice shut down the LRT twice earlier this year.

In a report prepared for an upcoming transit commission meeting, city staff say Rideau Transit Maintenance will be testing an anti-ice chemical in October to prepare for the winter. The chemical sticks to the overhead wires and helps prevent ice from building up during freezing rain.

Additionally, the maintenance company is considering installing a monitoring system on the trains, which would provide real-time data and video of the system’s wires, in order to monitor its conditions.

A diesel rail care mover known as a “shunter” is also being considered in order to move trains short distances in the event of a power outage.

Long-term mitigation options include micro-climate weather stations at some train stations.

“A weather station would be a more accurate way of gauging changing weather conditions on the line, which could aid in improved reactions to ice events,” the report reads.

The report does not include the cost of these potential ice mitigation techniques.

On Jan. 4, 2023, the LRT was shut down for six days following a freezing rain storm and ice fog from the nearby Rideau River. The storm caused ice build-up on the overhead catenary near Lees Station, with a citizen’s video showing alarming flashes and sparks as a train sizzles its way along the line.

Both eastbound and westbound trains ground to a halt, and attempts to tow the stalled train with a third rescue train were thwarted when a train wire snapped.

An investigation found the copper line got so hot it melted.

Trains were halted again in April after an unseasonal ice storm on April 5.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-prevent-winter-stoppages-on-ottawas-lrt

[J.OT13]

At FEDCO today, there's a report on Happy Goat O-Train kiosks. A few key items of discussion:

1. Happy Goat to give up Rideau location;
2. Lowering rent and tying it to ridership;
3. They get first dibs on Stage 2 retail locations (Trim, Place d'Orleans, Lincoln Fields, Algonquin and Bayshore).
4. Happy Goat to set firm dates for opening of Hurdman and Tunney's location.

Report carried, dissent by Menard.

https://pub-ottawa.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=145006

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Hmmm. Besides work from home, what really is the driver for all the other reasons you gave that got people to switch? Discontent with the quality of transit service perhaps.

I think most people underestimate the effect of having people WFH half time has on transit. We have basically the same number of parking spaces downtown and the same road infrastructure to drive to/from downtown. If in any given day, half as many people are commuting downtown, but in that same day the same number of people are driving (because they can), you will end up with far less than half as many people commuting by transit.

To put it another way, if one were to assume (total guess on my part using round, easy to use numbers) that pre-pandemic 100k people commuted downtown by either transit or car (I'll eliminate other modes as they are likely relatively consistent), and 20k of them were by car, that means the remaining 80k used transit (partially because they had no other choice). If today only 50k are commuting downtown in a given day, but still 20k drive (since there are enough parking spaces for them), that means only 30k are using transit. In this scenario, ridership would only be 37.5% of the pre-pandemic number.

Improving service or cutting fares won't help significantly with commuter transit usage as that isn't the real problem. We need to find a way to make it easier for more people to not own cars.

[J.OT13]

Cost of parking Downtown has gone up, despite the lower demand, though it does seem like most people are in Wednesday-Thursday, so the occupancy is quite lobsided towards the middle of the week.

Overall though, if you're willing to walk, driving is cheaper than transit if you're two people. It's been like that for at least 20 years.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Overall though, if you're willing to walk, driving is cheaper than transit if you're two people. It's been like that for at least 20 years.

This is more feeling than fact. Once you account for gas, parking, wear and tear on the car (even if it's just tires and fluids), I doubt it works out to less than $16/day for most drivers. And that would cover two commuters roundtrip.

That said, for most people, a car is sunk cost, and since they are already paying for it, I doubt they care of the car use is slightly more expensive than transit, if it saves time and is more comfortable.

If we're going to permanent hybrid for large chunks of the workforce, I'm going to suggest that transit really needs to transition from planning around peak daily substantially to looking at transportation more holistically. This means better integration with other modes (carshare, biking, walking, dropoff). It means fare policies that shift demand to off-peak (maybe seniors only discount off-peak). It means discounts on weekends. Etc.

As for parking costs, housing takes care of this. The more surface lots get developed in the core, the more expensive parking becomes. By the end of the decade, parking is likely to be closer to $20/day throughout the core.

[J.OT13]

Like you said, a car us a sunk cost. In my experience, there's more wear and tear from leaving cars parked than actually driving them. Think breaks and other components that rust in place. Cars are meant to be used.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Like you said, a car us a sunk cost. In my experience, there's more wear and tear from leaving cars parked than actually driving them. Think breaks and other components that rust in place. Cars are meant to be used.

You don't need to commute with your car 3-5 days per week to make sure your car runs. If you're worried about rot, even once a week grocery run would work. Heck, people leave their cars at airports for weeks and months. Works fine when they get back. It's a car, not a perishable vegetable in your crisper.

It's okay to say it is a sunk cost and that's why you use it. I don't see the need for weird justification based on made up sentiments about mechanical functioning.

[acottawa]

Ottawa had a relatively high transit usage before the pandemic, but it was almost exclusively because the city’s largest employer underprovided parking compared to most North American employers.

With semi-WFH semi permanent, and the Feds employing thousands of fully remote workers now, don’t see how they put the genie back in the bottle. I think Truenorth is right that transit is still slightly cheaper if you look at costs from a holistic perspective, but most people won’t do that and even if they did, the quality of life gains probably outweigh the small marginal cost.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You don't need to commute with your car 3-5 days per week to make sure your car runs. If you're worried about rot, even once a week grocery run would work. Heck, people leave their cars at airports for weeks and months. Works fine when they get back. It's a car, not a perishable vegetable in your crisper.

It's okay to say it is a sunk cost and that's why you use it. I don't see the need for weird justification based on made up sentiments about mechanical functioning.

Anecdotal/experience. We have two cars, older cars, and take transit to work. It's a bit of a challenge balancing usage on both. We have our reasons for keeping both (spare when one needs repairs, cheaper to have two old cars than one newer car, they are reliable outside routine maintenance).

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa had a relatively high transit usage before the pandemic, but it was almost exclusively because the city’s largest employer underprovided parking compared to most North American employers.

With semi-WFH semi permanent, and the Feds employing thousands of fully remote workers now, don’t see how they put the genie back in the bottle. I think Truenorth is right that transit is still slightly cheaper if you look at costs from a holistic perspective, but most people won’t do that and even if they did, the quality of life gains probably outweigh the small marginal cost.

More restrictions on parking would be a good step forward, thus further reducing the stock and encouraging more transit usage. Would also make building new residential and commercial buildings cheaper. We should also consider a surface parking tax.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Cost of parking Downtown has gone up, despite the lower demand, though it does seem like most people are in Wednesday-Thursday, so the occupancy is quite lobsided towards the middle of the week.

Overall though, if you're willing to walk, driving is cheaper than transit if you're two people. It's been like that for at least 20 years.

From my understanding (as an outsider, who has never worked downtown), it isn't so much a cost issue, as an availability issue. Yes it costs more to drive, but even if the full cost is perceived by the driver (which it likely isn't), many will see value for the money spent (not everyone looks for the absolute cheapest option in everything they do).

In addition to parking is the road capacity. As other have said, an equilibrium forms between the driving time (with congestion) and transit travel time. With fewer people commuting in a given day, but the roads having capacity for a relatively fixed number of vehicles (ignoring road construction), that equilibrium will shift more towards a higher percentage of people driving.

I am curious about the "most people are in Wednesday-Thursday" comment. Is parking more expensive those days as a result (supply and demand)? Do some people avoid those days to come in? Do some drive on other days but use the bus those days? Are some parking lots mostly empty on the other days? Do people just park further from downtown on those days? I suspect it is a bit of everything.

[acottawa]

I think it is more closer to capacity but not full on Tu-We-Th and way below capacity Mo-Fr. In addition to the government WFH many private sector businesses left or reduce their downtown footprint.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

From my understanding (as an outsider, who has never worked downtown), it isn't so much a cost issue, as an availability issue. Yes it costs more to drive, but even if the full cost is perceived by the driver (which it likely isn't), many will see value for the money spent (not everyone looks for the absolute cheapest option in everything they do).

In addition to parking is the road capacity. As other have said, an equilibrium forms between the driving time (with congestion) and transit travel time. With fewer people commuting in a given day, but the roads having capacity for a relatively fixed number of vehicles (ignoring road construction), that equilibrium will shift more towards a higher percentage of people driving.

I am curious about the "most people are in Wednesday-Thursday" comment. Is parking more expensive those days as a result (supply and demand)? Do some people avoid those days to come in? Do some drive on other days but use the bus those days? Are some parking lots mostly empty on the other days? Do people just park further from downtown on those days? I suspect it is a bit of everything.

At least for us, the car commute is generally much quicker in the morning, and evening's a wash.

Parking is a set-price all week, no surge pricing. We chose to go to work on Mondays most weeks to take advantage of the lower commuter numbers. We take transit as long as transit works and we have nowhere to go right after work. Parking lots, at least from what we've seen, are emptier Mondays and Fridays, though we've seen some odd days where the pattern is off. We park further out to take advantage of the lower prices + a bit of exercise.

That of course, is mostly anecdotal. Not scientific in the slightest.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Anecdotal/experience. We have two cars, older cars, and take transit to work. It's a bit of a challenge balancing usage on both. We have our reasons for keeping both (spare when one needs repairs, cheaper to have two old cars than one newer car, they are reliable outside routine maintenance).

Everyone has their reasons for what they do. As long as you are making a conscious decision, it isn't fair for anyone else to judge (judging is a sign of co-dependence and need to look within to find healing).

Originally Posted by J.OT13

More restrictions on parking would be a good step forward, thus further reducing the stock and encouraging more transit usage. Would also make building new residential and commercial buildings cheaper.

Agreed. Minimum parking requirements were created to save cities the cost of having to build their own parking lots. Unfortunately the consequences of those requirements have destroyed many cities.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We should also consider a surface parking tax.

I have said this for several years now. I do like the idea of having the tax depend on the permeability of the surface (permeable parking surfaces would be taxed less than non-permeable ones as they help absorb storm water, but still taxed more than buildings).