Calgary International Airport II

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

Maybe it opens the door for LH mainline to return with the 789.

I think there is a good chance of that happening, at the very least, on a summer seasonal basis.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'd hope that it's 7x weekly on Eurowings...going from daily AC service to 3x weekly leisure carrier service is horrid.

100%

All airlines are not equal. Eurowings is a lower-end leisure carrier — with little in common with either LH or AC. The drop in frequency plus the major downgrade in carrier is a huge loss for YYC and for Calgary as a business centre.

Meanwhile, WestJet’s new strategy, driven by their new CEO, is to downgrade WS to just a “leisure carrier”. Ironically, the comparison to Eurowings being his vision for WS came up in the coverage last year.

The WS product was really strengthening pre-pandemic (great Premium product, improvements to their FF program, a great lounge - with more to come, 787s entering the fleet with big long-haul plans, a JV with Delta and deep reciprocity for FF customers). He has either halted or reversed all of that. He’s not plunging WestJet to the level of, say, Flair or Spirit … but the Eurowings comparison seems increasingly accurate.

AC all but surrendering YYC to Eurowings Canada, err, I mean WestJet unfortunately speaks volumes about Calgary as a market and as a business destination. While we’re still lucky to have lots of non-stop destinations for this size of city, we’re increasingly stuck with bottom-feeder options.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

100%

All airlines are not equal. Eurowings is a lower-end leisure carrier — with little in common with either LH or AC. The drop in frequency plus the major downgrade in carrier is a huge loss for YYC and for Calgary as a business centre.

Meanwhile, WestJet’s new strategy, driven by their new CEO, is to downgrade WS to just a “leisure carrier”. Ironically, the comparison to Eurowings being his vision for WS came up in the coverage last year.

The WS product was really strengthening pre-pandemic (great Premium product, improvements to their FF program, a great lounge - with more to come, 787s entering the fleet with big long-haul plans, a JV with Delta and deep reciprocity for FF customers). He has either halted or reversed all of that. He’s not plunging WestJet to the level of, say, Flair or Spirit … but the Eurowings comparison seems increasingly accurate.

AC all but surrendering YYC to Eurowings Canada, err, I mean WestJet unfortunately speaks volumes about Calgary as a market and as a business destination. While we’re still lucky to have lots of non-stop destinations for this size of city, we’re increasingly stuck with bottom-feeder options.

Lufthansa, UA and Air Canada have a profit sharing agreement between North American and Europe. If they decide to pull AC off the route and put Lufthansa discount brand then it is a deliberated co-ordinated move. They think they can make more money with more upscale AC product on another route.

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

The WestJet Dreamliner product remains arguably better than the AC Dreamliner despite the CEO's talk about wanting to make WS the shittiest airline on the planet. Yes their FF program is non-existent and their domestic cabins are trash, but until WS start ripping out the J seats on the 787 the product remains far from Eurowings and a good option to Europe.

The J seats on the 787 are pretty standard and are exactly the same as AC's seats. Hard product wise, it's the same. But reverse herringbone direct-aisle access is MUCH better than the dated crappy LH hand-me-downs 4Y runs.

Soft-product wise, WS used to blow them out of the water. Now that we've gone to a single plated meal, AC wins. Catering is a big part of the J experience and it's cheapened when it goes from multi-course with menus to a single plated offering.

Having said that, we are still very, very fortunate to have the TATL/TPAC direct options we have with something resembling a J cabin.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Soft-product wise, WS used to blow them out of the water. Now that we've gone to a single plated meal, AC wins. Catering is a big part of the J experience and it's cheapened when it goes from multi-course with menus to a single plated offering.

It's a big downgrade to the WestJet product. When it was launched, J on their 787 was an incredible product. Now, it's pretty much the same as Premium ... but with a pod.

Similarly, they've downgraded the Premium product on the 737s. Meals only on longer flights (and sometimes they don't bother with meals on longer flights) mean that the product often isn't much more than a bigger seat.

And the WS website now shows that some of their 737 fleet (from Sunwing, I think) will now be single class aircraft -- old school, single class cattle cars.

"Eurowings Canada", "Air Transat West" ... whatever. They've gone downhill.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

It's a big downgrade to the WestJet product. When it was launched, J on their 787 was an incredible product. Now, it's pretty much the same as Premium ... but with a pod.

Similarly, they've downgraded the Premium product on the 737s. Meals only on longer flights (and sometimes they don't bother with meals on longer flights) mean that the product often isn't much more than a bigger seat.

And the WS website now shows that some of their 737 fleet (from Sunwing, I think) will now be single class aircraft -- old school, single class cattle cars.

"Eurowings Canada", "Air Transat West" ... whatever. They've gone downhill.

I had to click back to see if this was the YEG thread. Such complainers on here now. 95% of us don’t fly Premium and are happy with the back of the plane (yes I have flown both AC and WS to Europe this past year and don’t see much difference). I’m just super happy we have so much choice in direct destinations in our city. If you don’t like our choices jump on a connecting flight (sell your house to pay for it too) and fly one the Middle East flights to wherever you have to go. They will give you all the service you require. ������������

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by msmariner

I had to click back to see if this was the YEG thread. Such complainers on here now. 95% of us don’t fly Premium and are happy with the back of the plane (yes I have flown both AC and WS to Europe this past year and don’t see much difference). I’m just super happy we have so much choice in direct destinations in our city. If you don’t like our choices jump on a connecting flight (sell your house to pay for it too) and fly one the Middle East flights to wherever you have to go. They will give you all the service you require. ������������

I would tend to agree with the above mentioned “complainers” in that Westjet’s J and W product on the 787 was pretty swish when it was launched in 2019, so it’s a hard pill to swallow to reconcile the vision in a pre pandemic world and the realities of a post pandemic world. What Sims & Co envisioned and executed in 2019 was pretty special for Westjet, but now Alexis et al have a vastly different view on what Westjet’s product should look like and be, and I think he might be pretty lonely up on his perch. It’s like night and day and it’s frustrating for sure. Maybe the next CEO will reverse these cuts and damages should profits reappear and finances permit?

[peytol]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

I would tend to agree with the above mentioned “complainers” in that Westjet’s J and W product on the 787 was pretty swish when it was launched in 2019, so it’s a hard pill to swallow to reconcile the vision in a pre pandemic world and the realities of a post pandemic world. What Sims & Co envisioned and executed in 2019 was pretty special for Westjet, but now Alexis et al have a vastly different view on what Westjet’s product should look like and be, and I think he might be pretty lonely up on his perch. It’s like night and day and it’s frustrating for sure. Maybe the next CEO will reverse these cuts and damages should profits reappear and finances permit?

Maybe Sims left because Onex had a different vision than he had? IMO AVH is prepping WJ for an IPO, all costs are being cut/ deferred as much as possible. Otherwise why not paint planes in such desperate need and skip catering in big American cities where it's readily available, they are being really tight on costs to shore up the balance sheet. Once WJ is back on the market then hopefully things might swing back to a middle ground, but I do think they are right in realizing they wont be taking on AC in YYZ for the business crowd no matter what catering they put in J.

Eventually all sunwing, swoop and WJ planes will have the same seating config, but not doing the swoop planes right away is just another example of kicking costs down the road.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by peytol

Maybe Sims left because Onex had a different vision than he had? IMO AVH is prepping WJ for an IPO, all costs are being cut/ deferred as much as possible. Otherwise why not paint planes in such desperate need and skip catering in big American cities where it's readily available, they are being really tight on costs to shore up the balance sheet. Once WJ is back on the market then hopefully things might swing back to a middle ground, but I do think they are right in realizing they wont be taking on AC in YYZ for the business crowd no matter what catering they put in J.

Eventually all sunwing, swoop and WJ planes will have the same seating config, but not doing the swoop planes right away is just another example of kicking costs down the road.

I can see what you're saying, but I feel like in a post covid world with WS not taking any financial assistance and bleeding cash they'd have to do all of this anyways to get back to a good financial position.

https://westjet.mediaroom.com/2023-09-01-WestJet-brings-added-connectivity-to-Calgary

With the new WS additions to LAX and YOW after the AC cuts they'll have roughly 128 daily flights out of YYC this winter which includes a lot of mainline upgauges on YXE/YQR/YLW/YZF etc. Having a WS fortress hub sort of sucks but at least they're giving YYC attention.

[casper]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

I would tend to agree with the above mentioned “complainers” in that Westjet’s J and W product on the 787 was pretty swish when it was launched in 2019, so it’s a hard pill to swallow to reconcile the vision in a pre pandemic world and the realities of a post pandemic world. What Sims & Co envisioned and executed in 2019 was pretty special for Westjet, but now Alexis et al have a vastly different view on what Westjet’s product should look like and be, and I think he might be pretty lonely up on his perch. It’s like night and day and it’s frustrating for sure. Maybe the next CEO will reverse these cuts and damages should profits reappear and finances permit?

The other aspect is total number of seats in J between Calgary and Europe has risen with all these flights. The number of people willing to pay top dollar for J likely has not.

Calgary has some people willing to pay a high premium for J. But it is limited. I have never purchased international J, it has always been points redemption or elite upgrade vouchers for me. For years it was always easier to do that through Calgary than Toronto for London or Frankfurt. Places like Rome and Barcelona were also much easier upgrades.

Many of those WestJet J seats are being sold at a discount in cruise line packages or they are upgrades or discounted business fares. I don't think WestJet needs to compete against the worlds best business class product, they need something passable.

[hehehe]

CBC article talking about something we all already know:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bakx-westjet-transatlantic-flights-1.6954757

Calgary airport becoming a connection of choice for U.S. travellers heading overseas

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by hehehe

CBC article talking about something we all already know:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bakx-westjet-transatlantic-flights-1.6954757

Calgary airport becoming a connection of choice for U.S. travellers heading overseas

Because WestJet is pricing those connections way lower than competing non-stop options and lower than most-if-not-all competing connecting options. They're winning U.S.-Europe business primarily by being the cheapest option. Same strategy as various Iceland-based airlines have tried over recent years.

While the headline might seem like it's a point of pride for us Calgarians, it's certainly not about travellers' love for YYC or love of WestJet or any attributes other than $$.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Because WestJet is pricing those connections way lower than competing non-stop options and lower than most-if-not-all competing connecting options. They're winning U.S.-Europe business primarily by being the cheapest option. Same strategy as various Iceland-based airlines have tried over recent years.

While the headline might seem like it's a point of pride for us Calgarians, it's certainly not about travellers' love for YYC or love of WestJet or any attributes other than $$.

Most of the western side of NA you need to do a 1 stop to fly to BCN, Rome and even Paris. There was massive demand this year to those places and WestJet was a new option. It was generally similar pricing to other airlines like Air Canada who pushed to connect people in Montreal and Toronto.

WestJet is doing what Air Canada did (although in a much smaller scale) in 2010. Figure out a way to push 6th freedom.

[YYCFlier]

Most of Air Canada's TATL/TPAC expansion comes from pushing American passengers through YVR, YYZ and YUL. It's not surprising WS had some success doing this at YYC. This is why you can hub anywhere - O&D helps a lot, but you don't need it to make a successful operation if you can route enough feed. Of course, with only 7 frames and a CEO who is more interested in copying Ryanair than Air Canada or other full service airlines, this is about as far as it will go for YYC.

[hollywoodcory]

Condor returns to YYC in S24 2x weekly.

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/de...mmer-2024-condor-flies-to-miami-florida/

Effective May 27:
DE2440 FRA 12:10 - 13:55 YYC 339 14
DE2441 YYC 15:55 - 09:20+1 FRA 339 14

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Condor returns to YYC in S24 2x weekly.

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/de...mmer-2024-condor-flies-to-miami-florida/

Effective May 27:
DE2440 FRA 12:10 - 13:55 YYC 339 14
DE2441 YYC 15:55 - 09:20+1 FRA 339 14

Eurowing Discovery being 12x Weekly. Days 1&4 will have 3 flights Flights from FRA-YYC and back. That’s pretty impressive.
Is this also the first time we’ve had a 339 visit YYC?

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Condor returns to YYC in S24 2x weekly.

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/de...mmer-2024-condor-flies-to-miami-florida/

Calgary is also the headquarters of Condor's partner airline Westjet, so numerous other destinations are optimally connected.

Does Condor actually codeshare with WestJet? Or is this an interline partnership.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Does Condor actually codeshare with WestJet? Or is this an interline partnership.

Interline agreement
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/who-we-are/airline-partners

As of right now, even with AC dipping out, FRA will see an overall increase in S24.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Condor returns to YYC in S24 2x weekly.

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/de...mmer-2024-condor-flies-to-miami-florida/

Effective May 27:
DE2440 FRA 12:10 - 13:55 YYC 339 14
DE2441 YYC 15:55 - 09:20+1 FRA 339 14

I'm wondering if there'll be some codesharing? Makes sense for both DE and WS, especially since it gives WS a bit more European reach considering they only have 7 planes.

I also wonder whether it would make sense for LH to run a potential YYC-MUC and Discover airlines only runs daily next summer instead of 12x weekly FRA, although there was this much capacity to FRA in 2011 or 2012 right?

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm wondering if there'll be some codesharing? Makes sense for both DE and WS, especially since it gives WS a bit more European reach considering they only have 7 planes.

I also wonder whether it would make sense for LH to run a potential YYC-MUC and Discover airlines only runs daily next summer instead of 12x weekly FRA, although there was this much capacity to FRA in 2011 or 2012 right?

Of the 100+ 737’s WS have in their fleet right now. I believe they have a mix of frames they own and lease. If the YYC Europe/Asia is a success like it appears. Could they not lease more 787’s for expansion (if they cannot purchase any from Boeing?). I know the new CEO doesn’t seem to wanna go down that path. But with 3 new members brought on the Board today any path is possible??