Highways in Canada

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"Opening up a region for development" sounds like a weird, alien concept.

Also sadly true.

Such a concept has not existed in this country for at least 75 years.

But, if Canada is going to accept a million immigrants a year, and our population double to 80 million by 2060, we might have to get used to this "alien concept" again.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sadly true.

Whatever happened to nation building????

Originally Posted by Acajack

"Opening up a region for development" sounds like a weird, alien concept.

If we can somehow attract those new immigrants to places like Sudbury, North Bay, Pembroke, Fredericton, Saint John, Moncton, Miramichi, Antigonish, etc., sure why not.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Back then, engineers picked 16 over 15 to avoid contending the metasedimentary rocks of Canadian Shield. (IIRC, any rock cut on the 416 is sedimentary, never metamorphic or igneous, and sedimentary rocks are generally a lot easier to work with than the other two types, unless it’s shale.)

I know that, but I still think it's a missed opportunity. It would have cost more money but would have made for a much better highway network.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As for 7… let’s see what happens after 401 gets widened to 6 lanes at least to the eastern limit of Belleville first.

I'd rather they pursue improving Highway 7 instead of more widening projects east of the GTA. If half of Ottawa-Toronto intercity traffic was diverted to the Highway 7 corridor, that would take away the need for any of these widenings.

Plus it would be an environmental improvement. The Highway 7 route from Toronto to Ottawa is 10% less distance so you'd be significantly reducing transportation energy use if a lot of traffic was diverted to that route. As an added bonus, we'd be helping to ease the growth pressures on GTA and Ottawa by stimulating more growth in that corridor, which is empty and has room for an enormous amount of additional population.

[1overcosc]

Highway 7 corridor is very low hanging fruit for "opening up a new region for development". In fact, it may be the lowest hanging fruit there is in Central Canada. It's almost comically empty given how close it is to the GTA and Ottawa.

It wouldn't even be hard to grow the region significantly if infrastructure was improved. Every single spot on the whole corridor is within a 1 hour drive of the urban area of either Ottawa, Kingston, Belleville, or Oshawa, so it's easily commutable for those who have hybrid jobs that allow for multiple days a week of WFH. And that's with current infrastructure. And this is already happening in that region; many of the rural townships along the corridor saw their highest growth rates ever in the 2021 census.

That can be made even easier with better transportation development, and with a railway line. A joint transportation corridor could be made with a 400 series highway along the Hwy 7 corridor with the HFR line in the median. The HFR line could have both Toronto-Ottawa express services and regional services serving the corridor itself. Integrated bus services could allow north-south connections between these new regional train stops and cities to the south along the 401; routes like Sharbot Lake-Kingston, Tweed-Belleville, and Peterborough-Cobourg.

With better transportation links, the existing growth trend can be accelerated with the growth driven first by white collar remote & hybrid workers commuting to Toronto, Ottawa, Kingston, etc. And as the population grows, that creates demand for construction, which generates local blue collar employment. A larger population, combined with better highway and railway infrastructure would incentivize industrial development which would further enhance employment in the area, leading to a virtuous cycle that sees the region grow considerably over the following decades. There could also be natural resource development too; the Sharbot Lake area has considerable potential for commercial uranium mining, a useful thing given our nuclear expansion plans and the need to move the development world away from Russian supplies.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sadly true.

Whatever happened to nation building????

What nation ? Isn't Canada a post-national state ?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Highway 7 corridor is very low hanging fruit for "opening up a new region for development". In fact, it may be the lowest hanging fruit there is in Central Canada. It's almost comically empty given how close it is to the GTA and Ottawa.

It wouldn't even be hard to grow the region significantly if infrastructure was improved. Every single spot on the whole corridor is within a 1 hour drive of the urban area of either Ottawa, Kingston, Belleville, or Oshawa, so it's easily commutable for those who have hybrid jobs that allow for multiple days a week of WFH. And that's with current infrastructure. And this is already happening in that region; many of the rural townships along the corridor saw their highest growth rates ever in the 2021 census.

That can be made even easier with better transportation development, and with a railway line. A joint transportation corridor could be made with a 400 series highway along the Hwy 7 corridor with the HFR line in the median. The HFR line could have both Toronto-Ottawa express services and regional services serving the corridor itself. Integrated bus services could allow north-south connections between these new regional train stops and cities to the south along the 401; routes like Sharbot Lake-Kingston, Tweed-Belleville, and Peterborough-Cobourg.

With better transportation links, the existing growth trend can be accelerated with the growth driven first by white collar remote & hybrid workers commuting to Toronto, Ottawa, Kingston, etc. And as the population grows, that creates demand for construction, which generates local blue collar employment. A larger population, combined with better highway and railway infrastructure would incentivize industrial development which would further enhance employment in the area, leading to a virtuous cycle that sees the region grow considerably over the following decades. There could also be natural resource development too; the Sharbot Lake area has considerable potential for commercial uranium mining, a useful thing given our nuclear expansion plans and the need to move the development world away from Russian supplies.

I can get behind developing on the Shield to avoid encroaching further on farmland.
MTO may not like the idea of HSR running in the median though, as that will complicate the geometric design of the divided freeway.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Autoroute Guy Lafleur, the A50, between Gatineau and Mirabel and slowly being widened. The highway was promised in 1962, with only a short section built in the 70s and 80s from Hull to Buckingham (today the east end of the City of Gatineau). But they did have the signs that said "Montreal" up from the very beginning.

In 2012, the Liberal Government completed the highway, but at two lanes only. "Better half than nothing" said the Mayor of Gatineau. This semi-highway caused many deaths due to head-on collisions.

When the CAQ was elected, they built a few kilometers of tension cables between the east and west bound lanes, which proved successful, preventing multiple head-on collisions. The Liberals, who did nothing for 6 years, protested the lack of consultation or some dumb thing. Even with that success, the CAQ never bothered adding more of these cable separations.

The highway was named in honour of Montreal Canadians legend, and Thurso's own Guy Lafleur, one year after his death, earlier this year.

The promise is now a full widening by 2032. The next segment is a 10 km stretch from Buckingham, east. It was supposed to open this Fall, but has been delayed to early 2024, which isn't terrible.

That is definitely good news. I've driven on A-50 twice, once in 2014 and once in 2016. Both times it was maddingly slow on the two-lane sections, there was heavy truck traffic and it caused long backups where I'd be driving at barely over 50 km/h.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I have to say that I respect Quebec for continuously upgrading it's motorway network, even to smaller centres. Every couple of years they are opening another major freeway connection which plays well to the total provincial network.

Ontario loves to talk about adding to it's freeway network but I feel like it's very slow in actually implementing improvements. Projects like the Guelph to Waterloo freeway have been sitting for over a decade. It's frustrating.

The Guelph-Waterloo freeway has been on the MTO's books in some form since the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. I remember news stories about it 20 years ago.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The Guelph-Waterloo freeway has been on the MTO's books in some form since the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. I remember news stories about it 20 years ago.

This is correct, and is largely why it remains a 2-lane highway to this day - no point in widening it to 4-lanes when there are plans on the books to replace it with a divided highway.

The important thing to understand, though, is that the purpose of the KW-Guelph highway plans isn't to deal with the heavy traffic on the corridor, but instead as something to promise to the electorate.

Just this past June, Doug Ford dusted it off again and a was pledging that a new Hwy 7 would be a legacy of his government for the region, despite making similar promises when first elected five years ago and then sitting on the file once in office.

People have to understand that as soon as they build that highway, they lose the carrot, so politicians have zero incentive to actually carry plans forward. See also the glacial pace with which they improve the GO Kitchener line. Voters are easily duped and bite the same bait year in year out.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The Guelph-Waterloo freeway has been on the MTO's books in some form since the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken. I remember news stories about it 20 years ago.

IIRC "funding" for it's actual construction wasn't actually announced until 2012 - but that's 11 years ago now. All they have done is rebuild a couple of bridges on 85 to prepare for it, 11 years later.

The Morriston Bypass is quickly turning out similar.. I think funding was announced in 2015 and all we've got so far is an interchange getting built on the Hanlon Parkway.

Both are very important projects without even substantial construction start dates nearly a decade after they were announced to be "moving forward"..

The other promised additions to Ontario's freeway network have also moved at a glacial pace - the 400 extension to Sudbury was supposed to be done in 2017 and now it's 2023 and we'll be lucky if it's done by 2030, the 413 is stuck in federal political limbo, the 417 extension is nowhere to be seen, etc.

The only good news seems to be that the Bradford Bypass is apparently due for a 2024 construction start.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

IIRC "funding" for it's actual construction wasn't actually announced until 2012 - but that's 11 years ago now. All they have done is rebuild a couple of bridges on 85 to prepare for it, 11 years later.

The Morriston Bypass is quickly turning out similar.. I think funding was announced in 2015 and all we've got so far is an interchange getting built on the Hanlon Parkway.

Both are very important projects without even substantial construction start dates nearly a decade after they were announced to be "moving forward"..

The other promised additions to Ontario's freeway network have also moved at a glacial pace - the 400 extension to Sudbury was supposed to be done in 2017 and now it's 2023 and we'll be lucky if it's done by 2030, the 413 is stuck in federal political limbo, the 417 extension is nowhere to be seen, etc.

The only good news seems to be that the Bradford Bypass is apparently due for a 2024 construction start.

That’s because SWO is getting most of the love this time around, with 401 widening through Chatham-Kent, Highway 3 twinning and maybe even Highway 40 twinning.
After SWO is NWO, with TCH twinning in full(?) swing. Afterwards… “Whoops we have no more budget for roads.”

[sonysnob]

The MTO just advertised a consultant assignment for the detailed design of the 401 widening east of Townline Road in Wellington County all the way to the Central Region boundary. If my memory serves me, the consultant assignment had about a two year timeframe for design.

I would expect that although the detailed design assignment is going out at once, there will be more than one project tendered from this assignment. So I'd expect that the next phase of 401 widening / Hwy 6 realignment to commence in about two years time from now. (So 2025, 2026 ish).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The MTO just advertised a consultant assignment for the detailed design of the 401 widening east of Townline Road in Wellington County all the way to the Central Region boundary. If my memory serves me, the consultant assignment had about a two year timeframe for design.

I would expect that although the detailed design assignment is going out at once, there will be more than one project tendered from this assignment. So I'd expect that the next phase of 401 widening / Hwy 6 realignment to commence in about two years time from now. (So 2025, 2026 ish).

I need context.
Where is the Central Region boundary?

[Innsertnamehere]

IIRC it’s the Halton Region boundary, which is also where the EA approved widening ends. I don’t think MTO even has an EA for the 401 between 25 and the Halton Boundary.

Interesting to see that work proceeding, as the EA update for the Morriston Bypass has been radio silence for over a year now:

https://highways6and401hamiltontoguelph.ca/project-schedule/

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

IIRC it’s the Halton Region boundary, which is also where the EA approved widening ends. I don’t think MTO even has an EA for the 401 between 25 and the Halton Boundary.

Interesting to see that work proceeding, as the EA update for the Morriston Bypass has been radio silence for over a year now:

https://highways6and401hamiltontoguelph.ca/project-schedule/

So,they are widening the section between the existing finished sections near Milton to where they widened near K/W? Good to hear. That should make that area flow better.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

IIRC it’s the Halton Region boundary, which is also where the EA approved widening ends. I don’t think MTO even has an EA for the 401 between 25 and the Halton Boundary.

Interesting to see that work proceeding, as the EA update for the Morriston Bypass has been radio silence for over a year now:

https://highways6and401hamiltontoguelph.ca/project-schedule/

The EA for the 401 between the Wellington/Halton (Central Region) Boundary and Highway 25 in Milton started this year.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Highway 7 corridor is very low hanging fruit for "opening up a new region for development". In fact, it may be the lowest hanging fruit there is in Central Canada. It's almost comically empty given how close it is to the GTA and Ottawa.

It wouldn't even be hard to grow the region significantly if infrastructure was improved. Every single spot on the whole corridor is within a 1 hour drive of the urban area of either Ottawa, Kingston, Belleville, or Oshawa, so it's easily commutable for those who have hybrid jobs that allow for multiple days a week of WFH. And that's with current infrastructure. And this is already happening in that region; many of the rural townships along the corridor saw their highest growth rates ever in the 2021 census.

That can be made even easier with better transportation development, and with a railway line. A joint transportation corridor could be made with a 400 series highway along the Hwy 7 corridor with the HFR line in the median. The HFR line could have both Toronto-Ottawa express services and regional services serving the corridor itself. Integrated bus services could allow north-south connections between these new regional train stops and cities to the south along the 401; routes like Sharbot Lake-Kingston, Tweed-Belleville, and Peterborough-Cobourg.

With better transportation links, the existing growth trend can be accelerated with the growth driven first by white collar remote & hybrid workers commuting to Toronto, Ottawa, Kingston, etc. And as the population grows, that creates demand for construction, which generates local blue collar employment. A larger population, combined with better highway and railway infrastructure would incentivize industrial development which would further enhance employment in the area, leading to a virtuous cycle that sees the region grow considerably over the following decades. There could also be natural resource development too; the Sharbot Lake area has considerable potential for commercial uranium mining, a useful thing given our nuclear expansion plans and the need to move the development world away from Russian supplies.

Coming soon: the metropolis of Sharbot Lake

[Latté Olé]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I’ve always found it funny that there are no divided 4 lanes between SK and the states. Lol what happened?
B.C. has B.C.-99 to I-5. Alberta has AB-4 to I-15. Manitoba (which we always joked about) has MB-75 to I-29. Ontario has ON-402 to I-69 among many others. Quebec has A15 to I-87 and A-55 to I-91. Even New Brunswick has N.B.-95 to I-95.
Lol what happened to SK??

I doing a cross Canada drive in october and i an try to figure out what is the best route.
People I talk to say drive avoid northern Ontario, they do not have a very good record of indigenous rights and I look minority, so I go through Michigan and Wisconsin. I probably take border crossing at Sault Saint Marie and enter Canada again at Saskatchewan. I noticed that even though Saskatchewan does not have extra laned highways from there border but they have just as many border crossings into the United States as Ontario. Ontario has ten times as much people. Also there are only one border crossing between Thunder Bay and Sarnia Ontario. That a really long distance without land border crossings
I hope border crossing Sault Saint Marie not to busy, Saskatchewan I no worry.

[Dengler Avenue]

Darn… you might miss out on Lake Superior…
Whoever tells you to avoid Northern Ontario is giving very bad suggestions. -_-
Yes T Bay may be bad, but the other small towns may be fine.

[Acajack]

If the point of doing a cross-Canada trip is to see Canada from coast to coast, then short-cutting through the US defeats the purpose. (I can understand doing it if one needs to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.)

Also, I wouldn't be too concerned about being a minority or about the treatment of Indigenous people affecting your trip. At least, there aren't more issues than there would probably be in the northern reaches of the US.