Metro Vancouver & Interregional Passenger Ferry Service Discussion

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Helijet includes complimentary parking as well in Nanaimo.

Two pieces of luggage.

Complimentary wine/beer, Nespresso Coffee, tea, drinks, prepackaged snacks, grab-n-go snack boxes available. Complimentary daily/weekly newspapers, magazines & WIFI available at all terminals. Work stations available at Victoria and Vancouver Terminals.

Helijet has run their service since 1986 and Harbour Air 1982. The investors behind the ferry don't seem to have any experience running a commuter ferry.

I mean if you can afford to take a plane or helicopter to commute I wonder how many passengers will switch to the ferry option.

You are making some wrong assumptions about Hullo's business plan, then criticizing them based on those wrong assumptions.

There are only 6 Helijet flights between Vancouver and Nanaimo per day x max 12 passengers per flight. That's only 72 passenger per day. Hullo is not relying on luring Helijet passengers away at all.

[Migrant_Coconut]

That’s the point: Helijet is outright selling itself as a luxury charter service, and so doesn’t have to worry about low passenger demand because its business model is counting on that.

Compare and contrast with Hullo, which is trying to sell itself as a “premium economy” alternative to BC Ferries. That model requires a crapload of riders and as many sailings a day as possible… and right now they have neither.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by logan5

You are making some wrong assumptions about Hullo's business plan, then criticizing them based on those wrong assumptions.

There are only 6 Helijet flights between Vancouver and Nanaimo per day x max 12 passengers per flight. That's only 72 passenger per day. Hullo is not relying on luring Helijet passengers away at all.

I didn't say it was part of their business plan I just asked the question how many people in that demographic would switch to the ferry.

If you want to see a giant hole in their business plan where's all the Vancouver to Nanaimo daily commuters that are going to fill seats on the return trip?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by madog222

How many people take Helijet or Harbour Air? Or do those companies also have no business plan?

My friend did after booking Hullo and they cancelled on her last minute.

HJ and HA service the Victoria-Vancouver market for the vast majority of their business. Totally different than Nanaimo.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by martinishaker

The hundreds of walk on passengers live closer to downtown then the tiny way out of the way hermit enclave of Horseshoe Bay. Some other people only take a car, to avoid having to take the loser cruiser bus to their destination around down town Vancouver. Yes - I am one of them. Warren, feel free to just copy and paste your soon to be response from your previous posts.

Hating on the bus and Horseshoe Bay. You must be a charming person.

There aren't "hundreds of walk on passengers" interested in going to/from Nanaimo.

[martinishaker]

Love HS Bay, just way out of the way. I love how you tell me there are not hundreds of people travelling to and from Nanaimo, when I literally see them with my own eyes. There are 300-400k people mid island that use the 2 ferry terminals to get to and from Vancouver.
From a twitter observer.
Great passenger numbers for #Hullo Ferries' last sailings on its first-ever Sunday. On time, too. ⛴⛴

260+ disembarking in #Vancouver at 5:45 pm.

~210 embarking to #Nanaimo at 6:30 pm.

Note: Capacity temporarily limited to 80% during soft launch period. #bcpoli #vanpoli
https://x.com/iamkennethchan/status/1693442160950198449?s=46

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Hullo has zero clue about how much demand there is for regular commuter traffic to Vancouver. And I doubt they have a business plan that is relying on some people magically selling their house in Vancouver to move to Nanaimo because of this amazing new service.

Do you have stats on what the demand is?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Do you have stats on what the demand is?

I mean the West Vancouver Blue Bus passenger numbers after a Nanaimo ferry arrives is probably some data. I mean there are commuters and then people taking the occasional trip every few weeks. But again who knows what the demand is.

And I think people are discounting the terminal conditions. Take this photo when it's pouring rain or snowing.



https://twitter.com/iamkennethchan/status/1693442900712202353/photo/1

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

And I think people are discounting the terminal conditions. Take this photo when it's pouring rain or snowing.

Does Hullo not have any indoor/covered waiting space?!

[Mac Write]

They are over-whelming the terminal. Why didn't they use the sea bus terminal and build out a waiting area? That photo looks insane all those people lined up. As for Horseshoe Bay it can be insane with foot traffic. easily over-whelming the waiting room.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Don't quote the "200+" numbers from this week. Instead, quote the numbers six months from now (if they even last that long) when it's the middle of February, the queue is slushed out, the waves are as tall as a grown adult, and all the opening day hype from this summer has worn off.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Does Hullo not have any indoor/covered waiting space?!

They seem to just have some tiny customer service desk space. V2V I think had a 3200 sq feet space.

https://www.loopnet.com/viewer/pdf?file=...89iHHE%2fMarketing%2520BrochureFlyer.pdf

Harbour Air will need security to keep out Hullo customers out of their lounge lol

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

They are over-whelming the terminal. Why didn't they use the sea bus terminal and build out a waiting area? That photo looks insane all those people lined up. As for Horseshoe Bay it can be insane with foot traffic. easily over-whelming the waiting room.

The lease for the SeaBus terminal dock is probably substantially higher than what they are paying VHFC. I mean other than cost savings I don't know a single reason you would choose the seaplane dock.

And a seaplane pilot on Reddit said that East end of the floating docks has significant wake/heavy swells.

They are angling in when they come in to dock so from someone with *zero* maritime knowledge/experience don't they need more floating fenders? There seems to be huge gaps at the exact spot they could possibly make contact with the bow of the ship.



https://www.trelleborg.com/en/marine-and...s/marine/marine-fenders/floating-fenders

And re: the swells on the East Dock

"We've been concerend about various aspects of facility," he said. "One of the aspects is we weren't consulted on it at the time it was built. Our docks are designed to absorb waves and to flex with them and this is a dock that is almost a solid object, so anything that is up against it has a tremendous amount of action, so that has been our concern."

Prior to the weekend test, no sea plane company had used the exposed east dock overnight due to safety concerns. Float plane operators say the finger extends too far into the harbour, exposing docked planes to strong swells, waves and wind.

https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/par...erns-over-new-vancouver-facility-1025189

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Don't quote the "200+" numbers from this week. Instead, quote the numbers six months from now (if they even last that long) when it's the middle of February, the queue is slushed out, the waves are as tall as a grown adult, and all the opening day hype from this summer has worn off.

There are many options they can do in February for that queue. Just need a little imagination.

And February brings other travel opportunities as well for the passengers.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by djmk

There are many options they can do in February for that queue. Just need a little imagination.

And February brings other travel opportunities as well for the passengers.

Imagination requires a willingness to spend money on it; if Hullo had the latter, they probably wouldn't be using the seaplane dock.

February also brings a stronger desire to use climate-controlled buildings (and less turbulence-prone vessels) to get to those opportunities.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Imagination requires a willingness to spend money on it; if they had that, they probably wouldn't be using the seaplane dock.

February also brings a stronger desire to use climate-controlled vessels and buildings to get to those opportunities.

yikes.

[martinishaker]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Imagination requires a willingness to spend money on it; if Hullo had the latter, they probably wouldn't be using the seaplane dock.

February also brings a stronger desire to use climate-controlled buildings (and less turbulence-prone vessels) to get to those opportunities.

Hopefully their bid for the Seabus dock get approved one day, however, I like the seaplane location better for my work. We have umbrellas for the rain, just like when boarding the seaplanes, that stop flying at sunset.

https://www.hopestandard.com/news/island-ferries-bids-for-vancouver-berth/

[Migrant_Coconut]

As noted previously, the seaplanes have an indoor lounge, which is much more useful than umbrellas in rain or snow. Same applies to half-melted slush - a fairly common thing in BC.

Island Ferries was a completely different business. Hullo is the main investor (Rupesh Amin, owner of Conqora) trying to do his own version of the same thing; at last check, he was being sued by the former owners.

[ilikeredheads]

let's be real, at the current pace they are operating in, passengers wouldn't have to wait outside in the elements since the sailings would just be canceled last minute.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by martinishaker

Hopefully their bid for the Seabus dock get approved one day, however, I like the seaplane location better for my work. We have umbrellas for the rain, just like when boarding the seaplanes, that stop flying at sunset.

https://www.hopestandard.com/news/island-ferries-bids-for-vancouver-berth/

They stopped the process this summer to use the Seabus terminal.