Metro Vancouver & Interregional Passenger Ferry Service Discussion

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by madog222

Here is Sthuqi's track from today's runs, the color gradient is speed. Max speed looked to be 36kn (67km/h)


From marinetraffic.com

This site tells the speed on the past track for free.

Right around Stanley Park/approaching Lions Gate it's 15-20kts
When it bends around Prospect Point until docking its 5-10kts

https://www.myshiptracking.com/?mmsi=316052438

[jollyburger]

Technical problems are top secret apparently.

But the company cancelled its final two sailings on Wednesday — the 4 p.m. out of Nanaimo and the 6:30 p.m. out of Vancouver.

Caddick would not reveal details about the technical problem. “I don’t think we need to go deeper than that,” he said.

The company has talked to Damen, the builder of the vessels, he said.

“Early issues are very common as you get up and going with a new vessel,” Caddick said. “So it is nothing that shouldn’t be expected as you launch a new service with a new vessel in new waters. We quickly resolved the issue.”

https://www.timescolonist.com/business/b...o-each-suffer-technical-problems-7422838

And now they're hyping up a six ship fleet with service to Victoria.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Ah, the Osborne Computer strategy: try and fail to get people to buy the existing product by hyping the future ones.

Yeah, no thanks, I'll wait for the six-ferry service.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

When it bends around Prospect Point until docking its 5-10kts

The SeaBus can make 12 knots in the Inlet... something I'm missing here?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Ah, the Osborne Computer strategy: try and fail to get people to buy the existing product by hyping the future ones.

Yeah, no thanks, I'll wait for the six-ferry service.

The SeaBus can make 12 knots in the Inlet... something I'm missing here?

Well they are probably speed limited around the bridge where it narrows and then they are also dealing with seaplane traffic near Canada Place. The traffic control zone for the First Narrows for larger ships is 10 knots so I assume they follow that.

Not sure if the SeaBus is equipped with better radar?

This Centerm expansion document shows all the landing/takeoff zones and their location right next to the seaplane docks pretty much dumps them in the middle of that zone.

https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-content...-Air_Transportation_Impact_Study-CEP.pdf

[jollyburger]

Here's a study for a Vancouver/Squamish high speed ferry concept with lots of interesting data. It's from 2001 so it's quite old but some information is still relevant.

http://www.urbanstudio.sala.ubc.ca/squamish2004/trans%20Marine_Options.pdf

[logan5]

Driving up to Whistler this afternoon I noticed a sign saying all sailings to Nanaimo sold out. It’s not even a long weekend or anything special. There’s a huge need for an alternative like hullo.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by logan5

Driving up to Whistler this afternoon I noticed a sign saying all sailings to Nanaimo sold out. It’s not even a long weekend or anything special. There’s a huge need for an alternative like hullo.

Yeah totally ignore the fact there's a mechanical issue on a BC Ferry that lead to cancellations. That seems kind of special.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Yeah totally ignore the fact there's a mechanical issue on a BC Ferry that lead to cancellations. That seems kind of special.

Obviously as huge need for an alternative if a ferry break down strands people in Vancouver for a day.

[Migrant_Coconut]

If said alternative's business model depends on a once-a-blue-moon BC Ferry cancellation, it might as well cut to the chase and ask for subsidies right now - especially when the latter is currently much more reliable than the former.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Well they are probably speed limited around the bridge where it narrows and then they are also dealing with seaplane traffic near Canada Place. The traffic control zone for the First Narrows for larger ships is 10 knots so I assume they follow that.

Not sure if the SeaBus is equipped with better radar?

I'm just speculating, but it would not surprise me if the SeaBus has unique rules given that it is a high-frequency route crossing on a dedicated path.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I'm just speculating, but it would not surprise me if the SeaBus has unique rules given that it is a high-frequency route crossing on a dedicated path.

I guess there is a 5 knot zone that they are going through and that's where they sort of slow down the most.

Coal Harbour: All vessels, excluding the
Seabus, must navigate at a safe speed not to
exceed five knots through the water. The
Coal Harbour speed restriction zone is bound
by a line drawn from Prospect Point to
Burnaby Shoal to Canada Place to Centerm
and all areas west to the head of Coal
Harbour (area shown in the image below).

https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2018-12-18_Notice-of-Amendment.pdf

And this exception

The new requirement to have the Seabus
use a white, all-round strobe light
contradicts the Collision Regulations Rule
36 and Rule 37.

Seabuses operating in the harbour have displayed
a white strobe light dating over two decades.
During poor weather, reduced visibility and the
backdrop of the city lights at night, the strobe
light is an aid for other vessels and aircraft to
identify the position of the Seabus in the harbour.
Seabus operations are a very important
component of the transportation supply chain in
Vancouver, these operations take place in the
middle of the busy harbour in both daylight and
darkness, in all weather conditions.
Translink, with the support of the port authority,
has requested an exemption from Collision
Regulations Rule 36 and Rule 37 under Transport
Canada for the use of a white, all-round strobe
light.

https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2019-02-05-Consideration-Report.pdf

It seems like they even went faster in the past but had problems with wakes and I guess with the third ferry running they can do the higher frequencies at the lower speed. They talked about a 7 minute crossing time that was achievable (from the 12 currently)

https://ferriesbc.proboards.com/thread/7619/seabus-photo-discussion-thread?page=14

[jollyburger]

That Ferries forum has these tidbits:

The other ship is getting repaired which explains why they slashed the sailings.

They were also quite advanced in using the berth at the Waterfront Seabus terminal for docking.

https://www.portvancouver.com/permitting...nly-ferry-service-south-seabus-terminal/

They would have installed compass terminals to "tap out" when entering the Hullo section.

They originally had 6 crossing for the peak season and 4 crossings in the winter (for 4 months)

• The intended service speed of the vessels is up to 37 knots for the majority of the crossing.
However, vessel speeds will be gradually reduced from the QB buoy (the Burrard Inlet
cautionary light buoy, located at 49-18.7N 123-11.9W) as the vessels enter Burrard Inlet.
• Vessel speeds under the Lions Gate Bridge are projected at 15 knots; this reduces to 12
knots as they pass Burnaby Shoal and the Sea Plane Zone and to 10 knots at Canada Place.
• The waves generated by the vessels while m oving through the Port of Vancouver are
anticipated to be less than 58 cm (peak-to-trough) or 29 cm (zero-to-peak) based on sea
trials. At greater speeds during the transit, wave height is predicted to peak at around 1 m
(peak-to-trough).
• Air em issions will com ply with the Tier 3 engine em ission requirem ents of the International
Maritime Organization (compulsory for new vessels in Canada as of January 1, 2016).
• The vessels will be equipped with a Night Navigator night vision system and other
navigation and com m unication system s in accordance with Transport Canada and High
Speed Craft Code requirem ents.

https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-content...-03-Nanaimo-Ferry-Amendment-3-Letter.pdf

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

Obviously as huge need for an alternative if a ferry break down strands people in Vancouver for a day.

1. People aren't "stranded in Vancouver"
2. Hullo doesn't help those trying to move a vehicle

[martinishaker]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

1. People aren't "stranded in Vancouver"
2. Hullo doesn't help those trying to move a vehicle

You keep repeating the same points over and over.

The hundreds of walk on passengers live closer to downtown then the tiny way out of the way hermit enclave of Horseshoe Bay. Some other people only take a car, to avoid having to take the loser cruiser bus to their destination around down town Vancouver. Yes - I am one of them. Warren, feel free to just copy and paste your soon to be response from your previous posts.

[jollyburger]

Hullo has zero clue about how much demand there is for regular commuter traffic to Vancouver. And I doubt they have a business plan that is relying on some people magically selling their house in Vancouver to move to Nanaimo because of this amazing new service.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by martinishaker

Some other people ... avoid having to take the loser cruiser bus ...

Tarring people with pejorative language is one of the big reasons why modern society is getting more and more polarized.

[jollyburger]

It'll be interesting how the fuel input costs affects their business plan.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Hullo has zero clue about how much demand there is for regular commuter traffic to Vancouver. And I doubt they have a business plan that is relying on some people magically selling their house in Vancouver to move to Nanaimo because of this amazing new service.

How many people take Helijet or Harbour Air? Or do those companies also have no business plan?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Helijet/Harbour Air choppers and seaplanes run at $100-200/ticket in a much smaller vehicle.

Catamarans have higher maintenance, fuel consumption and insurance, and at $30-60, much less revenue per passenger... and on top of everything, one's in drydock and the other's undercapacity.

[jollyburger]

Helijet includes complimentary parking as well in Nanaimo.

Two pieces of luggage.

Complimentary wine/beer, Nespresso Coffee, tea, drinks, prepackaged snacks, grab-n-go snack boxes available. Complimentary daily/weekly newspapers, magazines & WIFI available at all terminals. Work stations available at Victoria and Vancouver Terminals.

Helijet has run their service since 1986 and Harbour Air 1982. The investors behind the ferry don't seem to have any experience running a commuter ferry.

I mean if you can afford to take a plane or helicopter to commute I wonder how many passengers will switch to the ferry option.