Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

What the h*ll is going on? I put the webcam at Cyrville Station on again at 8:57 pm. The first eastbound train went by at 9:13 pm, the next at 9:34 pm. The first westbound train at 9:30pm. Is this the confidence builder we were promised? This is shockingly bad.

As you all may recall, we were originally promised 5 minute frequency until 10 p.m., then 8 minute frequency until 11:30 pm then 15 minute frequency until 1 a.m.

The current published schedule reduces frequency to 7 to 8 minutes at 6 pm., 10 minutes at 9 p.m. and 15 to 25 minute frequency (variable) at 10:30 p.m. How is the last usable if you need to transfer to a local bus?

Obviously, they are not achieving their published schedule, which with grade separated rail should be easy with good weather.

It looks like this city is desperate to save money, by delivering awful service on the city's only trunk transit line. People should be calling out the mayor on this shambles.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What the h*ll is going on? I put the webcam at Cyrville Station on again at 8:57 pm. The first eastbound train went by at 9:13 pm, the next at 9:34 pm. The first westbound train at 9:30pm. Is this the confidence builder we were promised? This is shockingly bad.

As you all may recall, we were originally promised 5 minute frequency until 10 p.m., then 8 minute frequency until 11:30 pm then 15 minute frequency until 1 a.m.

The current published schedule reduces frequency to 7 to 8 minutes at 6 pm., 10 minutes at 9 p.m. and 15 to 25 minute frequency (variable) at 10:30 p.m. How is the last usable if you need to transfer to a local bus?

Obviously, they are not achieving their published schedule, which with grade separated rail should be easy with good weather.

It looks like this city is desperate to save money, by delivering awful service on the city's only trunk transit line. People should be calling out the mayor on this shambles.

They can't call now, his line is too busy getting calls from people desperate to drive up and down the QED. Amilcar should be infront of the press EVERY DAY until the service we paid for exists. Are they at least in Ottawa now instead of running the show from Montreal?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

They can't call now, his line is too busy getting calls from people desperate to drive up and down the QED. Amilcar should be infront of the press EVERY DAY until the service we paid for exists. Are they at least in Ottawa now instead of running the show from Montreal?

I wonder that every day that I see Amilcar being interviewed in that room with the OC logo. Is this in Montreal?

[lrt's friend]

OK, looked up on twitter, and there was a broken down train, which affected service. Apparently now resolved. Still the published 6 minute frequency (including on the OC website) in off-peak hours is not being honoured after 6 p.m. Reduced frequency is not mentioned unless you look at the details of the schedule.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

edit: also...wtf is every 4 to 5 minutes...its one train line and they can't be precise to the second? Thats a 25% variance in your train service.

That’s transit speak for 4 min and 30 seconds. Have you ever seen a train schedule the tells you the number of seconds after the minute that a train/bus will leave?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What the h*ll is going on? I put the webcam at Cyrville Station on again at 8:57 pm. The first eastbound train went by at 9:13 pm, the next at 9:34 pm. The first westbound train at 9:30pm. Is this the confidence builder we were promised? This is shockingly bad.

As you all may recall, we were originally promised 5 minute frequency until 10 p.m., then 8 minute frequency until 11:30 pm then 15 minute frequency until 1 a.m.

The current published schedule reduces frequency to 7 to 8 minutes at 6 pm., 10 minutes at 9 p.m. and 15 to 25 minute frequency (variable) at 10:30 p.m. How is the last usable if you need to transfer to a local bus?

Obviously, they are not achieving their published schedule, which with grade separated rail should be easy with good weather.

It looks like this city is desperate to save money, by delivering awful service on the city's only trunk transit line. People should be calling out the mayor on this shambles.

Just checked indeed 40 minutes interval between 20:49 and 21:30. That's bad.

I wonder why they are reducing frequency after 9? You either have trains or you don't. Also, if anything, you want fewer people per train to keep the weight down.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That’s transit speak for 4 min and 30 seconds. Have you ever seen a train schedule the tells you the number of seconds after the minute that a train/bus will leave?

Did they run at 4:30 today

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Just checked indeed 40 minutes interval between 20:49 and 21:30. That's bad.

I wonder why they are reducing frequency after 9? You either have trains or you don't. Also, if anything, you want fewer people per train to keep the weight down.

Our tax paying citizen who don't work govt hours continue take it for the team.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yep. Not only is it single LRV. It's running 5-7 mins off-peak. That's a massive cut in capacity anyway. This is RTG's problem. They can eat the cost of the wheels and axles. It's getting ridiculous that after getting a P3, they get coddled. The entire point of a P3 is that they get the profits and the risk. What are they getting paid for?

Not walking away.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I commented that I did not think that the work on the restraining rails had been completed, as OC Transpo stated. My opinion is that ALL of the work will not be completed until ALL of the restraining rails are in their proper places - including the ones that have temporarily been removed around the curve east of Rideau Station. OCCheetos replied:

Your response suggests that I am arguing the word “complete”. That is only partially true. I do not consider the work to be “complete” if we are waiting for a safety feature to be reinstalled. However, the more important point is that there is still a safety feature to be installed, therefore the work is not yet “complete”.

Again, this is just arguing the semantics of what you say OC Transpo "parroted".
OC Transpo gave a relevant update on the work that needed to be done before service could resume.
Your concern is that they didn't mention the remaining work (which it turns out they actually did mention) that didn't block the resumption of service anyway.

Well, maybe this analogy can help explain my position: You have a car with a TAKATA-made airbag in it, and you get a letter saying that the vehicle has been recalled because of that airbag. However, the letter continues, the company does not have any replacement airbags at the moment, so you should visit the dealer (as soon as possible) to have the current airbag disabled until it can be replaced in a couple of weeks.

Crazy analogy, you say? Let’s look and see:
[...]
My opinion is that SAFETY MATTERS. You might have a different opinion. I would not be driving the car anywhere except to the appointment to have the airbag replaced.

This is a very different argument than what you presented in the post I originally replied to.

I think comparing this to an airbag is also really flawed. There are many more external factors that could cause a head-on collision when driving (i.e. possibly hundreds of other drivers, any one of which could make a mistake), and without restricting the speed of driving your broken car there is an inherent increase of risk that does not exist on the LRT. Even with a functional airbag, I think you'd already know that driving is significantly more dangerous than a very speed-reduced train...

In the above, I mentioned that the possibility of a derailment around that curve was low. But that is just a guess. Since the restraining rail has previously been installed, any time the high wheels started to climb, the restraining rail would have prevented further sideways movement. Thus, we really don’t know if a derailment is a low possibility or not on that particular curve. There hasn't been a derailment there, but there has always been a restraining rail to prevent one.

What exactly qualifies you to build entire arguments around guesswork while still providing no real sources to support anything you say?

But the train is now restricted to just 15 KPH around that curve. Slow speed is no guarantee that there will not be a derailment. There have been a number of derailments within the MSF yard. As I understand it, there are no restraining rails within the MSF, and the speeds are very slow.

Yard track is laid differently than mainline track and kept to different standards. They can't be compared directly. (This has been explained in public meetings to city council).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Not walking away.

This honestly reminds me of some our terrible military procurements, where we boxed ourselves in because of political reasons and kept escalating commitments.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are the temporary speed reductions really temporary or only until we forget about them and get used to the slow service?

Yes, it's all a ploy to normalize these speed restrictions until you're the only one who remembers "the good old days" when trains ran 10km/h faster around curves.

Unlike the Toronto streetcar, OC Transpo has actually provided a plan to return to regular operating conditions. It will take years, but how many more times are you going to post this in the meantime?

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

They can't call now, his line is too busy getting calls from people desperate to drive up and down the QED. Amilcar should be infront of the press EVERY DAY until the service we paid for exists. Are they at least in Ottawa now instead of running the show from Montreal?

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I wonder that every day that I see Amilcar being interviewed in that room with the OC logo. Is this in Montreal?

Where did this story of Amilcar working out of Montreal even come from? Has anyone ever confirmed it? Have either of you bothered to verify any of this? Did it occur to you that the room with the OC logo is.... just the OC Transpo office??

[J.OT13]

I'm questioning the point of the west R1 Express. The train only travels two stations before hitting downtown. OC doesn't seem to see this as a capacity thing, but a convenience thing. I can understand for the east since travel times are noticeably longer than they were.

I just hope R1 Express won't continue to run at the expense of urban regular service like R1 was in general.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, that is correct. The bill was already 2.1 billion when McGuinty offered 600M. This is in contrast to the province paying 100 percent of projects in Toronto and 300M of the 800M cost of the Waterloo LRT.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-offers-600m-for-ottawa-light-rail-1.798676

A better comparison would be per capita costs.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Yes, it's all a ploy to normalize these speed restrictions until you're the only one who remembers "the good old days" when trains ran 10km/h faster around curves.

Unlike the Toronto streetcar, OC Transpo has actually provided a plan to return to regular operating conditions. It will take years, but how many more times are you going to post this in the meantime?





Where did this story of Amilcar working out of Montreal even come from? Has anyone ever confirmed it? Have either of you bothered to verify any of this? Did it occur to you that the room with the OC logo is.... just the OC Transpo office??

It seems to me that we keep adding new go slow orders.

Why should we not keep putting pressure on to find solutions that eliminate go slow orders. From what you say, we should just not talk about it. No pressure, gives leeway to just extend out solutions, to the point that they may never come. When solutions are measured in years, it is easy to make compromises and cost savings rather than deliver the full solution. By then, everybody will be accustomed to the extra 5 or 10 minutes on every trip, and that is what many officials are hoping for.

This morning on the radio riders were fondly remembering the faster service offered by Transitway buses and now we are seeing rail service cuts (which have not all been publicized) on top of the slower service. For this, we paid $2.1B and soon a whole lot more.

While the original plan had rail replace most cross city trips, we are just beginning to discover that buses can do a better job. So, the original purpose of rail is eroding. Longer trips by rail are becoming non-competitive, which is where rail should have excelled.

Meanwhile, we see just down the river a new rail service that appears to be functioning much better and offering service that is often faster than by car.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm questioning the point of the west R1 Express. The train only travels two stations before hitting downtown. OC doesn't seem to see this as a capacity thing, but a convenience thing. I can understand for the east since travel times are noticeably longer than they were.

I just hope R1 Express won't continue to run at the expense of urban regular service like R1 was in general.

There is no efficient road that follows the Confederation Line. We can no longer offer fast service into downtown on R1. R1 Express at Blair is the best we can do and is the only place where buses are significantly faster than the train, now that the Transitway no longer exists. Better something than nothing.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I think comparing this to an airbag is also really flawed. There are many more external factors that could cause a head-on collision when driving (i.e. possibly hundreds of other drivers, any one of which could make a mistake), and without restricting the speed of driving your broken car there is an inherent increase of risk that does not exist on the LRT. Even with a functional airbag, I think you'd already know that driving is significantly more dangerous than a very speed-reduced train...

Agreed! An air bag does nothing to prevent a collision. It is just there to protect the occupants when one happens. A much better analogy would be with with a car's "Collision avoidance system." Those are safety features, but having to temporarily disable it doesn't make the car unsafe to drive. You just need to make the appropriate adjustments when driving the vehicle.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why should we not keep putting pressure on to find solutions that eliminate go slow orders. From what you say, we should just not talk about it. No pressure, gives leeway to just extend out solutions, to the point that they may never come. When solutions are measured in years, it is easy to make compromises and cost savings rather than deliver the full solution. By then, everybody will be accustomed to the extra 5 or 10 minutes on every trip, and that is what many officials are hoping for.

He isn't saying don't talk about it. He is saying don't make accusations that the speed reductions are permanent without any evidence to support your theory.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This morning on the radio riders were fondly remembering the faster service offered by Transitway buses and now we are seeing rail service cuts (which have not all been publicized) on top of the slower service. For this, we paid $2.1B and soon a whole lot more.

While the original plan had rail replace most cross city trips, we are just beginning to discover that buses can do a better job. So, the original purpose of rail is eroding. Longer trips by rail are becoming non-competitive, which is where rail should have excelled.

Meanwhile, we see just down the river a new rail service that appears to be functioning much better and offering service that is often faster than by car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitway_(Ottawa)

The R1 Express won't experience these slowdowns as we're not pushing 300 of them phpd, but that is the reason why we replaced buses with a train tunnel. The Transitway, at least downtown, was not as perfect as what people seem to be remembering it now.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is no efficient road that follows the Confederation Line. We can no longer offer fast service into downtown on R1. R1 Express at Blair is the best we can do and is the only place where buses are significantly faster than the train, now that the Transitway no longer exists. Better something than nothing.

Sure R1 Express for Blair, while we have the slow orders, but from Tunney's, it's pointless. Very little, if any time savings.

[DTcrawler]

It’s mind boggling listening to people comparing one phase of the O-Train network to the full Transitway network. “But I can’t go from Algonquin to Orleans anymore!” Well, in 3-4 years you can. Besides, as others have mentioned, there is some serious revisionism going on as to the effectiveness of street-running Transitway buses through the core.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

It’s mind boggling listening to people comparing one phase of the O-Train network to the full Transitway network. “But I can’t go from Algonquin to Orleans anymore!” Well, in 3-4 years you can. Besides, as others have mentioned, there is some serious revisionism going on as to the effectiveness of street-running Transitway buses through the core.

Rose-tinted glasses.... And a whole lot of suburbanite whining about not having the express system that got them to/from there 9-5.... Just look at the kerfuffle about the QED, to see what is backing this whining....