Majority Of US Prefers Communities With Big Houses, Even If Local Amenities Are Far

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Very few people are raising their kids in rural areas in 2023, do you live under a rock? Do you have kids?

I live in a rural area and plenty of people are raising their kids here.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by TWAK

I live in a rural area and plenty of people are raising their kids here.

Cool, “dude on the internet lives in a trailer”…Relatively few Americans raise children in a rural area, you’re arguing statistics?

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Cool, “dude on the internet lives in a trailer”…Relatively few Americans raise children in a rural area, you’re arguing statistics?

Is there something wrong with that?
Maybe that's because relatively few Americans live in rural areas to begin with and do you got some stats? Nothing wrong with anecdotal evidence in the CD forum, lol that's what everybody does "my area...xyz".

[Quixote]

Being within walking distance (generally defined as 10 minutes, or a half-mile) to amenities sounds nice on paper, but you’d be lucky if even 20% of those Americans who desire such would be comfortable with the externalities concomitant with producing built environments that are actually walkable. Eliminating parking spaces in favor of wider sidewalks and perhaps protected bike lanes, sharing a building with “those people,” having your taxpayer dollars go towards investing in marginal improvements to infrequent bus service, etc. are necessary ingredients for nurturing bona fide walkable environments, which require a critical mass of support to affect and sustain the necessary changes in political leadership and regulations at various levels of government. And if you can get past those hurdles, there’s no telling what kind of developments you’ll get. More horizontal skyscrapers with blank walls at street level?

You can be within “walking distance” of a quality grocery store, convenience store, bank, Verizon/AT&T/T-Mobile, UPS/FedEx/USPS, dry cleaner, tailor, restaurants, coffee shops, etc., but need to travel along highway-wide streets with no sidewalks. What good is being within “walking distance” then if walkability is poor and all those amenities are in a strip mall?

[llamaorama]

I agree with people saying this survey, which asks people to sacrifice something like the size of the house, doesn't accurately reflect what percentage of the population would appreciate walkability if it was present in their preferred neighborhood.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I agree with people saying this survey, which asks people to sacrifice something like the size of the house, doesn't accurately reflect what percentage of the population would appreciate walkability if it was present in their preferred neighborhood.

What I like about the poll is that it draws the direct connection between living in smaller houses on smaller pieces of land to walkable urbanism.

Sure, some people who live in 4,000+ SF homes on a half-acre+ lots might like to have more walkable urbanism in their neighborhood, but functionally walkable urbanism doesn't exist in neighborhoods that are that low in density, specifically because they are too low density.

And we're back to the conundrum of having your cake and eating it too.

Regular people can't afford that.

So a choice has to be made.


And more Americans lean towards house/land.

which should surprise no one, given how we've been predominately building new communities in this country for the last 75 years.

[Quixote]

You can be within “walking distance” of everything you need — a quality grocery store, convenience store, bank, Verizon/AT&T/T-Mobile, UPS/FedEx/USPS, dry cleaner, tailor, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. — but need to travel along highway-wide streets with no sidewalks. What good is being within “walking distance” then if the pedestrian experience is poor and all those amenities are in a strip mall?

Being within walking distance (generally defined as 10 minutes, or a half-mile) to amenities sounds nice on paper, but you’d be lucky if even 20% of those Americans who desire such would be comfortable with the externalities concomitant with producing built environments that are actually walkable. Eliminating parking spaces in favor of wider sidewalks and perhaps protected bike lanes, sharing a building with “those people,” having your taxpayer dollars go towards investing in marginal improvements to what would still be infrequent and unreliable bus service, etc. are necessary ingredients for nurturing bona fide walkable environments. That requires a critical mass of support to affect and sustain the necessary changes in political leadership and regulations at various levels of governments, of which the 5-10% of Americans who would actually be amenable to put their money where their mouth is wouldn’t suffice because of the nation’s political structure (e.g. Electoral College), special interest groups, the sharp urban/rural divide, suburban interests within urban areas themselves, and too small of an existing “urban base” to start with. And if you can get past those hurdles, there’s no telling what kind of developments you’ll get. More horizontal skyscrapers with blank walls at street level?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

More Americans are house people according to the results of this poll.

It isn't really that many Americans are "house" people, they're "space" people. They (apparently) want lots of living space.

Unless you're doing a custom build, the newer sprawl homes are almost always horrible quality, even the high(er) end homes. It's all particle board and vinyl siding, the cheapest windows possible, etc. But they have the three-four car garages, the double-height great rooms, etc. They're basically giant open vinyl boxes. An 80's home (or earlier) is almost always higher quality.

And the fact that older homes in older suburbia tend to be significantly more expensive than the newer sprawl homes suggests that Americans might not value space over location. Apples-apples new construction infill homes in established suburbia will be at least 2x the price of sprawl housing.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Sure, some people who live in 4,000+ SF homes on a half-acre+ lots might like to have more walkable urbanism in their neighborhood, but functionally walkable urbanism doesn't exist in neighborhoods that are that low in density, specifically because they are too low density.

I immediate think of Bethesda, MD when you bring this up; which to me is the perfect blend of leafy neighborhoods, walkable downtown, transit, excellent public schools and extremely safe.

You can live in a neighborhood like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9818801,...2nP57SV527Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

and then in under 10 min, walk to an area that looks like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9810041,...cCfK1MtLcIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

And be in DC in under 30 min via the metro.

[Crawford]

Bethesda is pretty nice. It's basically the most expensive corner of the DC area, though. And to me, it's more a vote for urban living than sprawl living (though it certainly has elements of both). It's more like streetcar suburbia with a supersized core, and massive upgrade in affluence. The only possible negative is it feels a little less lived-in and a little more generic than its older equivalents in NY, Philly and Boston.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Bethesda is pretty nice. It's basically the most expensive corner of the DC area, though. And to me, it's more a vote for urban living than sprawl living (though it certainly has elements of both). It's more like streetcar suburbia with a supersized core, and massive upgrade in affluence. The only possible negative is it feels a little less lived-in and a little more generic than its older equivalents in NY, Philly and Boston.

Agreed I lived in Bethesda for a bit, and loved it. I'm certainly not an advocate for suburban sprawl hell, areas like Bethesda, Rye, Winnetka are my ideal at this stage of life.

Bethesda essentially takes the best of urban neighborhoods, like walkability, without the negatives like public school issues, crime, and overall local government dysfunciton.

[SnowFire]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Agreed I lived in Bethesda for a bit, and loved it. I'm certainly not an advocate for suburban sprawl hell, areas like Bethesda, Rye, Winnetka are my ideal at this stage of life.

Bethesda essentially takes the best of urban neighborhoods, like walkability, without the negatives like public school issues, crime, and overall local government dysfunciton.

do you actually know how out of touch you sound?

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by SnowFire

do you actually know how out of touch you sound?

please enlighten me champ

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

I immediate think of Bethesda, MD when you bring this up; which to me is the perfect blend of leafy neighborhoods, walkable downtown, transit, excellent public schools and extremely safe.

You can live in a neighborhood like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9818801,...2nP57SV527Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

and then in under 10 min, walk to an area that looks like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9810041,...cCfK1MtLcIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

except that bethesda is quite large at ~13 sq. miles, and the VAST majority of the SFH areas are nowhere close to being within a 10 minute walk to that town center.

it's an intersting quirk of zoning for those lucky few who happen to live in the limited number of large lot houses that back up to the town center, but i gaurantee you that most bethesdians who live in the twisty street SFH areas of town are not walking to restaurants or a grocery store on a regular basis.

[SnowFire]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

please enlighten me champ

public school issues, crime, and overall local government dysfunction

just say "be rich" and be done with it.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

except that bethesda is quite large at ~13 sq. miles, and the VAST majority of the SFH areas are nowhere close to being within a 10 minute walk to that town center.

it's an intersting quirk of zoning for those lucky few who happen to live in the limited number of large lot houses that back up to the town center, but i gaurantee you that most bethesdians who live in the twisty street SFH areas of town are not walking to restaurants or a grocery store on a regular basis.

Right, Bethesda is large (much of it I believe unincorporated) but the point still stands, there are neighborhoods walkable to Downtown Bethesda in every direction, sure people use their cars too, but so what? Walking is an option for many who live within a half mile radius of town. It's one of the best (if not the best) suburban downtown's in the Country, and has fairly leafy streets with 1/4 acre + lots. As you go south of Bethesda the lot's get tighter as you get closer to Chevy Chase MD/DC, which then blends into NW DC neighborhoods, which are also great, but mean dealing with DC government/schools.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by SnowFire

just say "be rich" and be done with it.

Sure. Being successful helps, is that a shocker to you? Life isn't fair.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the dysfunction of city governments (Chicago Public Schools, for example), which is a big reason people leave cities.

[SnowFire]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Sure. Being successful helps, is that a shocker to you? Life isn't fair.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the dysfunction of city governments (Chicago Public Schools, for example), which is a big reason people leave cities.

you dont see how being rich helps you with the public schools not being good issue?

PUBLIC schools?

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by SnowFire

I mean i would love a mansion with a yard on top of a skyscraper like in spiderman, but not a billionaire.

we really need more of these: https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-penthouse-house-for-sale-in-printers-row/10802507/

[SnowFire]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

we really need more of these: https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-penthouse-house-for-sale-in-printers-row/10802507/

Wow i could do things with that place.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/714-S-Dearborn-St-FLOOR-9-Chicago-IL-60605/3871508_zpid/?