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  #16961  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 6:45 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Just read the stories about the newly opened REM. They have buses and drivers on standby by design in case REM shuts down (which it has).
In case we've already forgotten, OC Transpo held off on changing routes over until several weeks after the launch of the LRT. Major issues with doors and computer systems didn't start happening until after the transition over the new bus network.

It's understandable how door issues cropped up after the switch over, but the computer problems materializing was unexpected.

Quote:
Ottawa had R1 planned since 2019, but did not have buses or drivers available without removing service (randomly) from the rest of the bus network. The end result is an unreliable transit network.
Like roger1818 said, it's not clear that the parallel service for the REM will be maintained. Those buses are being operated by STL, which probably does not want to keep buses on standby in perpetuity.

More importantly, is there any city anywhere that keeps a dedicated bus fleet for this kind of purpose? No.

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What was worse, the city sold off buses within days of the opening of Confed Line and offered packages that had too many drivers leave the transit system. We have had a driver shortage ever since.
As I've said, they kept the transitway operating for weeks after the launch. Those buses were kept for weeks, not days, after the opening.

In addition, OC Transpo was already dealing with an operator shortage before the LRT had launched. That's one of the reasons there was so much pressure to launch the system.
     
     
  #16962  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 6:46 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
It really ought to continue past Hurdman as well.
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Baseline BRT will likely go to Hurdman, at least on one branch (there will likely be another branch that continues on Hurdman/Walkley).
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Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs View Post
Didn't the Baseline BRT plans go Hurdman to Bayshore?
The completed design is only from Bayshore to Hurdman and only the segment from Algonquin to Hurdman is slated to be built in the next few years (theoretically anyway... there's still no funding).

The stretch from Mooney's Bay [Station] to Elmvale is marked out in the TMP, but there's no completed design for it.
     
     
  #16963  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 8:24 PM
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That's the idea.

Here's another idea... why the frig would we even need redundancy if we had a transit system that worked?
Name a rapid transit system that never has any issues and doesn't need maintenance? I'm not aware of any. Granted Line 1 is much less reliable than it should be, but having some level of redundancy in Transit is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
Literally sounds like the equivalent of just one more lane bro.

This is only a complicated matter because we made it so.
If the only purpose of these Baseline/Carling routes was as a backup for the Confederation Line, then I would agree, but they serve their own primary purpose. They just have the have the added benefit of providing some (limited) level of redundancy.

Would you say that Montreal should not have built both the Orange and Green lines, since they run parallel to each other downtown a few blocks apart? They provide far more redundancy than anything proposed in Ottawa, but they also each serve their own purpose.
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  #16964  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 1:15 AM
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Transpo boss 'very confident' LRT service will resume Aug. 14
There will be trial runs of trains in the coming days to ensure the system is ready, Renée Amilcar said Thursday.

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 03, 2023 • Last updated 40 minutes ago • 2 minute read


Ottawa’s transit services manager, Renée Amilcar, says she’s “very confident” that a gradual return to train service will begin on Aug. 14, four weeks after the LRT Confederation Line was shut down.

“I’m confident, based on the the work done by RTG (the Rideau Transit Group), Alstom and OC Transpo, that we have a solid plan to restore rail service,” Amilcar told reporters Thursday in an update.

“We’re working very hard, and today we are very confident.”

There will be trial runs of trains in the coming days to ensure the system is ready, she said. Crews are working on making adjustments to repositioning of restraining rails on the curves on the $2.1-billion Confederation Line, which was shut down on July 17 after excess grease was found on the axle of one light rail vehicle during a routine inspection.

The original plan was to return to limited service on Monday, using single cars, but that plan was cancelled on July 28 to allow a risk assessment to be conducted to protect the rails and the vehicles.

Restraining rails are a passive safety device to help keep trains from derailing. The goal in this case was to prevent the vehicle wheels from touching the safety rails at all by increasing the gap between the back wheel of each train vehicle and the restraining rail, preventing stress on the wheel hub assembly.

RTG, which has the contract to maintain the system, hired Atkins, a design, engineering and consultancy firm affiliated with Montreal-based SNC-Lavalin.

Repositioning the restraining rails means moving the rails about one or two millimetres, but it’s an exacting process, Amilcar said. The restraining rails are held in place by brackets that are bolted into the ground. The brackets must be moved and placed in new positions.

“You have to understand we’re talking about steel rails here,” RTG chief executive officer Nicolas Truchons said. “We need specific equipment, specific machines. And we have to make minute adjustments. We have to make sure we reposition the rail in the right place.”

At this point it’s unclear how many of the 16 curves in the rail line will need to be adjusted.

Meanwhile, OC Transpo is monitoring the possible return of the Rolling Thunder motorcycle rally on Saturday. The City of Ottawa and Ottawa police have warned there may be brief traffic delays on Highway 417 and in downtown Ottawa as the motorcyclists travel from Arnprior to the National War Memorial around 12 noon.

Right now, there are no planned changes to R1 replacement bus service downtown on Saturday, said Joel Lemeiux, manager of the transit operations control centre.

“We’re working closely with the police and traffic services on the situation,” he said.

“Nothing indicates there will be a lot of disruption causes by the possible demonstration, but we’ve put in place plans just in case, and we’ll be communicating with our passengers if we have to change the stops.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...confident-lrt-service-will-resume-aug-14
     
     
  #16965  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 1:22 AM
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The pressure is on to compensate transit users for weeks of frustration. But how?
Ottawa's previous city council gave transit users free fares for a month after a lengthy LRT shutdown. Why not now?

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 03, 2023 • 6 minute read


If all goes according to plan, Ottawa’s LRT will be back on the rails in mid-August and the transit system will gradually be heading for normalcy.

By that time, transit users will have endured four weeks of long commutes, crowded buses and frustration.

Since the beginning of the shutdown on July 17, Renée Amilcar, the city’s general manager of transit services, has been under pressure to say what will be done to compensate riders for the inconvenience. After all, in December 2021, free fares were offered in response to two derailments on the Confederation Line LRT, including one that kept the system down for nearly two months.

But the question of what compensation to offer is a political decision in the hands of city councillors. And it will likely be Aug. 23 at the next city council meeting when the subject will be debated.

Here’s what is known so far — and what is not.

Q: Why doesn’t the city just give transit users free fares for a month?

A: There’s a range of possibilities, from free ridership for everyone for a given period of time to no compensation at all.

The question is what is fair, and whether there should be “blanket” compensation for everyone. Some transit users were late to work and were docked pay, for example. Others incurred extra daycare costs because they were late to pick up their children.

But it would be hard to create a mechanism that separates transit users according to how much inconvenience each one experienced.

“A lot of people won’t be affected by this,” said Barrhaven East Coun. Wilson Lo, a member of the transit commission. He’s open to hearing ideas about how to compensate people, but he’s not in favour of blanket compensation.

River Ward Coun. Riley Brockington, also a member of the city’s transit commission, believes that if there is compensation, it will be global in nature. In the meantime, if people have evidence that they have been out-of-pocket because of the shutdown, OC Transpo will listen, he said.

Q: The previous city council voted to give transit users free fares for a month in December 2021. Why not now?

A: It’s one option. The estimated cost of free fares in 2021 was $7.2 million, with the money coming from funds the city was withholding from RTG in the wake of the derailments.

But the financial context is much different now, said Glen Gower, the chair of the city’s transit commission. Tops on the list of constraints is the $39 million deficit in the transit budget this spring. With a financial hole that big, there’s not a lot of wiggle room.

“The concern is that we have built a budget with a $39 million deficit, and we’re talking about a fare reduction. That’s not free,” said River Ward Coun. Laine Johnson.

Q: Where will the money to cover the $39 million deficit come from?

A: That’s also unclear. The city was hoping for funding from the province or the federal government, but there was no money for Ottawa transit deficits in either the provincial or the federal budget this year.

“We have an ongoing request to other levels of government. They’re very aware of the deficit situation,” said Gower.

Ridership is still a question. In May, Line 1 ridership was 4.8 million, compared to 7.2 million in May 2019, before the pandemic. But the numbers have been rebounding this spring, said Gower. Figures for the period including the LRT shutdown will be available later this month.

There are other concerns including hidden deferred costs, such as not buying new buses to replace ageing vehicles. How that has strained the budget will only become obvious when they become inconvenient and costly, said Kari Glynes Elliott, one of the founders of Ottawa Transit Riders.

Q: How much would the city lose if transit were free for a month?

A: Revenue from transit fares comes to about $7 to $8 million a month. When the LRT isn’t running, the city isn’t paying $4 to $5 million a month to the Rideau Transit Group (RTG), which has the contract for maintaining the LRT system.

Subtract the RTG payment from lost fare revenue and that suggests it would only cost around $3 million to give riders free fares for a month. But the equation is not as simple as that, said Gower. There are costs behind some of the measures taken to replace train service, including overtime, customer service workers and signage.

It may take some time before there can be a full accounting, but these numbers will be available in the coming weeks, he said.

“It will give us the framework. We’re proceeding with an open mind and a lot of caution, given the strain we’re under financially.”

There is also the question of whether savings from this past month — if there are any — would be better spent on improvIng service on busy routes and investing in ParaTranspo.

“Perhaps the best compensation would be to double down on the commitment to ensure OC Transpo is a reliable service,” said Gower.

Q: Does compensation money have to come from the city transit budget?

A: Not necessarily. There are other options, but none of them are an easy source of money to fund compensation for riders. Budgets in all city departments are already stretched, said Gower. There’s also a general reserve fund, but it’s not well-advised to pull money from that fund because the money is held for emergencies such as tornado response.

Q: What about adding the cost to municipal tax bills?

A: There’s a reluctance to raise taxes. In July 2021, a consultant’s report concluded that free transit would cost the owner of a home valued at $415,000 an extra $482 a year in property taxes. Both former mayor Jim Watson and current Mayor Mark Sutcliffe, then a mayoral candidate, balked at the idea of free transit.

“If you’re not paying at the fare box, they you’re going to pay for it on your property tax bill and a 13-per cent hit on your property taxes, from my perspective, is not a wise decision,” said Watson then.

But others argue that reliable free transit should be seen as a public good, like libraries and emergency services.

Free Transit Ottawa is advocating for free fares for everyone, starting with those on social assistance.

Nick Grover, a member of the group’s executive, argues that public transit can be both free and good. “If more was spent on the system, it would attract more users.”

If taxes were increased by $400 to $500, free transit would replace $1,200 spent annually on a bus pass or $10,000 in car expenses, he said.

Anecdotally at least, more people are commuting by car because of glitches in public transit. Once people start driving, it’s hard to stop. And that has a cost to everyone as roadways become congested and no one can travel conveniently, said Johnson.

“It’s all connected. The alternative is a disaster,” she said.

Q: Will free or reduced fares win back the confidence of transit users?

A: Probably not. People will likely reserve judgement based on the performance of the system — and be hypersensitive to any blips in the system after the LRT re-launch.

“Most of our members have been blunt that they want transit that works, and they’re willing to pay for it,” said Elliott. “Free transit that doesn’t work doesn’t serve us.”

A financial incentive might help to take the sting out of it, but users may not even return to transit, even if it is free, said Brockington.

“We will never be regarded as a reliable transit service until we provide a consistent service,” said Brockington, who believes it will take at least a year, including winter.

People might appreciate the gesture, but it won’t increase trust, said Lo.

“The best advertising for transit is word-of-mouth.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...t-users-for-weeks-of-frustration-but-how
     
     
  #16966  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 1:45 AM
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To build public trust for the LRT, all councilors and the Mayor should take only public transit for all transportation within the city for city related business for a year.
     
     
  #16967  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
To build public trust for the LRT, all councilors and the Mayor should take only public transit for all transportation within the city for city related business for a year.
I'd prefer that over free transit.

Free transit solves nothing. I'd love permanently reduced fares, but not free transit. That said, I'd had a very different experienced for others as I can drive to work when the train is down. Not everyone has that privilege.
     
     
  #16968  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 1:39 PM
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Troublesome LRT restraining rails are on the move. What are they?
Safety device is rubbing against wheels in a way that can damage train parts

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: Aug 04, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago




Work has begun to move the safety rails that guard against derailments along Ottawa's light rail transit line, according to OC Transpo.

The rails will move just one or two millimetres, a shift the light-rail transit system's builder and maintainer say should help ensure the heavy metal bars no longer damage parts of the train.

The move is yet another measure to mitigate against the risk of another system failure until a permanent fix is ready — and a necessary fix before service can relaunch.

Restraining rails are a fixture on all sorts of rail infrastructure, and experts say the consistent contact that Rideau Transit Maintenance has been observing between the rails and the train wheels is not meant to happen.

The issue is related to problems that caused the most recent damage to a bearing, and two earlier derailments.

What is a restraining rail?

Richard Holder, the city of Ottawa's director of engineering services, calls the rails a "passive safety device" located within curves. They run parallel to the rail at a distance of about two inches.

"The only times that we would expect contact [between the rail and the back of the wheel] would be if there was a risk of derailment," he told reporters earlier this week.

"If a train, for whatever reason, was travelling around a corner and the outside wheels started to climb the outside rail, at that point there would be in contact with a restraining rail and a derailment would be prevented."

That climbing happens because of the force exerted on a train as it rounds a curve at high speed.

Renée Amilcar, the general manager for transit services, likens it to a driver accelerating a car around the corner and unbalancing the vehicle to the point that two of its wheels lift off the road.

"It's normal with your car," she said to media. "We want all the wheels to be on the rail ... the restraining rail will force the high rail, as we call it, to stay on the rail."

Why are Ottawa's restraining rails a problem?

The problem with Ottawa's restraining rails is related to a broader issue with the system that has been widely reported on for years: tight curves in the system's east end.

The city highlighted eight problematic areas, particularly those located near Hurdman station.



Some of these curves were identified by Mott MacDonald, a British firm hired by the city of Ottawa, as areas that have suffered from wheel corrugation — "a periodic wear of the rail surface into peaks and troughs" — and rolling contact fatigue, where the rail head becomes cracked due to "contact forces between the wheel and the rail."

Little or no corrugation was found in areas with straight track or shallow curves.

The 2022 report warned of premature deterioration of the light-rail vehicles and "increased maintenance."

Last year's public inquiry into various issues with the rail system also identified concerns over the "rail inclination" or degree of sloping at the curves.

When asked about that issue on Thursday, Holder said there's "no risk of derailment" because of the current wheel-rail interface.



Why wasn't this contact issue identified before?

Contact with the restraining rail has been a known issue for a while, but was only identified as a pressing concern in a recent safety note from trainmaker Alstom and system builder Rideau Transit Group.

The city and RTG have said the issue is not a design defect, but a problem with maintenance.

"That is mainly due to the fact that we've been running the system for three years and all systems go through a process of wear, both of the wheels and of the rails," said Holder. "We're currently dealing with that new situation."

Nicholas Truchon, RTG's chief executive officer, said this will not become a recurring issue, because the last two weeks has helped "clarify" parameters that will allow maintenance crews to more effectively make adjustments.

Why will it take ten days to move them?

The restraining rails are now being moved by a millimetre or two, a process that's set to take a full ten days.

That means teams will need to begin testing trains before work on the rails has been completed, if the city wants to meet its goal of reopening the Confederation Line to passengers on August 14.

"It's true that it seems relatively easy to move something one or two millimetres," said Enrique Martinez Asensio, RTM general manager. "But the reality is that the restraining rail is a very heavy steel profile that is bolted to the frame components of the track."

Specialized machines are required and crews need to be trained, he said.
"It's just a few millimetres, but we are talking about a lot of work."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/what-are-lrt-restraining-rails-1.6927236
     
     
  #16969  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 2:09 PM
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I really hope they aren't rushing this fix. Everytime they rush a solution it only erodes trust when there's a failure down the road.
     
     
  #16970  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawa Citizen View Post
River Ward Coun. Riley Brockington, also a member of the city’s transit commission, believes that if there is compensation, it will be global in nature. In the meantime, if people have evidence that they have been out-of-pocket because of the shutdown, OC Transpo will listen, he said.
what?
     
     
  #16971  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 2:30 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I'd prefer that over free transit.

Free transit solves nothing. I'd love permanently reduced fares, but not free transit. That said, I'd had a very different experienced for others as I can drive to work when the train is down. Not everyone has that privilege.
Free transit is a nice gesture and it doesn't necessarily cost the whole foregone revenue. Transit systems seem to think they are a utility with totally inelastic demand but some people do decide when to take transit. There are still a ton of people who have never been on the train in Ottawa so it does attract new riders and some of them will stay at least occasionally.
     
     
  #16972  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Free transit is a nice gesture and it doesn't necessarily cost the whole foregone revenue. Transit systems seem to think they are a utility with totally inelastic demand but some people do decide when to take transit. There are still a ton of people who have never been on the train in Ottawa so it does attract new riders and some of them will stay at least occasionally.
I somehow doubt that anyone who's never taken transit before will start during a free period following yet another shut-down. Those who've never used it likely will continue to avoid it.

Might be worth having a free week once the system has been reliable for a decent amount of time and Stage 2 (pick a branch) opens.
     
     
  #16973  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 7:20 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Free transit is a nice gesture and it doesn't necessarily cost the whole foregone revenue. Transit systems seem to think they are a utility with totally inelastic demand but some people do decide when to take transit. There are still a ton of people who have never been on the train in Ottawa so it does attract new riders and some of them will stay at least occasionally.
They could do something like free transit on every weekend next summer, to generate system knowledge/reintroduce it to people who haven't used it, and as an acknowledgement that things have sucked.
     
     
  #16974  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
To build public trust for the LRT, all councilors and the Mayor should take only public transit for all transportation within the city for city related business for a year.
I like the idea but it wouldn't work for the rural councillors who live outside of the urban transit area. At a minimum Sutcliffe should hand in his driver's license for a year and use only either transit or active transportation for a year.
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  #16975  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I like the idea but it wouldn't work for the rural councillors who live outside of the urban transit area. At a minimum Sutcliffe should hand in his driver's license for a year and use only either transit or active transportation for a year.
The rural ones could ride to the nearest park and ride....
     
     
  #16976  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 10:44 PM
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We should stop giving the Council free parking passes at the very least. Now would've been a good time to move that motion in Council. And let them keep free OC Transpo passes though.
     
     
  #16977  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2023, 11:31 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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I like the idea but it wouldn't work for the rural councillors who live outside of the urban transit area. At a minimum Sutcliffe should hand in his driver's license for a year and use only either transit or active transportation for a year.
He didn't run on being a champion of transit. Why would people expect differently in office?

We get the leaders we deserve. This town absolutely deserves Sutcliffe.
     
     
  #16978  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2023, 1:37 AM
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We should stop giving the Council free parking passes at the very least. Now would've been a good time to move that motion in Council. And let them keep free OC Transpo passes though.
The fact that the ones that would need to approve that are the ones directly affected by it tells me it isn't going to happen.
     
     
  #16979  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2023, 6:59 AM
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There's finally one washroom that's not out of order at Hurdman, first time in a year maybe ? But there's no toilet seat however lol. If we can't even keep the most basic things like washrooms, water fountains, escalators and suicide hotline phones in working order, something tells me that the whole line was going to be doomed no matter the technology used.
     
     
  #16980  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2023, 1:11 PM
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There's finally one washroom that's not out of order at Hurdman, first time in a year maybe ? But there's no toilet seat however lol. If we can't even keep the most basic things like washrooms, water fountains, escalators and suicide hotline phones in working order, something tells me that the whole line was going to be doomed no matter the technology used.
With so many closures and greatly reduced ridership, is there a successful business case for coffee shops/convenience stores at even the busiest Confed Line stations?
     
     
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