1081 Carling Ave | 57+89m | 16+27f | Approved

[yotajoe]

Someone posted this in the Ottawa subreddit and my head hurts now after reading the comments.

I understand there are decades of work put into this farm but can we not shrink it's footprint to allow shadows in parts of its property?

This farm is so odd to me, I don't know how much research is actually benefiting our country. We've been farming for centuries, I doubt they'll come up with some break through idea on how to grow corn better at this point.

Anyways Ottawa needs housing and it needs it fast. If you don't want to accommodate it around the farm then the zoning and height restrictions should be less strict away from these areas, such as downtown and around the transit stations.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I don't think the acres of fields are 'world class' anything to a casual observer. Maybe an agricultural researcher or a farm afficionado. To most of us it's just a peculiarity I think. The Arboretum/Observatory/Museum/Fletcher are amazing but could be so much more as part of my vision.

True, and should form part of a Botanical Garden.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

True, and should form part of a Botanical Garden.

Oh absolutely, with extensive greenhouses open year round like in Montreal. That would be incredibly popular on winter days.

Mods: Sorry in advance for all the work if you have to move all my Farm Dreams to another thread

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't think any of us are scientists who work in the agriculture industry. We don't know what's at stake. Maybe it is time to have a serious conversation on the future of the Central Experimental Farm. We could look at finishing the multi year studies, but start gradually moving the experiments elsewhere, like the Greenbelt or further out.

Long term, it might be worth considering redeveloping much of the farm, once all research moves out, or create a urban farming zone that provides food for locals.

For now, I don't think we can outright reject the arguments from actual scientist who work on this research. It's not necessarily NIMBYism, but there life's work.

Well said. I can imagine food research continuing to be critical because of our changing climate - I can think of few things more important in the coming decades, but I also wonder if they can start transitioning some of it to a more rural area. I understand having a long running history with decades of growth records is part of the value, but you can start gathering data in a new location to develop a new set of records.

Needless to say, I don't know all the factors... if the impacted piece of land is really critical for food research, we certainly also have lots of other places where taller buildings could be built around Ottawa.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by yotajoe

Someone posted this in the Ottawa subreddit and my head hurts now after reading the comments.

I understand there are decades of work put into this farm but can we not shrink it's footprint to allow shadows in parts of its property?

This farm is so odd to me, I don't know how much research is actually benefiting our country. We've been farming for centuries, I doubt they'll come up with some break through idea on how to grow corn better at this point.

Anyways Ottawa needs housing and it needs it fast. If you don't want to accommodate it around the farm then the zoning and height restrictions should be less strict away from these areas, such as downtown and around the transit stations.

This is where they invented the frost-resistant wheat, among other things, that is grown in the Prairies and provides a source of food for millions. It isn't as if the farm isn't actually doing any relevant research - you just don't know about what they're doing. Agriculture and agricultural research is important for all societies. We take it for granted, but most produce we eat every day was researched and bread to produce greater yields (to the extent that many, like corn, are unrecognizable from what they used to be).

Frankly, we have many more place in Ottawa we could be putting highrises (such as places closer to mass transit and in central, mixed-use areas).

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Jay31

if the impacted piece of land is really critical for food research, we certainly also have lots of other places where taller buildings could be built around Ottawa.

Not really, not on the terms of just how much housing Ottawa needs, and with the city limiting anything over 9 stories to around MTSA/HUB areas and along "Mainstreets".

Limiting the edge of the farm to that 9 stories removes a significant # of possible units, that will need to be made up somewhere. (my suggestion is raise the height limit to 9 stories throughout the edge communities)

As this argument would kill anything along, Carling, Baseline, Merivale, and parts of Fisher along the edge. Of which there are more then a few projects in the works that would be affected if this "argument" is accepted.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

This is where they invented the frost-resistant wheat, among other things, that is grown in the Prairies and provides a source of food for millions. It isn't as if the farm isn't actually doing any relevant research - you just don't know about what they're doing. Agriculture and agricultural research is important for all societies. We take it for granted, but most produce we eat every day was researched and bread to produce greater yields (to the extent that many, like corn, are unrecognizable from what they used to be).

Frankly, we have many more place in Ottawa we could be putting highrises (such as places closer to mass transit and in central, mixed-use areas).

Hate to do this, but.... Frankly, we have many more places in Canada where we could be putting crucial agricultural research that feeds millions (such as almost anywhere outside of the core of our fourth largest city and national capital).

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Urbanarchit

This is where they invented the frost-resistant wheat, among other things, that is grown in the Prairies and provides a source of food for millions. It isn't as if the farm isn't actually doing any relevant research - you just don't know about what they're doing. Agriculture and agricultural research is important for all societies. We take it for granted, but most produce we eat every day was researched and bread to produce greater yields (to the extent that many, like corn, are unrecognizable from what they used to be).

Frankly, we have many more place in Ottawa we could be putting highrises (such as places closer to mass transit and in central, mixed-use areas).

And this research could be done somewhere else other then the central area of a major city.....like say the greenbelt research farm for which they should have data for as well or has that site been abandoned and maybe it can be turned into the thousands of homes your arguing shouldn't be allowed to ever exist in urban Ottawa.

[Ottawacurious]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

And this research could be done somewhere else other then the central area of a major city.....like say the greenbelt research farm for which they should have data for as well or has that site been abandoned and maybe it can be turned into the thousands of homes your arguing shouldn't be allowed to ever exist in urban Ottawa.

Agriculture Canada does perform research all across Canada. Last I remember they had 20-25 research centers in various provinces. So, this isn't their only site nor should it be. The Central Farm's mandate is to "to develop new and improved spring and winter wheat, oats, barley, corn and short-season soybeans varieties and investigate agronomic practices and technologies for eastern Canada."

There is a strategic plan for science for this farm focusing on these areas:
1. cereals and pulses/ oilseeds (crop improvement)
2. agro-ecosystem resilience (more technology focused on to understand what is happening on the fields/farms/watersheds)
3. biodiversity and bioresources (looking at the risks associated to biodiversity - too many bugs, invasive species, plant diseases, funghi, impact on regulatory compliance)

What I was suggesting earlier is that with all these really smart folks in this area, why not capitalize on that and look at expanding the mandate to include urban farming/agriculture. Can we get more from our foods that we can grow in our cities. I think it aligns really well with their overall strategic plan; however, I do think that the plan could focus a bit more on that urban/city small scale farming aspect.

[roger1818]

You have to love it when lay people think they know more about science than scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. It is good to educate oneself and not just be sheep, but it bothers me when people dismiss expert opinions off hand on topics they don't actually know anything about, with false assumptions or without any real evidence at all.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by roger1818

You have to love it when lay people think they know more about science than scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. It is good to educate oneself and not just be sheep, but it bothers me when people dismiss expert opinions off hand on topics they don't actually know anything about, with false assumptions or without any real evidence at all.

Exactly this. As much as I'd like to see taller buildings all along Carling Ave, I understand and appreciate the importance of long-term crop research and the impacts that diminished sunlight at all times of the day will have on that. There are many places we could and should put taller buildings in Ottawa, but there aren't any other places that the farm could go without affecting its programs. Remember, the Central Experimental Farm was here long before all the density around it appeared. And the reason that its central location is valued is that it isn't near any other production agricultural fields that could contaminate it with errant seeds, fertilizers or pesticides, which would adversely influence the data it generates. The farm is where it is for a good reason, and its neighbours should be thankful that it provides nice views, reduces the heat island effect in the surrounding neighbourhoods, and is accessible to the public as a casual recreational space.

[RideauRat]

Originally Posted by roger1818

You have to love it when lay people think they know more about science than scientists, doctors, engineers, etc. It is good to educate oneself and not just be sheep, but it bothers me when people dismiss expert opinions off hand on topics they don't actually know anything about, with false assumptions or without any real evidence at all.

Not one person has claimed or even had the tone that would insinuate they know more than any professional here.
just a discussion group... discussing?

[originalmuffins]

If the scientists/specialists really think this will make an impact and cause more damage than not, and has no NIMBY influence then we can make do without another 27 floor development. It is definitely more than okay to let this one be rejected if that is the case.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by RideauRat

Not one person has claimed or even had the tone that would insinuate they know more than any professional here.
just a discussion group... discussing?

I won't call anyone out, but people on here have been saying things like, its location is inappropriate and the history is unimportant and we could just move it somewhere else and start to build history there. It is fine to discuss and question things, but those weren't questions but statements. Maybe people were just wording things poorly, but that can lead to misinformation being spread.

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

If the scientists/specialists really think this will make an impact and cause more damage than not, and has no NIMBY influence then we can make do without another 27 floor development. It is definitely more than okay to let this one be rejected if that is the case.

Food security will be a major issue over the coming decades. Research that leads to better yields on farms across the country is far more important than a single 27 floor development. Granted we need to be sure that these opinions are based on science and not just NIMBY influence, but if there is broad (not necessarily unanimous) consensus amongst scientists, and not just one opinion, then that should help alleviate that concern.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Hate to do this, but.... Frankly, we have many more places in Canada where we could be putting crucial agricultural research that feeds millions (such as almost anywhere outside of the core of our fourth largest city and national capital).

Not diachronic research, though.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Ottawacurious

There's an opportunity here too. Why not work with the developer and look at green building on skyscrapers and ability to grow foods and plants there. I get the original mission is farms but why not open the mission to include farming in a city - be it balcony or rooftop gardens. Yes, not their normal research but certainly relevant. Tie it in with the green builds architecture at Carleton. Develop/cultivate (see what I did there) that relationship and grow new areas of development.

That could be interesting. Start researching the value of vertical farming. Use sustainable methods to water and power the facilities. It would be a logical evolution of the Farm and its research.

Originally Posted by yotajoe

Someone posted this in the Ottawa subreddit and my head hurts now after reading the comments.

I understand there are decades of work put into this farm but can we not shrink it's footprint to allow shadows in parts of its property?

This farm is so odd to me, I don't know how much research is actually benefiting our country. We've been farming for centuries, I doubt they'll come up with some break through idea on how to grow corn better at this point.

Anyways Ottawa needs housing and it needs it fast. If you don't want to accommodate it around the farm then the zoning and height restrictions should be less strict away from these areas, such as downtown and around the transit stations.

We've been farming for centuries, but we are transitioning into a very different World with the threat of climate change.

I agree much of the Farm is probably no longer suitable for research due to urban development, but they need to at least finish the research they have ongoing. I'd be curious how many projects and how long each have left.

Originally Posted by Harley613

Mods: Sorry in advance for all the work if you have to move all my Farm Dreams to another thread

No worries. Still kind of on topic. I might try to clean it up a bit at a later date.

[RideauRat]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I won't call anyone out, but people on here have been saying things like, its location is inappropriate and the history is unimportant and we could just move it somewhere else and start to build history there. It is fine to discuss and question things, but those weren't questions but statements. Maybe people were just wording things poorly, but that can lead to misinformation being spread.

fair enough, I agree misinformation is dangerous

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Not really, not on the terms of just how much housing Ottawa needs, and with the city limiting anything over 9 stories to around MTSA/HUB areas and along "Mainstreets".

Limiting the edge of the farm to that 9 stories removes a significant # of possible units, that will need to be made up somewhere. (my suggestion is raise the height limit to 9 stories throughout the edge communities)

As this argument would kill anything along, Carling, Baseline, Merivale, and parts of Fisher along the edge. Of which there are more then a few projects in the works that would be affected if this "argument" is accepted.

This is just being hyperbolic.. there are loads of parking lots, dead strip malls and tear down ready structures along all of those streets and every other "stroad" in Ottawa that aren't adjacent to the experimental farm, which there is only one of. As others have said, I would defer to those running the farm on the impact of this. Unlike nimbys worried about "neighbourhood character", I can't see any other reason the farm would object to this if it weren't going to have an impact - it's not like the people working on the farm are living beside the buildings. All I can say, is that food research is one of the few things that would trump housing development going forward. We gotta eat, and our growing conditions are changing more than ever.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Jay31

This is just being hyperbolic.. there are loads of parking lots, dead strip malls and tear down ready structures along all of those streets and every other "stroad" in Ottawa that aren't adjacent to the experimental farm, which there is only one of.

Exactly, including thousands of units already approved or likely to be approved, some of which are more Taggart projects.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Jay31

This is just being hyperbolic.. there are loads of parking lots, dead strip malls and tear down ready structures along all of those streets and every other "stroad" in Ottawa that aren't adjacent to the experimental farm, which there is only one of. As others have said, I would defer to those running the farm on the impact of this. Unlike nimbys worried about "neighbourhood character", I can't see any other reason the farm would object to this if it weren't going to have an impact - it's not like the people working on the farm are living beside the buildings. All I can say, is that food research is one of the few things that would trump housing development going forward. We gotta eat, and our growing conditions are changing more than ever.

Yeah, I get that done here don't really grasp how bad housing is in Ottawa, or how severely the city restricts where any growth can go (nvm, that some here argue 12 stories is too much for around a MTSA)

So as it stands the acceptance of this argument from agri-Canada will result in the possible cancellation of over 1218 units of housing amongst just 1081 Carling and 780 baseline rd.

And I'm fine if we accept this argument but if it is then the neighborhoods around it must accept the consequence, and that consequence is the removal of zoning restrictions to allow mid-rise throughout their neighborhoods. At those losses that will require ~19 other 9 story (62 units from the 1110 Fischer dev) towers to replace them. Cause somewhere else isn't where the demand is.

P.S this exact argument is being used against 780 baseline as per the "as we heard it report"