Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Does the information you draw from indicate what flights are cancelled? It would be interesting to know.

Cancelled for today:
AC8002 MONTREAL
PD2202 TORONTO-CITY
PD2246 TORONTO-CITY
AC8871 WASHINGTON, REAGAN
AC461 TORONTO
AC465 TORONTO - replaced by AC1593

So we're now up to 6 CXX on the day.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

DL maybe. I doubt YOW can support KLM and AF. Better for AF to just expand service and go daily to eventually double daily. They are one company. No point supporting multiple brands in a market like YOW.

Double daily CDG I think's a pipe dream, at least in the next 10 years. Beyond the 789, there's still the 772 and 77W (including the high density configuration) that would have to be achieved first.

Agree though that KL to AMS is also highly unlikely given AMS is slot capped. KL would have to reduce frequencies elsewhere to accommodate YOW.

Getting back LHR followed closely by getting FRA back should be the next priorities I'd think. FRA also has Condor as a possibility.

[Tesladom]

Montreal has 9 flights to Paris today (8x CDG and 1 Orly)

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I don’t see an obvious such article, but if you use iOS/Safari, go to the paywalled article, and select “Show Reader” in Safari’s menu…magic usually happens.

Doing this with this article:
https://obj.ca/ottawa-airport-authority-studying-potential-expansion-of-yow-terminal/

Apparently the peak times at YOW are full. Hopefully YOW will have the backbone to start replacing other airlines or give priority to Porter moving forward if they need to. Didn’t make YOW a priority? Then you don’t get priority slots/gate space is how it should be. Probably not great airport-airline relations wise but someone at some point needs to stick it to AC and WS and make room for PD.

[YOWflier]

^ It’s not personal it’s just business. YOW could eventually forge an agreement with PD where they fix certain costs for PD and give them preferential terminal treatment in exchange for commitments by and targets for PD in terms of new destinations, new frequencies, and traffic flow through YOW. Basically an appropriately scaled version of an agreement like AC has with GTAA.

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Montreal has 9 flights to Paris today (8x CDG and 1 Orly)

That’s great! Here’s the right spot for you to discuss that.
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254988

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

^ It’s not personal it’s just business. YOW could eventually forge an agreement with PD where they fix certain costs for PD and give them preferential terminal treatment in exchange for commitments by and targets for PD in terms of new destinations, new frequencies, and traffic flow through YOW. Basically an appropriately scaled version of an agreement like AC has with GTAA.

Very true, but sometimes business is personal, and from what I understood by the article (reading between the lines), AC and WS’ flights to their hubs are hindering good slots/gate space for airlines prioritizing YOW.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Doing this with this article:
https://obj.ca/ottawa-airport-authority-studying-potential-expansion-of-yow-terminal/

Apparently the peak times at YOW are full. Hopefully YOW will have the backbone to start replacing other airlines or give priority to Porter moving forward if they need to. Didn’t make YOW a priority? Then you don’t get priority slots/gate space is how it should be. Probably not great airport-airline relations wise but someone at some point needs to stick it to AC and WS and make room for PD.

The terminal is nowhere near full at peak times at present. 1700-1800 is the peak departure hour today and only totals 13 departures (had the 1700 Rapidair not cnld). That's only half the gates at the terminal. Add a couple more in for delays, early arrivals and those that have +1 hour turns and there's still lots of room...even factoring in the fact gates 1-6 are transborder only (and 2 of the 13 schedule are transborder anyways).

Pre-pandemic departures were in the 110 range on peak days and even then the terminal was nowhere near full. Between the 26 terminal gates and the 3 remote stands, there's still lots of room for PD to grow. However, planning for the future with Porter having a say 20 flight departure bank + factoring in everyone else is wise to do now and vs in say 2026.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

The terminal is nowhere near full at peak times at present. 1700-1800 is the peak departure hour today and only totals 13 departures (had the 1700 Rapidair not cnld). That's only half the gates at the terminal. Add a couple more in for delays, early arrivals and those that have +1 hour turns and there's still lots of room...even factoring in the fact gates 1-6 are transborder only (and 2 of the 13 schedule are transborder anyways).

Pre-pandemic departures were in the 110 range on peak days and even then the terminal was nowhere near full. Between the 26 terminal gates and the 3 remote stands, there's still lots of room for PD to grow. However, planning for the future with Porter having a say 20 flight departure bank + factoring in everyone else is wise to do now and vs in say 2026.

Thanks for that explanation. I'm not an expert and value everyone's input on here as I continue to learn. I just go by off what I read in articles.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Thanks for that explanation. I'm not an expert and value everyone's input on here as I continue to learn. I just go by off what I read in articles.

My pleasure.

Today's departure count: 75

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 75

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

[originalmuffins]

I don't know if this got brought up, but YOW+ indicated Bridgehead has opened up on July 21st! Small news, but a nice little addition.

Also, it may not be necessary yet - but I am glad YOW is being a little more active and thinking of new expansions already. Better to start planning and getting those implemented now. I agree that they should prioritize Porter and those who didn't abandon YOW (looking at you AC and WJ).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Double daily CDG I think's a pipe dream, at least in the next 10 years. Beyond the 789, there's still the 772 and 77W (including the high density configuration) that would have to be achieved first.

If AF ever gets 321XLRs, YOW will probably be a launch candidate with 10x per week eventually going to double daily.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

I don't know if this got brought up, but YOW+ indicated Bridgehead has opened up on July 21st! Small news, but a nice little addition.

Also, it may not be necessary yet - but I am glad YOW is being a little more active and thinking of new expansions already. Better to start planning and getting those implemented now. I agree that they should prioritize Porter and those who didn't abandon YOW (looking at you AC and WJ).

Thanks for sharing. Sometimes I feel like I'm working for YOW myself because it uplifts my mood whenever any growth happens or increased revenue from whatever source. Hoping for a fortress hub type situation from Porter in the future!

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 71

Today's cancellation count (so far): 3

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 68

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today's departure count: 68

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

There were a couple Chrono 732s in today and there is a Jetlines A320 for the Redblacks here as well

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

There were a couple Chrono 732s in today and there is a Jetlines A320 for the Redblacks here as well

Nice!

Today's departure count: 74

Today's cancellation count (so far): 2

[solo748]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If AF ever gets 321XLRs, YOW will probably be a launch candidate with 10x per week eventually going to double daily.

Yiiiikes.
How silly

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by solo748

Yiiiikes.
How silly

Why do you think that?

A 321XLR with lie flat J class is about 180 seats. AF 332 has 224 seats and AF 789 has 279 seats. So 10x/wk 321XLR is 15% more seats over daily 332 and 8% fewer seats over daily 789. It's not as out there as you think. It's also a less premium product, so they wouldn't need as much business traffic to justify increasing frequencies. Contingent, of course, on AF get 321XLRs.

Eventually AC will probably start 321XLR ops from Ottawa to at least FRA or MUC. They have 30 on order right now, with purchase rights for 15 more. Those aren't all for Toronto and Montreal. And if AF doesn't eventually up its game, it's very possible to see AC competing on YOW-CDG with a 321XLR too.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why do you think that?

A 321XLR with lie flat J class is about 180 seats. AF 332 has 224 seats and AF 789 has 279 seats. So 10x/wk 321XLR is 15% more seats over daily 332 and 8% fewer seats over daily 789. It's not as out there as you think. It's also a less premium product, so they wouldn't need as much business traffic to justify increasing frequencies. Contingent, of course, on AF get 321XLRs.

Eventually AC will probably start 321XLR ops from Ottawa to at least FRA or MUC. They have 30 on order right now, with purchase rights for 15 more. Those aren't all for Toronto and Montreal. And if AF doesn't eventually up its game, it's very possible to see AC competing on YOW-CDG with a 321XLR too.

I don't think this is farfetched at all. Increased frequency would be a competitive threat to AC, something that AF may not be able to do on a wide body. The only thing I find silly is the fact that AC is actually waiting for the XLR's while this city is clearly proving that a wide body to Europe can be successfully filled. FRA and LHR are my only expectation from AC as they clearly do not care about our market, evident by the fact that they still have not put out a response to PD's operations from here. Whether they prove me wrong or not is still TBA. If they expand beyond that with the XLR's like for example AMS, LIS, BCN, I will be happy to admit I was wrong about them and let my strong negative views go. Until then, my support goes to AF. It's time for AC to put their money where their mouth is, because apparently they would not operate to Europe from YOW since there is no market for a wide body.

When Laroche said "we were so close to a route to Paris before the pandemic hit", I wonder if that was AF or AC...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

The only thing I find silly is the fact that AC is actually waiting for the XLR's while this city is clearly proving that a wide body to Europe can be successfully filled.

I don't find this weird at all. AC doesn't have widebodies sitting around. So YOW would have to have a yield potential that exceeds some other YYC, YUL, YVR or YYZ route substantially enough to justify pulling a widebody off that route and incurring operations startup costs here. That is a high bar to climb.

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

FRA and LHR are my only expectation from AC....

With 321XLRs, I wouldn't rule out MUC and CDG. Former for the connections. Latter because of demand and the ability to steal share from AF.