[Moncton] Northwest/Magnetic Hill Developments

[jnaygull]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Horsman Centre on Horsman Road has been complete now for at least a month, but, the site remains closed and I see no evidence of any interior fit-up for tenants. I now firmly believe that Corey-Craig has built this plaza completely on spec.

In their initial rendering, they were pitching this plaza to be anchored by a pharmacy, medical clinic and bank, but, it's obvious that these plans fell through.

I think it will be hard to find tenants for this plaza without a strong anchor. It's too bad really, the neighbourhood is growing quickly and there is a lot of traffic passing by on Horsman Road. This plaza should be a success, but I think it will be very slow to take off.........

I am sure there will be a lot of interest once the new apartment building on Twin Oaks is completed. That project is not exactly going up quickly. This plaza is a prime location for a discount store, and a restaurant or two.

[MonctonRad]

The large construction site across the street from Fero on DesBrisay Ave in the Moncton West Industrial Park has been revealed.

It will be a cold storage facility and depot for Cargp County Group out of Toronto. A building permit in the valuation of $4.3M was issued last month.

https://cargocounty.com/about-us/

[jnaygull]

I thought this was interesting:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/25870247/lot-vision-lands-west-moncton

[MonctonRad]

Interesting yes, but, this land currently belongs to Thrive (AFAIK), and its impending sale speaks more to me of Thrive giving up the dream of a greater Mapleton Crossing than anything else. The "Vision Lands" continue to underperform.........

[jnaygull]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting yes, but, this land currently belongs to Thrive (AFAIK), and its impending sale speaks more to me of Thrive giving up the dream of a greater Mapleton Crossing than anything else. The "Vision Lands" continue to underperform.........

I think the Vision Lands lack of progress has more to do with the city focusing its efforts more on downtown density over sprawl -which I wholeheartedly agree with.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jnaygull

I think the Vision Lands lack of progress has more to do with the city focusing its efforts more on downtown density over sprawl -which I wholeheartedly agree with.

I agree, but, there are a number of different landowners in the Vision Lands, and, despite the city's best efforts, no coherent plan has been developed.

Until all the players sit down together and agree on a plan (rather than fanciful visioning), the majority of the land will remain fallow, and any development that happens will be haphazard.

I totally agree that the city's principle focus should be on the downtown south of Main Street, and, with the principle developers and landowners being Ashford and Lafford, coordination will be much easier to achieve.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree, but, there are a number of different landowners in the Vision Lands, and, despite the city's best efforts, no coherent plan has been developed.

Until all the players sit down together and agree on a plan (rather than fanciful visioning), the majority of the land will remain fallow, and any development that happens will be haphazard.

I totally agree that the city's principle focus should be on the downtown south of Main Street, and, with the principle developers and landowners being Ashford and Lafford, coordination will be much easier to achieve.

Heritage Developments also owns a large chunk of land, specifically if the giant parking lot across from the Service Canada building that they also own.

[jonny golden]

Thrive has so many irons in the fire already that there's enough projects planned to keep them busy for years. Maybe they're trying to flip the land for a profit. In any event, selling it eliminates paying the property taxes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Thrive has so many irons in the fire already that there's enough projects planned to keep them busy for years. Maybe they're trying to flip the land for a profit. In any event, selling it eliminates paying the property taxes.

Agreed. It will also give them some operating capital so that they can complete the current projects they have on the go.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agreed. It will also give them some operating capital so that they can complete the current projects they have on the go.

Good point. And as a former apartment building owner, I know that as their buildings come on line, their cash flow gets a boost. Still wondering when they'll be starting the twin towers?

[jnaygull]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Thrive has so many irons in the fire already that there's enough projects planned to keep them busy for years. Maybe they're trying to flip the land for a profit. In any event, selling it eliminates paying the property taxes.

Even they see value in building up rather than out. There has to be much less work involved with that.

Isn't Thrive the brains behind the 10-story proposal for Riverview? Perhaps they will use the cash from this sale to get on that one. However, it seems that the Chocolate River Station building has found a small renaissance with Holy Whale and Cannabis NB.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by jnaygull

Even they see value in building up rather than out.

People still need the choice to build a house. Nothing will change that. This no sprawl stuff is pretty much "don't build houses". If there isn't any choice to build a house in Moncton they will simply build in Riverview, Dieppe, Memramcook, Shediac, Salisbury, etc. That will increase sprawl even more. I had a co-worker build in Bouchtouche and then travel in for work. I think we should be concentrating on the big projects and being excited about them rather than getting pissed at the lack of them not turning Moncton into Toronto overnight and then blaming it on house owners. I find this mentality of control pretty disturbing to the point of being equivalent to commy level dictatorships. I love skyscrapers but this obsession with them to the point of everyone must live in one it pretty disturbing. We don't need to be told where to live. I'm not sure why this keeps coming up over and over in this website.

People keep touting sustainability as a response. However if you know anything about the science of sustainability you should note that great population growth or even worse explosive population growth in the number one thing that will halt sustainability in it's tracks.

I'd also like to point out that people are moving here from other parts of Canada and other parts of the world because the price of a house and the accessibility to own a house is desirable. Otherwise they would have kept going to Toronto or Calgary or some where's else. What you are trying to eliminate is the very reason why we have this growth to being with.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by jnaygull

Even they see value in building up rather than out. There has to be much less work involved with that.

Isn't Thrive the brains behind the 10-story proposal for Riverview? Perhaps they will use the cash from this sale to get on that one. However, it seems that the Chocolate River Station building has found a small renaissance with Holy Whale and Cannabis NB.

Yes they are, they purchased the station from the town a few years ago. There are two 10 floor towers proposed. It seems to me that I heard Holy Whale may be interested in becoming a tenant in the new building. Not 100% sure though.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

People still need the choice to build a house. Nothing will change that. This no sprawl stuff is pretty much "don't build houses". If there isn't any choice to build a house in Moncton they will simply build in Riverview, Dieppe, Memramcook, Shediac, Salisbury, etc. That will increase sprawl even more. I had a co-worker build in Bouchtouche and then travel in for work. I think we should be concentrating on the big projects and being excited about them rather than getting pissed at the lack of them not turning Moncton into Toronto overnight and then blaming it on house owners. I find this mentality of control pretty disturbing to the point of being equivalent to commy level dictatorships. I love skyscrapers but this obsession with them to the point of everyone must live in one it pretty disturbing. We don't need to be told where to live. I'm not sure why this keeps coming up over and over in this website.

"Lack of choice" and "control" could just as easily be used to describe Moncton's war on urban living up until very recently.

Let's be honest, if you happen to have the time+desire+ability+resources to handle everything involved with a suburban entirely car-dependent SFH lifestyle, then you wouldn't even notice it. But for many others, Moncton had been an absolutely hellish place to live until recently. The woefully inadequate public transit, the absence of any modern apartments/condos/townhouses in the core, the lack of safe active transportation infrastructure, the unplowed sidewalks, the few amenities in the downtown... It's not surprising that newcomers and urbanites would leave as soon as they possibly could. When you came here, you were effectively forced into a lifestyle that only works for certain types of people. That's not a healthy or balanced city by any stretch.

To your point about the comments on this forum, it shouldn't be hard to understand why some of us get a little on edge watching loads of NIMBYs from Northwest filling up council meetings to wage war against a mere 4-storey apartment building. We don't want to see this place go backwards.

But wanting to see a more accessible Moncton that works for all types of people in no way translates to a sentiment of "don't build houses". We need all sorts of housing, and desperately so.

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

I'd also like to point out that people are moving here from other parts of Canada and other parts of the world because the price of a house and the accessibility to own a house is desirable. Otherwise they would have kept going to Toronto or Calgary or some where's else. What you are trying to eliminate is the very reason why we have this growth to being with.

A lot of assumptions there. Not sure if you've noticed, but quite a few brand new SFHs are staying on the market for a very long time, meanwhile the vacancy rate for apartments is near all-time lows despite a dramatic increase in supply.

Just because people are choosing to come here instead of bigger cities (or moving here from bigger cities) doesn't necessarily mean they're looking for a quasi-rural lifestyle or want to be an hour walk away from a corner store or coffee shop.

The vast majority of newcomers I've talked to say they would've preferred staying in Ontario or BC, but the cost of housing drove them out, they came here mainly for the affordability and because of the fact that the city is reasonably dynamic and growing.

[lirette]

A few 10-15 story buildings getting a green light in Moncton and suddenly were communist? Aren't by definition these buildings free market capitalism considering it's rich development companies we are simply answering to the demand of high income earners who are reserving these condos and apartments years in advance ?

I agree that there should be smaller starter houses built for the people who want them, you don't really see the likes of the small bungalows that were built in the 50's & 60s around here. It's massive 2 story 4-5 bedroom homes or bust it seems. But I don't think it has a single thing to do with communism.

I don't think anyone on here is advocating for only skyscrapers, but it's been a constant fight to get the proper sized buildings fit into key locations. Just look at main and Vaughn Harvey. We are only scratching the surface of what the downtown core could look like. I think we all want premiere developments focused in the core of downtown, while smaller infil projects ad housing supply to the suburban areas of the city.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

"Lack of choice" and "control" could just as easily be used to describe Moncton's war on urban living up until very recently.

Say what you want about Moncton but we have usually been very pro development with not much NIMBYism in comparison to other places. It's been for a least a decade and a half that Moncton has been trying to increase population downtown as a revitalization project. Which I fully support.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

The woefully inadequate public transit, the absence of any modern apartments/condos/townhouses in the core, the lack of safe active transportation infrastructure, the unplowed sidewalks, the few amenities in the downtown...

Then maybe we should try to address those things rather than trying to fix them with something else.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

That's not a healthy or balanced city by any stretch.

That's what we want and what we will accomplish. I think most Monctonians want that going forward and can't really see any downside to having a well balanced city. In no way or time did I say this wasn't where we should be heading.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

To your point about the comments on this forum, it shouldn't be hard to understand why some of us get a little on edge watching loads of NIMBYs from Northwest filling up council meetings to wage war against a mere 4-storey apartment building. We don't want to see this place go backwards.

I'd like to see developments going forward and not being halted, but this is their city as well and they have the right to express themselves and object as it more than likely directly affects them in their own neighborhood. They are not invalid and pay taxes, they deserve to have their say. It's pretty one sided of you to say that everyone should just move aside or lay down and not have any concerns just so you can see your vision of Moncton pressed on these people just so you can feel good about it.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

But wanting to see a more accessible Moncton that works for all types of people in no way translates to a sentiment of "don't build houses". We need all sorts of housing, and desperately so.

Well that's exactly what it sounds like to me. It's been dozens of times in these threads that I read about hating sprawl (and yes I do know what type of enthusiast site I am on) but where else are you going to build a house then? Industrials parks really aren't sprawl, neither are institution's, or commercial nodes, it's residential. Even though it definitely has it's bad sides houses are still needed. I am pro development but we need all types not just one for another. It's not time to start reducing house builds and only going all in on downtown. To have a focus on downtown is great but other areas of the city shouldn't be neglected in the meantime.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

A lot of assumptions there. Not sure if you've noticed, but quite a few brand new SFHs are staying on the market for a very long time, meanwhile the vacancy rate for apartments is near all-time lows despite a dramatic increase in supply.

We were in a pandemic. Also inflation and increased interest rates are scaring people away from wanting to be a home owner right now. Not a lot of people will be buying a house, I wouldn't let that convince you that houses are no longer required or that people don't want them, coupled with the fact baby boomers are moving into apartments makes them in high demand right now.

Originally Posted by SevenSquared

Just because people are choosing to come here instead of bigger cities (or moving here from bigger cities) doesn't necessarily mean they're looking for a quasi-rural lifestyle or want to be an hour walk away from a corner store or coffee shop.

The vast majority of newcomers I've talked to say they would've preferred staying in Ontario or BC, but the cost of housing drove them out, they came here mainly for the affordability and because of the fact that the city is reasonably dynamic and growing.

Fair enough but I don't know of any spots in Moncton where you would have to walk for an hour to get a coffee, that's quite an exaggeration. Maybe on the very outskirts of Shediac, Mountain and Salisbury roads? Maybe they should visit the city they are thinking of buying a house in rather than buying online? My point is that we shouldn't be trying to replace one type of housing for another. We should be adding more of all types. A sentiment that really isn't shared on here. That is a problem because affordable houses can be a big draw to population growth which is something that we don't want to see, well, "screwed up".

I take it that you have the best interest in our great and upcoming city at hand. As do I. I'd love to see a great deal of skyscrapers built but with houses still being built at other areas of the city. No doubt this will continue to the betterment of our part of the globe.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by lirette

A few 10-15 story buildings getting a green light in Moncton and suddenly were communist? Aren't by definition these buildings free market capitalism considering it's rich development companies we are simply answering to the demand of high income earners who are reserving these condos and apartments years in advance ?

That comment is being taken out of context, I meant to the people who hate neighborhoods and sprawl, who don't like houses being built. The ones who only want to see big city construction as "the only way forward". I'm not opposed to big or tall buildings at all. I just want to see supply increase for all types rather than one for the other.

Originally Posted by lirette

I agree that there should be smaller starter houses built for the people who want them, you don't really see the likes of the small bungalows that were built in the 50's & 60s around here. It's massive 2 story 4-5 bedroom homes or bust it seems. But I don't think it has a single thing to do with communism.

I think that those types of houses are out of people's reach considering the financial climate that were in right now, but I hope that will recover. The communism comment was a tiny bit of sarcasm meaning that people don't have the right to dictate what type of housing that people should be getting or where they will live. Hence the comments about stopping suburbia like it's some kind of plague.

Originally Posted by lirette

I don't think anyone on here is advocating for only skyscrapers, but it's been a constant fight to get the proper sized buildings fit into key locations. Just look at main and Vaughn Harvey. We are only scratching the surface of what the downtown core could look like. I think we all want premiere developments focused in the core of downtown, while smaller infill projects ad housing supply to the suburban areas of the city.

I definitely agree with you here my friend. 100%.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I don’t think anybody on here is advocating for less housing. We just want to see our downtown actually build up and not be a bunch of parking lots. This is Moncton, there is always going to be sprawl for housing, we just kind of assume that’s going to happen.

[MonctonRad]

Planning documents for the proposed new four storey 32 unit apartment building to be built at 189 Mapleton Road, next to the car wash and just down the street from Skipper Jacks.

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/pac/PAC/August_23_2023/4c_189_Mapleton_Avis_Public_Notice.pdf

A fairly small scale project not worth adding to my depleting supply of "free" uploads to Flickr, therefore I am only posting the link and no screen captures.

[David_99]

Maybe this is old news, but has anyone seen this new Cider House being built by Avant Garde Construction on Homestead Rd?