Calgary International Airport II

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by casper

I am also in that frequently flyer group. That said, I have given up chasing status, instead I go for schedule which most years is a split between AC, WJ, Alaska and Delta. We need more AMEX and Delta lounges, some years I have access to the Maple Leaf Lounges and others not. I don't think I am that unusual, there are a lot of frequent flyers that are usually in economy and don't always have status.

I am pro water fountains. It is the environmentally responsible thing to do. (Yes, I know air travel is not that environmentally responsible but we need to do what we can where we can.

This describes me pretty well too: 6 or 8 return flights a year, primarily US and Canada. I too gave up chasing AC status a few years ago when they increased the qualifying thresholds (by decreasing the air miles given for an economy ticket). I enjoy Maple Leaf Lounge Access, but I realized it was not worth the effort given less convenience in flight options.
You are absolutely right when you say lots of frequent fliers don't have lounge access and fly economy. I see a lot of wealthy self employed people in the back of the plane. An old employer of mine also used to have a rule against booking business class on flights of less than four hours.

[EdmontonTraveller]

Originally Posted by Acey

Will people get the idea and just go for a stroll to find the big blue plane if they're off to AMS, for example, or try abiding by the system? I just so strongly hate the concept of call to gate that maybe it's only me that would do that, or just get the gate from any number of sources.

Once the novelty wears off (and curious people stop being curious) depends on the proximate seating and nearby amenities - mainly being power outlets and washrooms. Gatwick has about six seats prior to its gate counter; about 150 after. Not much reason to go looking for the plane just to stand around. Auckland has 150 prior to the counter, along with Cage's dreaded security-clogging water fountain and a washroom. And a vending machine (like many of Heathrow's gates). No reason to sit in the common lounge when you can hunker down at what is obviously your gate.

Unless it's during a busy period when both gates for a given seating area are in use, I don't think YYC cares if you get to a gate early. They care that you're not buying stuff; once that battle is lost it's just a matter of staying out of people's way. Since IFP means disembarking passengers go to Customs, only issue left is boarding pax clogging the gate area. (Which still happens with call-to-gate: tell 250 people to board, and 210 will easily block a hallway, passageway, or any slightly constrained area. Hopefully IFP has none of those near gates...which could mean no seats prior to the counter.)

[Johnny Aussie]

The photo YYC posted on twitter regarding the call to gate system has five HUGE FID screens in the international hold room. Each one capable of showing at least 14 flights. So let's calculate ... they can show 70 flights.
YYC will have at most 8 international (intercontinental) flights per day next summer plus a few sun flights in the early mornings. Even in winter with fewer intercontinental flights but maybe say 8 sun flights in the mornings this all seems just overkill?
And it really won't be too hard to sort out with 5 widebodies on the gates in the afternoon. Other than the two AC flights won't be hard to figure out where to go. But airports make more $$$ from their retail and parking these days hence this plan.

[Cage]

While the TV screens are super huge, there are lots of possibilities other than just the standard FIDS screens. How about this:
Monitor One:

Go to Gate
AC850
London Heathrow
Gate 70

Monitor Two

Go to Gate
AC844
Frankfurt
Gate 71

Monitor 3:

Please Wait
WS001
London Gatwick
Gate --

[Bokimon]

How about a diagram of the terminal highlighting and blinking the gate in which the airplane would be assigned to? Most people tend to adjust well to visual indications so it gives a reference in which they can more easily interpret and relate to for situational awareness. Well maybe a secondary idea if the original plan doesn't work as well which the authority will monitor I'm sure..

[casper]

Originally Posted by PPAR

This describes me pretty well too: 6 or 8 return flights a year, primarily US and Canada. I too gave up chasing AC status a few years ago when they increased the qualifying thresholds (by decreasing the air miles given for an economy ticket). I enjoy Maple Leaf Lounge Access, but I realized it was not worth the effort given less convenience in flight options.
You are absolutely right when you say lots of frequent fliers don't have lounge access and fly economy. I see a lot of wealthy self employed people in the back of the plane. An old employer of mine also used to have a rule against booking business class on flights of less than four hours.

I am down to about 12-15. Usually try to do multi-city trips to get the amount of time traveling down.

The AMEX lounges are great. The two problem areas have always been Montreal (where they don't exist) and Calgary where the domestic lounge was always on the WestJet side. Just now I have Maple Leaf access, but I am likely going to be just under next year.

Not certain who is booking direct into paid Business Class (and International Business Class) these days. I have had my share of upgrades or awards over the years. Perhaps some professional services firms and large corporate travel, not certain. Most SME I know including owners and senior management are sticking to Economy and Premium Economy. I view the WestJet premium product as a Premium Economy.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

The photo YYC posted on twitter regarding the call to gate system has five HUGE FID screens in the international hold room. Each one capable of showing at least 14 flights. So let's calculate ... they can show 70 flights.
YYC will have at most 8 international (intercontinental) flights per day next summer plus a few sun flights in the early mornings. Even in winter with fewer intercontinental flights but maybe say 8 sun flights in the mornings this all seems just overkill?
And it really won't be too hard to sort out with 5 widebodies on the gates in the afternoon. Other than the two AC flights won't be hard to figure out where to go. But airports make more $$$ from their retail and parking these days hence this plan.

The extra space can be used as digital billboard space for all the establishments in the wait area.

Personally I am not a fan of call to gate. Heathrow use to the place that did that and it was annoying. Even there it was only in the terminal that AC used (Terminal 3 if I remember correctly).

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Cage

While the TV screens are super huge, there are lots of possibilities other than just the standard FIDS screens.

At Heathrow, they either tell you the Gate Number or the time at which your Gate Number will be available.

Originally Posted by casper

Personally I am not a fan of call to gate. Heathrow use to the place that did that and it was annoying. Even there it was only in the terminal that AC used (Terminal 3 if I remember correctly).

I believe they are now also using Call to Gate at Terminals 2 and 5.

[yyc_engineer]

For opening day there is no Maple Leaf Lounge in the International Terminal. Premium International and Transborder passengers will have to check-in at the new terminal then walk back to the Domestic Terminal, use pre-board screening C, use the MLL in the C-Pier and then take the Link or walk back to the International terminal post-security to catch their flight. If they are going to the US, they will need to clear security again as well as US Pre-Clearance.

Understanding that Air Canada has a limited number of International flights (as compared to YVR, YUL and YYZ) out of YYC (Int: FRA, LHR, NRT, PVR and CUN & TB: LAX, OGG, LAS, PHX, SEA, PDX, IAH) I am wondering how long it will be until either:

(A) Air Canada gives premium passengers vouchers to use the Swissport Aspire Lounges in the International Terminal or

(B) Air Canada ponies up and build MLL's in the new terminal - both International and Transborder levels

The current set-up really is not ideal, as International passengers will need to leave the MLL 1 hour prior to their departure times and Transborder passengers at least 1.5 hours (as they still have to clear US Customs and Pre-Board Screening) to physically walk all the way to their gates. And if the flight takes a delay at the gate they can't even walk back to the MLL as once inside the International Terminal you cannot leave to go to the Domestic unless you are on an onward, inbound connection.

Also, could there be some appetite for a joint MLL / United Club in the Transborder level as United is the biggest US carrier out of YYC.

[PPAR]

Considering the lukewarm comments from that Air Canada executive at the opening, I doubt AC has much appetite for spending on a new lounge for the international terminal.
Another question is, what airports have more than one MLL? Is Calgary busy enough to justify two AC Lounges?

On another matter, I have been arranging trips to both New Orleans (work) and Hawaii (play) recently, and have noted that Delta is back in a big way at YYC with reasonable routes at good prices. It has been a few years since we saw them as active in YYC marketplace.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by PPAR

Considering the lukewarm comments from that Air Canada executive at the opening, I doubt AC has much appetite for spending on a new lounge for the international terminal.
Another question is, what airports have more than one MLL?

I would imagine that YYC gave AC plenty of opportunities in the design phase to sign up and get the lounge of their dreams.

YVR, YUL, and YYZ each have 3 Maple Leaf Lounges for domestic, transborder, and international.

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

I would imagine that YYC gave AC plenty of opportunities in the design phase to sign up and get the lounge of their dreams.

YVR, YUL, and YYZ each have 3 Maple Leaf Lounges for domestic, transborder, and international.

You are starting to make me feel like an Edmontonian! Jilted by Air Canada!

[Cage]

Originally Posted by casper

I am also in that frequently flyer group. That said, I have given up chasing status, instead I go for schedule which most years is a split between AC, WJ, Alaska and Delta.

Originally Posted by PPAR

This describes me pretty well too: 6 or 8 return flights a year, primarily US and Canada. I too gave up chasing AC status a few years ago when they increased the qualifying thresholds (by decreasing the air miles given for an economy ticket).

Originally Posted by casper

I am down to about 12-15. Usually try to do multi-city trips to get the amount of time traveling down.

One important point to consider, when I was talking about once per year flyers, the source is airline customer relationship management software. This software is dependant upon unique identifying data to split passengers. Therefore it is dependent upon frequent flyer number to distinguish who is a frequent flyer, and 1-2 times per year flyer, and who only flies once every few years. A person travelling 2 times in AC, once on DL, and twice on WS is a once per year flyer.

The only CRM software system that can cross commercial airlines and their associated alliances is US government Secure Flight Program. However they don't sell data to anyone.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

I would imagine that YYC gave AC plenty of opportunities in the design phase to sign up and get the lounge of their dreamSl.

Actually quite the opposite is true, the airport has been hostile towards AC and MLL for the past 15 years.

On merger with CP, AC wanted to keep the Empress lounge open in concourse B, but the airport wanted the space for a food court and would not let AC retain the lease.

The space currently assigned to the Rocky Mountain Swissport lounge was offered to AC, however there was insufficient size for AC Customers without any consideration for the large number of UA pax that would gain access to a transborder MLL. Further, the Rocky Mountain lounge has insufficient space for a proper kitchen. The airport was shocked when AC turned them down.

The initial design of the YYC link had the transportation corridor running through the middle of the MLL. The aiport solution was to cut the MLL by 60% in size or transfer operations to the international terminal.

The new international terminal design would not contemplate allowing for a joint use kitchen and staff facilities between the international and transborder MLL. Further the airlines had to sign up for two large space at premium lease rates on a take it or leave it basis, there was no negotiation or co-operative design.

[CalgaryCheese]

A question about signage directing people to the new terminal...will that all be installed tonight, or will tehy change the signs over a few days and have a few outdated international departures signs in the terminal?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by CalgaryCheese

A question about signage directing people to the new terminal...will that all be installed tonight, or will tehy change the signs over a few days and have a few outdated international departures signs in the terminal?

If not yyc-engineer himself, then a bunch of his coworkers will likely be installing all new signage tonight. When the concourses switched designators (D became A and A became C) a few years ago, the new signs were installed in one nights work.

My guess is that within the next 48 hours hoarding will go up at the old transborder check in stands for UA, AA, DL, AS, and WS.

One lost opportunity, the airport authority should have held a charity auction for rights to demolish the old USCBP, B pre board security, and CBSA halls. $500 donation per sledge hammer and hard hat for a ticket to the "eviction party".

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

One important point to consider, when I was talking about once per year flyers, the source is airline customer relationship management software. This software is dependant upon unique identifying data to split passengers. Therefore it is dependent upon frequent flyer number to distinguish who is a frequent flyer, and 1-2 times per year flyer, and who only flies once every few years. A person travelling 2 times in AC, once on DL, and twice on WS is a once per year flyer.

The only CRM software system that can cross commercial airlines and their associated alliances is US government Secure Flight Program. However they don't sell data to anyone.

For about a decade I would make Elite every year without trying. Last two-three years I have not bothered. Combination of WestJet becoming far more viable as an alternative to AC and now living in a city where Alaska has a reasonable presence. So far this year I am at 32 segments (between AC, United and Lufthansa). However the last two trips of the years are going to be on WestJet (better connection and less time sitting in an airport).

I think AC has downgraded their loyalty program by quite a bit over the past few years and their in flight product is getting worse. Last overseas flight was in Premium Economy on Lufthansa and coming back it was Economy on the high density 777. What a mediocre aircraft.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

Actually quite the opposite is true, the airport has been hostile towards AC and MLL for the past 15 years.

On merger with CP, AC wanted to keep the Empress lounge open in concourse B, but the airport wanted the space for a food court and would not let AC retain the lease.

The space currently assigned to the Rocky Mountain Swissport lounge was offered to AC, however there was insufficient size for AC Customers without any consideration for the large number of UA pax that would gain access to a transborder MLL. Further, the Rocky Mountain lounge has insufficient space for a proper kitchen. The airport was shocked when AC turned them down.

The initial design of the YYC link had the transportation corridor running through the middle of the MLL. The aiport solution was to cut the MLL by 60% in size or transfer operations to the international terminal.

The new international terminal design would not contemplate allowing for a joint use kitchen and staff facilities between the international and transborder MLL. Further the airlines had to sign up for two large space at premium lease rates on a take it or leave it basis, there was no negotiation or co-operative design.

That Empress lounge was quite small but it was nice and close to the gates on the B pier for the Heathrow and Frankfurt flight. Always wondered what the story was behind that.

In comparison Quebec city has an airport run Maple Leaf lounge that doubles with AMEX and WestJet.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Acey

You can see how WS will be using those crucial swing gates too, i.e. exactly the same as they do now...

YWG-YYC-SAN on gate 73
YZF-YYC-IAH on gate 72

Then in the afternoon
PHX-YYC-YVR on gate 72

I'm guessing it will cause some level of confusion that there are domestic departures out of IFP. I guess that's the answer to my question about towing... they just won't. About 60% of the early YWG inbound to YEG is domestic cnx, so if it's anything similar to that in YYC then a lot of people better get used to doing a lot of walking for domestic cnx.

They've defintely laid claim to Gates 72/73 as there are quite a few WestJet appurtenances set up there as of today. (Bag sizing devices, signage, etc.). I wonder if they will be the sole users of these gates or if they are sharing gate slots with AC? Doesn't the AC SFO flight do YWG-YYC-SFO or something like that?

[YYCguys]

Maybe this is old news, but I was passing through A concourse today and KLM was celebrating their first Dreamliner arrival/departure at YYC today. Too bad I couldn't get a snap of it as I was in a hurry. Would have loved to see it myself! But everyone was so excited!