Cycling in Ottawa

[AndyMEng]

They're cleared to bare pavement, which sidewalks rarely are (which is why people often prefer to walk on the bikeway instead of the sidewalk).

You're making it sound like it's a more expensive clearing down to bare pavement for a bike lane, when the problem is the surface the plow is clearing.

I've seen the sidewalk plow go up O'Connor bike lanes, then down O'Connor sidewalks (because it just makes sense to go up and back to finish it all at once). Its not that the bike paths are getting 'more' work done to them, its just that asphalt is flat, and sidewalks are Sh*t in this town. You can't get a plow blade flat even on good concrete with all the joints involved. Bare pavement for concrete only comes after salt has had a chance to do its business, which only happens once the snow stops.

[lrt's friend]

Crikey, we're talking about the Laurier bike lanes and the addition of O'Connor this year. Two fricken roads downtown. Is that too much to ask?

No, we are not talking about two roads. I believe those are being cleared. I am not objecting to that. That is hardly the point that I am making. My point is how many are we going to building, how many are going to be cleared in winter and at what cost? It is quite clear (you said it yourself) that it is desirable to impede other modes of transportation even if is for the sake of winter biking. There needs to be a cost/benefit analysis. As others have pointed out, we have to keep bike paths more clear than the streets and sidewalks.

[Kitchissippi]

No, we are not talking about two roads. I believe those are being cleared. I am not objecting to that. That is hardly the point that I am making. My point is how many are we going to building, how many are going to be cleared in winter and at what cost? It is quite clear (you said it yourself) that it is desirable to impede other modes of transportation even if is for the sake of winter biking. There needs to be a cost/benefit analysis. As others have pointed out, we have to keep bike paths more clear than the streets and sidewalks.

Some people make it sound like winter cyclists are asking for the moon when in reality, the maintained winter cycling routes form a pretty thread-bare network that cyclists are generally happy with. It radiates out not more than 8 km from downtown where winter cycling can make the most difference, nobody is demanding for much more. Half of it consists of MUPs that pedestrians also use.

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/documents/winter_cyclingmap_en.pdf

This costs in the mere hundreds of thousands out of the $60 million+ snow clearing budget. If you consider that roughly a third of all street space is used for parking, we're spending about $20 million just so people can park on the streets for free in wintertime. That exceeds the entire annual cycling budget—infrastructure and all—by magnitudes.

Commuting cyclists have largely bought into the city's smart growth narrative. With zoning being changed to reduce parking requirements in dense development, it leaves walking, cycling and transit as the only choices for a growing amount of people. Cycling is faster than walking and increases travel range, and is far more convenient than transit for trips less than 5 kms. It is an absolutely essential component in all seasons for the successful redevelopment of the core.

[lrt's friend]

Nevertheless, there needs to be a cost/benefit analysis for winter cycling in particular. Furthermore, environmental issues of laying down more salt have to be considered. Salt is very toxic and is one of the main reasons why urban trees (and all plant material) do not survive.

[acottawa]

Some people make it sound like winter cyclists are asking for the moon when in reality, the maintained winter cycling routes form a pretty thread-bare network that cyclists are generally happy with. It radiates out not more than 8 km from downtown where winter cycling can make the most difference, nobody is demanding for much more. Half of it consists of MUPs that pedestrians also use.

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/documents/winter_cyclingmap_en.pdf

This costs in the mere hundreds of thousands out of the $60 million+ snow clearing budget. If you consider that roughly a third of all street space is used for parking, we're spending about $20 million just so people can park on the streets for free in wintertime. That exceeds the entire annual cycling budget—infrastructure and all—by magnitudes.



There have been numerous calls on this thread to expand the winter cycling network. Moreover, spending hundreds of thousands to serve hundreds of year around cyclists is a cost of about $1000 per cyclist.

[Kitchissippi]

There have been numerous calls on this thread to expand the winter cycling network. Moreover, spending hundreds of thousands to serve hundreds of year around cyclists is a cost of about $1000 per cyclist.

Expand by what, 10%?

So what's the comparative cost per driver to provide wintertime on-street parking? Would it be cheaper if those cyclists decide to drive instead? You're also using numbers from select bike counters that may not reflect the sum total of winter cyclists out there. Not every one goes through Laurier, many go to the universities and to Tunney's Pasture. Also the winter cycling network is fairly new, it takes a few years to build up habits and we are seeing a steady uptick in numbers.

[zzptichka]

Hmm 2 years ago we built Adawe bridge for a grand total of 1 pedestrian (yes, I crossed Rideau river there once 5 years ago in shallow water).
That's $9 Million per person. Someone really screwed up on the cost analysis part.

[Kitchissippi]

Nevertheless, there needs to be a cost/benefit analysis for winter cycling in particular. Furthermore, environmental issues of laying down more salt have to be considered. Salt is very toxic and is one of the main reasons why urban trees (and all plant material) do not survive.

So bike lane salt is somehow different from road salt and ends up being the tipping point of killing trees?

You can't separate winter cycling from spring, summer and fall cycling, much like you can't just separate out winter driving cost-wise. Factor in all seasons and cyclists would still be cheaper to support, in fact even come to a net benefit to the city.

Also gotta love the rightist Conservative school of statistics and economics that takes the day of lowest usage on one street and divide the total 4-5 months of winter maintenance to come up with a figure to shock the populist masses into thinking "OMG, them cyclists are taking up too much room and costing us money!"

Confederation Line is costing us over $10,000 per rider :)

[lrt's friend]

So bike lane salt is somehow different from road salt and ends up being the tipping point of killing trees?

You can't separate winter cycling from spring, summer and fall cycling, much like you can't just separate out winter driving cost-wise. Factor in all seasons and cyclists would still be cheaper to support, in fact even come to a net benefit to the city.

Also gotta love the rightist Conservative school of statistics and economics that takes the day of lowest usage on one street and divide the total 4-5 months of winter maintenance to come up with a figure to shock the populist masses into thinking "OMG, them cyclists are taking up too much room and costing us money!"

Confederation Line is costing us over $10,000 per rider :)

We should be working towards using less road salt. If more road salt is being applied in order to keep bike lanes open (which are also closer to where trees and shrubs are planted), then there has to be a degree of concern.

I should point out that I am not opposed to cycling infrastructure but I am concerned when it is being implemented so that it will considerably impede other traffic. I am the first one to agree that we don't need on-street parking on specific streets, but we should also not impede potential transit improvements on those same thoroughfares. Slowing down transit affects its viability with potential users and slower transit vehicles cost more money to operate.

[acottawa]

Expand by what, 10%?

So what's the comparative cost per driver to provide wintertime on-street parking? Would it be cheaper if those cyclists decide to drive instead? You're also using numbers from select bike counters that may not reflect the sum total of winter cyclists out there. Not every one goes through Laurier, many go to the universities and to Tunney's Pasture. Also the winter cycling network is fairly new, it takes a few years to build up habits and we are seeing a steady uptick in numbers.

It would certainly be cheaper if they decided to drive (or bus or walk or get a fatbike) instead. Nobody would notice a few hundred extra cars spread out over the whole city and those hundreds of thousands would be saved.

All the places with counters have extremely low numbers in the winter and most of the winter cycling network has counters. I don't agree with the city's policies on winter parking, I think it screws up ploughing and the city is undercharging, although I am not sure any of the cities ploughing efforts are targeted at making parking available. Parking spots are certainly not cleared after every snow fall.

Even if you double winter cycling and have may a thousand winter cyclists, what have you accomplished? 0.1% of the city would be winter cyclists, 99.9% would still need another way to get around.

[dougvdh]

....There needs to be a cost/benefit analysis. ....

I (or any other cyclist I know) would not object to performing a cost-benefit analysis on our City's various forms of transportation to re-examine their levels of funding.

[Uhuniau]

Some of the costs to clear bikeways are over inflated, I don't know why it would cost more than clearing sidewalks. There are plenty of sidewalks especially in suburban arterials that get really low winter usage but they're still cleared.

There are plenty of sidewalks and other pedestrian links on the URBAN streets in my neighbourhood that get really crap winter maintenance compared to sidewalks and MUPs in areas like Kanata.

[Uhuniau]

Hmm 2 years ago we built Adawe bridge for a grand total of 1 pedestrian (yes, I crossed Rideau river there once 5 years ago in shallow water).
That's $9 Million per person. Someone really screwed up on the cost analysis part.

When you build a thing, you're usually building it for future use, not past use.

Even accepting that accounting methodology, though, the figure is no more than $4.5-million per person, because I've waded across there, too. And if you measure by use, then it drops to no more than $3-million, because I crossed twice! :)

[zzptichka]

When you build a thing, you're usually building it for future use, not past use.

Even accepting that accounting methodology, though, the figure is no more than $4.5-million per person, because I've waded across there, too. And if you measure by use, then it drops to no more than $3-million, because I crossed twice! :)
That's my point.

[MarkR]

We should be working towards using less road salt. If more road salt is being applied in order to keep bike lanes open (which are also closer to where trees and shrubs are planted), then there has to be a degree of concern.

I agree with this. And the Laurier lanes at times have SO much salt on them that it feels like riding on a gravel road. And while the pavement is bare of ice and thus "safe", one could skid on the darn salt chunks...

[lrt's friend]

I (or any other cyclist I know) would not object to performing a cost-benefit analysis on our City's various forms of transportation to re-examine their levels of funding.

Yes, I am not trying to be anti-cyclist advocate by any means. I love that we have opened the Corkstown and Adawe bridges. We need more. I never opposed Laurier and O'Connor. I am excited that they are planning a similar bridge between Clegg and 5th avenue. I was also excited when they were going to build a multi-use bridge into Carleton University from the south side until we killed that plan. We also need one near Billings Bridge, which is too narrow to be safe for cyclists. I would love to see an analysis of where the most unsafe locations are for cyclists and fix those as a priority. Certainly, rebuilding streets is an opportunity that cannot be refused as well. But we should also consider having cyclists on secondary streets so the competition with heavy traffic is reduced. That will not always work depending on the location but it is worth a look. For example, my suggestion of a bridge near Billings Bridge might direct cyclists onto Pleasant Park rather than Bank or maybe create a route to access the Sawmill Creek trail more directly.

I just wonder about Montreal Road, which is not very wide to begin with and is a major transit spine that needs improvement. Why is Donald Street not a better choice to get people at least beyond St. Laurent and the Vanier Parkway has cycle track written all over it, given the wide right of way. If we can get the tracks up off the roadway and next to sidewalks like they have in Europe, it seems so much more safe with much less likelihood of cars veering up over the curb than into a painted lane or even a bike lane with those flexible posts. The two streets are just possible examples. I am sure there are more. Whether, they should be plowed in winter needs a review of what is the realistic demand, but I am sure more will be kept open year round over time. It is a gradual process.

[Buggys]

Yes, I am not trying to be anti-cyclist advocate by any means. I love that we have opened the Corkstown and Adawe bridges. We need more. I never opposed Laurier and O'Connor. I am excited that they are planning a similar bridge between Clegg and 5th avenue. I was also excited when they were going to build a multi-use bridge into Carleton University from the south side until we killed that plan. We also need one near Billings Bridge, which is too narrow to be safe for cyclists. I would love to see an analysis of where the most unsafe locations are for cyclists and fix those as a priority. Certainly, rebuilding streets is an opportunity that cannot be refused as well. But we should also consider having cyclists on secondary streets so the competition with heavy traffic is reduced. That will not always work depending on the location but it is worth a look. For example, my suggestion of a bridge near Billings Bridge might direct cyclists onto Pleasant Park rather than Bank or maybe create a route to access the Sawmill Creek trail more directly.

I just wonder about Montreal Road, which is not very wide to begin with and is a major transit spine that needs improvement. Why is Donald Street not a better choice to get people at least beyond St. Laurent and the Vanier Parkway has cycle track written all over it, given the wide right of way. If we can get the tracks up off the roadway and next to sidewalks like they have in Europe, it seems so much more safe with much less likelihood of cars veering up over the curb than into a painted lane or even a bike lane with those flexible posts. The two streets are just possible examples. I am sure there are more. Whether, they should be plowed in winter needs a review of what is the realistic demand, but I am sure more will be kept open year round over time. It is a gradual process.

"But we should also consider having cyclists on secondary streets so the competition with heavy traffic is reduced."



I think the focus should be having biking options on arterial & main streets, as they're the more direct routes & biking is a slower form of transportation than car.

The key is to shift on-street parking to side streets & eliminate them from the arterial & main streets -- Montreal Rd & Bank St have narrow ROWs & shouldn't have on-street parking.

Also, there should be stricter enforcement of delivery trucks stopping on the side of the road for "quick" deliveries, especially when they can go to a parking garage nearby. No, a "quick" 5 min delivery is not quick compared to the regular flow of traffic.

[rocketphish]

Design underway to fill in missing cycling link on ‘dangerous’ stretch of Hunt Club Road
'Waiting until 2025 is not acceptable': Brockington

by Erin McCracken, Ottawa South News
Sep 15, 2017

https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/original_/0/a/0a7563c9-1292-4e18-bc3c-5b869dc360e8/first_part___Super_Portrait.jpg

https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/original_/f/1/f125ab0a-1cf6-423a-bcc6-a0e16821264c/second_part___Super_Portrait.jpg

The city is planning to fill in a missing link that will make Hunt Club Road home to one of the longest continuous cycling lanes in Ottawa.

“This project will get us between Bank Street and (Highway) 416,” said Zlatko Krstulic, a senior transportation project manager. “In terms of an actual on-ride cycling facility, it would definitely be a contender for one of the longest.

“If you look at the city from the east, then the (cycling) facility would be more or less complete up to 416,” he said. “In fact, it goes beyond that using paved shoulders. So it’s a very, very long facility.”

Protected cycling lanes will be constructed on either side of Hunt Club Road between Riverside Drive and Paul Benoit Driveway.

The 800-metre stretch was identified as a priority in the city’s 2013 cycling plan since it is a busy stretch of road, it connects to the Hunt Club bridge and because there are no other cycling routes nearby that allow riders to safely bypass it.

“I’m very pleased the preliminary phase with the design is ongoing, that the public are aware that this is the intent of the city,” said River Coun. Riley Brockington, whose ward includes that stretch of Hunt Club Road.

“It’s very bizarre that we have bike lanes down Hunt Club and then when you get to Paul Benoit to Riverside Drive, you’re on your own. It’s like no man’s land,” he said. “This needs to be addressed. It’s such a prominent east-west connector, you don’t see more bikes on there because it’s just too darn dangerous.”

The preliminary design is for a 2.5-metre wide multi-use pathway on the north side of the road that will be shared by pedestrians and westbound-travelling cyclists. There is no sidewalk or cycling track there currently.

That may require the removal of about 45 trees, but Krstulic said these would be replaced with 90 trees.

“I think 45 is a lot,” said Brockington, adding that staff have said that could be mitigated if the path doesn’t have to be straight.

Having the cycling lane at curb level is in keeping with the city’s philosophy to better protect cyclists on roads where traffic volumes and speeds are high.

The intersection at Hunt Club and Riverside sees an average of 80,000 vehicles pass through each weekday and often tops the city’s annual Top 10 list of high-collision intersections.

The segregated design reduces risk.

“Because of the volume and speed of traffic on Hunt Club I really don’t want to see anything other than segregated bike lanes,” he said. “It’s a road I would never even recommend my own residents to travel on.”

On the south side of the road, a raised 1.5-metre cycle track will be installed and buffered from the road. A 1.8-metre concrete sidewalk is proposed to replace the existing sidewalk, which will be separated from the bike lane.

The separation is needed because more pedestrians use this side of the roadway, where the busy T&T Supermarket and shopping plaza is located.

“We’d like to make sure the pedestrians maintain their own space,” Krstulic said.

The cost of the upgrade can’t be identified until after the design is completed in April 2018. A year will likely be set aside for its construction, though it may take less time, he added.

The project won’t be built until sometime between 2020 and 2025, though there is a possibility it could be expedited, perhaps phased in.

“In the upcoming years outside of this term of council in 2019 and beyond there will be a discussion about which projects we would be selected with the funds available,” Krstulic said. “There is great advantage to having a plan in place even though the implementation is further down the road.”

This means the route could be installed sooner if there is an opportunity to bundle it with other road or utility work being done in that area. As well, completing the design now allows staff to better fit ready-to-go projects into available budgets, he said.

At a recent meeting with the local Hunt Club Community Organization, city staff said the upgrades could be done as soon as 2020, said Brockington, who plans to advocate that it be done sooner rather than later.

“The volume and speed and safety should be reasons enough to get this fast-tracked,” he said. “Waiting until 2025 is not acceptable.”

This redesign comes on the heels of another stretch on Hunt Club to the east that was filled in within the last five years between Bank Street and the Sawmill Creek Pathway.

There are two more gaps that need to be completed, including a 700-metre link on Hunt Club from Bank Street to Cahill Drive in the South Keys and Greenboro communities, and 300 metres from Esson Street to Hawthorne Road in the Hunt Club Park neighbourhood.

Residents can provide input on the proposed design by emailing project manager Amir Zahabi at amir.zahabi@ottawa.ca, or calling 613-580-2424, ext. 16821.

Erin McCracken is a reporter/photographer with Metroland Media’s Ottawa South News. She can be reached at erin.mccracken@metroland.com. Follow her on Twitter and Facebook. Email: erin.mccracken@metroland.com

https://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/7558794-design-underway-to-fill-in-missing-cycling-link-on-dangerous-stretch-of-hunt-club-road/

[dougvdh]

[B][SIZE="4"]....There are two more gaps that need to be completed, including a 700-metre link on Hunt Club from Bank Street to Cahill Drive in the South Keys and Greenboro communities, and 300 metres from Esson Street to Hawthorne Road in the Hunt Club Park neighbourhood.....

The infrastructure gap starting near Essen is ridiculous. The bike lane just drops off without any prior warning in the middle of nowhere and you're suddenly getting squeezed between trucks doing 80+km/h and the curb.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3689347,-75.6097931,3a,75y,83.3h,78.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ4uE86MGNAyvCxVTRx9V_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[lrt's friend]

The infrastructure gap starting near Essen is ridiculous. The bike lane just drops off without any prior warning in the middle of nowhere and you're suddenly getting squeezed between trucks doing 80+km/h and the curb.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3689347,-75.6097931,3a,75y,83.3h,78.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ4uE86MGNAyvCxVTRx9V_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I never understood how that happened. Was that section of Hunt Club built before others and as result, no allowance for bikes? I seem to remember that Hunt Club was not built in sequence eastward from Bank. Except for a short dead end section off of Albion Road, the rest east of Bank was entirely new construction in the 1980s.

[TransitZilla]

The infrastructure gap starting near Essen is ridiculous. The bike lane just drops off without any prior warning in the middle of nowhere and you're suddenly getting squeezed between trucks doing 80+km/h and the curb.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3689347,-75.6097931,3a,75y,83.3h,78.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ4uE86MGNAyvCxVTRx9V_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

At least there's a curb dip so you can continue on the narrow paved not-quite-a-sidewalk.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3689347,-75.6097931,3a,75y,79.94h,95.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ4uE86MGNAyvCxVTRx9V_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

It doesn't look like it would take much effort to widen that and call it a MUP or cycle track.

[lrt's friend]

At least there's a curb dip so you can continue on the narrow paved not-quite-a-sidewalk.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3689347,-75.6097931,3a,75y,79.94h,95.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ4uE86MGNAyvCxVTRx9V_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

It doesn't look like it would take much effort to widen that and call it a MUP or cycle track.

Mind you, there is a multi-use trail that runs across Greenboro and Hunt Club within the neighbourhood itself that runs more or less parallel. It is much more pleasant and safer to ride on. For this reason, and because Hunt Club is a high speed road with lots of traffic and few destinations beyond, there are very few cyclists.

[TransitZilla]

Mind you, there is a multi-use trail that runs across Greenboro and Hunt Club within the neighbourhood itself that runs more or less parallel. It is much more pleasant and safer to ride on. For this reason, and because Hunt Club is a high speed road with lots of traffic and few destinations beyond, there are very few cyclists.

I agree, I would consider the Riverside-Paul Benoit and Bank-Cahill sections as much higher priority than this one. And I'd like to see a MUP connection between Cahill and Sieveright to provide a connection to the neighbourhoods south of Hunt Club.

[lrt's friend]

I agree, I would consider the Riverside-Paul Benoit and Bank-Cahill sections as much higher priority than this one. And I'd like to see a MUP connection between Cahill and Sieveright to provide a connection to the neighbourhoods south of Hunt Club.

No kidding. How do safely get to the Sawmill Creek trail from south of Hunt Club?

Hopefully with Phase 2 of the Trillium Line they will have a MUP over Hunt Club that will connect south and southeast.

My question about Findlay Creek, are they building a MUP through the community? I have not seen any evidence of this, which is a pity. I always thought that Greenboro was a good example for future development in that regard.

[dougvdh]

Mind you, there is a multi-use trail that runs across Greenboro and Hunt Club within the neighbourhood itself that runs more or less parallel. It is much more pleasant and safer to ride on. For this reason, and because Hunt Club is a high speed road with lots of traffic and few destinations beyond, there are very few cyclists.

Just keep in mind that if you're making a MUP your primary cycling artery as well as the leisure route for pedestrian, dog walkers, and little kids, you're sowing the seeds of user conflict; particularily as demand grows.

[Multi-modal]

Just keep in mind that if you're making a MUP your primary cycling artery as well as the leisure route for pedestrian, dog walkers, and little kids, you're sowing the seeds of user conflict; particularily as demand grows.

I'd agree with this, and may be one reason why developments like Greenboro (with the central MUP / parkspace ) have fallen out of favour vs. smaller parks & parallel streets (see River Mist Rd. paralleling Greenbank Road, in south Barrhaven, for example.). The other thing about the Greenboro pathway it separates pedestrian / cycling traffic from the vehicle traffic, which is a good thing, but it also reduces the number of users (eyes), which makes your main cycling / ped corridor feel a bit isolated at night. I still like Greenboro though... there was obviously a lot of care to pedestrian connectivity that went in to its design at the time.

I would also agree that the "missing link" east of Esson is not a priority... keep in mind that it wouldn't a road re-construction project but a dedicated cycling project. There are many other roads that require attention (and cycling budget) before that stretch. In addition to the Sieveright connection mentioned by others, an easy win would be to formalize the goatpath between Johnston and Swansea Cr / Stevenage , and to gradually improve the cycling facilities on Johnston.

[dougvdh]

. . .

I would also agree that the "missing link" east of Esson is not a priority...

In my opinion, the biggest issue with Essen missing link is where it occurs. If you're not familiar with the area (as I was not the first time I encountered abrupt end), it comes as a complete surprise. It would be better if that cycling lane ended at Malak or was continued to Essen than drop at an arbitary location partway in between.

[Multi-modal]

In my opinion, the biggest issue with Essen missing link is where it occurs. If you're not familiar with the area (as I was not the first time I encountered abrupt end), it comes as a complete surprise. It would be better if that cycling lane ended at Malak or was continued to Essen than drop at an arbitary location partway in between.

From the air, it looks like some road engineer's theory is trying to impart the following "the bike lane is ending, please cross the 2 lanes of traffic moving at 80km/h, into the left-turn lane, and turn left on to Esson". This is not obvious from the bike lane.

*Edit, the above theory above might make more sense if the bike lane continued approx. another 50 meters.

[dougvdh]

From the air, it looks like some road engineer's theory is trying to impart the following "the bike lane is ending, please cross the 2 lanes of traffic moving at 80km/h, into the left-turn lane, and turn left on to Esson". This is not obvious from the bike lane.

*Edit, the above theory above might make more sense if the bike lane continued approx. another 50 meters.

There's this nice little thing in the Cycling Facilities Design Book 18 called a jug-handle that address this situation, but would require extending the bikelane to the Essen intersection. An example of such can be found at Hemlock and Birch.

[Catenary]

I agree with this. And the Laurier lanes at times have SO much salt on them that it feels like riding on a gravel road. And while the pavement is bare of ice and thus "safe", one could skid on the darn salt chunks...

I believe the city is aware that cycle infrastructure requires different snow clearing methods as salt is less effective without the passing of cars to mix it in, and that cyclists do not appreciate salt as it ruins bicycles. The issue is that we not not have the critical mass of winter bicycle routes to justify separate clearing equipment, and we make do with existing sidewalk machines. There have been videos of city employees examining slow plows that follow with brooms in Montreal, and this is a much better long-term plan. Toronto has also tried makeshift solutions, including dragging car tires behind the salter to try and mix in the salt and start the melting process quicker.

[Multi-modal]

There's this nice little thing in the Cycling Facilities Design Book 18 called a jug-handle that address this situation, but would require extending the bikelane to the Essen intersection. An example of such can be found at Hemlock and Birch.

Ya, that would probably require the intersection be signalized though ($$). Although an unsignalized jug-handle combined with a median refuge might be safer than the current set-up.

[Uhuniau]

Also, there should be stricter enforcement of delivery trucks stopping on the side of the road for "quick" deliveries, especially when they can go to a parking garage nearby. No, a "quick" 5 min delivery is not quick compared to the regular flow of traffic.

How many delivery trucks fit into parking garages?

What is really needed is a culture shift in those firms which treat the roads as mobile warehouses. Urban deliveries need smaller vehicles. This means YOU, fast food restaurants downtown, who get deliveries from your central kitchens and warehouses using semis instead of something more suitably-sized.

It also means that there have to be safe spots for delivery trucks to pull over on commercial streets. That may mean - HORROR - the bike lobby may have to put some water in its w(h)ine.

[Catenary]

Ya, that would probably require the intersection be signalized though ($$). Although an unsignalized jug-handle combined with a median refuge might be safer than the current set-up.

There is a combo bicycle left turn lane-bike box to make the left off Parkdale onto the NCC MUP.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4111186,-75.7352891,3a,75y,343.21h,75.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKNZgz-OmpQsf430RYP2AlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[Catenary]

How many delivery trucks fit into parking garages?

What is really needed is a culture shift in those firms which treat the roads as mobile warehouses. Urban deliveries need smaller vehicles. This means YOU, fast food restaurants downtown, who get deliveries from your central kitchens and warehouses using semis instead of something more suitably-sized.

It also means that there have to be safe spots for delivery trucks to pull over on commercial streets. That may mean - HORROR - the bike lobby may have to put some water in its w(h)ine.

If that "safe spot" blocks a cycle lane and forces cyclists into traffic, then it really isn't a safe spot. Loading zones do not have to overlap with cycle lanes.

[Buggys]

How many delivery trucks fit into parking garages?

What is really needed is a culture shift in those firms which treat the roads as mobile warehouses. Urban deliveries need smaller vehicles. This means YOU, fast food restaurants downtown, who get deliveries from your central kitchens and warehouses using semis instead of something more suitably-sized.

It also means that there have to be safe spots for delivery trucks to pull over on commercial streets. That may mean - HORROR - the bike lobby may have to put some water in its w(h)ine.

Usually, it's just 1 delivery truck at a time, not all at once. Delivery trucks can also park on side streets, while a smaller cart is used to move the stuff closer to the destination. Driveways can also be made wider so that a delivery truck can make a stop without impeding the flow of traffic. And also, smaller trucks can be used, like you suggested. ...There are lots of options for delivery trucks to not block the flow of traffic on the road.

[dougvdh]

Usually, it's just 1 delivery truck at a time, not all at once. Delivery trucks can also park on side streets, while a smaller cart is used to move the stuff closer to the destination. Driveways can also be made wider so that a delivery truck can make a stop without impeding the flow of traffic. And also, smaller trucks can be used, like you suggested. ...There are lots of options for delivery trucks to not block the flow of traffic on the road.

One version of the 'last mile' delivery for urban areas: http://fleximodal.fr/en/pallet-delivery/

[Uhuniau]

I believe the city is aware that cycle infrastructure requires different snow clearing methods as salt is less effective without the passing of cars to mix it in, and that cyclists do not appreciate salt as it ruins bicycles. The issue is that we not not have the critical mass of winter bicycle routes to justify separate clearing equipment, and we make do with existing sidewalk machines. There have been videos of city employees examining slow plows that follow with brooms in Montreal, and this is a much better long-term plan. Toronto has also tried makeshift solutions, including dragging car tires behind the salter to try and mix in the salt and start the melting process quicker.

This place has a serious addiction to salt. Bashed the hell out of my knee the other winter ascending the steps at World Exchange plaza: the over-abundance of salt made it like walking on marbles. A pair of winter boots on my feet doesn't last more than one winter here.

[Uhuniau]

If that "safe spot" blocks a cycle lane and forces cyclists into traffic, then it really isn't a safe spot.

Yip.

Loading zones do not have to overlap with cycle lanes.

They will pretty much have to, if the city and the bike lobby insists on placing new curbside cycle lanes on streets which have pre-existing loading docks, ramps, or other delivery accesses.

[Multi-modal]

Yip.
They will pretty much have to, if the city and the bike lobby insists on placing new curbside cycle lanes on streets which have pre-existing loading docks, ramps, or other delivery accesses.

Ya I don't really see a problem with this though, just make loading zones like bus bays with standard cycle track treatment.

[dougvdh]

Yip.



They will pretty much have to, if the city and the bike lobby insists on placing new curbside cycle lanes on streets which have pre-existing loading docks, ramps, or other delivery accesses.

It's already being done. Laurier has loading zones that the bike lane bypasses: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.416193,-75.7047355,3a,75y,75.7h,91.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slVD10Ku2xvr0aSVh3B9Jcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[PHrenetic]

It's already being done. Laurier has loading zones that the bike lane bypasses: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.416193,-75.7047355,3a,75y,75.7h,91.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slVD10Ku2xvr0aSVh3B9Jcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Good Day....

yeah, I was waiting for someone to bring this one up.... I've used it - both as loading zone and as cyclist.....only one problem:

When actually using it as a loading zone, with right side doors open - INTO the cycling lane (which you must do due to lane size), cyclists yell at you for using the LOADING ZONE. My reply - It's a LOADING ZONE, so please be careful. The answer I got - varied between fingers up to expletives deleted ! IE - the usual denegration from that massive quantity of a minority of abusive and abusing cyclists.
Sorry about that, but true.
This is the response I am afraid I am to expect from the massively fouled up Booth St. bridge / Pimisi LRT Station. Massive disrespect from the massive minority who ruin it for everybody due to a lack of mutual respect and a necessary exercise of due caution - as ALL traffic should and must obey.

No EnJoy!

[Multi-modal]

Good Day....

yeah, I was waiting for someone to bring this one up.... I've used it - both as loading zone and as cyclist.....only one problem:

When actually using it as a loading zone, with right side doors open - INTO the cycling lane (which you must do due to lane size), cyclists yell at you for using the LOADING ZONE. My reply - It's a LOADING ZONE, so please be careful. The answer I got - varied between fingers up to expletives deleted ! IE - the usual denegration from that massive quantity of a minority of abusive and abusing cyclists.
Sorry about that, but true.
This is the response I am afraid I am to expect from the massively fouled up Booth St. bridge / Pimisi LRT Station. Massive disrespect from the massive minority who ruin it for everybody due to a lack of mutual respect and a necessary exercise of due caution - as ALL traffic should and must obey.

No EnJoy!

The way it was done on Laurier is due to constrained ROW, etc... Perhaps constrained ROW is sort of a default on commercial streets, but none-the-less the preferred treatment (as with bus stops) would be to have a couple meters between the curb and the cycle track to allow for loading and unloading (or boarding and alighting).

[Multi-modal]

The new stretch of cycle track for eastbound Heron between Colbert Crescent and Jefferson Street is almost done. Looks like they just need to do some markings. At the bus stops they put the shelters behind the cycle track again (unfortunately). They also put a rumble strip on both sides of the cycle track at the bus stop, which is overkill in my opinion... plus they corrugated the concrete on either side of the bus stop. A picture would help to understand this, but I was there at night and the pictures aren't really any good.

[roger1818]

This is the response I am afraid I am to expect from the massively fouled up Booth St. bridge / Pimisi LRT Station. Massive disrespect from the massive minority who ruin it for everybody due to a lack of mutual respect and a necessary exercise of due caution - as ALL traffic should and must obey.

And that is the rub. Many (Most?) non-cyclists have a very negative view of cyclists due to a minority who give all a bad name. :(

[Uhuniau]

Good Day....

yeah, I was waiting for someone to bring this one up.... I've used it - both as loading zone and as cyclist.....only one problem:

When actually using it as a loading zone, with right side doors open - INTO the cycling lane (which you must do due to lane size), cyclists yell at you for using the LOADING ZONE. My reply - It's a LOADING ZONE, so please be careful. The answer I got - varied between fingers up to expletives deleted ! IE - the usual denegration from that massive quantity of a minority of abusive and abusing cyclists.

Similar to the Nightmare on Beechwood: When bus 6 (formerly 1) descends from Rockcliffe Park along Acacia, the driver can't safely turn right onto Beechwood without poking a little bit out, as there is no other way to see if there's oncoming traffic. That puts the bus into the bike lane, and that puts bikists in bad humour, judging by how many of them will greet the bus driver with less than a full complement of fingers as they wave.

[Uhuniau]

The new stretch of cycle track for eastbound Heron between Colbert Crescent and Jefferson Street is almost done. Looks like they just need to do some markings. At the bus stops they put the shelters behind the cycle track again (unfortunately).

This is going to get someone killed.

[Multi-modal]

This is going to get someone killed.

You exaggerate. Injured, maybe. Killed... possible but unlikely.

I think a better point has been brought up before, which is that it locates the shelter at a location that is more difficult for transit drivers to notice, and it makes transit users nervous to actually use the shelter less they be missed.

[TransitZilla]

No kidding. How do safely get to the Sawmill Creek trail from south of Hunt Club?


My route is the one in red, but the blue route also works depending on where you're coming from.

I have a short stretch on Bank on my inbound route that I use because it's faster. Home bound, I use the pathway to Monet Ct which requires a short stretch of riding on a fairly narrow Hunt Club Rd. "sidewalk".

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4341/36938584350_b2df29e59f_b.jpg


Hopefully with Phase 2 of the Trillium Line they will have a MUP over Hunt Club that will connect south and southeast.


That's the plan as far as I understand it. The Sawmill Creek pathway is to extend the length of the Trillium line extension. and include a connection to
the Bridle Path area.


My question about Findlay Creek, are they building a MUP through the community? I have not seen any evidence of this, which is a pity. I always thought that Greenboro was a good example for future development in that regard.

There are plans for some pathways but nothing as extensive as there is in Greenboro, unfortunately.

[Uhuniau]

You exaggerate. Injured, maybe. Killed... possible but unlikely.

Not an exaggeration, especially if the person struck is elderly or otherwise frail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41263926

I think a better point has been brought up before, which is that it locates the shelter at a location that is more difficult for transit drivers to notice, and it makes transit users nervous to actually use the shelter less they be missed.

Those are also good points, points which have been made over and over and over again to city officials, who promptly ignore them, because they are not aware of, or are wilfully blind to, the idiotic consequences of their stupid preferred designs and alignments for cycle tracks.

[Multi-modal]

Not an exaggeration, especially if the person struck is elderly or otherwise frail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41263926



I wasn't saying that it isn't possible that a pedestrian (or cyclist) might die in a pedestrian-cyclist collision, just that the risk shouldn't be exaggerated when compared to this risk involved in a vehicle-pedestrian or vehicle-cyclists incident.

From the article you posted, there were 2 deaths in the UK in 2015, and 6 in 2014. Something to be avoided (including avoiding, whenever possible, bad design that puts cyclists and pedestrians in conflict), but not a very high number. Like I said though, I'm sure the rate of injury is much higher, not to mention putting pedestrians on-edge and a lot of pissed off people.

For a busy arterial road I would rate the City's treatments thus:
1. Cycle track between the bus shelter / stop area and the sidewalk
2. Cycle track between a smaller stop area (space for boarding and alighting) and the sidewalk, but with the shelter behind the sidewalk. This is the design hated by many in this forum, but I don't think its all that bad. This design may be necessary if isn't room to pull the sidewalk and cycle track behind a shelter.... but City designers should really be going for #1 way more often than they do. They seem to be lazily defaulting for #2.
3. Bike lane on-road, with bus stopping in the bike lane.
4. Cycle track between the curb and the sidewalk. No boarding and alighting space. I would put a couple of the Southbound stops on Main Street in this category. There isn't enough room to board / alight, and you basically have to step off the bus on to the cycle track. #4 should be avoided at all cost.

[roger1818]

I wasn't saying that it isn't possible that a pedestrian (or cyclist) might die in a pedestrian-cyclist collision, just that the risk shouldn't be exaggerated when compared to this risk involved in a vehicle-pedestrian or vehicle-cyclists incident.

From the article you posted, there were 2 deaths in the UK in 2015, and 6 in 2014. Something to be avoided (including avoiding, whenever possible, bad design that puts cyclists and pedestrians in conflict), but not a very high number. Like I said though, I'm sure the rate of injury is much higher, not to mention putting pedestrians on-edge and a lot of pissed off people.

For a busy arterial road I would rate the City's treatments thus:
1. Cycle track between the bus shelter / stop area and the sidewalk
2. Cycle track between a smaller stop area (space for boarding and alighting) and the sidewalk, but with the shelter behind the sidewalk. This is the design hated by many in this forum, but I don't think its all that bad. This design may be necessary if isn't room to pull the sidewalk and cycle track behind a shelter.... but City designers should really be going for #1 way more often than they do. They seem to be lazily defaulting for #2.
3. Bike lane on-road, with bus stopping in the bike lane.
4. Cycle track between the curb and the sidewalk. No boarding and alighting space. I would put a couple of the Southbound stops on Main Street in this category. There isn't enough room to board / alight, and you basically have to step off the bus on to the cycle track. #4 should be avoided at all cost.

How about cycle track to the left of the bus lane so that bicycles are passing on the left (like required by other vehicles) and away from the pedestrians? If the bus needs to cross the cycle track, the cyclist must yield to the bus (like all other vehicles) with signs posted posted (painted on the track) indicating that.

[Multi-modal]

How about cycle track to the left of the bus lane so that bicycles are passing on the left (like required by other vehicles) and away from the pedestrians? If the bus needs to cross the cycle track, the cyclist must yield to the bus (like all other vehicles) with signs posted posted (painted on the track) indicating that.

So the cycle track becomes a bicycle lane and is located to the left of a dedicated bus lane?

1. That assumes there is a dedicated bus lane, or do you mean like a bus bay?
2. Would the cyclist always have to go the left of the bus lane, even if there is no bus?
3. What happens if a cyclists attempts to pass a bus on the left, but then the bus pulls out of the bus lane.

I'm intrigued, I guess I just don't really understand how this would work. Any examples?

*Edit, apparently I really like numbering things today.

[roger1818]

So the cycle track becomes a bicycle lane and is located to the left of a dedicated bus lane?

It depends on the situation, but possibly.

1. That assumes there is a dedicated bus lane, or do you mean like a bus bay?

It could be either. If it is a bus lane, you could have a cycle track to the left of it. If it is a bus bay, it would become a bicycle lane.

2. Would the cyclist always have to go the left of the bus lane, even if there is no bus?

Bus lanes are usually for buses only, so I would say yes, unless vehicles are permitted. It also is safer for bicycles to follow a straight, predictable track than to weave in and out.

3. What happens if a cyclists attempts to pass a bus on the left, but then the bus pulls out of the bus lane.

Properly the bus should have some space to accelerate before pulling out to give the cyclist warning that the bus is about to change lanes.

I'm intrigued, I guess I just don't really understand how this would work. Any examples?

A bike lane not a cycle track (though I would really like to see it become more of a cycle track) but March Rd at Solandt (https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3430998,-75.9171837,3a,31.8y,339.87h,84.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9z_o97PKRdxPXn5eLFaQeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en).

[zzptichka]

Floating bus stop is the proven best practice. Insert raised pedestrian crossing or rumble strips for those concerned with phantom deaths.

https://i.imgur.com/f0ZTDzA.png

[Lakeofthewood]

I understand why there are safer options than what was done on Heron (and Main), but really, can we not just have:

- cyclists who are aware enough of their surroundings to notice a bus dropping passengers off and slow down;
- pedestrians / transit users who can look both ways before boarding / alighting from buses?

Yes we should design and construct things to the best possible standards, but when things are constrained can we not have people take a litttttttle bit of responsibility for their actions?

/rant

[Uhuniau]

I wasn't saying that it isn't possible that a pedestrian (or cyclist) might die in a pedestrian-cyclist collision, just that the risk shouldn't be exaggerated when compared to this risk involved in a vehicle-pedestrian or vehicle-cyclists incident.

From the article you posted, there were 2 deaths in the UK in 2015, and 6 in 2014. Something to be avoided (including avoiding, whenever possible, bad design that puts cyclists and pedestrians in conflict), but not a very high number. Like I said though, I'm sure the rate of injury is much higher, not to mention putting pedestrians on-edge and a lot of pissed off people.

Even though the risk isn't overly high, I really don't know why the city is so intent on creating this risk, and general user conflict, by design, especially in locations where it can be mitigated.

And even without the risk and conflict, it's just a crappy thing to do to transit users: in inclement weather, you can lurk in the shelter, set far back from the curb (and often away from the flag), at the totally not-abstract risk of being left behind at the stop, or you can wait in the rain and snow.

It's just dumb.

For a busy arterial road I would rate the City's treatments thus:
1. Cycle track between the bus shelter / stop area and the sidewalk

Between the shelter and the sidewalk? That's the very conflict we need to avoid.

[Uhuniau]

I understand why there are safer options than what was done on Heron (and Main), but really, can we not just have:

- cyclists who are aware enough of their surroundings to notice a bus dropping passengers off and slow down;

In an ideal world, yes.

- pedestrians / transit users who can look both ways before boarding / alighting from buses?

I look both ways before crossing ANYTHING, having nearly been smooshed before by wrong-way drivers on more than one occasion. Remember, though, some people can't look any way at all.

Yes we should design and construct things to the best possible standards, but when things are constrained can we not have people take a litttttttle bit of responsibility for their actions?

I think people should take a lot of responsibility for their actions, but just as apartment balconies have railings, by design, cycle tracks need to be made safer, by design. Putting the cycle track in the way of transit users and pedestrians when there is physically room to not do that, is bad design.

[Multi-modal]

It depends on the situation, but possibly.
A bike lane not a cycle track (though I would really like to see it become more of a cycle track) but March Rd at Solandt (https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3430998,-75.9171837,3a,31.8y,339.87h,84.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9z_o97PKRdxPXn5eLFaQeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en).

Ya, I'm not convinced a cycle track island between a vehicle lane and bus lane would make a ton of sense, nor feel comfortable unless its a very wide cycle track island. It makes sense with continuous bus lanes, along road segments... but at intersections the bus / cycle / vehicle conflicts would get very confusing. Plus, what if a bicycle wants to stop at a shop or something. They'd have to stop in the middle of the road, pick up their bicycle and run across the bus lane.

The only time I could see this making sense is a bus has to pull over to a major platform and layover space, like at westbound Scott Street, at Westboro station... even then its a bit of an awkward situation with murky conflict areas.

[Multi-modal]

Between the shelter and the sidewalk? That's the very conflict we need to avoid.

Well if its a cycle track (i.e. off-road) then you either have to put it between the shelter and the sidewalk (shelter is closest to curb, pedestrian conflict when pedestrians are moving between the shelter and the sidewalk) or between the sidewalk and the road curb (shelter is far away from curb, pedestrian conflict when transit users are moving between the shelter / sidewalk and the transit vehicle).

Where would you propose putting a cycle track?

[Uhuniau]

Well if its a cycle track (i.e. off-road) then you either have to put it between the shelter and the sidewalk (shelter is closest to curb, pedestrian conflict when pedestrians are moving between the shelter and the sidewalk) or between the sidewalk and the road curb (shelter is far away from curb, pedestrian conflict when transit users are moving between the shelter / sidewalk and the transit vehicle).

Where would you propose putting a cycle track?

When it runs adjacent to the shelter, on the side of the shelter that doesn't face the street, no matter where the sidewalk or other pedestrian walk is.

The shelter (if there is one) should never be more than its own width away from the curb where passengers embark/disembark. The cycle track, unless there is no other option due to space constraints, should never, ever, ever be between the shelter, bench, or basic bus stop where passengers will be waiting or disembarking.

I have not yet seen an example in Ottawa where there was room enough to put a cycle track, but somehow not room enough to have it go behind the back side of a bus shelter. The examples on Main and St. Patrick that I'm most familiar with are very bad ones, but I'm at least glad that the bike people seem happy about it.

Too bad it's always transit service and safety that is compromised in these matters.

[Multi-modal]

When it runs adjacent to the shelter, on the side of the shelter that doesn't face the street, no matter where the sidewalk or other pedestrian walk is.

The shelter (if there is one) should never be more than its own width away from the curb where passengers embark/disembark. The cycle track, unless there is no other option due to space constraints, should never, ever, ever be between the shelter, bench, or basic bus stop where passengers will be waiting or disembarking.

I have not yet seen an example in Ottawa where there was room enough to put a cycle track, but somehow not room enough to have it go behind the back side of a bus shelter. The examples on Main and St. Patrick that I'm most familiar with are very bad ones, but I'm at least glad that the bike people seem happy about it.

Too bad it's always transit service and safety that is compromised in these matters.

I think we agree then, we are just getting confused by eachother's descriptions.

I agree the one at St. Patrick and Cobourg is dumb. They absolutely had room (no add. space required) to switch the shelter and cycle track position. Would have been much better. Same with some of the new ones on Main. I think even cycling advocates would agree that moving the shelter closer to the roadway (1 shelter width as you say) would be the preferred arrangement.

I think sometimes though that the City is used to putting the shelter outside of the road ROW by negotiating with property owners (hey can we put this shelter on your front lawn), but maybe would have to negotiate / buy more property if they had to put the cycle track behind the shelter in a proper "floating bus stop"??? I don't know. Hopefully the City gets better at it as they develop more standards for cycle tracks...

[Buggys]

How about cycle track to the left of the bus lane so that bicycles are passing on the left (like required by other vehicles) and away from the pedestrians? If the bus needs to cross the cycle track, the cyclist must yield to the bus (like all other vehicles) with signs posted posted (painted on the track) indicating that.

So cyclists could be riding between a bus on the right and car on the left? Motorcyclists, sure. But cyclists, no way, hosay! That's almost more dangerous than having no bike lane.

[roger1818]

So cyclists could be riding between a bus on the right and car on the left? Motorcyclists, sure. But cyclists, no way, hosay! That's almost more dangerous than having no bike lane.

Not quite sure why it would be safer for a motorcyclist. I have cycled passed buses, on the left, stopped to pick up passengers, usually without a bike lane. I never found it dangerous. There are many cases where the safest place for a cyclist is with vehicles on both sides of you. Squeezing between a bus and the sidewalk where passengers are getting on and off the bus would seem much more dangerous to me.

In the case of the cycle track left of a bus lane, there would be barricades on both sides of the track, so its not like you could be squeezed out.

If you don't feel it is safe, you could always stop behind the bus and wait for it to go. That would have the added advantage of making it so you won't constantly be playing leap frog with the bus.

[jimmyjones]

If you don't feel it is safe, you could always stop behind the bus and wait for it to go. That would have the added advantage of making it so you won't constantly be playing leap frog with the bus.

But oh god the fumes and noise. The soot/exhaust that comes out of OC Transpo buses is bad news. Electric buses can come soon enough.

[AndyMEng]

But oh god the fumes and noise. The soot/exhaust that comes out of OC Transpo buses is bad news. Electric buses can come soon enough.

In fact that's what the city asks cyclists to do. I read that somewhere once but can't recall where. Bikes should avoid playing leapfrog with buses.

On another similar note, at the bottom of the Booth Street highway overpass, going south, I usually don't get trapped at the dead end bike lane, but the other day I did (a green light travelling south from the booth bridge means that cyclists turning left have to stop in the bike lane and try to not get hit by cars on both sides travelling at highway speeds). Definitely didn't feel safe at all. What a shitty design. Once the light turns red for the bridge, cyclists can join pedestrians and move towards the continuation of the bike lane travelling east/west.

Its almost like people designing bike infrastructure don't bike?

Edit: Wow, so I tried to find the google map satellite view to illustrate my point, and its at least 5 years old at this location.... booth street is still at grade in the image...

[PHrenetic]

........

Edit: Wow, so I tried to find the google map satellite view to illustrate my point, and its at least 5 years old at this location.... booth street is still at grade in the image...

Good Day....

yeah, I've noticed this often in the past few years - more up-to-date images appearing and then disappearing along the whole line - both sat and street.
It's almost as if they are keeping the newer images to themselves - or is that more likely on a private-for-profit subscription-only subsidiary :???:
But then I'm paranoid.:koko:

EnJoy!

[Buggys]

Not quite sure why it would be safer for a motorcyclist. I have cycled passed buses, on the left, stopped to pick up passengers, usually without a bike lane. I never found it dangerous. There are many cases where the safest place for a cyclist is with vehicles on both sides of you. Squeezing between a bus and the sidewalk where passengers are getting on and off the bus would seem much more dangerous to me.

In the case of the cycle track left of a bus lane, there would be barricades on both sides of the track, so its not like you could be squeezed out.

If you don't feel it is safe, you could always stop behind the bus and wait for it to go. That would have the added advantage of making it so you won't constantly be playing leap frog with the bus.

If there was no bike lane, I'd be riding on the pavement, or the middle of the lane if it were a slower street.

When you're on a bike lane between car lanes, you can't pause to adjust the bike or your stuff, even though you're in your own lane, because cars may want to change lanes, crossing your lane. However, bike lanes next to the pavement provide that opportunity to pause, or lean to fall on the safe side if you hit a rock & have to fall.

[rocketphish]

Ontario pledges $1M investment in bike parking at province's tourist attractions
A new fund will provide money for racks, rings and lockers for Ontario tourism and cultural attractions like the Royal Ontario Museum and Art Gallery of Ontario.

By: May Warren, Metro
Published on Mon Sep 25 2017

More bike parking is on the way as part of Ontario's climate-change plan.

Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport Eleanor McMahon, herself an avid cyclist, announced Monday that $1 million will go toward better bike parking at museums and cultural attractions, including bike racks, rings and indoor lockers and storage rooms.

"This investment will help make our communities more cycling-friendly and encourage more people to leave their cars at home and ride their bikes instead," said Minister McMahon in a release.

The money comes from the government's cap-and-trade program, which puts a hard cap on carbon emissions but lets companies buy or sell carbon credits.

A spokesperson for the minister said the institutions have yet to be determined, but 14 across the province are eligible to apply, including the Royal Ontario Museum, Art Gallery of Ontario, Metro Toronto Convention Centre, Ontario Place and the Ontario Science Centre.

Two GTA spots, the Royal Botanical Gardens in Burlington and the McMichael Canadian Art Collection in Kleinburg, are also eligible.

Officials also recently announced plans for bike lockers at Southern Ontario Go Stations and carpool lots.

Ontario's five-year climate-change action plan aims to reduce emissions to 15 per cent below 1990 levels by 2020, 37 per cent by 2030 and 80 per cent by 2050. Along with lowering emissions, the cyclist-friendly parking is meant to support the province's new tourism plan Tour by Bike.

While the announcement will mean more options for cyclists, the province is still far behind places like the Netherlands. In the Dutch city of Utrecht, for example, a giant indoor parking lot with eventual room for 12,500 bikes opened in 2016, the Guardian reported.


Places eligible for bike parking funding:


Fort William Historical Park (Thunder Bay)
Discovery Harbour (Penetanguishene)
St. Marie Among the Huron (Midland)
Art Gallery of Ontario (Toronto)
McMichael Canadian Art Collection (Kleinburg)
Metro Toronto Convention Centre (Toronto)
Niagara Parks Commission (Niagara)
Ontario Place (Toronto)
Ontario Science Centre (Toronto)
Ottawa Convention Centre (Ottawa)
Royal Botanical Gardens (Burlington)
Royal Ontario Museum (Toronto)
St. Lawrence Parks Commission (Eastern Ontario)
Science North (Sudbury)


http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2017/09/25/bike-parking-coming-to-ontario-tourist-attractions-will-make-communities-more-cycling-friendly-minister.html

[roger1818]

Ottawa Convention Centre (Ottawa)


a.k.a. The Shaw Centre. The only provincial "tourist attraction" in Ottawa.

[agl]

I was walking on Lyon yesterday and saw bike sharrows painted on the curbside lane by the Lyon LRT station. With major STO bus route changes being implemented once Confederation Line opens next year (see map at bottom of page here (http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=87&L=en&tx_ttnews[backPid]=248&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14189&cHash=18578133ad399f24de58673a530e38df)), does anyone know if the city has a plan for how cyclists headed eastbound on Wellington are expected to navigate all the cars and buses turning right at Lyon? Also, how are cyclists heading south on Lyon supposed to deal with all the STO buses stopping outside the Lyon LRT station?

Coming off the Portage Bridge in the mornings I have been avoiding mixing with the buses eastbound on Wellington by cycling for a couple hundred metres on the northside sidewalk in front of Library and Archives, and unless the city has a bike friendly solution to these new route changes by STO, I'll be staying on there.

[McC]

I think a counterflow lane on Bay would solve a lot of problems (though I'm not sure there's space), I see lots of people ride south from Wellington on the west-side sidewalk to Sparks.

[MarkR]

I think a counterflow lane on Bay would solve a lot of problems (though I'm not sure there's space), I see lots of people ride south from Wellington on the west-side sidewalk to Sparks.

There's definitely not space, which I presume is why the City still has the signage up for the shared sidewalk on that west side. (Those signs have been there for over twenty years, and there are similar ones on both sides of Catherine St. from Percy to Bay.)

It will be interesting to see how they sort this out, as there's a disturbing lack of coherence with some of the bike infrastructure projects.

[Multi-modal]

I was walking on Lyon yesterday and saw bike sharrows painted on the curbside lane by the Lyon LRT station. With major STO bus route changes being implemented once Confederation Line opens next year (see map at bottom of page here (http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=87&L=en&tx_ttnews[backPid]=248&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14189&cHash=18578133ad399f24de58673a530e38df)), does anyone know if the city has a plan for how cyclists headed eastbound on Wellington are expected to navigate all the cars and buses turning right at Lyon? Also, how are cyclists heading south on Lyon supposed to deal with all the STO buses stopping outside the Lyon LRT station?

Coming off the Portage Bridge in the mornings I have been avoiding mixing with the buses eastbound on Wellington by cycling for a couple hundred metres on the northside sidewalk in front of Library and Archives, and unless the city has a bike friendly solution to these new route changes by STO, I'll be staying on there.

I'm pretty sure about 50% of people who cycle on that section of Wellington cycle on the north sidewalk. There are plans for a north side bi-directional bike lane on Wellington.... maybe this will increase its priority.

[McC]

There's definitely not space, which I presume is why the City still has the signage up for the shared sidewalk on that west side. (Those signs have been there for over twenty years, and there are similar ones on both sides of Catherine St. from Percy to Bay.)
.

is there? neat. I've never seen that sign. I avoid that block completely by using the Garden of the Provinces and Territories (love those ramps, except for their ridiculous Oct-Apr closure)

[rocketphish]

Laurier bike lane audit recommends more colours, longer buffers, fewer signs

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 3, 2017 | Last Updated: October 3, 2017 5:30 PM EDT

A safety audit of the Laurier Avenue segregated bike lanes, launched after the death of a cyclist last year, recommends adding more colouring, warning infrastructure and barriers along the increasingly popular downtown cycling route.

The Dutch firm Mobycon, which has an Ottawa office, completed the audit in early September and the city shared the results with council on Tuesday.

The greatest safety concern for cyclists and pedestrians in the bike-lane stretch of Laurier Avenue is right-turning vehicles, the audit says.

The audit makes about 14 recommendations to improve the safety, and while the city is onboard with most of the ideas, it’s not supporting a handful of suggestions.

The use of the bike lanes increased from 2,331 trips per day in 2012 to 4,128 trips per day in 2016.

Between 2007 and 2010, before the bike lanes were installed, there were 242 reported collisions, with 26 involving pedestrians and 20 involving cyclists. Between 2012 and 2015, after the bike lanes were installed, there were 221 reported collisions, with 13 involving pedestrians and 35 involving cyclists.

The increase in cyclist-related collisions can be attributed to the growth in the number of cyclists in the corridor, the report says.

Transportation general manager John Manconi sent a memo to council outlining the city’s position on the recommendations.

The city doesn’t want to colour the entire length of the bike lanes because transportation and traffic standards call for green treatment only in “conflict zones,” where cyclists and motorists cross paths. Plus, it would cost the city $600,000.

The city is installing green thermoplastic at driveways between Metcalfe and Elgin streets and extending the lane buffers in the same stretch.

Removing Laurier Avenue as a trucking route is also a non-starter for the city. It would result in trucks making more turns in the downtown core, and besides, trucks need to access destinations on Laurier Avenue, the city says.

Restricting vehicles from using Laurier Avenue as a downtown through-route is out of the question for the city, too. The idea involves forcing vehicles to turn at specific intersections and limiting through-traffic.

The city doesn’t support having dedicated traffic signal phases for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s willing to review the idea when the Transitway is decommissioned on Albert and Slater streets as part of LRT and staff look to update all signal timing downtown. The city plans to have an advanced bike signal phase at bike lane intersections done by this fall or next spring.

While the audit recommends pushing parking spaces away from driveway openings to increase visibility, the city says it’s something it will need to review.

Raising the bike lanes, narrowing the vehicle lanes and redesigning intersections will be considered when the section of Laurier Avenue needs to be reconstructed, the city says.

However, the city is willing to adopt other suggestions in the audit, such as extending the bike lane barriers closer to driveways so vehicles must make tighter turns in a more narrow space.

The city will also look into adding tactile infrastructure at driveways to warn vehicle drivers that they’re crossing a bike lane.

The audit recommends removing excessive signage so drivers aren’t overwhelmed by the visual clutter. The city says it will do that immediately.

The city ordered the safety audit after a tragedy on Laurier Avenue just over a year ago.

Nusrat Jahan, 23, was killed Sept. 1, 2016 after she collided with a truck as she rode her bike near Laurier Avenue and Lyon Street. The truck driver was charged with criminal negligence causing death and dangerous driving causing death.

Right-turning vehicles are still big safety threats on Laurier, accounting for about half of the collisions involving people who are walking or on bikes.

Nevertheless, the audit consultants say the bike lanes are a positive addition to the downtown area.

“What this report has learned is that Laurier Avenue is moving in the right direction,” the report says. “The implementation of the (bike lanes) has resulted in a safety improvement for both cyclists and most significantly, pedestrians.”

The city says it’s launching a bike-lane awareness campaign next spring called Get There With Care.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/laurier-bike-lane-audit-recommends-more-colours-longer-buffers-fewer-signs

[eltodesukane]

I see bicycles all the time on Baseline Road, with cars, buses and trucks rushing along. Very unsafe.
Would it be so hard to build a proper bike lane there?
If needed, could it not encroach a few feet on the Experimental Farm?
https://i.imgur.com/31DhsaN.jpg

[zzptichka]

I see bicycles all the time on Baseline Road, with cars, buses and trucks rushing along. Very unsafe.
Would it be so hard to build a proper bike lane there?
If needed, could it not encroach a few feet on the Experimental Farm?


MUP on the farm side is part of the Baseline BRT project (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=222820). Construction scheduled to begin in 2020.

[roger1818]

MUP on the farm side is part of the Baseline BRT project (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=222820). Construction scheduled to begin in 2020.

I don't see a MUP as a replacement for a bike lane. MUPs are great for Sunday riders, but bike lanes are better for commuters who want to get from A to B quickly.

The problem with adding a bike lanes is they will need to move the curb, and that is only economical when redoing the road (like will be done for the BRT project).

[zzptichka]

I don't see a MUP as a replacement for a bike lane. MUPs are great for Sunday riders, but bike lanes are better for commuters who want to get from A to B quickly.

The problem with adding a bike lanes is they will need to move the curb, and that is only economical when redoing the road (like will be done for the BRT project).

Ideally you want both, lanes and a MUP. But if it's one or another then it has to be MUP.

[dougvdh]

Ideally you want both, lanes and a MUP. But if it's one or another then it has to be MUP.

Ideal is probably the config that is used on the south (Beech to Carling) portion of the OTrain MUP where there is a two way cycle track, half curb, and then a sidewalk. This greatly reduces conflicts between uses and allows for Cross-Rides at the Carling without the HTA driven goofy-ness of not being able to bike in a crosswalk that plagues all the crossings on the Albert and Scott MUPs.

[zzptichka]

Ideal is probably the config that is used on the south (Beech to Carling) portion of the OTrain MUP where there is a two way cycle track, half curb, and then a sidewalk. This greatly reduces conflicts between uses and allows for Cross-Rides at the Carling without the HTA driven goofy-ness of not being able to bike in a crosswalk that plagues all the crossings on the Albert and Scott MUPs.

I'd argue it would probably be an overkill for that stretch. There won't be much foot traffic along the farm. And of course there will still be sidewalks on each side to the West of Merivale.

[dougvdh]

I'd argue it would probably be an overkill for that stretch. There won't be much foot traffic along the farm. And of course there will still be sidewalks on each side to the West of Merivale.

Probably is, but that's the only way the City will allow an intersection without the pointless 'Cyclists Dismount' signs.

[MarkR]

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 3, 2017 | Last Updated: October 3, 2017 5:30 PM EDT[/B]

(snip)

Raising the bike lanes, narrowing the vehicle lanes and redesigning intersections will be considered when the section of Laurier Avenue needs to be reconstructed, the city says.

(snip)


Please no, I hope they never raise the Laurier lanes up to sidewalk level. That's just asking for those lanes to fill up with what should NOT be in bike lanes (pedestrians, motorized wheelchairs, etc).

Case in point: Laurier Ave. in Gatineau now has a raised bike lane eastbound in front of Jacques Cartier Park. I made three trips in the past month along there and each time all the peds. were just spread out right across the whole thing. And many of them acted like you were being the jerk in riding your bike along their big wide sidewalk.

[lrt's friend]

Raised bike lanes are common in Europe. Ottawans need to be educated on this. Cars are much less likely to enter a bike lane if it is at sidewalk level than just a painted lane.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day....

But a biggie: for ALL, peds and cyclists and motorists, we need (attention Councillor Useless Fleury) PROPER signage, paint, lines, and calming barriers. EX: Beechwood - not painted, no signs, no indicators of any kind (the different textures of sidewalk and cyclepath are an adjunct, not a be-all). The motorist left from eastbound Beechwood to northbound Springfield is a disaster (cars wishing to continue eastbound are cutting into the right hand straight through lane in dangerous abrupt cuts). The constant up-and-down of the cyclepath is a disaster (cyclists are getting confused whether to be on the 'sidewalk' or the 'road' - and they really ARE trying to do right). and Pedestrians in front of the New Edinburgh Residence and shops are confused as to how they are to wait for, and then get to, their buses. Anotherwords - a total and unmitigated clusterf#<k. Like the line painting job on the road just to the east of this block last winter which TOTALLY faded right OUT.
People are going to die here (and if not, only by the grace of not-so-common sense and major good luck) - and THEN maybe he'll get it half-assed right.

NoJoy!

[rocketphish]

High-tech warning lights added to O'Connor bike lane
Motion-activated LED lights a warning to drivers at intersection where cyclist was struck

By Susan Burgess, CBC News Posted: Oct 12, 2017 4:05 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 12, 2017 5:40 PM ET

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4352182.1507836442!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/lights-on-o-connor.JPG

A system of cameras, motion detectors and LED lights has been installed at the intersection of O'Connor and Waverley streets to protect cyclists.

As a cyclist approaches the intersection from either direction, cameras will detect his or her presence and relay the information to a computer that triggers the flashing of nine LED lights located on either side of the intersection. The lights are mounted on flexible poles between the bicycle lane and the roadway.

The idea is to give drivers better warning of approaching cyclists, if they are planning a left turn through the bikeway from O'Connor or crossing the intersection from the west.

cROrsLSw1d0

"Unfortunately at times people are on auto-pilot when they go somewhere, and they want to go from A to B and they don't see 100 per cent of what's going on around them," said Sgt. Mark Gatien, one of the officers in charge of the traffic unit at the Ottawa Police Service.

"When you're turning across the path of a bike lane, we must have the drivers look. And this brings their attention to that."

Because the cameras detect both speed and body heat, the lights are not activated by passing cars or pedestrians, though the lights are configured to flash in response to people approaching on skateboards or in motorized wheelchairs.

The system is a project of Safer Roads Ottawa and the Ottawa police, with technology developed by Stittsville startup SmartCone Technologies. It will be in place for about a month, during which time Safer Roads Ottawa will also collect and analyze video data to figure out its effect on safety in that intersection.

A cyclist was struck there by a left-turning vehicle in October 2016, just hours after city councillors and the mayor officially opened the new bikeway.

The man was taken to hospital in stable condition with injuries to his shoulder and ribs. About two weeks later another cyclist was struck there by a left-turning van, in an incident captured by a fellow rider's helmet-mounted camera.

Another cyclist, Gary King, was hit in November 2016 while using the bikeway a little further north, near Somerset Street.

King called the new light system a "positive effort" but had questions about how well it would work in practice.

"Will drivers come to rely on it rather than taking a proper look?" King asked in an e-mail.

King also suggested that the alert system is really a band-aid solution to the bigger problem of the bikeway's design, a two-way lane on the left side of the road.

"Instead of doing the right thing, the city went with the option that would least inconvenience drivers and that is just simply the wrong approach," he said. "The nature of driver habits on O'Connor warrants going back to the drawing board to get this right."

Matthew Gervan, a lawyer who works nearby on Waverley Street, said he's had many near misses himself in that intersection, as a driver

"At night it's even more dangerous because there's a lot of bikes that don't have any lights on at all," he said. "It's kind of a driver's nightmare."

The new lights are unlikely to make a difference, he said, especially with no signage in place to explain why they're flashing.

Cyclist Gillian Montoya, a regular user of the O'Connor bike lane, was more positive.

"I was honestly just in a situation where I had a car that was turning left and they didn't see me, so I think it is a lot of responsibilty on the biker to be aware of the cars that are looking to turn," she said. "But I think it is a good idea to have in place here. Because raising your arm isn't always seen in the dark."

Daniel Boyer, who uses the bike lane with his motorized wheelchair, also welcomed the new safety measure.

"I think they should do this (in) every intersection," he said. "At least it would give the cars a heads up."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/cyclist-detection-o-connor-bike-lane-1.4351516

[Lakeofthewood]

Was biking north on O'Connor last week and noticed them, thought it was weird that the lights were on all the time. It wasn't until I was going home that night that I noticed they didn't activate until I was closer to them. Really cool idea, didn't know these existed

[roger1818]

Really cool idea, didn't know these existed

As the following Stittsville Central article indicates, it is an invention by Stittsville’s SmartCone Technologies.

STITTSVILLE COMPANY’S INVENTION DEPLOYED IN DOWNTOWN BIKE SAFETY PILOT (http://stittsvillecentral.ca/stittsville-companys-invention-deployed-in-downtown-bike-safety-pilot/)

[Jayday23]

Noticed this yesterday as well. I find them to be very effective. Great addition to the area.

[TransitZilla]

From http://rileybrockington.ca/ottawa-cycling-plan-heron-road-corridor-public-open-house/


Project P1-19 is listed in the 2013 Ottawa Cycling Plan as segregated cycling facilities in the Heron Road corridor between Data Centre Road and Alta Vista Drive, in support of a Cross-town Bikeway.

The City successfully applied for assistance from the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund (PTIF) to undertake the design of the facilities with 50% dollars coming from the federal government. This current project is identified as PTIF-41 and will take us to the detailed design stage. Design completion deadline is March 31/18 under PTIF requirements.

Funding to construct the facilities has not yet been identified/committed.

The city is planning a Public Open House on the functional design as follows:
Monday November 27/17
6:30pm – 8:30pm
Jim Durrell Rec Centre – Elwood Hall

[zzptichka]

From http://rileybrockington.ca/ottawa-cycling-plan-heron-road-corridor-public-open-house/

Project in question:

https://i.imgur.com/qHtkFHH.png

[Lakeofthewood]

Thank god. The small section of the Heron that they built a cycle track on this summer is so pointless

[eltodesukane]

The Alliance for Biking and Walking has ranked American cities based on the percentage of people who walk or ride bikes to work. In order, they are:
Boston, Washington, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Ore., New York, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Chicago and Baltimore.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/business/amazon-headquarters-competition.html

[Multi-modal]

City website for the Heron Road cycle tracks is up....

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-engagement/transportation/heron-road-separated-cycling-facilities-data-centre-road-bank-street-functional-design-study

[Multi-modal]

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/heron_west_rollmap_en.pdf

Roll Plan is up for Heron Road. I have a few issues with the plan, but overall I have to commend the City for putting up the roll plan before the Open House.

Also, the roll plan absolutely confirms the City is proposing to grade separate the Ellwood Diamond

[Kitchissippi]

Would be cool to eventually have a ped/bike bridge across the Rideau River in the vicinity of Data Centre to Leonard Avenue that connects with all this. Add another bridge over the canal at the north end of Leonard and somehow link it with the Craig/Percy Street route and you get a great north-south axis straight into downtown without having to deal with heavy traffic.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4583/37820923955_d79942ce5d_c.jpg

[lrt's friend]

Would be cool to eventually have a ped/bike bridge across the Rideau River in the vicinity of Data Centre to Leonard Avenue that connects with all this. Add another bridge over the canal at the north end of Leonard and somehow link it with the Craig/Percy Street route and you get a great north-south axis straight into downtown without having to deal with heavy traffic.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4583/37820923955_d79942ce5d_c.jpg

Yes, something like that will be a great improvement over crossing the intimidating Dunbar and Billings Bridges and likewise across the corresponding bridges across the Rideau canal.

[Multi-modal]

Would be cool to eventually have a ped/bike bridge across the Rideau River in the vicinity of Data Centre to Leonard Avenue that connects with all this. Add another bridge over the canal at the north end of Leonard and somehow link it with the Craig/Percy Street route and you get a great north-south axis straight into downtown without having to deal with heavy traffic.


That would be awesome, but your dotted green line would be o so complicated to negotiate, and the grades on the south side of Broadway would require switch backs. Probably easier just to use Torrington Place. Who knows :shrug:

[TransitZilla]

The 417 widening project will include a replacement of the Maitland 417 overpass with cycling facilities: https://ottawa.ca/en/maitland-avenue-highway-417-bridge-cycling-improvements-environmental-assessment#online-consultation

Apparently this level of cycling facilities on a highway overpass/interchange are a first for the MTO...

[Multi-modal]

The 417 widening project will include a replacement of the Maitland 417 overpass with cycling facilities: https://ottawa.ca/en/maitland-avenue-highway-417-bridge-cycling-improvements-environmental-assessment#online-consultation

Apparently this level of cycling facilities on a highway overpass/interchange are a first for the MTO...

As a cyclist, awesome. But, some things are really confusing me about the design. #1 being, what is the purpose of east-west bicycle crossings at the ramp terminals? Why would a cyclist want to cross there... they can't honestly be anticipating enough east-west cycling volume to warrant cross rides.

*Edit, I'm pretty sure for some projects the City is just implementing crossrides EVERWHERE, without really thinking about what cyclists actually do or want.