Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[STrek777]

Thanks. I tell you, if there is anything that I have learned whilst in this business is intense patience. When one is holed up with customers all day long patience in describing and informing them on policies, raisons d'etre, and circumstances generally comes with the territory. The main thing is to realise that most people do not get frustrated at the actual situation that they are in, but instead are frustrated at the explicit lack of control and general ignorance to the reasons behind the modus operandi.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dragonheart8588]

And see my friends, this is what those of us who work in the airline industry deal with day in and day out. A statement such as,

"I understand that the airline industry is complex but isn't everything else in the world? If this industry is so complex for Delta, maybe they shouldn't be in it."
makes no sense. Show me a company, with the scope of an operation like an international airline, in any industry that runs perfectly and then we (fellow airline workers) shall agree with said statement. Otherwise, c'est la vie.

Now this statement:

"
You are not having problems with Delta because you actually have good experiences with them or you just happen to ignore the big elephant in the room, just like most people in Atlanta, whom claim that living in city is more convenience, but yet they have just as bad traffic and high crime rate."

doesn't really hold water. I live in the city. And I laugh at all the poor suckers when one hears the traffic report of, "Right now trip times on 400 from Hwy 20 to the Perimeter is one hour and 20 minutes. Forget about the Inner Loop as trip times from 75 to 78 are well in excess of over an hour......"

Yeah, right! I've gotten so used to quick trips in my car that my drive to work at the airport tires me as it is my longest trip...East Atlanta to the airport. Wow! And the regarding the crime thing...I feel more wary about walking around parts of Norcross and Riverdale than I do in Downtown/Midtown.

And now the statement that really got me:

"You know it doesn't matter if I fly 1 or 2 times a year or 365 times a year. I didn't pay for sub par (i.e. Delta) services and I don't want to deal with one. This is MY choice..."
You didn't pay for sub-par service? Correct me if I am wrong but I do recall a few pages back you ended up flying on so many carriers in order to obtain the cheapest ticket. More power to you, and there is totally nothing wrong in procuring the best deals, but buddy, you and the majority of the flying public need to realise something...YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

Talk to us about sub-par service when you buy a Y-Fare or Business or First. I don't think many people realise what sub-par service truly is. Sub-par is paying for something and not getting your money's worth. If you pay US$99 to fly cross-country do realise that you will get basic service. If you pay US$699 to fly in Business Class to the West Coast, well then you shall be treated quite commensurately. I loathe to think what would happen should carriers like Ryanair or Aer Lingus were to operate in the US on a domestic basis (I know that there is SkyBus, but their presence is hardly felt in the grand scheme of all things in US Aviation). Imagine being sold lottery tickets in-flight under the guise of "giving money to poor Irish orphanages". Or having to pay Euros3.50 for literally a cup of water or tea. A hot panini, if I recall, is about Euros8-10 (It's been about a month since I last flew on them).

In the end all that I am saying is that we in airline business don't purposely set out to make one's flying experience a misery... in fact quite the opposite. Our day is better when your day is better. With that being said, we can only operate within the parameters/tools that we are given -- and when passengers/customers demand lower/barebones fares, well then, we are obliged to meet such demands and consequently have to eliminate some amenities.

I completely agree with you on the point that I get what I paid for. I certainly was fine with spirit cheap flight having uncomfortable seats. This is where I beg to differ. Frontier went above and beyond my expectation (realistically, I don't ask for very much) with their pleasantness and extremely nice plane. My biggest gripe with Delta was always with their customer service. I could careless about their old camp airplane but I cannot stand rude people.

I worked in the customer service industry for 8 years and somewhat now in the legal field, I know how hard it is to deal with horrible customers who have bad attitude and want everything to be given to them.

Therefore, I know how hard it is for the check in personnels and flight attendant, but it irate me when I come with pleasantry but yet they don't reciprocate. I mean all I ask is a hello, a thank you, a please, a smile, and I'll do the same. Is that too much to ask?

I think most people on here are confuse with my post, I am not asking for materialistic thing on these airlines (pleasantry does not cost a lot of money). All I want is to deal with pleasant people. I mean my flight on US air was great. I mean their A/C didn't work, but the flight attendant was very funny about it and made the situation a lot better.

Spirit made their customers pay for everything, I certainly didn't mind it because I knew what I was paying for. You see I was fine with all three airlines because their people were extremely nice to speak to unlike my bad experiences with Delta (ok, except one time when my sister flew with them a month ago, where a lady was very nice and courteous,)

On to other points,

I walked to work and school in midtown and downtown. I have been verbally assaulted many times for money by homeless people and by thugs making discriminatory remarks. I used to live in Lawrenceville and now in East Cobb and I have never have to deal with that.

People who are responding to my post, my remarks are NOT for you personally. I am sorry if you do but that's not my intention. All I wanted to do is point out the flaws and hoping people would try to make for the better. However, judging by the responses on here, I'm not sure about that anymore.

STrek, maybe you should be more like GTviajero81(ie. calmness when explaining yourself), all that anger is not healthy. :-)

[galaca]

CNN just reported of a possible merger between Delta and United...

[GTviajero81]

Let me assure you that nothing you said was taken personally by me. What you speak of is what I deal with daily. Never did I lose my written 'cool' or anything. I am just explaining to you and to others how things are. Granted, there are a few bad apples in my business, but again I ask, show me a business where there aren't any.

You are right that reciprocation is a simple thing. But here is something that you are going to have to learn as you get older: sometimes it's just better to shrug it off and realise that certain people will just be bitter in their lives. The hard part of this proverbial pill to swallow? -- Is that we can't do anything about it AND we shouldn't let it affect us personally. Do what I do, continue smiling and being nice and maybe it just might change that person's day after your encounter. Simply put: Kill 'em with kindness.

Like I tell all my juniors, I don't get paid enough to get agitated or mad at anyone. Why would I let myself get worked up over something that I can not control? That's why I am in the position that I am in now. Now, in case it was forgotten from an earlier post, I do not work for Delta. But I empathise in the generalisations that customers will manifest onto an airline due to a few not-so-choice encounters. Who knows, your next Delta flight may be your best ever.

Btw, as one of those Gold Medallion members, I truly enjoy Delta's service....my last flight was the non-stop from Dubai, UAE to Atlanta....lovely service and crew. :)

[STrek777]

STrek, maybe you should be more like GTviajero81(ie. calmness when explaining yourself), all that anger is not healthy. :-)

aaahhhhhh Dragonheart don't be upset. There is no one I enjoy going toe to toe with than you. You help keep me on my A game and force me to think outside the box. I know I come across harsh and angry on my post but I really wish you could actually hear me respond to you. I swear the way I hear myself saying it my head is the way I write it but the way it reads must be another matter entirely. I have no ill will toward you. Honestly once you throw in my hand motions with my vocal inflections the mood of my comments change completely. :)

[atl2phx]

Report: Delta, United in merger talks
Company would keep United name and be based in Chicago

Associated Press

Published on: 11/14/07

UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and Delta Air Lines Inc. have been discussing a combination between the nation's second- and third-largest carriers that would keep the United name and the corporate headquarters in Chicago, The Associated Press has learned.

There is a sense of urgency in the talks, which have been going on for some time and continued as recently as a week or so ago, an official with knowledge of the talks said Wednesday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly.

"They want to get something done before a new administration gets in and so they get the clock ticking on" federal regulatory approval, the official said.

The exact financial details of the transaction being discussed are not clear. But the talks involve United being the name of the combined airlines, the headquarters staying in Chicago and Delta's Atlanta hub being an operational center for the two carriers, the official said. One possible scenario involves Delta CEO Richard Anderson being the chief of the combined airline, the official said.

A spokesperson for Chicago-based United did not immediately return a call Wednesday seeking comment. Delta spokeswoman Betsy Talton declined to comment.

Delta said in a statement Wednesday that its board has established a special committee to work with management to review and analyze strategic options for the airline. Top executives have said recently they are trying to determine whether consolidation makes sense for Delta.

The company was responding to pressure by a hedge fund that owns 7 million Delta shares to consider combining with UAL.

Pardus Capital Management LP said in a letter to Delta's top management on Tuesday that it is "imperative" that the company undertake a merger transaction with another airline in view of soaring fuel prices and what it described as the increased risks of going it alone.

"Consolidation is needed to de-risk the industry and time is of the essence as now is the right regulatory environment," said Karim Samii, president of Pardus, and Shane Larson, a principal.

The hedge fund executives said they had determined since making a similar recommendation in a Sept. 7 letter that "the most attractive and practical combination would be a Delta and United Airlines combination."

It cited figures from a consulting firm estimating that the benefits of such a pairing would be about $585 million and said a combined Delta-United would boast a broader network than any other combination.

Pardus also owned 5.6 million shares in Chicago-based UAL as of Sept. 30.

[GTviajero81]

The mere implications of a merger between the two.....wow!

The fact that the operational hubs have already been determined as well as airline name and....gosh there are too many specifics to ignore.

If this merger were to go through the resulting network and hubs -- gosh I can't even imagine how literally the competition would be crushed.

I think it's about time for that happy hour cocktail...and pronto! :)

[Dragonheart8588]

Let me assure you that nothing you said was taken personally by me. What you speak of is what I deal with daily. Never did I lose my written 'cool' or anything. I am just explaining to you and to others how things are. Granted, there are a few bad apples in my business, but again I ask, show me a business where there aren't any.

You are right that reciprocation is a simple thing. But here is something that you are going to have to learn as you get older: sometimes it's just better to shrug it off and realise that certain people will just be bitter in their lives. The hard part of this proverbial pill to swallow? -- Is that we can't do anything about it AND we shouldn't let it affect us personally. Do what I do, continue smiling and being nice and maybe it just might change that person's day after your encounter. Simply put: Kill 'em with kindness.

Like I tell all my juniors, I don't get paid enough to get agitated or mad at anyone. Why would I let myself get worked up over something that I can not control? That's why I am in the position that I am in now. Now, in case it was forgotten from an earlier post, I do not work for Delta. But I empathise in the generalisations that customers will manifest onto an airline due to a few not-so-choice encounters. Who knows, your next Delta flight may be your best ever.

Btw, as one of those Gold Medallion members, I truly enjoy Delta's service....my last flight was the non-stop from Dubai, UAE to Atlanta....lovely service and crew. :)

You have enlighten me. Thank you very much. You ought to teach that to Strek, too.

People needs to be like you and the funny thing is that my dad said the same thing about shrugging things off and move on.

Again, thank you very much.:tup:

[Dragonheart8588]

The mere implications of a merger between the two.....wow!

The fact that the operational hubs have already been determined as well as airline name and....gosh there are too many specifics to ignore.

If this merger were to go through the resulting network and hubs -- gosh I can't even imagine how literally the competition would be crushed.

I think it's about time for that happy hour cocktail...and pronto! :)

Here's an article for all to read

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/15air-web.html?ref=business

[GTviajero81]

You have enlighten me. Thank you very much. You ought to teach that to Strek, too.

People needs to be like you and the funny thing is that my dad said the same thing about shrugging things off and move on.

Again, thank you very much.:tup:

My pleasure. Cheers mate! And btw, your dad seems to be a wise man! :)

[Dragonheart8588]

aaahhhhhh Dragonheart don't be upset. There is no one I enjoy going toe to toe with than you. You help keep me on my A game and force me to think outside the box. I know I come across harsh and angry on my post but I really wish you could actually hear me respond to you. I swear the way I hear myself saying it my head is the way I write it but the way it reads must be another matter entirely. I have no ill will toward you. Honestly once you throw in my hand motions with my vocal inflections the mood of my comments change completely. :)

I think that is the biggest problem for forums are that people can't see and hear the actual response, which could lead a lot of misunderstanding. I mean I seriously don't want to come across as an A** either.

I mean it is great to read what you and other have to say because YOU GUYS are actually in the business. I complete understand your frustration when discussing topics with outsiders. I mean I agree I don't know anything about airlines industry compared to you guys. I'm flatter that you think I keep you on your A game.

[ThrashATL]

How the hell could United get hold of Delta, Delta is a much stronger airline financially....???

[STrek777]

Yeah it's everywhere of course I also hope that the

Associated Press
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071114/delta_united.html?.v=21

Market Watch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/delta-air-ual-rally-merger/story.aspx?guid=%7B531AF3D8%2D2953%2D4AB3%2D9A1B%2D0AF8BA4E28BA%7D&siteid=yhoof

Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119505714456992875.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/15air-web.html?ref=business

Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN1436355220071114

Financial Times
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto111420071400453508&referrer_id=yahoofinance

CNN Money
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/14/news/companies/delta_united/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

FOX News
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov14/0,4670,DeltaUnited,00.html

are all wrong. The AJC has already amended its story but the original was very interesting. I really do not feel like moving to Chicago.

[Dragonheart8588]

Yeah it's everywhere of course I also hope that the

Associated Press
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071114/delta_united.html?.v=21

Market Watch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/delta-air-ual-rally-merger/story.aspx?guid=%7B531AF3D8%2D2953%2D4AB3%2D9A1B%2D0AF8BA4E28BA%7D&siteid=yhoof

Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119505714456992875.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/15air-web.html?ref=business

Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN1436355220071114

Financial Times
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto111420071400453508&referrer_id=yahoofinance

CNN Money
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/14/news/companies/delta_united/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

FOX News
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov14/0,4670,DeltaUnited,00.html

are all wrong. The AJC has already amended its story but the original was very interesting. I really do not feel like moving to Chicago.

Am I reading this wrong? In NYTimes, I thought the hedge fund recommend that Delta acquire United not the other way around.

[STrek777]

How the hell could United get hold of Delta, Delta is a much stronger airline financially....???

You would be amaized how clearly money talks. To the people trying to force it through it has nothing to do with the good of the people. It has nothing to do with who has the better balance sheet. It has everything to do with who can poney up the most money to acquire the competition and how fast the bought out creditors can pad their pockets.

Lord help... to describe the implications of this merge, its effect, and how they might get it done I would need pages. I see it in my head but I don't have the time to write pages on a rumor.

[GTviajero81]

It's not so much the idea that Delta is in a fiscally better shape than United. The big thing in this game is brand-recognition. If this were to pass (and I am thinking more and more that this shan't) UAL's brand is more recognised in Asia than DL, and right now the airlines are chomping at the bit to get more Asia routes under their belts. With an Asian/European network like UAL's and a domestic/Latin American/European network like Delta's, the combined carrier would be a formidable force to reckon with. And their hubs are quite complimentary: LA Metro/SLC-DEN/ORD-CVG/IAD/ATL/JFK/LHR-CDG/NRT. With the new Open Skies agreement between the EU and the USA this merger, again if it were to come to pass, would develop an insanely strong truly Worldwide Carrier.

That's why I love this business...never a boring day on the job! :)

[STrek777]

Am I reading this wrong? In NYTimes, I thought the hedge fund recommend that Delta acquire United not the other way around.

nope your reading it right. The the acquirer go the spoils. In this case the World Headquarters, the Name, the Everything after that. That hedge fund is actually sugesting that United rip Delta away from Atlanta. You may not like Delta but it has given plenty to this city since it first moved its Headquarters here in the 1940's.

I LOVE MY COMPANY if I have to cry out "Keep Delta My Delta" to another member of the Star Alliance then so be it. This would be a disasterous move on every level... exept to our creditors that is.

[Fiorenza]

Delta denies merger talks with UAL (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSWEN258820071114?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true)

[atl2phx]

nope your reading it right. The the acquirer go the spoils. In this case the World Headquarters, the Name, the Everything after that. That hedge fund is actually sugesting that United rip Delta away from Atlanta. You may not like Delta but it has given plenty to this city since it first moved its Headquarters here in the 1940's.

I LOVE MY COMPANY if I have to cry out "Keep Delta My Delta" to another member of the Star Alliance then so be it. This would be a disasterous move on every level... exept to our creditors that is.

how much influence can a hedge fund have when they hold less than 3% of delta's stock?

[Dragonheart8588]

nope your reading it right. The the acquirer go the spoils. In this case the World Headquarters, the Name, the Everything after that. That hedge fund is actually sugesting that United rip Delta away from Atlanta. You may not like Delta but it has given plenty to this city since it first moved its Headquarters here in the 1940's.

I LOVE MY COMPANY if I have to cry out "Keep Delta My Delta" to another member of the Star Alliance then so be it. This would be a disasterous move on every level... exept to our creditors that is.

Ok wait, why do the acquirer have to go the spoils with everything you named? I assumed if you acquire somebody than you can actually keeps the brand/HQ.

Despite some unlikable qualities of Delta, I certainly don't want them to be transfer from Atlanta to another city. I mean they do contribute a lot to the city b/c than Strek and I have nothing to disagree over. ;)

[Fiorenza]

how much influence can a hedge fund have when they hold less than 3% of delta's stock?

This got to be a publicity play by this hedge fund to try and close a forward position they undoubtedly have where they are underwater on Delta. A Delta-Continental merger may happen, or even a Delta-JetBlue merger, but never a Delta-United merger for pretty much the same reasons that a Delta-American merger will never happen.

[atl2phx]

This got to be a publicity play by this hedge fund to try and close a forward position they undoubtedly have where they are underwater on Delta. A Delta-Continental merger may happen, or even a Delta-JetBlue merger, but never a Delta-United merger for pretty much the same reasons that a Delta-American merger will never happen.

gotcha. so, essentially today's news is a positioning statement/pr play from the hedge fund.

[STrek777]

Ok wait, why do the acquirer have to go the spoils with everything you named? I assumed if you acquire somebody than you can actually keeps the brand/HQ.

Despite some unlikable qualities of Delta, I certainly don't want them to be transfer from Atlanta to another city. I mean they do contribute a lot to the city b/c than Strek and I have nothing to disagree over. ;)

Oh that was some sudden heart burn! We just got the Internal Memorandum from Richard and Ed. I think we can calm down now you will see the memo circulating thoughout the media very shortly if you haven't already.

Oh I just don't like it when I start hearing that someone might try to take away Our Delta. I about lost my religion reading what that Pardus company was suggesting. I was getting ready to dust off my KDMD banner. Star Alliance my foot. I'm all good now!

To answer your question. YES, the acquiring company calls nearly all the shots. Now I have very little negative to say about UA. Their ballance sheet is in shambles and their is no love for their executive leaders. But the people that I have worked with on the back end have been very nice and everyone I know over here that has dealt with UA employees in the past have said the same thing. There is that Legacy to Legacy respect thing going on. Now AA is a whole different ball of wax that I just will not go into as I suspect one of their employees is a forumer here. ;)

[Fiorenza]

Somebody said this story first broke on PR Newswire. Ha.

[ThrashATL]

Now AA is a whole different ball of wax that I just will not go into as I suspect one of their employees is a forumer here. ;)

IF Delta & United happens, you'll be able to hear the asses at AA pucker all over the world.

[Fiorenza]

Who the hell is "Jason"?

[STrek777]

Who the hell is "Jason"?

Random thought party of one your table is ready. hehehehe Where did that come from?

[Fiorenza]

I took basically what I wrote above and posted it on the AJC discussion, along with the comment that some news idiots take anything and run with it with no confirmation.

"Jason" comes back at me with:
"Fiorenza, er, Carismar, is this how you spend your days? Logging onto every internet message board to find reasons to call people idiots? Heck, you were too lazy to even change the wording of your post. The consequences of Delta leaving Atlanta are huge. Even if the chance of it happening is only 10%, the consequences are large enough for people to still be concerned. Playing Russian Roulette with a six shooter only has a one in six chance of anything bad happening, but it's still no advisable to play the game."

I'm just wondering who's on my case.

[STrek777]

I took basically what I wrote above and posted it on the AJC discussion, along with the comment that some news idiots take anything and run with it with no confirmation.

"Jason" comes back at me with:
"Fiorenza, er, Carismar, is this how you spend your days? Logging onto every internet message board to find reasons to call people idiots? Heck, you were too lazy to even change the wording of your post. The consequences of Delta leaving Atlanta are huge. Even if the chance of it happening is only 10%, the consequences are large enough for people to still be concerned. Playing Russian Roulette with a six shooter only has a one in six chance of anything bad happening, but it's still no advisable to play the game."

I'm just wondering who's on my case.

WOW! You could hear a pin drop in here.

This room has been buzzing with activity all day. Fiorenza you have to teach me how to do what you do. No one can fire up the troops quicker than you and apparently no one can stop them as fast as you just did. You never cease to amaze me.

[Fiorenza]

I pretty much stopped comments over at AJC as well. I guess I'm a hard act to follow.

[Andrea]

This got to be a publicity play by this hedge fund to try and close a forward position they undoubtedly have where they are underwater on Delta.

Fiorenza, what does it mean to close a forward position?

[akiatl261]

I think this speeds uop the merger talks for Delta, and even the other airliners. I think we will see very soon announcements for who Delta really wants to merge with. Seeing how the stock went up and the buzz has been voracious it seems like, this in a will will give them even more of a greenlight. Lets hope they pic the right husband/wife. lol :)

[Fiorenza]

Andrea,

I'm not a fan of or expert on leveraged positions, but it seems that many were thinking because of the price of fuel, competitive pricing in the industry, and the uncertainty about the economy, that airline stocks would tank. So, many people sold Delta and United short. This hedge fund comes along, and sees a golden opportunity. Because the supply-demand curve is favorable and maybe short positions are oversold and the actual shares have become cheap, then it's an opportunity for a hedge fund to go the other way....maybe buy long (leverage)(more risk), or maybe just buy the shares outright and then do something to juice the price upwards. In fact, the share prices of both Delta and United spiked way up today, and then retreated. During that spike upward, it would have been the perfect opportunity at that moment to flip the shares or puts - if you're the hedge fund who had manufactured the news and knew it was garbage. Not saying that it did happen that way, but it could happen that way. On the other hand, the hedge fund could be in it for the mid-term and hold their positions, but keep in mind it was said the shares would merge at 1:1 so in that case the simple plan would be to cause market expectation to run up the pre-merger share prices on both companies.

Don't get me wrong, I think hedge funds have their place, but the Delta-United idea is bad for all parties including the shareholders in the long run.

[Andrea]

Thanks, Fiorenza. I'm not an investor so I just wasn't sure what the terminology meant.

[Andrea]

Okay, I was at the airport the other day and was thinking about this.

Let's say it's 1,000 feet between Concourse A and Concourse B. If I take the moving sidewalk, have I still walked 1,000 feet? If not, did the moving sidewalk actually shorten the distance between concourses? And wouldn't that qualify as a space-time warp?

If so, it would be extremely cool to change the signs and have a recorded voice come on over a flying saucer type noise that says, "You are now entering the Hartsfield-Jackson Inter-Concourse Wormhole. Resistance is futile. May you emerge at your intended destination."

:borg:

[STrek777]

Okay, I was at the airport the other day and was thinking about this.

Let's say it's 1,000 feet between Concourse A and Concourse B. If I take the moving sidewalk, have I still walked 1,000 feet? If not, did the moving sidewalk actually shorten the distance between concourses? And wouldn't that qualify as a space-time warp?

If so, it would be extremely cool to change the signs and have a recorded voice come on over a flying saucer type noise that says, "You are now entering the Hartsfield-Jackson Inter-Concourse Wormhole. Resistance is futile. May you emerge at your intended destination."

:borg:

:lmao: LOL that was too funny!

[Andrea]

Re a Delta/United merger, here's what would really be a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. The new company moves its headquarters to Chicago and builds a supertall right in the middle of downtown, flanked by two 85 story luxury condo towers for senior management.

Gov. Perdue, please add to your prayer list that that won't happen.

:yuck:

[STrek777]

Re a Delta/United merger, here's what would really be a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. The new company moves its headquarters to Chicago and builds a supertall right in the middle of downtown, flanked by two 85 story luxury condo towers for senior management.

Gov. Perdue, please add to your prayer list that that won't happen.

:yuck:

Yeah this won't happen. Delta and United getting into bed together... ooohhhh they would not make a pretty baby. It's about as crazy an Idea as Coca~Cola and Pepsi~Cola getting together or Home Depot and Lowe's getting together. Whether you both fly planes make cola or sell home supplies some combinations are just not meant to be. :)

[Rail Claimore]

Yeah it's everywhere of course I also hope that the

Associated Press
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071114/delta_united.html?.v=21

Market Watch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/delta-air-ual-rally-merger/story.aspx?guid=%7B531AF3D8%2D2953%2D4AB3%2D9A1B%2D0AF8BA4E28BA%7D&siteid=yhoof

Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119505714456992875.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/15air-web.html?ref=business

Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSN1436355220071114

Financial Times
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto111420071400453508&referrer_id=yahoofinance

CNN Money
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/14/news/companies/delta_united/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

FOX News
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov14/0,4670,DeltaUnited,00.html

are all wrong. The AJC has already amended its story but the original was very interesting. I really do not feel like moving to Chicago.

As someone who kind of misses Atlanta and the Southeast, I don't blame you.

But you'll learn to love snow. And you won't have to worry about water problems... ;)

[STrek777]

I don't know if I have said it here before but Delta is second to United by a razor thin margin. Here are the stats that the AJC was good enough to compile.

Delta and United: how they stack up
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2007/11/14/deltanumbers_1115.html

in other news Delta has announced that it has welcomed China Southern into the SkyTeam family. :D

SkyTeam Welcomes China Southern Airlines as First Chinese Carrier
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071115/lath014.html?.v=101

[akiatl261]

:previous: Yah China SOuthern is in Skyteam now. That will go a very long way for building up its presence in Asia. Now all Skyteam needs now is Malaysian and then people cant talk anymore about how Skyteam sucks in Asia. China Southern is a good carrier. Maybe we could see a gaungzhou to Atlanta 777 route as it is there main hub. Would be cool.

Does anyone know if the US airways fiasco in Philadelphia will benefit Delta interms of getting the route to Beijing? (Delta has aquired gates on the international concourse freeing up space for southwest at there old gates and leaving UsAirways Strapped for International Gates. us Airways Threated to decline there china award if it was allowed to happen).

[STrek777]

:previous: Yah China SOuthern is in Skyteam now. That will go a very long way for building up its presence in Asia. Now all Skyteam needs now is Malaysian and then people cant talk anymore about how Skyteam sucks in Asia. China Southern is a good carrier. Maybe we could see a gaungzhou to Atlanta 777 route as it is there main hub. Would be cool.

Does anyone know if the US airways fiasco in Philadelphia will benefit Delta interms of getting the route to Beijing? (Delta has aquired gates on the international concourse freeing up space for southwest at there old gates and leaving UsAirways Strapped for International Gates. us Airways Threated to decline there china award if it was allowed to happen).

I have been waiting to talk about this China Southern thing for a while now. I am so glad they released it.

Here is the US Airways article. Delta may end up with Beijing after all!

US Airways plays its China card
In a space dispute with Phila. airport, it said it might not proceed with Beijing flight plans.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/11074916.html

OOOHHHHH the Senator is mmmmaaaaaaddddd!!!!

Specter blasts US Airways over China route
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/business_breaking/11093676.html

Who was that a while back that suggested that if Delta couldn't handle the turbulence then they should get out of the sky. I think Delta knows how to play dirty and when it comes to US Airways I can tell you we are still very pissed at their arrogance. They though they could just come in rape the bankruptcy process, acquire Delta and call it a day. oh I get fired up just thinking about it.

While we're on the subject I thought ya'll might like this

US Airways cut to neutral from buy at Goldman Sachs
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bC17D87B6-3E7E-4AAF-9642-0E7D2A10D37E%7d&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo

[MAH4546]

I have been waiting to talk about this China Southern thing for a while now. I am so glad they released it.

Here is the US Airways article. Delta may end up with Beijing after all!


If US Airways fails to fly Philadelphia-Beijing, the award, IIRC, goes to United Airlines for Los Angeles-Shanghai, as the "back-up."

[STrek777]

If US Airways fails to fly Philadelphia-Beijing, the award, IIRC, goes to United Airlines for Los Angeles-Shanghai, as the "back-up."

I'm talking about the Beijing route. The USA and China negotiated very specific flight criteria. These awards were based on those negotiations. If US can't fly the route that doesn't just leave a China route open that leaves the 2009 Beijing route open.

Personally I was shocked to see US even put in for the thing. Their largest plane is the 767-300. In 2005, I think, there was a 2008 Beijing route open for bidding. The answer we got from the DOT as to why DL was denied was because they did not feel that we were serious enough about Trans Pacific routes. They pointed out that at the time we had only one Trans Pacific flight from ATL - NRT. They felt that since we pulled out of HKG when it was handed back to China that we were flighty. They also didn't care for the fact that we pulled out of TPE when we stopped flying our DC-10s. The award was given to UA and the rest is history.

Now at the time US put in for the Beijing bid they had no routes over the Pacific, and most of their European flights are seasonal. They could only promise that they would have the aircraft in place to fly the route in 2009 if they were awarded it. They were still operating essentially as two separate companies with the same name. They are only like the 7th largest carrier in the USA and they want the route out of PHL of all places. I can see why Specter was so mad he must have pulled every favor he had over at the DOT to get US that route and now their thinking about giving it up. Personally I have never heard of an airline giving up a prime China route before. It will be a sight to watch... I almost want to get my popcorn ready and find a comfortable seat.

[MAH4546]

I'm talking about the Beijing route. The USA and China negotiated very specific flight criteria. These awards were based on those negotiations. If US can't fly the route that doesn't just leave a China route open that leaves the 2009 Beijing route open.

Incorrect. There is no "Beijing route". The route that is open can go to Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou. They did negotiate very specific flight criteria, but that criteria was that the four 2009 route authorities could be awarded to any combination of flights to Shanghai, Beijing, and Guangzhou.

For every award, the U.S. DOT selects a back-up carrier that will get the award , by default, if the primary carrier does not get it. This avoids the hassle of second selection process. In the case of the 2009 US Airways Philadelphia-Beijing award, it goes by default to United Airlines for Los Angeles-Shanghai, IIRC.

Back in 2005 when American was awarded Chicago-Shanghai, for example, Delta Airlines was awarded the back-up authority with their Atlanta-Beijing application, in which case if American was unable to start Chicago-Shanghai, rather than start a whole other round of applications, Delta would get Atlanta-Beijing by default.

US-China route authorities are divided into "Type 1", which can be used to Beijing, Guangzhou, and Shanghai, and "Type II", which can be used to a dozen smaller cities (and, not surprisingly, nobody has applied for yet).

The only time in which there has been a particular city award was for 2008, when they opened up seven frequencies that had to be used to Guangzhou, which went to United.

[ThrashATL]

The onslaught at Hartsfield starts today. Let's see, 200,000 people a day for the next 10 days with peaks of 240,000 Wednesday, Friday & Saturday... About 2 million people in a week and a half... glad I'm not heading out there or through there!

[SteveD]

:previous: Me too. I'm driving over this Thanksgiving. Hartsfield-Jackson handles massive crowds as well as anyone, I suppose, but I sure wouldn't want to be going through there in the next week.

[echinatl]

Some of us were discussing free wifi and I brought up that some areas are seeing free city wide wifi networks. Here is the latest exaple of this for anyone that is interested:

http://www.centernetworks.com/manhattan-free-wifi-cbs-mta-partnership

I wish that discussion didn’t die so quickly, usually I have no expert knowledge in anything that is discussed on this board but for once I knew what I was talking about!:banana:

[Dragonheart8588]

Some of us were discussing free wifi and I brought up that some areas are seeing free city wide wifi networks. Here is the latest exaple of this for anyone that is interested:

http://www.centernetworks.com/manhattan-free-wifi-cbs-mta-partnership

I wish that discussion didn’t die so quickly, usually I have no expert knowledge in anything that is discussed on this board but for once I knew what I was talking about!:banana:

Now, if can only get that for Atlanta, Marta & the airport.

[STrek777]

Incorrect. There is no "Beijing route". The route that is open can go to Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou. They did negotiate very specific flight criteria, but that criteria was that the four 2009 route authorities could be awarded to any combination of flights to Shanghai, Beijing, and Guangzhou.

For every award, the U.S. DOT selects a back-up carrier that will get the award , by default, if the primary carrier does not get it. This avoids the hassle of second selection process. In the case of the 2009 US Airways Philadelphia-Beijing award, it goes by default to United Airlines for Los Angeles-Shanghai, IIRC.

Back in 2005 when American was awarded Chicago-Shanghai, for example, Delta Airlines was awarded the back-up authority with their Atlanta-Beijing application, in which case if American was unable to start Chicago-Shanghai, rather than start a whole other round of applications, Delta would get Atlanta-Beijing by default.

US-China route authorities are divided into "Type 1", which can be used to Beijing, Guangzhou, and Shanghai, and "Type II", which can be used to a dozen smaller cities (and, not surprisingly, nobody has applied for yet).

The only time in which there has been a particular city award was for 2008, when they opened up seven frequencies that had to be used to Guangzhou, which went to United.

Thank you for the insight!

[ATLaffinity]

ok, i've come up with the ultimate merger plan.

forget United which blows and would threaten the ATL hub.

DL should merge with NW (as has been speculated for years) since there's very little overlap and HQ would certainly be in Atlanta.

so now you have one airline with a strong presence on both coasts.

so which flag?

Northwest? Obviously not.

Delta? OK but there's something better...

...


wait for it

...


http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3a/Pan_Am_Logo.svg.png

yes, you heard me right! and, yes, they can get the name.

i'll let the operations people work out the minor details of merging airlines :cheers:

[STrek777]

ok, i've come up with the ultimate merger plan.

forget United which blows and would threaten the ATL hub.

DL should merge with NW (as has been speculated for years) since there's very little overlap and HQ would certainly be in Atlanta.

so now you have one airline with a strong presence on both coasts.

so which flag?

Northwest? Obviously not.

Delta? OK but there's something better...

...


wait for it

...


http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3a/Pan_Am_Logo.svg.png

yes, you heard me right! and, yes, they can get the name.

i'll let the operations people work out the minor details of merging airlines :cheers:

That's cute. :) But Pan Am is still arround.

http://www.flypanam.com/

[akiatl261]

Well this Panam is a terrible terrible imitation. The name was bought for like 30k at an auction. I think Delta if they wanted could buy the name and rename the company Panam but I doubt they would.

[megalopolis]

Delta pilots move to block 'poisonous' merger idea

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 11/20/07
Delta Air Lines' pilots will work to block a New York hedge fund's "poisonous vision" for a merger with United Airlines, the leader of the union said Tuesday.

Union Chairman Lee Moak told members in a letter posted on the union's Web site that the group views the proposal by Pardus Capital Management as a hostile takeover attempt akin to US Airways' bid for Delta late last year.

"Pardus' demand for a merger between Delta and United is a poisonous vision built upon an artificial timeline and focused primarily on a financial transaction," said Moak. "As we demonstrated in the case of the US Airways assault on our company, we can stop a consolidating event that is not in our best interests, and we will treat the demands by Pardus no less seriously that those presented by US Airways last year."

Pardus Capital proposed last week that Delta merge with United Airlines in a stock-swap deal. The New York firm, which owns 7 million Delta shares and 5.6 million United shares, has been meeting with investors to drum up support for its plan.

Delta and United executives have both said they believe the industry needs to consolidate, but both carriers say they are not in informal or formal merger talks.

Moak said the union is not opposed to mergers per se, but he warned that one combination "could very likely trigger competitive responses from the managements of other carriers resulting in industry-wide consolidation."

He said the union has decided to retain more than $1 million it collected from pilots to pay for legal fees and other expenses related dealing with a potential merger. The union collected the money before US Airways' bid emerged last year and had planned to start returning it to members.

The Air Line Pilots Association, Delta's only large union, was part of a large group of Delta employees that rallied to oppose US Airways' bid to buy Delta before it emerged from bankruptcy last spring. Delta's creditors eventually backed the carrier's plan to remain independent.

But Delta's market value is now about half of what management projected, and soaring jet fuel prices and a shaky economy threaten to unravel the airline's recovery plan.

[STrek777]

Here's another interesting development and another former NW executive. I really can't read to much into this as we also have several other executives that we stole from CO. Yup we now have a pretty balanced team of DL, CO, & NW executives. What a riot it would be if the three announced they would merge together. hehehehe

oh I almost forgot here is the article from the AJC

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2007/11/29/delta_1130.html

ENJOY!! :)

[STrek777]

Oh joyous rapture liquids may be back!!!

http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2007/11/28/airport-scanner-could-cut-lines.php

[STrek777]

Well if anyone is reading here is another cool Delta article.

Delta Expands Africa Presence With First Nonstop Flights Between Atlanta and Lagos, Nigeria

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/071203/132424.html

[john3eblover]

keep em coming man!

[STrek777]

keep em coming man!

SkyTeam Named 2007 Best Airline Alliance Program by Business Traveler Magazine

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071205/law023.html?.v=101

Per popular demand here is another little goodie!!!

[echinatl]

This is SO AWESOME!!

We need this:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/industry-news/heathrow-to-get-worlds-first-personal-rapid-transport-system-335264.php

Also, some were talking about in flight internet access, if you're bored, here is a good article talking about it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119748579144724185.html?mod=hpp_us_inside_today

[SteveD]

:previous: Only 18 of them and a claim for never more than an 18 second wait? Something's not adding up there. You'd need hundreds, if not thousands, of them at Hartsfield-Jackson. With 18 you'd build up a queue for miles in minutes...

[echinatl]

:previous: Only 18 of them and a claim for never more than an 18 second wait? Something's not adding up there. You'd need hundreds, if not thousands, of them at Hartsfield-Jackson. With 18 you'd build up a queue for miles in minutes...

It looks like its being used specifically for business passengers at a specific terminal. If they got 18 to work maybe they could make 100 work, or build 18 that can hold 10 people or so?

[smArTaLlone]

TIMELY ARRIVALS

Top on-time airlines in November:
Hawaiian: 92.4%
Aloha: 91.6%
Delta: 85.6%
Frontier: 84.5%
Southwest: 84.5%
Source: U.S. Department of Transportation

[smArTaLlone]

Delta Air Lines Inc. wants to begin merger talks with UAL Corp. and Northwest Airlines Corp., according to a Thursday report from the Wall Street Journal citing unnamed sources who have knowledge of the situation.

In a prepared statement sent to Atlanta Business Chronicle, Delta said: "Delta has said previously that its board of directors has formed a special committee to work with management to review and analyze strategic options to ensure Delta maintains its leadership position in the industry, including potential consolidation transactions. During this period we will not provide any updates on the board's process."

The Wall Street Journal story said Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) will ask its board for the OK to begin merger talks.

The news comes just one day after the leader of Delta's pilots union sent a letter to pilots to warn them the airline may look to merge with another carrier.

Air Line Pilots Association Executive Committee Chairman Lee Moak told pilots Delta may consolidate and the union has retained legal counsel specializing in mergers and acquisitions. The union will meet later this week in a special session in Atlanta and the meeting will "focus on the fact that our company may soon be involved in some form of industry consolidation."

While Moak did not name any possible suitors for Delta, in November Hedge fund Pardus Capital Management LP sent a letter to Delta executives calling for a merger of Delta and United Air Lines Inc. parent UAL Corp. At the time, Delta denied any talks with United but formed the special committee to review and analyze its strategic options.

Delta's stock closed up 18.2 percent at $15.98 a share in Thursday trading.

[Behind_Phips]

Do we think the headquarters will stay in Atlanta? For the love of god, we can not take the loss of another major corporation.

[atl2phx]

Do we think the headquarters will stay in Atlanta? For the love of god, we can not take the loss of another major corporation.

i'd like to hear strek777 or atlantaguy weigh in on this one.

i agree, it would be another emotional loss for the city to lose another major HQ, and loosing delta would be the most difficult to date. however, the real impact on atlanta and hartsfield would likely mean continued growth in operations and jobs as hartsfield would continue to be the major hub for any combined operations.

no doubt, mergers are coming and delta seems to be positioning themselves as leading the charge - and i'm somewhat encouraged by the proactive stance delta seems to be taking. on the other hand, i'm not sure there's alot delta can do during negotiations to maintain delta's colors or an atlanta HQ.

[atlantaguy]

In my humble opinion, if it's Northwet I think the HQ's and name remain.

If it's United, all bets are off. The hub isn't going anywhere, though.

[Fiorenza]

The feds would never allow a United-Delta merger. It's a non-starter. They didn't agree to the United-US Air deal a couple of years ago.

[Tombstoner]

:previous: Times have changed. That was before airlines started declaring bankruptcy like flies (to mix a metaphor) and it became crystal clear to all concerned that consolidation is going to happen the relatively "easy" way (mergers) or the hard way (failed airlines). Personally, I think NW is a much better fit.

[STrek777]

The feds would never allow a United-Delta merger. It's a non-starter. They didn't agree to the United-US Air deal a couple of years ago.

First they didn't allow the UA / US merger because they were never able to prove that they would not be a monopoly. At that time it wasn't a merger to simplify it was a merger for the sake of merging. They were not willing to cut the overlapping routs or aircraft. The merger was a mess.

Having said that DL and UA are two different beasts. Where DL is king east of the Mississippi and over the Atlantic UA controls the west and everything over the Pacific. Also all of UA's long haul aircraft are Boeing and they have a formidable 747 and 777 fleet. They also have the worlds largest Trans pacific rout structure.

Having said that they also have a Mount Everest of debt even after their bankruptcy, their management team sucks, and they are the founding member of the star alliance. Merging with UA would come with significant baggage.

While Northwest is also out of sorts they did eliminate a big chunk of debt in their bankruptcy. They would be far less expensive to buy out, they are already involved in SkyTeam and they have the worlds second largest rout structure over the Pacific. Any one keeping up with the Australian open skies knows that the governments are looking at allowing it by way of an Asian hub and we all know that NW is the second largest carrier into TYO.

Now while I have never been in favor of a NW merge between NW or UA I stand strongly behind NW.

FYI: if you are in the UA camp you might be sorely disappointed. It could still go either way but the hint hint wink wink that I got was in favor of NW. That's just what I hear from the little birdie that whispers in my ear from time to time. Also the announcement may be a LOT sooner than what people are thinking. ;) Just smile and watch... this moth will be fun!

[tennreb]

First they didn't allow the UA / US merger because they were never able to prove that they would not be a monopoly. At that time it wasn't a merger to simplify it was a merger for the sake of merging. They were not willing to cut the overlapping routs or aircraft. The merger was a mess.

Having said that DL and UA are two different beasts. Where DL is king east of the Mississippi and over the Atlantic UA controls the west and everything over the Pacific. Also all of UA's long haul aircraft are Boeing and they have a formidable 747 and 777 fleet. They also have the worlds largest Trans pacific rout structure.

Having said that they also have a Mount Everest of debt even after their bankruptcy, their management team sucks, and they are the founding member of the star alliance. Merging with UA would come with significant baggage.

While Northwest is also out of sorts they did eliminate a big chunk of debt in their bankruptcy. They would be far less expensive to buy out, they are already involved in SkyTeam and they have the worlds second largest rout structure over the Pacific. Any one keeping up with the Australian open skies knows that the governments are looking at allowing it by way of an Asian hub and we all know that NW is the second largest carrier into TYO.

Now while I have never been in favor of a NW merge between NW or UA I stand strongly behind NW.

FYI: if you are in the UA camp you might be sorely disappointed. It could still go either way but the hint hint wink wink that I got was in favor of NW. That's just what I hear from the little birdie that whispers in my ear from time to time. Also the announcement may be a LOT sooner than what people are thinking. ;) Just smile and watch... this moth will be fun!

I think NW would be a perfect fit for Delta. It would come at much less cost than UA, and the merger issues wouldn't be as significant because Delta is so much larger than NW. Delta needs NW's pacific routes, and it would have a much larger domestic structure that would feed its pacific routs. Delta could rapidly grow Pacific operations. Also, excess capacity at CIN and MEM could be reduced as more passengers are funneled through ATL and DTW. I doubt CIN and MEM would be eliminated because neither ATL or DTW could handle all the additional traffic. I think CIN would remain a hub while MEM would probably be reduced to focus city status.

[Rail Claimore]

TIMELY ARRIVALS

Top on-time airlines in November:
Hawaiian: 92.4%
Aloha: 91.6%
Delta: 85.6%
Frontier: 84.5%
Southwest: 84.5%
Source: U.S. Department of Transportation

10-28 is doing its job alright. :cool:

[atl2phx]

10-28 is doing its job alright. :cool:

i assume 10-28 is hartsfield #5?

[Sulley]

I wish a DL/CO merger would happen.

[john3eblover]

I wish a DL/CO merger would happen.

thats probably the sexiest of the possibilities

[GTviajero81]

i assume 10-28 is hartsfield #5?

Yes, those would be the coordinates for the Fifth Runway.

[tennreb]

I wish a DL/CO merger would happen.

CO does not have the Pacific route structure that Delta needs.

[atlantaguy]

They may also be one of the few that may not need to merge with anyone, but they probably will once consolidation starts.

[Trae]

CO does not have the Pacific route structure that Delta needs.

Oh I hope they don't merge. CO is a strong airline by itself.

[atlantaguy]

Yeah, but if there is a wave of mergers/consolidations like everyone is predicting, they may have no choice.

[Fiorenza]

Some analyst said, from the point of efficiency the US market can only support three majors and a couple of discounts.

[Trae]

Yeah, but if there is a wave of mergers/consolidations like everyone is predicting, they may have no choice.
I haven't seen CO wanting to merge with anyone in a while. They are doing fine, especially with all of these damn awards they keep winning.

And I think the US can support more than three majors.

[STrek777]

thats probably the sexiest of the possibilities

Oh how I have dreamed of a DL/CO marriage. This almost happened a while back but the CO got pushy and DL backed out.

However if/when we merge with NW I have a strong feeling CVG and MSP will be dropped like a bad habit. The major hubs will be ATL, JFK, DTW, SLC, and LAX... there may be some wiggle room on this one but we shall see.

[Tombstoner]

Oh how I have dreamed of a DL/CO marriage. This almost happened a while back but the CO got pushy and DL backed out.

However if/when we merge with NW I have a strong feeling CVG and MSP will be dropped like a bad habit. The major hubs will be ATL, JFK, DTW, SLC, and LAX... there may be some wiggle room on this one but we shall see.

It's pretty unlikely MSP would be dropped. MEM on the other hand...

[Avian001]

I have a perspective you might be interested in.

There are many, many factors involved before any airline even considers purchasing or merging with Northwest. I used to be an NWA flight attendant and still have several friends there. I am not sure about specific details but from what I always understood, there are several internal things about Northwest that make it different from other US carriers.

One of these issues is that Northwest enjoys a unique relationship with Japan. Northwest was the airline that helped re-build Japan's civil fleet after WWII. JAL owes much of its existence to Northwest. In return, Northwest was granted certain air rights within Japan in perpetuity. For years it was the only US airline allowed to fly into Tokyo and the only one allowed domestic service within the country. While political pressure has permitted other airlines flights there, Northwest still has a very close relationship with the Japanese government and lobbies hard to protect its interests. (Japan does not have an "Open Skies" agreement with the US.) This advantage was structured so that only "Northwest Airlines" is the beneficiary as long as it remains the same company. Any other airline that absorbs Northwest will not have the same advantage in Japan, and would have to start from scratch in negotiations with Tokyo. This arrangement helped NWA build a considerable presence in Asia since Tokyo is its main hub there, and it has a mammoth operation at Narita Airport.

Another factor is that NWA has strong union contracts, despite recent labor problems. Written into those contracts are requirements that any purchase of NWA requires completely new negotiations with its unions. i.e., the contracts cannot be transferred to new owners. This internal protectionism has scared away Delta in the past (Delta is generally non-union). While this is not insurmountable, it doesn't make NWA an attractive target for takeover, but it does make it an attractive buyer.

MSP is the 15th largest airport in the world, and is larger than JFK, Philly, Miami, Detroit, LaGuardia or Dulles, so it's certainly not a minor airport. It's also a "fortress hub" in that NWA accounts for 67% of traffic. As such it is extremely lucrative - one of the most profitable in the US. In negotiations with the state of Minnesota when NWA came out of bankruptcy last summer, all of its contracts with MSP were dependent on retaining MSP as a hub and the Headquarters of NWA. This doesn't mean that these can't be broken, but it does mean considerable re-negotiations with any combined carrier. It's pretty clear that MEM or CVG will likely get the ax due to their proximity to larger NWA & Delta hubs and the smaller market shares each airline has in those hubs.

But who knows? maybe NWA and Delta will merge and move its HQ to Omaha for all we know.:)

[Trae]

I'm glad a CO/Delta merger won't happen because CO is just too valuable (most out of the top 5 world airlines). A Delta/United merger though would make it the largest airline in the world I believe. United is a mess though. If a Delta/NW merger happens, NW's large stock in CO would be gone, which would be a good thing, and then CO could merge with Alaska Airlines, putting a large stake on the West Coast (hub airports like Seattle, Portland, and LAX).

[STrek777]

I'm glad a CO/Delta merger won't happen because CO is just too valuable (most out of the top 5 world airlines). A Delta/United merger though would make it the largest airline in the world I believe. United is a mess though. If a Delta/NW merger happens, NW's large stock in CO would be gone, which would be a good thing, and then CO could merge with Alaska Airlines, putting a large stake on the West Coast (hub airports like Seattle, Portland, and LAX).

Trae you bring up a good point but I find it unlikely that if DL bought NW it would give up the Golden Nugget in the process. Guys I just got done with a conference and let me tell you DL is out for blood. Our new CEO is no joke, he used to be a trial lawyer in a previous life as well as the CEO of United Health Care. I also can't imagine NW union contracts scaring him to much as he was the former CEO of NW and saw many of those provisions written... if there is a back door he will know about it.

Next. I never said MSP wasn't a big beautiful airport and there are some pretty big companies that are headquartered there. I do see the hub being right-sized (do ya'll remember that little phrase from CVG)

We'll have to wait and see what happens. :tup:

[Dragonheart8588]

STrek777,

Aren't you glad I haven't say anything about Delta? ;)

[STrek777]

STrek777,

Aren't you glad I haven't say anything about Delta? ;)

Hey there you are I was wondering how long you were going to let me run rampant on this thread?!

Speaking of I wish you would comment it might be nice to have a "devil's advocate" around here.

A merge on this level could change the face of the industry and no one is debating it just talking about it. :( They have muttled the rumors with facts and for all the screaming I have done about facts in the past I kinda miss the good ole days before them.

So if you have anything Dragonheart let's hear it. please! ;)

[Dragonheart8588]

Hey there you are I was wondering how long you were going to let me run rampant on this thread?!

Speaking of I wish you would comment it might be nice to have a "devil's advocate" around here.

A merge on this level could change the face of the industry and no one is debating it just talking about it. :( They have muttled the rumors with facts and for all the screaming I have done about facts in the past I kinda miss the good ole days before them.

So if you have anything Dragonheart let's hear it. please! ;)

As much as Delta have disappointed me in the past, I would prefer to have them stay headquarter and continue their business. I think it would hurt the economy of Georgia and the airport. However, I could careless for the Delta's ghetto(i.e. Peachtree City).

[STrek777]

As much as Delta have disappointed me in the past, I would prefer to have them stay headquarter and continue their business. I think it would hurt the economy of Georgia and the airport. However, I could careless for the Delta's ghetto(i.e. Peachtree City).

Delta Aims for Swift Merger
With Northwest or United
By PAULO PRADA, SUSAN CAREY and DENNIS K. BERMAN
January 15, 2008; Page A8
Delta Air Lines Inc. has opened merger negotiations with both UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and Northwest Airlines Corp., and hopes to negotiate a merger agreement with one of the airlines over the next two weeks, according to people familiar with the situation.

Delta's board gave permission to Chief Executive Richard Anderson on Friday to begin simultaneous talks with both carriers, those people said. Either scenario would create the largest airline in the U.S.

Delta executives, who completed a round of preliminary discussions with United and Northwest before seeking board permission for formal talks, plan to move swiftly and present the preferred partner to Delta directors when they next meet in early February. A deal could be announced as early as mid-February, according to those people.

A spokeswoman for Atlanta-based Delta declined to comment.
Of the two other airlines, Northwest, based in Eagan, Minn., is considered the more likely of the two partners, according to people involved in the matter. Mr. Anderson is the former chief executive of Northwest and remains close to Douglas M. Steenland, his successor there. Tammy Lee, a spokeswoman for Northwest, declined to comment.

Also, a combination with Northwest, the fifth-largest U.S. airline by passenger traffic, is less likely to run afoul of regulators, who are certain to judge any merger for its impact on fares and competition. United is the second-largest airline by traffic, and Delta ranks third.

At the same time, UAL CEO Glenn F. Tilton has been among the most outspoken advocates for consolidation in the airline industry. Jean Medina, a United spokeswoman, declined to comment.

Many airline executives believe consolidation in the industry is necessary, especially in light of oil's rapid rise. They also believe merger talks must happen quickly because such deals are more likely to be approved by federal regulators under the current Republican administration, though completing a merger agreement in just two weeks is viewed as unrealistic by some industry analysts. Analysts predict that once one major merger occurs in the U.S., a wave of other tie-ups will quickly follow.

In addition to competitive hurdles, other issues that will be discussed include labor structures, route networks, and the broader airline alliances that already exist among major U.S. and foreign carriers.

Write to Paulo Prada at paulo.prada@wsj.com, Susan Carey at susan.carey@wsj.com and Dennis K. Berman at dennis.berman@wsj.com

[megalopolis]

Isakson: Atlanta would keep Delta HQ in any merger

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/15/08

Delta Air Lines' headquarters isn't going anywhere, even if Delta merges with another carrier.

That's what a U.S. senator says Delta's top executive has assured him amid swirling reports of merger negotiations with Northwest and United airlines.

Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) said Tuesday that he talked with Delta CEO Richard Anderson after reports late last week that Anderson wanted the carrier's board to let him open formal merger talks with Northwest and United.

"He reiterated to me the commitment he made in my office shortly after he became CEO," Isakson said. "That is, if Delta does a deal, it will be Delta Air Lines headquartered in Atlanta that's the survivor."

Isakson's account of the conversation followed a fresh report Tuesday that Delta's board gave Anderson permission to move forward with talks. That report, which cited unidentified people familiar with the situation, appeared in The Wall Street Journal.

Northwest is based outside Minneapolis, while United is based in Chicago. A Delta merger with either raises the possibility that the surviving mega-airline — the world's largest — would be based somewhere other than Atlanta. That has raised majors concerns in Georgia, where Delta employs about 25,000 people, mostly in metro Atlanta. A substantial chunk are headquarters employees.

Isakson, who has been a key player in aviation issues in Congress, said he had a brief but cordial telephone chat with Anderson on Friday.

Isakson said it wasn't the first time he discussed the topic with Anderson, who has declined to comment publicly since the latest merger rumors surfaced.

The senator said that in September, shortly after Anderson was hired at Delta, they had a conversation about last year's battle to fend off a US Airways hostile takeover that would likely have moved the airline's headquarters to Arizona.

"I told him ... Richard, you've got to understand something. I didn't fight for the 91,000 retirees and employees at Delta for y'all to haul off and move to some other state.

"And he [Anderson] said: 'Just a minute. There are competitive pressures out there, and obviously Delta's going to be competitive. But anything I do will be predicated on Delta remaining Delta and remaining headquartered in Atlanta.' "

Isakson said he and Anderson did not discuss the specifics of any Delta board considerations in their chat Friday. Isakson said he could neither confirm nor deny the report of merger talks moving forward.

"Last Friday, when he called, he simply reiterated what he had said before [in September], without any caveats," Isakson said.

"We did not get into details."

Delta maintained its no-comment stance Tuesday.

"Our position continues to be that the board is actively looking at all the potential scenarios to make certain that Delta remains a leader in the industry," Delta spokesman Kent Landers said.

Delta shares rose 68 cents, or 4.4 percent, to $15.98 on Tuesday, bucking the market's broad decline.

Standard & Poor's, in a report, said if Delta reaches a deal, other airline mergers will follow.

"We believe it is likely that an announced merger agreement between Delta and either Northwest or United would trigger negotiations between the remaining airline and Continental Airlines," the debt rating agency said.

Landers noted that Delta's board last fall set up a committee to look at strategic alternatives and continues to "consider all options," which could include a merger, strategic alliances with other airlines or some other form of consolidation in the financially battered industry.

Delta's pilots union declined to comment Tuesday.

Some analysts believe Delta aims to present a preferred partner when its board next meets in early February, with a deal announcement coming as early as mid-February.

Some say Delta wants to complete any deal before the Bush administration leaves office.

Former Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said he has no knowledge about the reported merger negotiations.

Grinstein, reached at his Seattle home, said both regulatory and political factors could affect whether any deal is approved.

"Don't leave out Congress. While they may not have the power of approval, they can weigh in," Grinstein said.

He said the head of the House Transportation Committee, Rep. James Oberstar (D-Minn.), is skeptical of mergers. Northwest is based in the Oberstar's district, and he has indicated he'll work to maintain the airline's presence there.

"There are still a lot of potholes that could be in the way," Grinstein said.

Still, high fuel costs and a shaky economic outlook have put new financial pressure on big airlines, and a merger could enable them to cut costs and excess capacity.

United has been a vocal proponent of consolidation, and Northwest's CEO last week told workers the airline is open to the right deal.

While Delta under Grinstein fought off the takeover attempt by US Airways, its top execs have also said they are open to a deal on their terms.

Rajeev Dhawan, director of the Economic Forecasting Center at Georgia State University, said the headquarters issue is a major question for the cities and states involved.

"If the headquarters moves away, there will be a lot of job losses," he said. "You can't have two CEOs. You can't have two CFOs. You will definitely have to have some job losses."

Analysts say it would be easier for Delta to keep its name and Atlanta headquarters in a deal with Northwest, which is smaller than Delta. United, based in Chicago, is larger and arguably a better-known brand, so it might have more leverage in dictating the name and hometown.

But even if an agreement on a deal is reached, a merger would likely face an obstacle course of regulatory and political concerns. Closing any deal could take several months.

[megalopolis]

Oh how I have dreamed of a DL/CO marriage. This almost happened a while back but the CO got pushy and DL backed out.

Just curious, what makes a DL/CO merger better than a DL/UA or a DL/NW merger? The AJC article above states that many industry experts say there is no better match on paper than DL/UA.

Why do they say that Delta's fleet is a better match with United's versus Northwest's?

[john3eblover]

Just curious, what makes a DL/CO merger better than a DL/UA or a DL/NW merger? The AJC article above states that many industry experts say there is no better match on paper than DL/UA.

Why do they say that Delta's fleet is a better match with United's versus Northwest's?

Well, Delta and United have similar aircraft in the 777, 767, 757, and 737. They have lots and lots of all of those. The only aircraft differences that they have are the large amount of A320/A319s and Delta's MD88s.

Northwest on the other hand has A330s, as well as A320/A319, and lots and lots of OLD DC-9s.

Both have a few 747s, but we can only hope that some day they make it into Delta colors!!!

So basically it looks like NW's fleet being slightly more airbus than UA's fleet is less comptable than NW's..to me anyway.

[STrek777]

Well, Delta and United have similar aircraft in the 777, 767, 757, and 737. They have lots and lots of all of those. The only aircraft differences that they have are the large amount of A320/A319s and Delta's MD88s.

Northwest on the other hand has A330s, as well as A320/A319, and lots and lots of OLD DC-9s.

Both have a few 747s, but we can only hope that some day they make it into Delta colors!!!

So basically it looks like NW's fleet being slightly more airbus than UA's fleet is less comptable than NW's..to me anyway.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. On paper UA is the best option but trying to buy out UA would be a very difficult. UA is still valued at about twice as much as DL. A proper analogy would be: DL buying UA would be as difficult as US trying to buy DL. The value of DL and NW dance around in the same sand box with NW leading the dance some and DL leading the dance some. DL buying NW would be an easier sell but nearly all of their fleet is incompatible with ours.

Now CO on the other hand has ALL of the same aircraft as we do, a similar work ethic, similar employee morale, similar business model, and similar rout structure. They have some 30 777s, quite a few 767s, 757s, and 737s. Their international to domestic is 60% - 40% respectively where DL is 40% - 60% respectively. Our CASM is better than theirs but their debt is lower than ours. The cost to buy them out would be more than NW but less than UA. The downside is that both CO and DL overlap on well over 50% of all routes flown. Think of Europe, Central America, South America, India, the Caribbean, and don't forget all the domestic routes. They have EWR we have JFK... they have CLE we have CVG. In reality only the hubs in ATL and IAH set us apart. Merging DL and CO would be the best fit but you would see a capacity drop of right at or just over 50%.

So here are the cliff notes:

DL / NW
- Easier purchase but only compatible with the 767, 757. Bonus second most 747s of any domestic carrier that could easily be refinanced into 777s and they have the second largest order of 787s on the way. They also have the second largest Trans-Pacific rout structure in the world.
- Major Hubs: JFK, ATL, DTW, LAX
- Right-sized Hubs: MSP, SLC

DL / UA
- Difficult purchase and compatible with the 777, 767, 757, 737. Bonus most 747s of any domestic carrier that could easily be refinanced into 777LRs or 787s. They have the largest Trans-Pacific rout structure in the world.
- Major Hubs: JFK, ATL, ORD, DEN, SFO
- Right-sized Hubs: IAD, SLC, LAX

DL / CO
- Easier to purchase than UA and compatible with the 777, 767, 757, 737, md-80, md-90. Bonus no 747s to deal with and has the largest domestic order for 787s. They are neck and neck with us in the Europe, Central America, South America, India, and the Caribbean. They have PEK and we have PVG. We are the leading USA carrier into Africa but they have a hub in GUM. Combining with CO would give us extraordinary pricing power in nearly every market.
- Major Hubs: JFK, ATL, CVG, IAH, SLC, LAX
- Right-sized Hubs: EWR

Any questions? :)

[Fiorenza]

The Delta board gave permission to talk to NW and UA, but not CO?

[Harry Cane]

DL only wanted to talk to UA and NW, not CO. One reason is DL is looking for Asia expansion and both those airlines would give them a turnkey operation. CO would not. UA would also give them west coast hubs, but would be more difficult to achieve for various reasons: labor issues, alliance issues, size issues (it does matter to the DOJ).

CO is not an option for another reason. NW holds a golden share of CO that gives it a say if it wants to merge with another airline.

[Trae]

But if Northwest merges with any airline, they lose that share.

[STrek777]

The Delta board gave permission to talk to NW and UA, but not CO?

Well I am very aware of that. Hoever, I was responding to a question that megalopolis asked.

megalopolis
Just curious, what makes a DL/CO merger better than a DL/UA or a DL/NW merger?

I know that NW and UA are the only ones on the table... sadly.

[cabasse]

But if Northwest merges with any airline, they lose that share.

i'm curious where you heard that, trae - and if it's true, does it have something to do with the laws related to monopolies?