Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[GTviajero81]

Yangtze, I am a bit confused by your idea. If one is a local ATL passenger arriving on a flight at the new International Terminal then one would have no need to return to the Main Terminal area. Should one need to take the train one can just hop on the shuttles or whatever mode of transportation is in effect. The only customers who would need to access Concourses T through E would be non-local passengers, i.e., customers who are only connecting in Atlanta. If that is the case then these passengers would, as in every other domestic airport claim their bags, clear customs, and then proceed to baggage re-check (one exception: passengers connecting in ATL from an international destination and proceeding to another international destination, e.g. Santiago de Chile, Chile --> Atlanta --> Moscow, Russian Federation. These passengers have their bags checked onward).

Regardless, there will still be a security checkpoint at both the entrance to the new Terminal and in the area of the Airport Train station.

[smArTaLlone]

By JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2009/02/10/hartsfield_security_wait.html)
Tuesday, February 10, 2009


Those snaking, hour-long security lines that for years have infuriated passengers at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport might be a thing of the past.

A $26 million security checkpoint expansion, better staffing by the Transportation Security Administration and specially designated security lanes have all but eliminated waits of more than 20 minutes during the last three months.

Ten new security gates opened at Hartsfield-Jackson about three months back — there are now 32 — and the airport added so-called “black diamond” lanes to separate more experienced travelers from their less-traveled counterparts. The airport also opened Clear lanes that cost passengers about $128 a year and are intended primarily for business travelers.

It’s dramatically better,” said Vinings loan officer Kevin Jones. “I think they’ve got it down.”

Jones, who flies three or four times a month, said his waits now average about 10-20 minutes during the busiest travel times. And often, the wait is much less, he said.



Hartsfield-Jackson security lines exceeding 20 minutes:

2007 2008
Nov. 63 0
Dec. 64 3
2008 2009
Jan. 33 2

[Pompuss]

Guys,
On Rosser International's website they have some renderings of an alteration to one side of Concourse C they worked on that was never built. I don't know if it ever will be built. Anyway, the website is flash so I can't really post the pictures. You'll have to go to http://www.rosser.com/site.html and click on "our work" and then click on Aviation/Military. If you ask me Concourse C and D at least need something like this, especially D.

[Rail Claimore]

Guys,
On Rosser International's website they have some renderings of an alteration to one side of Concourse C they worked on that was never built. I don't know if it ever will be built. Anyway, the website is flash so I can't really post the pictures. You'll have to go to http://www.rosser.com/site.html and click on "our work" and then click on Aviation/Military. If you ask me Concourse C and D at least need something like this, especially D.

That would be a spectacular way to update the exterior of all the concourses.

[Tombstoner]

Yeah, the exterior is a real improvement. The interior is a really sterile, however -- no better than what we have now.

[smArTaLlone]

Guys,
On Rosser International's website they have some renderings of an alteration to one side of Concourse C they worked on that was never built. I don't know if it ever will be built. Anyway, the website is flash so I can't really post the pictures. You'll have to go to http://www.rosser.com/site.html and click on "our work" and then click on Aviation/Military. If you ask me Concourse C and D at least need something like this, especially D.

This one? It looks like this might be designed to add additional gates to the Concourse. Its probably a part of the airports long term expansion plans.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/pincfx/ConcourseC.jpg

[cybele]

I wish they would put moving sidewalks within the concourses. It's a hell of a hike for people who don't walk too good.

[Rail Claimore]

I wish they would put moving sidewalks within the concourses. It's a hell of a hike for people who don't walk too good.

With that kind of redesign, they could easily do so.

[Atlwest281]

That would be a very cool design particularly for RJ passengers. Its not a gate but still shielded and covered plus it makes the parking for regionals parking more organized.

[Pompuss]

You know guys, in all seriousness this kind of shows one direction they're trying to go. If you can take one wing of a concourse that is plannned to handle-lets say 20 aircraft and you alter it to handle 30 aircraft of smaller size, and it allows you to keep passengers from having to walk out to the tarmac than you have a win-win situation.

On that note: Various concourses have gone through renovations to alter flooring, walls, retail, etc. What's to say that one day they couldn't go through and add skylights, ala O'hare. It would be expensive but its cheaper than rebuiding a whole new concourse, and it would create a hell of a better experience for the traveler.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/52832875_22e28a229f.jpg?v=0
Hell, what's to say we do something like the above picture to both side of concourses T through D with the alterations to allow for more planes of all sizes.

[Rail Claimore]

That wasn't an add-on job at O'Hare. They tore down and completely rebuilt Terminal 1.

I'd love to see something similar done with the current concourses at ATL, but that's probably 20 years down the road. The recent renovations should stick around for that long.

[smArTaLlone]

Delta Air Lines Inc. plans to start nonstop service this winter between Atlanta and Brasilia, Brazil.

Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) will be the only U.S. airline to fly nonstop to Brasilia starting Dec. 17, pending government approvals.

The airline already has flights to five other Brazilian cities. Delta has flown between Atlanta and Sao Paulo for more than 10 years and has nonstop flights between Atlanta and Rio de Janeiro, New York City-JFK and Sao Paulo, Atlanta and Manaus, and a direct one-stop flight connecting Atlanta to Recife and Fortaleza.

On May 21, Delta also will begin nonstop service between Los Angeles and Sao Paulo.

"As Delta continues to grow in Latin America, this new flight to Brasilia becomes a significant step in our expansion given the governmental and diplomatic activity in Brazil's capital," said Jim Cron, Delta's senior vice president of global sales and distribution, in a news release. "Of course, Brasilia also is a base for some of the most important companies in South America, and we look forward to better serve the travel needs of the business sector by offering more direct flights and connections between Brazil and the United States, Europe and Asia."

[trainiac]

I don't understand this article at all: Lawmaker wants state to run Hartsfield (http://www.ajc.com/printedition/content/printedition/2009/03/14/airport0314.html)

Under what possible authority could the state take over the city-owned airport? Is this guy a crackpot?

[Fiorenza]

I'm all for state takeover. You can be sure this didn't pop up out of nowhere. Delta is very unhappy with the current administration of the airport. Several issues have been handled ineptly.

One thing I noticed: there's a lot of extraneous personnel standing around, being paid for (mostly) by Delta landing fees. I came through the international terminal the other day, and in the customs area there were some 20 extra airport (not customs) employees basically doing nothing but standing around, showing people to the baggage claim and exit which are well-marked anyway. There's a lot of extra "help" in the atrium between the north and south terminals as well. The overall "feel" is schlocky.

[Atlwest281]

Maybe it might be slightly top heavy employee wise but it makes sense to have a lot of helpers on the international side. Alot of people who fly international may never have connected through here or maybe have just never flown internationally and may need extra help. So the state takes the airport over and diverts all the money from that and the metro, to outside the metro? People complain about this airport and how awful it is. Have you used Heathrow or JFK or MIA? Those are badly managed clusters. Lets not forget we have a unique position outside of nnew york to fly to any corner of the world NON-stop yes thats due to Delta but if the airport was badly run and was not a condusive environment than that wouldnt nearly be the case.

[Fiorenza]

The airport is simply designed, which is a big plus, but there are too many people doing unnecessary things. Everything is well-marked. It's a jobs program, and very obvious to everyone who comes through.

Word is that Delta is upset. This city may be killing the golden goose. Delta is considering further developing a couple of sub-hubs at the expense of Atlanta.

[Atlwest281]

Delta realizes that they cant replicate what they have done in ATL at any of there hubs, even DTW. Atlanta realizes that its in its best intrest to make its flagship tenant happy. Its posturing by both. Even Bastian said in the confrence call last week that he expects the issues will be worked out and basically they are on the same page. The DL main hub will still be here any reductions will have to do with the economic realities not with this solvable issue. The international terminal will be built(albeit somewhat late) and things will be fine. :)

[PremierAtlanta]

I see no reason for a state takeover of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. I would also question the reasoning behind this proposal.

By aviation experts, Hartsfield-Jackson was awarded the best run airport...and this was within the last two years. Secondly, as with all big business, Delta's grips about fees at Hartsfield Jackson was pure postering. Again, I lean on industry experts who clearly stated that the tift between the airport and Delta over fees were merely a way to get the airport to hold fees down. With a simple research of fees of other airports, Hartsfield Jackson is not some bloated entity. Even with the 100% increase in fees...which I am totally against...Hartsfield-Jackson would not be drastically above peer airports. In fact it would still be lower than the NYC area airports...and Denver is I am not mistaken...and in line with O'Hare. The airport and Ben DeCosta have recieved numerous accolades from industry leaders and experts.

This brings me to question...why now? What about all the investment that Atlanta has put into the airport over the many decades? Will there be some sort of reimbursement? If anything, the state should focus on getting the cirrus together down at the Department of Transportation. Other neighboring states had shovel ready projects to reap the benefits of the stimulus package. We had none. Personally, I liked Gena Evans as the head, so I'm not going to blame it on her....but if the Department of Transportation and the Dept. of Agriculture are any indication of state run efficiency then I say leave it in the hands of Atlanta.

Talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

[Fiorenza]

AtlWest,

You may be right, but I hope the state takes over and fixes the obvious problems and makes further improvements. It's a state resource, not just an Atlanta resource.

Obviously I'm not a fan of Atlanta.

[PremierAtlanta]

AtlWest,

You may be right, but I hope the state takes over and fixes the obvious problems and makes further improvements. It's a state resource, not just an Atlanta resource.

Obviously I'm not a fan of Atlanta.


Is the airport state supported? Has previous improvements been funded by the state? I'm trying to figure out how it's a state resource. Are they going to take over Middle Georgia Airport in Macon...or the one in Columbus, Augusta and Savannah. Why they are at it, they might as well take over the state's second busiest airport from DeKalb?

I'm neither for nor against Atlanta...I tend to try align myself on the side of RIGHT. When you do that, you can never go wrong.

[Fiorenza]

Airport improvements have always been funded by the airlines, not the city or state. The customers of the airlines are not just Atlanta residents. As a matter of fact, probably less than 10% of the customers are from Atlanta...maybe less than 5%.

I'm not a fan of Atlanta because it's being run in an inept, incompetent way, and the ineptness extends to the airport. A state takeover is needed, and will happen - if not this year, then next year.

[Atlwest281]

Well the state is inept at a whole lot of things as well. From transit to roads to education to healthcare and trauma centers to allowing people the right to vote on liqour sales in individual communities. Basically it would be a lateral move. I think there are far far bigger issues for the state to tackle then taking over the airport. But then again anything to screw the city and put the power in rural hands I guess. Oh well cest la vie :)

[Fiorenza]

At least the state is trying to correct it's problems with DOT bureaucracy, etc. I don't see any reform in Atlanta.

[Atlwest281]

I have never said the city shouldnt show reform because i think we both can agree that it needs alot of it in a lot of different aspects but one of the few things it does right is the airport. I mean The airport is getting high end retail that the northern burbs would kill to have, they are re-doing the concourses, the new rental car consolidated facility will reduce alot of traffic at the airport and bring in more parking spaces for the airport, they are dealing with the vagrants who use the airport as a home. I mean to discount what is and has been done by the city is really not right. But then again its a tale as old as time.

[Fiorenza]

It's a tale as old as time, indeed.

[cybele]

A state takeover is needed, and will happen - if not this year, then next year.

Now that would be a fiasco. The state of Georgia doesn't know which end is up, and doesn't have the foggiest idea where it's spending our money. Last I heard they were running a $2 billion deficit. Not to mention all the political and personnel shenanigans that are constantly going on.

I favor leaving things like the airport under local control -- where it works, and actually turns a profit -- rather than handing it over to a bunch of bureaucrats and politicians who don't have a clue. This country has already been going socialist for the last 30 years and there's no reason for you Democrats to start messing with something like the airport, which is one of the few things that works like it's supposed to. Don't try to fix it if it ain't broke.

[trainiac]

At least the state is trying to correct it's problems with DOT bureaucracy, etc. I don't see any reform in Atlanta.

Whatever -- Georgia is a basketcase.... last or in the bottom 3 in just about every measurable category of state activity.

In what legal way can the state take over the city-owned airport?

[Fiorenza]

Here's a novel idea. Let's let Delta lobby for the management solution they prefer. After all, they pay the bills.

But regarding the state of Georgia, as a right-winger I'd like to see changes in the state governance as well, but my idea of reform would be to eliminate the state income tax and cut the bureaucracy in half. As for the present deficit: !) we're in a recession, and 2) under the GA constitution they have to balance the budget one way or another, so the budget will be balanced. It seems they want to take it out of the bureaucracy, and that's just fine by me.

Face it, the GOP owns this state, and Atlanta needs to learn how to cooperate in that environment, not do things that insult the rest of the state...like making the airport terminal into a jobs program.

[Fiorenza]

trainiac,

Yes we're in the bottom rung of states, but with our demographic makeup nothing will change no matter what the public policies. We just have to live with and adapt to our situation. Some of us will relocate if things get worse.

[PremierAtlanta]

Airport improvements have always been funded by the airlines, not the city or state. The customers of the airlines are not just Atlanta residents. As a matter of fact, probably less than 10% of the customers are from Atlanta...maybe less than 5%.

I'm not a fan of Atlanta because it's being run in an inept, incompetent way, and the ineptness extends to the airport. A state takeover is needed, and will happen - if not this year, then next year.

So by that logic I suppose we will see you front and center for a state takeover of MARTA as well. The taxpayers of Fulton, DeKalb and Atlanta have been footing that bill when a percentage of patrons are not residents of aforementioned jurisdictions. I would also wager that a vast majority of the OD numbers are from metro Atlanta and not Georgia....so why should the state take over. Let's lobby for a metro Atlanta district and have it to take over the airport and all public transportation entities. Take Grady also.

Let's not cherry pick...if we are going to take the airport, let's take everything. Why stop at the money makers...especially when we weren't apart of the money that built it in the first place.

[PremierAtlanta]

trainiac,

Yes we're in the bottom rung of states, but with our demographic makeup nothing will change no matter what the public policies. We just have to live with and adapt to our situation. Some of us will relocate if things get worse.

Well maybe the state leaders need to bring better paying jobs to the state so there won't be so many disadvantaged poor people in this state. You were talking about socio-economic demographics right?

[Fiorenza]

Actually, racial demographics. Every poor state save West Virginia has high black percentages. Just the facts. If that percentage increases, and/or the Mexican percentage increases, it will mean less favorable socioeconomic circumstances.

[Atlwest281]

Ah so its the black population bringing the test scores down for education? Wow. Lets see the failing education scores come from outside of the metro area in rural ga counties where the vast majority of the population is not black. If you look at the break down the drop out rate, the literacy rate, its not the metro bringing the scores down for the state. But of course black people are terrible and awful and represent poverty and everything bad.

The republicans own Georgia and Atlanta needs to deal with it? LOL well internationally this petty state crap is seen in business communities and will cost us jobs. The state needs to realize that punching Atlanta its own capital city!! Will do nothing but reinforce the stereotypes that we are a state run by buffoons.

[Rail Claimore]

Here's a novel idea. Let's let Delta lobby for the management solution they prefer. After all, they pay the bills.

But regarding the state of Georgia, as a right-winger I'd like to see changes in the state governance as well, but my idea of reform would be to eliminate the state income tax and cut the bureaucracy in half. As for the present deficit: !) we're in a recession, and 2) under the GA constitution they have to balance the budget one way or another, so the budget will be balanced. It seems they want to take it out of the bureaucracy, and that's just fine by me.

Face it, the GOP owns this state, and Atlanta needs to learn how to cooperate in that environment, not do things that insult the rest of the state...like making the airport terminal into a jobs program.

I would be happy with just being able to deduct federal income tax liability from your state income taxes. That's what Alabama does. It's about as good as you can get without getting rid of it altogether. That and doing away with personal property taxes (cars) and taxing strictly real property.

As a young man in his 20's, if I had to choose between moving to Louisiana and Georgia, the fact that Louisiana is another state with an income tax deduction and the fact that it's the state with the lowest property taxes anywhere would factor highly in the decision. We're talking about a state that people left from to pursue dreams elsewhere.

Sadly, I see Georgia leaning ever closer towards being a big government state, a lot like Illinois. I was living there when they raised sales taxes to ridiculous rates in the Chicago area and when property taxes went sky high. It was all in the name of saving failing government bureaucracies such as transit agencies and hospital systems. That same debate is happening in Georgia right now. Sonny and his crew aren't as conservative as they'd have many Georgians believe. They're doing everything they can to defend the current system behind closed doors. The only person with any power under the gold dome that has it right is House Speaker Richardson, but Sonny and Cagle have basically shoved him aside.

There are really only four Southern states that are truly conservative (or are heading in the right direction) when it comes to tax policies and economic development: Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas.

[Fiorenza]

Yes, rail, I also am very unhappy with the direction the GOP leadership is taking this state, fiscally speaking. They're seeking out tax gimmicks to fix the budget, and waiting on Washington to bail them out, rather than going for real tax reforms that would make the state more competitive as compared with the aforementioned neighbor states. For a variety of reasons the state of Georgia isn't looking too good for business development these days. The one advantage is the airport, and Atlanta is trying to screw that up.

[Atlwest281]

If Georgia could move faster in terms of making the state more appealing to business and even potential residents it would be great. There is no reason Atlanta couldn't be come a banking and financial hub(I know not the best industry right now) but regulations need to be changed more to mirror NC. I think overall the issue is that there are to many in state government who don't have the skill sets to handle the positions they have been entrusted with. That goes for the city as well. Taxes wise it would be fantastic to have lower taxes and to have taxes more transparent and more direct interms of there uses. But i fear we wont see a drastic tax code change here in our life time. Car tax well the idea of giving only new car purchasers a break from the advaloreum tax is idiotic. It would have gone a long way to making citizens happy it was across the board but oh well.

The airport isnt as mucked up as people would like to think. I think a reduction in redundant positions. a tad more focus on keeping the place clean which has gotten better btw, expanding the retail and dining options a little more than what has been announced for the summer and getting that international terminal built so the recheck isn't necessary would go along way. Will Hartsfield ever be Changi, KLIA, or even Bangkok? No because of the cultural differences etc but can it be a better place sure.

[cybele]

I'll at least have to give the city of Atlanta credit for making its performance assessments available online. It's far from perfect but you won't find that sort of transparency in many other levels of government.

http://web.atlantaga.gov/atlstat/index.shtml#

[atlantaguy]

Airport improvements have always been funded by the airlines, not the city or state. The customers of the airlines are not just Atlanta residents. As a matter of fact, probably less than 10% of the customers are from Atlanta...maybe less than 5%.

I'm not a fan of Atlanta because it's being run in an inept, incompetent way, and the ineptness extends to the airport. A state takeover is needed, and will happen - if not this year, then next year.

No. Try between 30 - 35% for O&D in Atlanta.

Atlanta is ranked about 6th in the country for O&D figures.

Try again.

[Atlwest281]

Yeah ATL does have some of the highest OD in the country. This is one of the factors which has helped to make the airport successful. Connections alone would not constitute near the amount of feed we have. OD has to also be high to warrant 80 billion flights a day to Nyc metro airports. Okay maybe not 80 billion but close to it lol :)

I think the OD feed is like NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, Bay area, ATL then the big Texas cities. I think the order is not quite right but close to it. Ill search for the numbers and post them.

[Fiorenza]

I was speaking of just the city of Atlanta O&D...the city is less than 10% of the metro...

Again, I'm not a fan of (city of) Atlanta, but we're all in this together. Atlanta should welcome state involvement and try to find ways to accommodate the rest of us surburbanites, instead of alienating us and everybody else by way of a schlocky experience at the airport. And it is schlocky.

[Atlwest281]

I agree during the Campbell administration he was very very divisive. But suburbanites need to do there part as well. The constant belittling of the city and trying at every opportunity to take from the city doesn't foster a good rapport. Things have gotten better but I mean what do you want the airport to do to make the experience more palatable to the suburbanite? I mean they are putting in high end retail. Putting in new restaurants that will appeal to a more urbane taste, updating the decor I mean what else can they do? Put an Ann Taylor Gap Starbucks every 10 feet? Or have betty's in Kate Spade helping people get to where they need? I mean all sarcasm aside what do YOU think needs to be done since its such a third world experience.

[OCA REP]

Atlanta should welcome state involvement and try to find ways to accommodate the rest of us surburbanites, instead of alienating us and everybody else by way of a schlocky experience at the airport.

Maybe if the state had been involved, the proposed international terminal would not be forced into being named for Jackson. I will always believe one or the other should have happened; not both. Add his name to the entire airport title or name the new terminal after him. Overkill is overkill!

[cybele]

Again, I'm not a fan of (city of) Atlanta, but we're all in this together. Atlanta should welcome state involvement and try to find ways to accommodate the rest of us surburbanites, instead of alienating us and everybody else by way of a schlocky experience at the airport. And it is schlocky.

When I come in from the suburbs the airport just seems like a regular airport to me. What's schlocky or alienating about it?

It is time for the state to start ponying up some money for the airport rather than just continuing to ride on the back of it. But it would be a fiasco for the state to attempt to run something that complicated. Look at the way they've "handled" issues like water and transportation in the metro area.

Okay, they did pass a law saying it's okay to pack heat in the airport. I guess they get advanced management kudos for that.

[Atlwest281]

I think what is being hinted in terms of it being alienating is that the make up of the workforce at the airport is not the typical suburban fare so thus its disconcerting for some. That is basically what is trying to be said but in not so many words. I might be wrong, but I doubt it. Most people who use the airport see it as a means to commute or travel not as something that should be a suburban utopia. As i said before Hartsfield will not be Changi or Bangkok, or KLIA, or even DXB. Different culture. What Hartsfield will be is an efficient mover of people from point a to point b with decent amenities and a myriad of air services to choose from. hmmm pretty much what it is now. :)

[cybele]

I think what is being hinted in terms of it being alienating is that the make up of the workforce at the airport is not the typical suburban fare so thus its disconcerting for some. That is basically what is trying to be said but in not so many words.

I still don't get it. How is the workforce at the airport different from the workforce in all the other suburbs? I've never heard anybody comment on that.

And what makes a workforce "schlocky"?

[PremierAtlanta]

I was speaking of just the city of Atlanta O&D...the city is less than 10% of the metro...

Again, I'm not a fan of (city of) Atlanta, but we're all in this together. Atlanta should welcome state involvement and try to find ways to accommodate the rest of us surburbanites, instead of alienating us and everybody else by way of a schlocky experience at the airport. And it is schlocky.

I'm curious to know...how many airports have you flown into and out of Fiorenza? How often do you fly? What is it about Hartsfield-Jackson that seems shoddy, inferior or cheap? How does the state....when it is itself in a financial bind fix those issues? We travel quite often and I guess I'm too busy worrying about my luggage arriving at the same time that I do (at any airport) than if the airport has a 4 star or better experience. Believe me when I tell you, I am a four star kind of lady. If anybody would be turned off by shoddy or inferior, it probably would be me. I'm also interested in your explaination for how well Hartsfield is ranked in terms of efficency and presentation by industry leaders and business travel planners.

I'm a suburbanite. Have been all my life. Lived in Plano, TX, family moved to Dunwoody of Fulton when I was 13, met my husband moved to Roswell and later settled in Alpharetta. In all my times of going to the aiport, I have never once came away saying "honey, don't you find the airport rather schlocky?"

Can you be more specific in your disdain? Also, can you give examples of airports you feel do not exhibit the air of "schlocky?" Also, how many of those are state run airports?

[PremierAtlanta]

Actually, racial demographics. Every poor state save West Virginia has high black percentages. Just the facts. If that percentage increases, and/or the Mexican percentage increases, it will mean less favorable socioeconomic circumstances.


I figured that was what you were referring to. I have no idea what this has to do with the airport. Most of those poor states are in the deep south...correct. Perhaps there are some other long term social issues at play here that did not start with the airport so why don't we keep the sociological diatribes to more appropiate threads. Georgia as a whole is downtrodden....but metro Atlanta has a much higher household income than the rest of the state. By that thought then we definitely do not want the state to take over. It can not even properly employ its populace...and barely educate their children.

You are not making a strong case for a state takeover of Hartsfield-Jackson.

[Atlwest281]

PremierAtlanta you make so much sense. Some always seem to go to race issue to prove some point and really its not needed. Im glad to see others can look past that to make a point be it pro or con for the airport. I actually enjoy going to the airport(full disclosure I travel alot and I am a huge aviation fan) it always amazes me how such a big place is run so efficiently. I look forward to trying out some of the new spaces opening up. The Zegna store will be nice nice and that 10south resturant on E will certainly be a huge step up in the food department. :)

[Fiorenza]

Premier, I've been through the top 20 airports in Europe and the US. The basic attributes of the Atlanta airport are sound. The people mover is great. The layout is great. It's the easiest major airport I've ever seen to make transfers.

What I mainly object to is seeing scores of people being obviously underemployed in what amounts to an Atlanta jobs program. It's the first thing international travellers must notice. It's obviously that - and yes, it happens that all those workers are black. I'd be equally disconcerted if they were white. It's obviously a make-woprk program, and reflects badly on the city's image. And Delta is paying for it, and airtravelers indirectly.

[Sulley]

Hmm, I never noticed that and I fly quite often. I guess I'm mostly planes potting and people watching and I don't notice the things that you do, Fiorenza.

[Fiorenza]

I see it primarily in the atrium and the international arrivals area. I'm an accountant, and I tend to notice operational/HR inefficiencies.

[cybele]

What I mainly object to is seeing scores of people being obviously underemployed in what amounts to an Atlanta jobs program. It's the first thing international travellers must notice. It's obviously that - and yes, it happens that all those workers are black. I'd be equally disconcerted if they were white. It's obviously a make-woprk program, and reflects badly on the city's image.

You don't have to go inside the city limits to see underemployed "workers" (of all skin tones) piddling around doing nothing. They are abundant everywhere. I've even heard of people posting on the Internet when they're supposed to be working.

[OCA REP]

What I mainly object to is seeing scores of people being obviously underemployed in what amounts to an Atlanta jobs program. It's the first thing international travellers must notice. It's obviously that - and yes, it happens that all those workers are black. I'd be equally disconcerted if they were white. It's obviously a make-woprk program, and reflects badly on the city's image. And Delta is paying for it, and airtravelers indirectly.

As a traveler that uses ATL often, I am always making connections and am generally never in the atrium or outside the secure areas of the airport. That being said, I have encountered the so-called "work program" employees in the international arrivals area on more than one occasion. They were always helpful to the travlers I saw them interacting with, but I can certainly understand the comments that have been made about them... but I do not feel that makes the airport "schlocky."

I have much more of a problem with the people Delta (or whomever) employs on C and D to work gate positions with their Delta Connection operations. Talk about black, uneducated, and unable to speak... you can see it all there. I know this is not the case with all of them, but they generally give an "I don't care" attitude and tend to bring down my opinion of the airport. Surely these are not the best people Delta could find?

[Atlwest281]

Its basically a no win. If you have to few people working in the airport people complain oh there isn't enough help or service, you have to "many working", its to much and its a work program. Lets remember it is the number one airport in the world for passengers use. It should make sense to have as many workers as possible. The airport handled 89 million people last year. The problems with the airport are not the Hartsfield employees per say, it is the employees with the respective airlines. The agents on C are half Delta Regional or DCI, and Half Airtran, the agents on D i believe are Delta Mainline. DCI agents are notorious for being somewhat surely be they blacks or white. Delta mainline gate handling usually is on the ball.

[OCA REP]

Its basically a no win. If you have to few people working in the airport people complain oh there isn't enough help or service, you have to "many working", its to much and its a work program.

Very true.

DCI agents are notorious for being somewhat surely be they blacks or white.

We have a DCI station in MGM and (maybe we are just lucky) but they are much sharper than anything I have ever encountered on C or D in ATL.

[16click]

As a traveler that uses ATL often, I am always making connections and am generally never in the atrium or outside the secure areas of the airport. That being said, I have encountered the so-called "work program" employees in the international arrivals area on more than one occasion. They were always helpful to the travlers I saw them interacting with, but I can certainly understand the comments that have been made about them... but I do not feel that makes the airport "schlocky."

I have much more of a problem with the people Delta (or whomever) employs on C and D to work gate positions with their Delta Connection operations. Talk about black, uneducated, and unable to speak... you can see it all there. I know this is not the case with all of them, but they generally give an "I don't care" attitude and tend to bring down my opinion of the airport. Surely these are not the best people Delta could find?


Would you understand me flying to Sea-Tac's airport and not being able to understand the large Asian population, working the same jobs Atl's black employees are, at their airport? Even though they were very helpful, they were unable to speak proper English and my questions were answered with incomplete sentences. So I guess they're uneducated FOBs? That'd be absurd for me to make that assumption!

Come on people! It just shows the diversity of our country and the many that come with English speaking people. Not everyone you come in contact with will speak "proper" English and you shouldn't expect it. How quick we are to judge people that aren't like us and not only by skin color!

And you should expect a lot of employees at Atl with it being the busiest airport in the world in terms of passengers.

Don't know why being black almost always has a negative connotation. I guess people have higher expectations for blacks than other minorities that don't fit perfectly to "the white-mans standard".

[Fiorenza]

Atlanta being Atlanta, I suspect there is a political angle to the black workforce at the airport.

[Fiorenza]

I don't think many whites these days believe "all" blacks are surly and not able to communicate effectively. Some of them are unfortunately so, and in certain work situations they tend to predominate. As the saying goes, bad money drives out good money. I know a number personally who are a pleasure to deal with, but unfortunately when you see scores of exclusively black workers at the airport who are in "make work" "political" positions or not well-matched to customer service jobs, then it's easy to jump to broad generalizations. I can imagine that arriving foreigners who do not have a lot of experience with blacks in different settings could easily draw the wrong blanket conclusions.

[L41A]

As a traveler that uses ATL often, I am always making connections and am generally never in the atrium or outside the secure areas of the airport. That being said, I have encountered the so-called "work program" employees in the international arrivals area on more than one occasion. They were always helpful to the travlers I saw them interacting with, but I can certainly understand the comments that have been made about them... but I do not feel that makes the airport "schlocky."

I have much more of a problem with the people Delta (or whomever) employs on C and D to work gate positions with their Delta Connection operations. Talk about black, uneducated, and unable to speak... you can see it all there. I know this is not the case with all of them, but they generally give an "I don't care" attitude and tend to bring down my opinion of the airport. Surely these are not the best people Delta could find?


"Find a fool, leave a fool"

[OCA REP]

Don't know why being black almost always has a negative connotation.

I do not think this is always the case. I was referring solely to the employees out on C and D that try to handle customers without any customer service or proper english-speaking skills. On the Delta Connection end, these employees generally tend to be black. A fact is a fact and some of you do not like discussing it.

[Atlwest281]

Really i guess it could have simply read the agents working on c and d are some of the rudest in the airport. I think putting they are black sounds like its suppose to add even more validity to that point. I think the tone that was perceived was that because they are black they they are worthless and as such its par for the course that they cant speak proper English etc etc. :) Im not implying any wrong doing or anything like that on your part im just saying how it comes across.
The fact remains that this is the south and one shouldn't expect the kings English to be spoken by anybody, being this region doesn't have that great of a track record when it comes to English spoken properly.

[OCA REP]

The fact remains that this is the south and one shouldn't expect the kings English to be spoken by anybody, being this region doesn't have that great of a track record when it comes to English spoken properly.

Very true. All races are often guilty of this.

I was just giving an example of what I have witnessed most often on C and D at ATL. Unfortunately in those particular customer service jobs (making flight number announcements, etc.) it is very important to speak clearly and not come across as someone making a call for a price check at Wal-Mart.

[Atlwest281]

:previous:
LOL that is so so true lol. Price check at Wal-Mart I love it :) I know you werent trying to be mean or devisive. Unfortunately I think its a failing of the airline for not training and insisting that there employees speak more clearer. But it is the time of slang and slack speaking and little to no correction of said behavior, i guess because the ones in charge are probably guilty of the same. Maybe someday it will change. :)

Something to add interms of numbers for ops at Harsfield in 2008 and other world airports that I saw on airliners.net today. For the sheer amount of traffic and movement that ATL handles it is running very well. :)

Top-20

By Passengers:
1. ATL - 90 039 280
2. ORD - 69 353 654
3. LHR - 67 056 228
4. HND - 66 735 587
5. CDG - 60 851 998
6. LAX - 59 542 151
7. DFW - 57 069 331
8. PEK - 55 662 256
9. FRA - 53 467 450
10. DEN - 51 435 575
11. MAD - 50 823 105
12, HKG - 47 898 000
13. JFK - 47 790 485
14. AMS - 47 429 741
15. LAS - 44 074 707
16. IAH - 41 698 832
17. PHX - 39 890 896
18. BKK - 38 604 009
19. SIN - 37 694 824
20. DXB - 37 441 440


By Aircraft Movements:
1. ATL - 978 824
2. ORD - 881 566
3. DFW - 656 310
4. DEN - 615 573
5. LAX - 615 525
6. LAS - 578 949
7. IAH - 576 062
8. CDG - 559 812
9. CLT - 536 253
10. PHX - 502 499
11. PHL - 492 010
12. FRA - 485 783
13. LHR - 478 569
14. MAD - 469 740
15. DTW - 462 284
16. MSP - 446 840
17. AMS - 446 626
18. JFK - 435 750
19. EWR - 433 463
20. MUC - 432 296


By cargo metric tonnes:
1. MEM - 3 695 561
2. HKG - 3 656 724
3. PVG - 2 598 795
4. ICN - 2 423 717
5 - ANC - 2 361 088
6. CDG - 2 280 049
7. FRA - 2 111 116
8. NRT - 2 099 349
9. SDF - 1 973 965
10. SIN - 1 883 894
11. DXB - 1 824 992
12. MIA - 1 806 769
13. LAX - 1 630 385
14. AMS - 1 602 584
15. TPE - 1 493 120
16. LHR - 1 486 260
17. JFK - 1 446 491
18. ORD - 1 324 820
19. PEK - 1 303 258
20. BKK - 1 173 131

Full rankings and further details can be found at:
(http://www.aci.aero/aci/aci/file/Press%20Releases/2009/PR_160309_PrelimResults_2008_final.pdf)

[Atlwest281]

:previous: \
The link for the above info comes from
http://www.aci.aero/aci/aci/file/Press%20Releases/2009/PR_160309_PrelimResults_2008_final.pdf

[PremierAtlanta]

I guess in the world of forecast staffing, you are darn if you do and you are darned if you don't. If there weren't enough people then there will be those who complain about NOT having adequate customer service. You have too many and they claim people are riding the clock. With any varying service type industry, you forecast staffing to handle the surge times. They may not be 24 hours a day. It's better to have two more people to handle the surge than not enough.

As far as the education level of the people working there, aren't these jobs near minimum wage? You get what you pay for. I, for one, am not educating my children only to have them work a job such as these. I do applaud the people working them. If their diction is less than stellar, I would rather for them to work than to sit around and use that as an excuse why they can't work. I suggest that if anyone has an issue with the diction of the airport workers, then they should, by all means, pass this on to the proper authorities. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. If we don't like the service we are getting, it won't change by merely coming to some website and complaining about the race, education level or diction of the people working.

Remember, there is always someone above you. How far would it be to turn my nose up to someone who has to work at someone else's company because they are mere middle class minions? That would be quite off-putting...well I am put off by middleclass people who suppose themselves greater when they are a mere blessing away from those they scorn.

Now, perhaps this will get us back on track to discussing the airport solely.

While I was perusing the AJC online, I came across an op-ed written by Mr. Jim Wooten. I'm surprised I missed it because I actually read a hard copy of the AJC daily. I agree wholeheartedly with him on this occassion as I have agreed with him on many other topics in the past.


http://blogs.ajc.com/thinking-right/2009/03/19/does-atlanta-airport-need-fixing/

[cybele]

As far as the education level of the people working there, aren't these jobs near minimum wage? You get what you pay for. I, for one, am not educating my children only to have them work a job such as these. I do applaud the people working them.

I don't begrudge anyone who's working for a living. Frankly, given the state of the market these days, I'm probably working for less than minimum wage myself. So I'm definitely not about to get high and mighty on anybody who's pulling down a regular paycheck.

Except maybe these financier dudes who are given zillions in taxpayer money for driving their company, their shareholders, their country and their fellow citizens into disaster. I have no idea what race they are or what their elocution is like, but they are about as sorry a bunch as I've ever seen. Those jerks are given more in one year "bonuses" than most of us earn in a lifetime of honest labor.

[OCA REP]

Now, perhaps this will get us back on track to discussing the airport solely.

All of the discussion related to airport employees is right on topic for a thread concerning ATL. This subject is just as relevant as what new designer shop, restaurant, etc. is opening on the premises.

[cybele]

These financial rip-off artists are right on target, too. Even one of those guys makes many times more than all the airport people put together -- and for doing nothing productive whatsoever. Talk about worthless bums!! They make our airport workers look incredibly productive. By comparison, these "finance" types really give the country a black eye.

[Atlwest281]

With delta renaming the Crown Rooms, to SkyClub will there be a major renovation etc? I know the lounge on C is the newest but will they all be refreshed or is this being sorted out as they bring the best of both carriers Northwest and Delta together?
By all accounts on March 31/April 1st Northwest will get the Delta uniforms, all personnel with direct customer visibility, the in flight catering, and the new Sky magazine. Should be an exciting day.

[PremierAtlanta]

All of the discussion related to airport employees is right on topic for a thread concerning ATL. This subject is just as relevant as what new designer shop, restaurant, etc. is opening on the premises.

Then perhaps you should take my post in earnest and follow my lead. When I am a paying customer of any location, I demand top rate service. If I don't get it, I don't berate the hired help, I go directly to the powers that be and demand change. Some could take this as a little witchy but I always suppose that it's better to demand quality than to moan and complain about it amongst people who are of little power to change it. Well I could if it bothered me as it does you...but it doesn't....so I don't care to waste my time with it.

I choose to be most effective in everything I do. Perhaps you should do the same. We can't change the type of people hired at the airport by merely complaining here. All we can do if offer cheese with your whine. If you want change, demand it...fill out customer service replies and send them in. Call Ben DeCosta's office and leave messages. If he is getting reports from travellers that are giving the airport a 70% approval rating then that means that somebody must be quite satisfied. If this is a problem for you then I suggest you alert the proper authorities...coming here to complain about the less educated is not the best way. I'm sure if they were afforded an education like I can for my children then they would deserve redicule...but I highly doubt this was the case.

Maybe you can make a difference to those people. Instead of us going to our second homes on the lake or the ocean for the summer, maybe we can offer tutorials to help fix the diction problems of these people you speak of. I'm sure the blessing you get from that will be twentyfold the parties you may have attended over the summer.

[OCA REP]

When I am a paying customer of any location, I demand top rate service. If I don't get it, I don't berate the hired help, I go directly to the powers that be and demand change.

I am the exact same way... the squeeky wheel, you know. I have discussed this with Delta Station Managers and through them learned who to send written correspondence to at their corporate offices.

coming here to complain about the less educated is not the best way.

Already addressed this above, but I will point out again that this is a forum concerning ATL and I am free to discuss what I feel is a problem or issue at the airport.

Instead of us going to our second homes on the lake or the ocean for the summer, maybe we can offer tutorials to help fix the diction problems of these people you speak of.

Ummm... no. I work too hard and want to enjoy my downtime with my family and friends. It's difficult enough to endure some of these people while sitting at the airport gate. I will let that suffice.

I am Sarah Palin...except I don't hunt.

I really appreciate your thoughts/comments, but if this signature line is true, we are fundamentally worlds apart and will probably disagree on several issues...

[ATLonthebrain]

This has been quite an interesting discussion. I'm glad someone decided to bring up their personal feelings about ATL's shortcomings to initiate a spirited round of posts. One question I have about the employees on Concourse E is whether they are paid or volunteers? I know for a fact that the Airport has a fairly extensive Airport Customer Service Program, but believe those employees are volunteers. And, if they are paid, you can bet they are not highly paid positions. As for the DL Conn and AirTran employees on Conc C, I have encountered both rude/nonchalant attitudes as well as pleasant/cheerful ones. And, yes, most of those faces were black, and largely female. Also, I recall during the Olympics there were dozens of volunteers staffed at periods throughout the day to assist those arriving into ATL internationally via Conc E. And, there are far more passengers utilizing that facility today than in Summer '96. I think those bodies are out there on Conc E for a reason, and it could very well be in collaboration WITH Delta and other carriers operating internationally @ ATL.

I fly through DEN quite regularly and it's a flip of the coin as to how the UA gate agents are going to "handle" me if and when I have a question. It just so happens that most of these agents are white or hispanic. Does the color of their skin dictate the attitude and helpfulness I can expect? I don't think so, personally. As for why the vast majority of these agents of note in ATL are predominantly black, I say look at the population within a 10-mile radius of the airport. The majority of those residents are black, and I suspect it is because they live in relative close proximity to the Airport that they seek jobs there. Also, if they don't have transportation, they can take MARTA to get to work @ ATL rather easily and cheaply.

I firmly believe in great customer service, and I think that the Airport itself (City of Atlanta, Department of Aviation) has been striving to deliver on a more consistent basis. I've noticed changes in my airport experience @ ATL over the last couple of years in comparison to previous instances. These changes are largely for the better. Of course there's room for improvement, but seems the Airport is largely on the right track. We can post here and gripe about what's wrong and needs fixing, but I suspect most of us have no idea whatsoever of what it takes to run the World's Busiest Airport, or any airport for that matter. I have extensive experience in this arena, so perhaps my perspective is slightly different and at least a bit more informed.

I am a black man, and I cringe just as much, if not moreso, when I encounter someone of my own ethnicity falling short of the mark in giving subpar customer service than with any other race (sadly, I witness this "falling short" event far too often...). Why is that? It's because I firmly believe that my race is often held to a higher standard of expectations, generally speaking, by those of other races. It goes all the way up the chain throughout socioeconomic status and professional rankings. I read online posts, watch body language, listen to comments made by people around me (whom I know and whom I simply observe), and it seems there is a different standard when the person(s) is black. As I said, even I do it, so I am not immune, but it's because I want to see others who look like me do better and strive for more. At the end of the day, I don't really care what color the person's skin is. The standard should be the same for all.

There are surely some who have been misplaced into positions with regular public interaction. It doesn't begin and end at the airport. It's everywhere. All I can hope for is that people generally feel more thankful for the fact they have a job in the current economic environment and that they put their individual and collective pride on display more regularly so it can be seen, felt, and heard. I might be living in a fantasy world, but I for one am grateful for and love my job and try to show it often. I wish more people could feel that way and be more positive.

[Atlwest281]

Absolutely well written and articulated post! :) I wish more would post in this manner and not try ot be shocking or purposely insensitive. You are correct what it takes to run the airport is beyond the grasp of most people. Most people in general dont understand commercial aviation. When ever I go to Hartsfield I always am in a great mood and feel so excited to be in a pulsing place like it. When I return fro ma trip its so so so fantastic to see.

[OCA REP]

This has been quite an interesting discussion. I'm glad someone decided to bring up their personal feelings about ATL's shortcomings to initiate a spirited round of posts. One question I have about the employees on Concourse E is whether they are paid or volunteers? I know for a fact that the Airport has a fairly extensive Airport Customer Service Program, but believe those employees are volunteers. And, if they are paid, you can bet they are not highly paid positions. As for the DL Conn and AirTran employees on Conc C, I have encountered both rude/nonchalant attitudes as well as pleasant/cheerful ones. And, yes, most of those faces were black, and largely female. Also, I recall during the Olympics there were dozens of volunteers staffed at periods throughout the day to assist those arriving into ATL internationally via Conc E. And, there are far more passengers utilizing that facility today than in Summer '96. I think those bodies are out there on Conc E for a reason, and it could very well be in collaboration WITH Delta and other carriers operating internationally @ ATL.

I fly through DEN quite regularly and it's a flip of the coin as to how the UA gate agents are going to "handle" me if and when I have a question. It just so happens that most of these agents are white or hispanic. Does the color of their skin dictate the attitude and helpfulness I can expect? I don't think so, personally. As for why the vast majority of these agents of note in ATL are predominantly black, I say look at the population within a 10-mile radius of the airport. The majority of those residents are black, and I suspect it is because they live in relative close proximity to the Airport that they seek jobs there. Also, if they don't have transportation, they can take MARTA to get to work @ ATL rather easily and cheaply.

I firmly believe in great customer service, and I think that the Airport itself (City of Atlanta, Department of Aviation) has been striving to deliver on a more consistent basis. I've noticed changes in my airport experience @ ATL over the last couple of years in comparison to previous instances. These changes are largely for the better. Of course there's room for improvement, but seems the Airport is largely on the right track. We can post here and gripe about what's wrong and needs fixing, but I suspect most of us have no idea whatsoever of what it takes to run the World's Busiest Airport, or any airport for that matter. I have extensive experience in this arena, so perhaps my perspective is slightly different and at least a bit more informed.

I am a black man, and I cringe just as much, if not moreso, when I encounter someone of my own ethnicity falling short of the mark in giving subpar customer service than with any other race (sadly, I witness this "falling short" event far too often...). Why is that? It's because I firmly believe that my race is often held to a higher standard of expectations, generally speaking, by those of other races. It goes all the way up the chain throughout socioeconomic status and professional rankings. I read online posts, watch body language, listen to comments made by people around me (whom I know and whom I simply observe), and it seems there is a different standard when the person(s) is black. As I said, even I do it, so I am not immune, but it's because I want to see others who look like me do better and strive for more. At the end of the day, I don't really care what color the person's skin is. The standard should be the same for all.

There are surely some who have been misplaced into positions with regular public interaction. It doesn't begin and end at the airport. It's everywhere. All I can hope for is that people generally feel more thankful for the fact they have a job in the current economic environment and that they put their individual and collective pride on display more regularly so it can be seen, felt, and heard. I might be living in a fantasy world, but I for one am grateful for and love my job and try to show it often. I wish more people could feel that way and be more positive.


Very well said. I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate your insight...

[Fiorenza]

Yes, that was a good post, and pretty much my bottom line as well.

[ATLonthebrain]

Thanks for the multiple "thumbs up" sent my way about that last post. I am definitely more of a lurker than a poster, as evidenced by my mere 222 posts in over 7-years of being a member, but sometimes I stumble upon a discussion where I think it's worthwhile to throw my two cents into the pot. This was one of those times.

I just read that the renovations on Conc C - North are almost complete. It's the redesign that will result in all DL Conn aircraft being parked in a more uniform manner and all with covered loading to/from building and aircraft. Anyone witness this project and have an opinion on how it looks and functions?

[cybele]

From Maria Saporta

State needs to stop plotting takeovers of MARTA and Hartsfield-Jackson airport (http://saportareport.com/blog/?cat=5)

Enough already.

State legislators need to stop trying to take control of MARTA or Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport.

Some legislators just don’t get it. They keep orchestrating plots or plans or bills for the state to take over our largest public transit system and the world’s busiest airport.

These are the same state leaders who have done virtually nothing to support either.

MARTA is the largest transit system in the United States that does not receive financial support from the state.

But are thse state legislators trying to fix that problem? Of course not. All they keep trying to do is find more ways to meddle in the agency’s business.

The ringleader in state control of both MARTA and the airport is Rep. Earl Ehrhart (R-Powder Springs), who for some reason has made it his mission in life to destroy the notion of local control when it comes to the urban areas of Atlanta.

Among his partners in these hostile takeover attempts have been State Rep. Bob Smith (R-Watkinsville) ,who is the sponsor of House Bill 644 to take over the airport; and State Rep. Jill Chambers (R-Atlanta), who uses her position as chair of the MARTOC oversight committee as a platform to be a thorn in the agency’s side. In fact, she regularly calls for more state influence over MARTA.

Consider this.

The state of Georgia already has four state officials on its 18-member board: the commissioner of the Georgia Department of Transportation, the executive director of the Georgia Regional Transportation Association, the Georgia Building Authority and the Revenue Commissioner.

All these state officials have a vote on the MARTA board even though they don’t pay to play.

And MARTOC, the House oversight committee, also oversteps its bounds. It keeps demanding all sorts of records, studies and data from MARTA officials. Chairman Chambers sometimes acts as though she is MARTA’s boss, repeatedly making unfounded accusations against the agency, criticizing its operations and calling its leaders on the carpet.

Again, is Chambers offering the state’s assistance to help in MARTA’s financially-strapped operations? Quite the contrary.

So why does MARTOC even exist?

From what transportation officials can tell, no other transit authority in the country has to answer to a state legislative oversight body unless it’s a state authority.

The only way the state should have any say or oversight of MARTA is if it’s a significant financial contributor. Otherwise, it should stay out of MARTA’s business.

Now I’m not saying that there should be no oversight of MARTA. Quite the contrary. It is one of the most important assets in metro Atlanta, and everything should be done to make sure it is operating efficiently and effectively.

But that oversight belongs to the people in the three governmental jurisdictions that support it: Fulton County, DeKalb County and the city of Atlanta. For nearly 40 years, people living and working in those jurisdictions have been paying a penny sales tax to build and support the system.

Those are the only governments with moral perogative to make sure MARTA is as good as it can be.

So how depressing is it that MARTA has to go begging to the state for the flexibility to be able to spend the money it raises where it’s most needed.

All MARTA has been asking the state is to remove an archaic rule that mandates that the agency split its sales tax — 50 percent for capital improvements and 50 percent for operations. Since MARTA is not expanding, it would like to spend more on its operations.

No other transit system in the country has to live within similar constraints, even where state governments contribute a substantial amount of annual operating support.

In a rational world, the only justifiable move would be for the state to totally divorce itself from any say-so over MARTA’s operations.

Or the state could finally become a true partner with MARTA by providing a substantial financial assistance in the annual operations of our major public transit system. Then, and only then, should the state play any role in the governance and oversight of MARTA.

The argument for the state to take control over Hartsfield-Jackson makes even less sense, if that’s possible.

After all, what role did the state play in the building, financing and development of the airport? None.

It has been the city of Atlanta, under the leadership of multiple mayors including Williams Hartsfield and Maynard Jackson, that had the leadership, took the risks and made the financial investment to create the world’s busiest airport.

And who has benefited by the city of Atlanta’s foresight, commitment and dedication to air travel? The state of Georgia.

Economic development officials will be quick to tell you that, more often than not, the top reason companies move or expand in Georgia is Hartsfield-Jackson. So the ripples of the city of Atlanta’s investment in the airport have been felt throughout the state.

But instead of thanking the city for building and managing the airport, state legislators have repeatedly sought an unfriendly takeover of Hartsfield-Jackson.

It makes no sense. It’s not as if the state has proven to be such a great manager of its entities. Think the Georgia Department of Transportation, widely viewed as a bloated agency that has been unable to deliver projects within budget or within any kind of reasonable timetable.

It’s not just MARTA and the airport. Unfortunately, one could make a similar case about the state’s limited financial role in a host of metro institutions, such as Grady Hospital — a centerpiece of the state’s public health system.

There’s a common theme. In life, there are givers and there are takers.

The state of Georgia is a taker. Under its current leadership, it’s clear that key Georgia leaders just care about power and control rather than doing what’s right for our region and our state.

Until the state begins treating the Atlanta region with economic fairness and until the state becomes a real partner in our future vitality, it should leave us alone.

Enough already.

[STrek777]

From Maria Saporta

State needs to stop plotting takeovers of MARTA and Hartsfield-Jackson airport (http://saportareport.com/blog/?cat=5)

Fantastic article... great read! :tup:

[Fiorenza]

Maria Saporta, always the apologist and mouthpiece for the Establishment.

The 50-50 operations-capital improvements split was what allowed Marta to obtain bonding capacity to build the system in the first place. Those bonds still have to be paid off, including the recently proposed issue. If I were an investor in those bonds, I wouldn't feel too comforted by less funds being allocated to maintain the condition of my collateral. Regarding Jill Chambers, I have spoken to her a couple of times about Marta, and what she is doing is not at all destructive. She is pointing out areas of simple mismanagement which can easily be fixed. The Martoc board was part of the original deal that allowed Marta to come into existence, and in reality (other than hiring and firing the executives) it just works as an advisory committee. Such boards in both the public and private sector should take a more, not less active role. Keep in mind that the citizens of Fulton and Dekalb also participate in electing the state government even if they don't currently politically agree with it most of the time.

Regarding the airport, the landing fees paid for the financing of it, not the city of Atlanta. The city has recently made one major management screwup and any number of minor management screwups. There have been no apologies forthcoming. As far as I'm concerned, the airport is overdue for state takeover, and change the name back to simply "Atlanta Airport" rather than "Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport".

[Atlwest281]

Maria Sapporta actually makes sense compared to some of the idiots in that state house. Hartsfield has the lowest landing fees of any major airport in the world thats the one of the reasons for the success of it. Thats one of the reasons why no other hub in world can replicate what has been done here. Even the mighty DXB with the deep pockets cant replicate it. All indications point to Delta and to a lesser extent Airtran will be satisfied with what they and the airport come up with in terms of the Landing fees and the international terminal.
It isn't time for the airport to go to state hands. Its time for the state to fix the education system, transit, entice more business etc. The airport is fine as any facility handling 90 million people can be. Its safe, and fulfills its function getting people from point a to point b efficiently. There is nothing the state can do for it that cant already be done with the current stewards.

[cybele]

What conceivable claim could the state of Georgia possibly have to MARTA or the Atlanta airport? They didn't think them up or develop them. They have never funded or invested in them. They've never operated them, maintained them, or policed them. They've never scrimped and saved to pay the bills or battled off the competition. Or are we now in some Hugo Chavez-like socialist system where the government simply declares, "We are seizing all your property and declaring it assets of the state"?

Unless I'm mistaken, the U.S. Constitution provides there shall be no taking by the government for public use without full and adequate compensation. In addition, the Constitution of the state of Georgia -- and I assume the state agrees that it is bound by that – specifically says in Article I, Section III, Paragraph I that: "Property shall not be taken or damaged for public purposes without just and adequate compensation being first paid."

Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion. (By the way, the notion that the city of Atlanta doesn’t own the airport because it collects landing fees from the airlines is ridiculous – that’s like saying Arthur Blank doesn’t really own the Falcons because he collects revenue from the fans and the TV networks).

For MARTA, the eighth largest transit system in the United States, with 50 miles of urban heavy rail, 38 stations, and about 600 buses, I’d say you’re looking at another $50 billion at least.

If the state wants to pay fair value for these assets, I might just say let them have them have it, and we’ll take our money and do something even better. But for the state of Georgia to imagine it can just “take” these assets, I don’t think so. Last I heard Castro and Ahmadinejad haven’t taken over the state of Georgia just yet.

[megalopolis]

Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion.

That's funny, Andrea. Among the world's companies, only Exxon Mobil is worth more than $350 billion, and that's what you would peg as the value of the Atlanta airport?

[OCA REP]

As far as I'm concerned, the airport is overdue for state takeover, and change the name back to simply "Atlanta Airport" rather than "Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport".

I don't know about the state takeover, but the second part of your statement is right on!

[cybele]

Virginia should take over "Washington Dulles International Airport" and "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport" and rename them Suburban Virginia Airport and Arlington Airport. And give me Queens Airports A and B rather than "John F. Kennedy International Airport" and Laguardia. This naming thing has been out of control for ages.

[megalopolis]

Virginia should take over "Washington Dulles International Airport" and "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport" and rename them Suburban Virginia Airport and Arlington Airport. And give me Queens Airports A and B rather than "John F. Kennedy International Airport" and Laguardia. This naming thing has been out of control for ages.

Right, just don't quit your day job at the law firm because clearly you don't have a future in the airport appraisal or naming businesses.

[STrek777]

What conceivable claim could the state of Georgia possibly have to MARTA or the Atlanta airport? They didn't think them up or develop them. They have never funded or invested in them. They've never operated them, maintained them, or policed them. They've never scrimped and saved to pay the bills or battled off the competition. Or are we now in some Hugo Chavez-like socialist system where the government simply declares, "We are seizing all your property and declaring it assets of the state"?

Unless I'm mistaken, the U.S. Constitution provides there shall be no taking by the government for public use without full and adequate compensation. In addition, the Constitution of the state of Georgia -- and I assume the state agrees that it is bound by that – specifically says in Article I, Section III, Paragraph I that: "Property shall not be taken or damaged for public purposes without just and adequate compensation being first paid."

Now, off the top of my head, I’d peg the value of the world’s busiest airport at approximately $350 billion. (By the way, the notion that the city of Atlanta doesn’t own the airport because it collects landing fees from the airlines is ridiculous – that’s like saying Arthur Blank doesn’t really own the Falcons because he collects revenue from the fans and the TV networks).

For MARTA, the eighth largest transit system in the United States, with 50 miles of urban heavy rail, 38 stations, and about 600 buses, I’d say you’re looking at another $50 billion at least.

If the state wants to pay fair value for these assets, I might just say let them have them have it, and we’ll take our money and do something even better. But for the state of Georgia to imagine it can just “take” these assets, I don’t think so. Last I heard Castro and Ahmadinejad haven’t taken over the state of Georgia just yet.

aaaahhhh Now that's the spirit! :banana: I couldn't have written it better myself. :D

[smArTaLlone]

Delta Air Lines Inc. will debut in Atlanta a Boeing 747-400 jet in Delta colors April 2.

The first flight of a Boeing 747 jumbo jet in Delta livery since 1977 will depart for Honolulu at 10:15 a.m. April 2.

Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) has also said starting May 4 it will use Boeing 747-400 aircraft for some flights between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

Delta obtained 16 Boeing 747-400s in last October’s acquisition of Northwest Airlines Corp, according to a regulatory filing.

[trainiac]

aaaahhhh Now that's the spirit! :banana: I couldn't have written it better myself. :D

Totally agree. I never saw any possible legal argument that allowed the state to get involved in the Atlanta Airport.

The next two days will tell just how dysfunctional our state legislature is. I grew up in Texas in the 70s & 80s and as Molly Ivins could have told you that was probably even worse than the Georgia Leg, but wow. I pray that the fine business people of Georgia will spearhead kicking these fundamentalist idiots out of office.

[trainiac]

Delta Air Lines Inc. will debut in Atlanta a Boeing 747-400 jet in Delta colors April 2.

The first flight of a Boeing 747 jumbo jet in Delta livery since 1977 will depart for Honolulu at 10:15 a.m. April 2.

Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) has also said starting May 4 it will use Boeing 747-400 aircraft for some flights between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

Delta obtained 16 Boeing 747-400s in last October’s acquisition of Northwest Airlines Corp, according to a regulatory filing.

This rocks!! My mean wife only lets us go to Hawaii every 5 years and it's coming up next winter. Yippee!

[Fiorenza]

I never saw any possible legal argument that allowed the state to get involved in the Atlanta Airport.

I'm not familiar with the legal arguments, but my mother in law just waited 1.5 hours to get her re-checked at customs baggage from final baggage claim, and the belt wasn't ID'd with her flight. She spent over 2.5 hours in total trying to get out of the airport. Yes, I blame the final 1.5 hours on the mismanagement of the Atlanta-run part of the operation. Do I think the state could do better? You bet I do.

[Atlwest281]

The issue of the recheck is a sore thumb but will be remedied when the international terminal is built. It has to do with the layout of ATL not the mis management or lack there of of Atl. Im sorry she had to wait so long it is a drag especially on an international flight,l but its no different then waiting to clear heathrow or JFK customs at peak times of the day. The state would be no able to make this problem go away any faster then what is trying to be done. Unless the state can build a massive international terminal fully complete and ready to open by year end, and they cant. The agents who work the customs and immigrations are not Hartsfield employees they are federal employees and such Hartsfield has limited control over them.

[Fiorenza]

You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.

[Atlwest281]

Delta's HQ is not moving to NYC they are focusing on Baseball marketing and on NY sports team, Why? Because its the largest city/metro in the nation it makes sense. The one who has a good share of NYC will have profitability. The failure of th first design had nothing to do with a minority firm being part of the design process. The terminal will be built and the fee issue will be resolved.
As i have said before what delta has created at Hartsfield cant be replicated anywhere even at the new Detroit hub recently acquired and it certainly cant be replicated in Mem or NYC. EWR is bursting at the seems and dominated by Continental, LGA cant do flights over 1300 miles and is cramped and JFK is filled to near capacity and the space isn't there. Will they enhance the other hubs, of course but nothing to the scope of what they have here.

[cybele]

You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced.

I must say that is one of the most interesting explanations for a customs delay I've heard. It's a good thing Obama hasn't gotten a dog yet because he'd be tied up trying to teach it not to run out the West Gate of the White House and that would have slowed things down even more.

Sorry your MIL got stuck. But can you imagine what it would be like if the state of Georgia had been trying to run this show? Business Leaders Losing Patience with State Legislature Over Transportation (http://www.georgiaonlinenews.com/templates/gonso_greensheet.cfm?editionid=90&storyid=330&id=0). Can't imagine why -- it's only been about 10 years.

[atl2phx]

You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.

taze yourself. none of your sensationally contrived, "read it first" predictions have yet to come true. regardless of topic, you look for any hand that holds the race card and you play it with gusto.

i thought you would have been overcome with disgust already and fled back to eastern europe. on with it.

[Fiorenza]

The failure of th first design had nothing to do with a minority firm being part of the design process.

The failure of the first design had to do with a minority firm not being part of the design process.

[Fiorenza]

atl2phx,

One of these days I'll escape from this decomposting country...hopefully before a iron curtain is put in effect on out-migration, and hopefully before I become a crime statistic.

Unfortunately, I have to hang in here for a bit longer in order to make a living.

[Atlwest281]

Regardless where you move on earth there will always be problems, distasteful people and ridiculous policies. So unless you are planning to move to a deserted island in the Indian ocean(I know random :) ), you have to make do and try and make your situation better.

The failure of the design had more to do with that the design, at the time they came up with was going to cost to much to implement, and also the design firm wanted a lot more money for designing it then what had been discussed,. Hindsight they should have built it because it would have been maybe 200million less.

Until the state can work out the transportation issues for Atlanta and the rest of the state, they should not even attempt to raise there hand for ownership of the airport, because we all know what a fantastics job they have done with transit.

[atlantaguy]

You know, if Atlanta hadn't screwed up the international terminal design process because they wanted a minority design firm involved, the thing would be built already and international travelers wouldn't be so badly inconvenienced. As it is, the price has more than doubled. My source tells me that's why Delta is REALLY steamed at Atlanta, because they (Delta) will end up paying the extra cost when and if it's finally built. By the way, Delta HQ is headed to NY. The sports marketing sponsorships are just the leading edge. You read it here first.

Nothing but pure BS - none of this crap is true.:whip:

You read it here first, folks.

[atlantaguy]

This has been quite an interesting discussion. I'm glad someone decided to bring up their personal feelings about ATL's shortcomings to initiate a spirited round of posts. One question I have about the employees on Concourse E is whether they are paid or volunteers? I know for a fact that the Airport has a fairly extensive Airport Customer Service Program, but believe those employees are volunteers. And, if they are paid, you can bet they are not highly paid positions. As for the DL Conn and AirTran employees on Conc C, I have encountered both rude/nonchalant attitudes as well as pleasant/cheerful ones. And, yes, most of those faces were black, and largely female. Also, I recall during the Olympics there were dozens of volunteers staffed at periods throughout the day to assist those arriving into ATL internationally via Conc E. And, there are far more passengers utilizing that facility today than in Summer '96. I think those bodies are out there on Conc E for a reason, and it could very well be in collaboration WITH Delta and other carriers operating internationally @ ATL.

I fly through DEN quite regularly and it's a flip of the coin as to how the UA gate agents are going to "handle" me if and when I have a question. It just so happens that most of these agents are white or hispanic. Does the color of their skin dictate the attitude and helpfulness I can expect? I don't think so, personally. As for why the vast majority of these agents of note in ATL are predominantly black, I say look at the population within a 10-mile radius of the airport. The majority of those residents are black, and I suspect it is because they live in relative close proximity to the Airport that they seek jobs there. Also, if they don't have transportation, they can take MARTA to get to work @ ATL rather easily and cheaply.

I firmly believe in great customer service, and I think that the Airport itself (City of Atlanta, Department of Aviation) has been striving to deliver on a more consistent basis. I've noticed changes in my airport experience @ ATL over the last couple of years in comparison to previous instances. These changes are largely for the better. Of course there's room for improvement, but seems the Airport is largely on the right track. We can post here and gripe about what's wrong and needs fixing, but I suspect most of us have no idea whatsoever of what it takes to run the World's Busiest Airport, or any airport for that matter. I have extensive experience in this arena, so perhaps my perspective is slightly different and at least a bit more informed.

I am a black man, and I cringe just as much, if not moreso, when I encounter someone of my own ethnicity falling short of the mark in giving subpar customer service than with any other race (sadly, I witness this "falling short" event far too often...). Why is that? It's because I firmly believe that my race is often held to a higher standard of expectations, generally speaking, by those of other races. It goes all the way up the chain throughout socioeconomic status and professional rankings. I read online posts, watch body language, listen to comments made by people around me (whom I know and whom I simply observe), and it seems there is a different standard when the person(s) is black. As I said, even I do it, so I am not immune, but it's because I want to see others who look like me do better and strive for more. At the end of the day, I don't really care what color the person's skin is. The standard should be the same for all.

There are surely some who have been misplaced into positions with regular public interaction. It doesn't begin and end at the airport. It's everywhere. All I can hope for is that people generally feel more thankful for the fact they have a job in the current economic environment and that they put their individual and collective pride on display more regularly so it can be seen, felt, and heard. I might be living in a fantasy world, but I for one am grateful for and love my job and try to show it often. I wish more people could feel that way and be more positive.

Fabulous post, Bryant!

Hope all is well with you. Boise, eh?