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  #1  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2025, 7:18 AM
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Skylines and skyscrapers on Wikipedia

I've had a Wikipedia account for a while, but it was a few months ago that I decided to improve its coverage of skyscrapers and skylines, especially in "list of tallest building" pages, over the long-term. Knowing that each of the skyscraper databases (like CTBUH and SSP) have holes in their data, I thought it would be a good idea to make Wikipedia a good source of tall building data going forward by gathering all reliable data that can be found there, now that Emporis is gone. Especially since searching for a full list on CTBUH is paywalled past 25 entries. Editing missing or wrong info is also much easier on Wikipedia compared to SSP or CTBUH.

Since June I've updated a few tallest building pages to have a more detailed lead, a history section, a map, and a graph showing the growth of tall buildings over time. One of the first cities I did this for were the big five Canadian cities:I also did the same for some big European skylines (Frankfurt, Warsaw, Rotterdam, and Milan) as well as New York City and Chicago, among others. Basically my goal is to get more people to appreciate, or at least be aware of, interesting things about a city's skyline and its growth. I'm particularly happy about the history section I wrote for Toronto and Chicago, so give those a read if you're interested!

This is an ongoing project so I'd like to post about any new pages I'll be working on here. Of course if you find anything missing or incorrect, please let me know. Currently I'm working on the main US skylines, and I've added a cleaned up the intro, and added coordinates, and a map and chart to Boston, LA, Miami, Philly, and SF, though they don't have a detailed history section yet. Next up is Houston or Dallas, whose pages are pretty outdated. The maps replicate the skyscraper map function on SSP except they are numbered by height and colored by completion date (I'm hoping this feature will catch on lol)

And if you want to help out, that would be appreciated too! Sometimes it seems like I'm the only editor working on these pages at all, but I'm sure there's a lot of people with interests in urbanism or skyscrapers in general, but just don't edit Wikipedia.

Last edited by LivinAWestLife; Aug 26, 2025 at 7:51 AM.
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Old Posted Aug 26, 2025, 1:14 PM
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Great stuff!
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Old Posted Aug 26, 2025, 2:46 PM
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Amazing! I absolutely love Wikipedia since always and you did a superb job! Thank you very much.
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Old Posted Aug 26, 2025, 9:04 PM
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Great stuff!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
Amazing! I absolutely love Wikipedia since always and you did a superb job! Thank you very much.
Thanks guys! I'll keep the thread posted if I add anything new.
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Old Posted Aug 26, 2025, 10:53 PM
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That is, quite possibly, the nerdiest collection of Wikipedia links I've ever seen.
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Old Posted Aug 28, 2025, 4:20 PM
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I thought I would work on a smaller skyline for a change, so I updated the page for Sacramento, California's capital. It was a lot more interesting than I thought!



Sacramento's an important city with a noticeably smaller skyline than most other 2-3 million metro areas. Its the largest skyline in the Central Valley, which isn't saying much as all the other cities (Fresno, Modesto) have non-existent skylines and embody the flat, sprawly urban landscape of many Californian cities.

I was surprised to learn that Sacramento skipped the 60s-70s towers that happened in other US cities. Its tallest towers were built in the late 1980s-early 1990s, so its skyline looks very postmodernist in comparison to other cities. Also unlike other American cities, Sacramento kept building office towers during the 1990s. They weren't all postmodernist though; the Park Tower, the 4th tallest building, is noticeably inspired by Art Deco.

Last edited by LivinAWestLife; Aug 28, 2025 at 4:35 PM.
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Old Posted Aug 28, 2025, 4:31 PM
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More than any other city I've investigated, a lot of Sacramento's buildings are for government purposes or offices for government agencies. Which makes sense. Two of their most recent skyscrapers, the Sacramento Courthouse Building (2023) and the Natural Resources Tower (2021) fit into this. The latter holds offices for the California Natural Resources Agency.

The 2000s was also quite productive, and towards the Great Recession the city built its second and third tallest buildings, both banking towers: US Bank Tower and Bank of the West Tower. Unlike many cities the 2010s was less active than the 2000s, with a lot less residential towers than I anticipated. The main one is a hotel in the Downtown Commons development, which also gave the Sacramento Kings a new stadium.



Sacramento's skyline history actually begins quite early in the 1920s, with the The Citizen Hotel and Elks Tower being the first high-rises, completed within a year of each other. After this there was a skyscraper drought that lasted almost half a century!

All of the tallest buildings are located downtown, like most smaller American cities, creating a compact skyline. The CalSTRS building (California State Teachers' Retirement System) is the only high-rise west of the river, and is technically in West Sacramento. Here's the map:



Seems like Sac is a city where people have often anticipated a true high-rise boom. In fact, before the Great Recession, there was "Towers on Capitol Mall", a proposal for two 600-foot skyscrapers! They still get 20+ floor proposals quite frequently. Hardly any of them go anywhere though.

Besides skyscrapers, the California Capitol Building and the yellow Tower Bridge are the city's most famous landmarks on the skyline.

Last edited by LivinAWestLife; Aug 29, 2025 at 1:24 AM. Reason: typo
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Old Posted Aug 28, 2025, 5:20 PM
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such high quality synopses of skyscrapers.
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  #9  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2025, 11:14 PM
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This is the one of the best projects I’ve seen.

May I suggest letting the community know what city you plan on conquering next? Maybe we could crowdsource some of the historical details to take a load off your back and help you build!

When you get to Austin, the history of the Capital View Corridors starting with City Councilman Lloyd Doggett (and his additional later work as State Representative on this issue) are a defining feature of the skyline Austin.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LivinAWestLife View Post
What a gorgeous building!
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hmmm....
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Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 12:48 AM
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What a beautiful building!
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hmmm....
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 1:01 AM
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^ I like it except for that curved part near the top. To me that gives cheap POMO faux-historic knock-off energy. Make that setback straight lines like the rest and I'm happy.
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Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 2:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
This is the one of the best projects I’ve seen.

May I suggest letting the community know what city you plan on conquering next? Maybe we could crowdsource some of the historical details to take a load off your back and help you build!

When you get to Austin, the history of the Capital View Corridors starting with City Councilman Lloyd Doggett (and his additional later work as State Representative on this issue) are a defining feature of the skyline Austin.
Thank you, Austin is a future one I'm going to work on soon. Yeah that sounds like a good idea - I've come to realize the history section is the most time-consuming part (it took me days to finish the ones for Chicago and Toronto), as I have to spend a lot of time finding sources about tall buildings in local news. I'm sure there's plenty of historical articles of what were then new skyscrapers, but were never digitized and published online so they can't be easily found.

It would also be cool if others (maybe yourself as well?) could help out with the editing! The history sections are just text that don't require much knowledge on Wikipedia's editor. I'm not American so I will always lack that local information that others can provide.

Of course, for Austin the view corridors about the Texas state Capitol building are important (though finding sources about that shouldn't be too hard).

Next one I'm doing (which might be until September - life is busy) is probably Dallas, Austin, or Atlanta. I'd do Seattle but that page seems like it has a protective editor lol
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Old Posted Aug 29, 2025, 3:14 PM
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^ I like it except for that curved part near the top. To me that gives cheap POMO faux-historic knock-off energy. Make that setback straight lines like the rest and I'm happy.
2nd that.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 2:10 PM
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Next city I'll be working on is Dallas, the core city of the DFW region, the fourth (soon to be third) largest urban area in the United States. Dallas notably has quite an undersized skyline, partly due to its height limit, which has obscured some of its growth.

I'll update the thread with progress as I go on Like the other recent US cities, I may not fill out a history section for now.
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 10:48 PM
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2nd that.
3rd.

I think an additional refinement would have been to clad that setback and the base to match the crown.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LivinAWestLife View Post
Next city I'll be working on is Dallas, the core city of the DFW region, the fourth (soon to be third) largest urban area in the United States. Dallas notably has quite an undersized skyline, partly due to its height limit, which has obscured some of its growth.

I'll update the thread with progress as I go on Like the other recent US cities, I may not fill out a history section for now.
Can’t wait to see this one!

On Dallas:

https://getbuilt.com/dallas-iconic-skyline-a-journey-through-time/

On historical factors that have affected the character of Dallas’s development (yes, from ChatGPT):

1. Munger Place Deed Restrictions (1905–1910)

Policy Recap:
• Required homes to be two-story, masonry, costly (min. $10,000), with large setbacks, no alley-facing facades, and hidden utilities.
• Enforced strict architectural cohesion and social exclusivity.

Skyline Impact:
• Set a cultural precedent in Dallas for controlled aesthetics and developer-led design uniformity, which influenced future elite enclaves (e.g. Highland Park, Swiss Avenue, and even modern-day Turtle Creek and Preston Hollow mid-rise zoning battles).
• Encouraged decentralized prestige: This helped cement a pattern of decentralized prestige zones, meaning the city’s wealth did not uniformly concentrate in the downtown core, but rather radiated outward in architecturally regulated, low-rise neighborhoods. The implication was that:
• Downtown became more commercial and less residential than in cities like San Francisco or Chicago.
• High-rises had to compete with low-density prestige elsewhere, shaping how and where tall buildings were incentivized.

Net Result:

Dallas’s skyline emerged as more purely commercial and civic, without strong high-rise residential towers until the post-1980s boom — a delay partially attributable to early suburban prestige zoning culture.



2. Historic District / Conservation Overlay Tools

(Swiss Avenue Historic District, Wilson Block, King’s Highway)

Policy Recap:
• Swiss Avenue (1973–74) was the first residential historic district in Dallas.
• Wilson Block (1981) and Harwood Street (1990) protected older Victorian and early 20th-century architecture.
• Conservation districts limited teardown, height, architectural incompatibility.

Skyline Impact:
• Prevented verticalization in historically significant inner-core zones:
• Swiss Avenue and parts of East Dallas retained low-rise character; no tall buildings were allowed despite proximity to downtown.
• Wilson Block & Harwood preserved a low-rise perimeter around the Central Business District, introducing hard vertical edges to the skyline.
• Encouraged skyline “voids”: These policies froze certain districts in time, preventing continuity of tall buildings into adjacent neighborhoods, especially east and southeast of downtown.
• Catalyzed the “sawtooth skyline”: With some blocks protected and others not, developers leapfrogged into areas like Victory Park, Uptown, and the Cedars — creating pockets of verticality separated by sudden drops in scale.

Net Result:

Dallas developed a fragmented, punctuated skyline rather than a continuous rise-and-fall gradient. Tall buildings tend to appear in tight clusters, often surrounded by preserved or under-zoned historic neighborhoods.



3. Kessler Plan (1909–1911, rev. 1920s)

Policy Recap:
• Envisioned flood control (Trinity River), downtown boulevard system, and consolidation of railroads.
• Sought to beautify and rationalize Dallas’s growth.

Skyline Impact:
• Delayed urbanization west of downtown: The Trinity floodplain remained underdeveloped for most of the 20th century, causing the western side of the skyline to “stop short”.
• The Kessler Plan’s emphasis on infrastructure and separation of rail from civic space laid the foundation for:
• The “skyline-on-a-podium” effect: Big towers on isolated blocks surrounded by infrastructure, rather than tight, pedestrian-friendly grids.
• Dallas’s iconic towers (e.g. Fountain Place, Bank of America Plaza) rise almost as islands, disconnected from broader urban density — a condition rooted in the car-and-parkway prioritization in Kessler’s vision.
• Boulevard Planning: Proposed “Central Boulevard” would later influence freeway routing and reinforced the auto-dominant access pattern, pushing developers to orient high-rises toward car visibility rather than pedestrian scale.
• Rail yard consolidation zones became dead space — delaying densification near Union Station and encouraging growth northward (Uptown) instead.

Net Result:

The west side of downtown remained flat, even as the skyline grew east and north. Victory Park and Uptown were later infill responses to these voids, but the Kessler Plan’s legacy made the skyline more directional (tilted toward the north) and more vehicular in orientation.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #18  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 11:27 PM
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I asked Chat GPT for an opinion regarding the paucity of high rise apartments in mid 20th century southern cities-

did any southern city have significant high rise apartment living in the center of town prior to ww2
ChatGPT said:
Yes—though far less than in the Northeast or Midwest. Before World War II, most Southern cities had relatively low levels of high-rise apartment living. Cultural preferences (homeownership, single-family dwellings, aversion to dense urban life), weaker economies, and slower urbanization all played roles. But there were exceptions:

Atlanta – Had some early luxury apartment houses and mid-rise buildings in Midtown and near Peachtree Street (e.g., the Ponce de Leon Apartments, 1913; Briarcliff Hotel, 1924). True high-rise living was limited but present.

New Orleans – More of a rowhouse/shotgun house culture, but a handful of multi-story apartment buildings and hotels converted to apartments existed in the CBD and Garden District by the 1920s–30s.

Miami – With its 1920s boom, some early high-rise apartments and hotels functioned as seasonal residences downtown and in Miami Beach.

Dallas and Houston – Both had some prewar apartment hotels and mid/high-rises (Dallas’s Mayfair Apartments, 1926; Houston’s Warwick, 1927, more hotel-like). Still modest compared to Northern cities.

Tampa and Jacksonville – Saw a handful of early apartment buildings (Tampa’s Floridan Hotel had long-term residents, and Jacksonville had the Park Lane Apartments, 1926).

The one Southern city often cited as closest to a “Northern” model before WWII is Atlanta, which had a small but distinct high-rise apartment scene centered around Peachtree. Miami comes next because of its 1920s land boom.

Would you like me to compile a short list of the tallest or most notable pre-WWII apartment high-rises in Southern cities, with dates built?

You said:
I am familiar with all the cities mentioned, and to be fair none of these cities developed any truly urban high rise or mid rise neighborhoods that extended beyond a few blocks at most. They were also mostly devoid of the amenities one expects n a true apartment house neighorhood in terms of shopping, dining, etc.

ChatGPT said:

That’s exactly right. Southern cities prior to WWII almost uniformly lacked the kind of true apartment-house neighborhoods you’d find in New York’s Upper West Side, Chicago’s Gold Coast, or Boston’s Back Bay. What you got in the South were:

Scattered buildings rather than districts – An isolated luxury apartment or apartment-hotel, usually on or near the main commercial street (e.g., Peachtree in Atlanta, Main in Houston, St. Charles in New Orleans). But there was no contiguous residential density.

Hotel–apartment hybrids – Many so-called apartment houses functioned more like residential hotels, catering to the wealthy or transient professionals, rather than forming stable middle-class rental communities.

Lack of supporting urban fabric – Shops, restaurants, and services did exist downtown, but they weren’t interwoven with residential blocks the way they were in older Northern cities. Once you left the central business streets, you quickly hit single-family neighborhoods.

Cultural and economic factors – In the South, apartment living was often seen as a temporary or second-best option; the social prestige lay in single-family homes. The market for dense, multi-block apartment neighborhoods never matured before the war.

So while Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, and a few others had individual prewar apartment high-rises, no Southern city created a sustained, mixed-use, multi-block apartment district before WWII. The “apartment neighborhood” as an urban lifestyle was a Northern and Midwestern phenomenon.

Do you want me to trace why this difference persisted—why the South skipped that stage of dense apartment districts almost entirely?

ChatGPT can make mistakes. Check important info.
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  #19  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 11:35 PM
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ChatGPT can make mistakes. Check important info.
I would not have posted had it contained factual errors.

AI mostly sucks, and I hate how often [insert any platform here] is just plain… wrong… but is it wrong in this case? No.

As for the answer it provides to your questions: they are accurate answers to both given the words you chose. You might quibble around the edges of “significant,” but Chat’s first reply is highly contextualized to the South—which I think avoids the issue of how you interpret “significant” altogether.

The first bit even says: “yeah, but not compared to the north and Midwest.” That’s a polite way for Chat to say: “no, but if we want to compare the south internally, these cities are the ‘best’ it had to offer.”

Another way of saying what Chat did here is:

“• did southern cities have any urban areas? Yes.
• did southern cities compare to cities elsewhere? No.”

Both statements are true.
__________________
Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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Old Posted Sep 5, 2025, 11:54 PM
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Bad interpretation of the answer (by the user) given the input (by the user) [when AI is technically correct] seems to be as common a problem as AI being factually incorrect.

My series of queries was:

1. Some cities have policies that manifestly affect the development and character of their skyline.

New York City’s setback laws, DC’s height limit, Philadelphia’s gentleman’s agreement, Austin capitol view corridors, San Antonio’s Riverwalk overlay, etc.

Can you list for me policy factors that have affected the development and architectural character of Dallas’s downtown and ancillary skylines and high rises?

A. Sucked, so queried further.

2. I’m thinking less about current policy and more about historic policy, whether currently in force or not. And the list of things you use are broad policy tools that nearly ever major city uses. I’m thinking of two categories here:
• things unique or nearly-unique to Dallas
• things that, if ubiquitous, were first adopted by Dallas before spreading to other cities

A. Semi-relevant answer, but inapplicable directly to high rises. Queried further.

Relevant part:

Quote:
Dallas’s architectural and urban evolution wasn’t shaped merely by standard zoning; it was significantly influenced by:
• Early, localized deed restrictions in Munger Place that shaped residential aesthetics and urban form in a region where such tools were rare.
• Historic and conservation district adoptions that precedence-protected both residential and commercial districts, often ahead of broader national adoption.
• Civic plan frameworks like the Kessler Plan, which laid infrastructural and spatial foundations for decades to come.
3. How do those three things affect skyline defining features?

The answers it gave are par for the course for both the average urbanist and the average peer reviewed academic article in urban development. So I posted the final result. If this is a bad interpretation, or if the facts are wrong, feel free to let the forum know.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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