[Saint John, NB] Millidgeville Developments

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Keeping with the trend of localized threads for different regions of the CMA as MonctonRad has done so well for Moncton, I think it's a good idea to continue to follow this trend for Saint John, as the "official" Saint John Project Thread is quite daunting to read from page 1 to page 802, to say the least.

Lots of people are probably more interested in learning about development news more specific to their own neighbourhoods.

So here's one for Millidgeville developments.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

Another long council session this evening.

421 Woodward Avenue rejected 5-4

Note that the deputy mayor was absent as he is travelling, leaving nine councillors, so the mayor did not get involved (she was openly in favour). The primary objection was the height of the development at six stories; several councillors wanted it to be only four. There was audible silence in the chambers after that vote, I don't think many were expecting it.

Tomorrow they have another marathon Lorneville rezoning session to enjoy, any bets on if they will finally get past the opposing voices, or will we have a fourth meeting to come?

Disappointing to see that proposal development shot down over a measly two storeys.



It wasn't the most inspiring proposal, but there was also nothing fundamentally wrong with it either. It looked nice enough, and many of the apartments would have had some very nice views of the Kennebecasis River Valley. It's not surprising that the council shut it down for mainly NIMBY reasons, but it's still dissapointing to see.

As I said in more detail in the main Saint John thread, I think there's a distinct opportunity for new condos and apartments in Millidgeville to convince some KV retirees to sell their nest eggs and move back into the city limits of Saint John, and move into a condo with a nice riverview, without ever having to actually move away from the Kennebecasis Valley.

[darkharbour]

I'm legitimately surprised that proposal was voted down. It is uninspired but more than acceptable in the context of the neighbourhood and these kinds of height arguments are so silly when two floors will barely make any difference to the site visually whatsoever.

[bingun]

Yes, I was surprised too. The developer had flown in from British Columbia for the meeting, agreed to build a path/trail on the site, chosen a design with minimal rock removal, and had attempted to discuss the development with its neighbours. I wonder if the deputy mayor would have voted in favour if he were present. To me, it felt somewhat like a political decision, but perhaps that's just my perspective.

The presentation from the city included this slide, which I think was very relevant and showed the surrounding existing and future developments. To me, this demonstrates that the area is intensifying, and the idea of putting this in the middle of single-family homes is nonsense.



Given that the developer already owns the site, I suppose they will revisit it in the future with a modified design. From what was said last night, going 'wider' but shorter was discussed, but this would involve more rock removal, which is what half the residents complained about.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by bingun

Yes, I was surprised too. The developer had flown in from British Columbia for the meeting, agreed to build a path/trail on the site, chosen a design with minimal rock removal, and had attempted to discuss the development with its neighbours. I wonder if the deputy mayor would have voted in favour if he were present. To me, it felt somewhat like a political decision, but perhaps that's just my perspective.

The presentation from the city included this slide, which I think was very relevant and showed the surrounding existing and future developments. To me, this demonstrates that the area is intensifying, and the idea of putting this in the middle of single-family homes is nonsense.



Given that the developer already owns the site, I suppose they will revisit it in the future with a modified design. From what was said last night, going 'wider' but shorter was discussed, but this would involve more rock removal, which is what half the residents complained about.

That is classic, neighbours ask for concessions that they think make things better or ease their fears but end up being more impactful or damaging in the end.

[sailor734]

I understand a lot of the arguments people have against proposals like this (traffic, noise, change of character of the area etc) but I really don’t get the height one. Are they worried about shade? Maybe they are all big tomato growers ������

[sailor734]

Work continuing on the new MacDonald's at the corner of Millidge Ave and University. One side of University closed today as they excavate for what I assume are water and sewer. Traffic really snarled.

I think Wendy's, Timmies, Jean Coutu and Macd's having single entrances/exits directly across from each other and within 75-100 feet from Millidge Ave will create a real probability of collisions. That's not even counting Tims drivethrough being lined up onto the road in both directions in the AM.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Work continuing on the new MacDonald's at the corner of Millidge Ave and University. One side of University closed today as they excavate for what I assume are water and sewer. Traffic really snarled.

I think Wendy's, Timmies, Jean Coutu and Macd's having single entrances/exits directly across from each other and within 75-100 feet from Millidge Ave will create a real probability of collisions. That's not even counting Tims drivethrough being lined up onto the road in both directions in the AM.

Yeah that intersection has the potential to get really nasty with a Tim Hortons and a McDonald's awkwardly spaced out from the traffic light.

The Tim Horton's entrance should also come from Vitality way and have the exit being from the current in/out spot. I wonder if there is potential to put in a meridian between Jean Coutu and Tims/Wendy's so it helps traffic.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

Yeah that intersection has the potential to get really nasty with a Tim Hortons and a McDonald's awkwardly spaced out from the traffic light.

The Tim Horton's entrance should also come from Vitality way and have the exit being from the current in/out spot. I wonder if there is potential to put in a meridian between Jean Coutu and Tims/Wendy's so it helps traffic.

The problem will be trying to make a left out of Jean Coutu or MacD's to get back to Millidge Ave. Traffic turning left from Millidge onto University appears at quite a speed as they have a curved turn that passes inside a traffic island with a yield sign. They can come from out of sight to being at the Jean Coutu exit in just a few seconds. Having cars lined up in the middle of University trying to turn left into Tims/Wendy's just adds to the confusion.

The situation isn't great at times now. Adding the MacD's traffic will make it much worse.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Good to see more invested in UNBSJ. Is this for the Integrated Health Initiative?

[sailor734]

I see they have torn down 1/2 of the strip mall across the parking lot from the former Tipsy Tomato location (the side that was closest to the car wash they tore down earlier).

Second apartment building about to start?

I see they have added "Phase 2 Coming Fall 2027" to the "Book your tour today" sign on Building 1. Looks like the plan is to take some time off and not start the second building next spring.

[bingun]

.

[ivegotaname]

Was told a couple of high rises were going up cambridge estates on the hill and as tall as Brentwood tower. Is that true? I live on boars head road across from air canada call centre i

[ivegotaname]

Another spot on boarshead road where the Blue Bins recyclables used to be there was suppose to be apartments and town homes . What happened to that development

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ivegotaname

Was told a couple of high rises were going up cambridge estates on the hill and as tall as Brentwood tower. Is that true? I live on boars head road across from air canada call centre i

Who told you that? It would sure be a good thing if it was accurate.

I really think Millidgeville and the rest of Saint John's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley have some of the best potential for success in developing high rise condos and more upscale high rise apartment buildings.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Who told you that? It would sure be a good thing if it was accurate.

I really think Millidgeville and the rest of Saint John's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley have some of the best potential for success in developing high rise condos and more upscale high rise apartment buildings.

It's probably a heresy story about this development plan, which does mention high rise in Phase 2:



[credit from original post by cdnguys: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10465218&postcount=16465]

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

It's probably a heresy story about this development plan, which does mention high rise in Phase 2:



[credit from original post by cdnguys: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10465218&postcount=16465]

thanks.

These don't exactly look like proposals for developments with 15+ storey residential towers. 😅

but would sure be nice if there were such developments proposed for Saint John's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley!

Brentwood Tower still being the most recent 15+ storey residential development in Saint John (completed in 1973) is pretty sad... but thankfully it won't be that way for much longer!

[darkharbour]

It's possible there could be height to the "high rise" in Phase 2, given that it claims 200+ units. For a local comparison, the 16-story Fundy Quay building plan is listed at being 165 units, and isn't the King St building around 90-100 units? So even two basic 100-unit buildings could be 10-16 floors depending on overall building footprint and unit size.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

From NB Retail Talk and Share:

Saint John: Status update on the Health and Social Innovation Centre under construction at the UNB SJ campus.

For more info about this building: https://unb.ca/integrated-health/building.html

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

It's possible there could be height to the "high rise" in Phase 2, given that it claims 200+ units. For a local comparison, the 16-story Fundy Quay building plan is listed at being 165 units, and isn't the King St building around 90-100 units? So even two basic 100-unit buildings could be 10-16 floors depending on overall building footprint and unit size.

Any idea why there's been zero 15+ storey high rise developments in Millidgeville since the completion of Brentwood Tower? Has there even been a 10 storey building built in Millidgeville after Brentwood Tower?

I often bring up the potential for ocean views in Saint John, but the views of the Kennebecasis and Saint John rivers from high rises in Millidgeville would be some of the nicest water views in the whole region. I mentioned this in the Great Canadian Suburban skyline thread, but thought I'd mention it again here.

A pair of residence towers for UNBSJ would be nice to see one day.





Millidgeville could have some of the best high rise views in all of Canada.