White Oaks Mall Redevelopment

[CanadianTalk]

As some of you may know, Westdell Developments purchased White Oaks Mall last year, and they hinted that parts of the mall property would eventually see some intensification.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...mall-1.6933010

The ward councillor for the area (Elizabeth Peloza) posted today that Westdell is hosting a neighbourhood open house tomorrow where they will be "presenting details on a mixed-use development plan incorporating two high-rise residential towers proposed for the northwest corner of the White Oaks Mall property, fronting Bradley Avenue."

Will update this thread when I have more information, but I thought I'd start this thread for discussion!

[Djeffery]

Will go good with the proposal on the north side of Bradley as well. Also, I'm sure this will be where the closed parking garage is, so that will be good to see gone and replaced as well. I'm sure the people in the smaller buildings next door will still bitch though. Such is life.

Also, is it just me or does that renovation on the Wellington side of the mall seem to be taking an especially long time for all that it is?

[MolsonExport]

It is a good a place as any (besides the core, and equal to Masonville area) for densification and height.

[ssiguy]

White Oaks is a good choice being on the BRT route and near the 401. WO also has permeance that most other places don't.

The only 3 malls that I would bet money on still being there in 50 years are White Oaks, Masonville, and Cherryhill. WO/MV are the biggest malls in the city and are at extreme opposite ends so they do not compete with each other. Also, they serve vastly different socio-economic clientele. Cherryhill was smart enough never to expand from it's very local service area and that tactic has served them well.

[jammer139]

Good location but it may be a very long time before we see Westdell put a shovel in the ground. They seem to have long term vision for their other retail locations with maps showing future buildings as far out as 2050 at the plazas at Richmond and Fanshawe, Wellington and Baseline and Oxbury Mall. The most likely building to get built by them next is probably the proposal for Mornington Ave in the SW corner of Oxbury Mall.

[jammer139]

Westdell has now submitted a zoning application for 2 residential towers for the parking lot of White Oaks Mall. Replacing the current parking garage.




Official Plan and Zoning amendments to allow:
• Two high-rise towers with heights of 30 and 32
storeys and a total of 568 residential units, in
addition to the existing shopping mall.
• Special provisions for increased building height,
increased density, reduced front yard depth,
reduced interior side yard depth, reduced rear
yard depth, and increased lot coverage.



https://london.ca/sites/default/file...0and%20PPM.pdf


They have also submitted a functional plan document for 8 future towers in the surrounding parking lots around the Mall


https://london.ca/sites/default/file...g%20Report.pdf


City webpage link - https://london.ca/business-developme...ellington-road

[CanadianTalk]

Here is the site-plan for the first phase (30s and 32s towers) :




Here are the renderings:





Here is the master-plan for White Oaks Mall. It is a long-term vision plan with some of the towers marked as 2055-2065.

It proposes more apartment buildings along the north, west, and south side, as well as some retail pads along the east side.

[Djeffery]

I'd like to see Westdell build one tower before getting all excited about the 15 or so that they have proposed lol. Interesting idea with a 12s connected directly to the mall though.

[jammer139]

I agree they really struggled to get their relatively small 4s low-rise on Fanshawe built and are still working on the finishing touches now. Hopefully they learned a lot about residential construction and use that for whatever their next build is. My guess is it will be the Mornington Ave mid-rise they have proposed. I would hope they move quickly to secure the workers on a new build and if they need to hire a general contractor like CF or Middlesex Concrete they are doing that now.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'd like to see Westdell build one tower before getting all excited about the 15 or so that they have proposed lol. Interesting idea with a 12s connected directly to the mall though.

[ohhimark]

They have nothing planned for the period between 2035-2050

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by ohhimark

They have nothing planned for the period between 2035-2050

That will be when they do the 2030-35 plan lol. The only 2025-30 stuff I see them actually doing by 2030 are the 2 restaurants along Wellington and possibly demo of the first parking garage.

[CanadianTalk]

Here are a couple of articles from today regarding Westdell's proposal for 30-storey and 32-storey towers at White Oaks Mall.

The CTV article mentions that they hope to break ground by early 2026.

CBC London: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...tart-1.7171978

CTV London: https://london.ctvnews.ca/a-great-lo...wers-1.6847864

London Free Press: https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...s-outside-core

[MolsonExport]

Great stuff if it comes to fruition

[CanadianTalk]

City planning staff is recommending that Council refuse the applicant's requested proposal for the first phase (30s and 32s towers @ Bradley/Montgomery) and instead approve a proposal that allows for a maximum height of 27s.

https://london.ca/sites/default/file...ton%20Road.pdf

The quote below (taken from the report) explains the main rationale for their recommendation.

Will make for an interesting discussion at council. This goes to the planning committee on July 16th and then to full council on July 23rd.

The Transit Village Place Type contemplates a standard maximum height of 15 storeys and an upper maximum of 22 storeys. Heights are to step down from the core of the Transit Village to any adjacent Neighbourhoods Place Type. Although the site does not directly abut the Neighbourhoods Place Type, staff are of the opinion that a more appropriate transition is required towards the existing mid-rise (7 storey) apartment buildings to the west.

Staff are further of the opinion that the proposed 32 storey intensity would be more appropriately directed to the intersection of Wellington Road and Bradley Avenue. As such, staff are recommending a maximum building height of 27 storeys to provide a transition in heights while also maintaining consistency with the planned context at the intersection of Bradley Avenue and Montgomery Avenue.

[Djeffery]

Or here's an idea. Allow 32s here as the step down from 40 at the corner? If you are in those 7s buildings at Jalna, you are going to hate anything being built beside you when you are used to an unused parking garage. You aren't going to notice it's 27 instead of 32 floors.

[Djeffery]

And speaking of White Oaks redevelopment, that reconstruction on the east side of the mall is completely underwhelming for the amount of time they have spent on it.

[jammer139]

+100


Exactly correct! By the time Westdell ever gets around to building the towers on the NE corner those should be 40+ floors tall in 2040. This is a transit village after all and should be allowed to have as much density as possible. The city engineering dept better be building the sewer, water capacity appropriately when they dig up Wellington for the BRT construction in the next few years. We know from past experience that sewer/water capacity infrastructure lasts for 100+ years. Build for the future not the present.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Or here's an idea. Allow 32s here as the step down from 40 at the corner? If you are in those 7s buildings at Jalna, you are going to hate anything being built beside you when you are used to an unused parking garage. You aren't going to notice it's 27 instead of 32 floors.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Or here's an idea. Allow 32s here as the step down from 40 at the corner? If you are in those 7s buildings at Jalna, you are going to hate anything being built beside you when you are used to an unused parking garage. You aren't going to notice it's 27 instead of 32 floors.

This is bang on, why would council debate between 27 and 32 floors? That seems like a complete waste of time, certainly if there are other concerns address them but as you said who is going to even notice the difference at that point.

[tyeman200]

I wonder if those triple towers set for around 2060 is due to Walmart probably finally moving out of the mall by then?

Cause once that is taken over, the parking lot for Walmart becomes very small and they have no space for their Garden Department. So I can imagine by that time, Wal-Mart will probably have their own store, probably right by Costo near the 401, which tbh dunno why they just don't do that now.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I wonder if those triple towers set for around 2060 is due to Walmart probably finally moving out of the mall by then?

Cause once that is taken over, the parking lot for Walmart becomes very small and they have no space for their Garden Department. So I can imagine by that time, Wal-Mart will probably have their own store, probably right by Costo near the 401, which tbh dunno why they just don't do that now.

Yeah, the never ending saga of are they staying or are they going? The ownership 2 times ago (Red Cliff or something like that, 20 years ago) wanted Walmart gone and they were planning to build first down at Exeter and Wonderland and then a little north of Wharncliffe on Wonderland. Then they sold the mall to Bentall and they locked Walmart into a lease with the renovation of the store. Now they've sold the place and who knows what Westdell wants to do. I can't imagine they want to lose Walmart now, unless it is to a site they own somewhere in the south end. Bentall was Penequity, so I could have seen Walmart going over there but who knows now.

I was in that mall on Sunday for the first time in a couple years and was surprised to see how dead it has become with lots of empty stores. And even with the somewhat recent floor to ceiling reno, the mall just looks dumpy. Seriously, the best thing for that mall is Walmart to leave, most Walmart malls seem to be trashy. Of course, the Bay looks to be on it's last legs too, so that would be 2 big holes to fill. Maybe they can do theaters where the Bay is and residential where Walmart is but I don't know if Westdell has the "oomph" for that. Everyone says how nice it is to have a local company own a mall like that, but I'm not sure this won't be the death knell for the place. Similar to Westmount under Sifton. With CF owning Masonville, and at the time, large national companies owning White Oaks, those companies had leverage with retailers. How does a Westdell compete with CF to keep desired retailers if those chains have to pick one or the other in their own possible downsizing business?