The Interstate control city signage thread

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

No, it's Clevelanders who think they're part of the east coast. The green overhead interstate highway signs on I-80 say "New York City" immediately east of Downtown Cleveland, even though it's 400+ miles away.

NYC becomes the control city when I-80E splits off from the turnpike, just outside of Youngstown, until the OH/PA border, which is less than 20 miles. (I've driven this route about 100 times.) Oddly, PA doesn't ever use NYC as the control city on I-80E, even when you get close to the New Jersey border crossing which is less than 70 miles from Manhattan. However, they did finally install a sign this year directing people to follow I-80E for New York.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

NYC becomes the control city when I-80E splits off from the turnpike, just outside of Youngstown, until the OH/PA border, which is less than 20 miles. (I've driven this route about 100 times.) Oddly, PA doesn't ever use NYC as the control city on I-80E, even when you get close to the New Jersey border crossing which is less than 70 miles from Manhattan. However, they did finally install a sign this year directing people to follow I-80E for New York.

I haven't been up there in over 10 years so I couldn't remember where, exactly, the signs change, but I seem to recall being in the Cleveland metro and seeing signs to NYC.

Clevelanders still think they're the sole express stop on the trains between Chicago and NYC. Back then, Cleveland was also home to the biggest company on the planet, Standard Oil. But that was all 50+ years ago at this point.

By contrast, I think that the east coast trains out of Columbus all went through Cleveland, and east coast trains out of Cincinnati went to Baltimore. I'm not an expert on old passenger train routes, so I might be off.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I haven't been up there in over 10 years so I couldn't remember where, exactly, the signs change, but I seem to recall being in the Cleveland metro and seeing signs to NYC.

The I-76/I-80 split by Youngstown has NYC control signs, although I-480 coming out of Cleveland and I-76 out of Akron seems to stick to Youngstown at a quick Streetview glance.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

The I-76/I-80 split by Youngstown has NYC control signs, although I-480 coming out of Cleveland and I-76 out of Akron seems to stick to Youngstown at a quick Streetview glance.

There are definitely NYC signs in Cleveland area. I remember them on the turnpike. It's weird, being that far.

Also weird to see Memphis signs on the Dan Ryan in Chicago.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There are definitely NYC signs in Cleveland area. I remember them on the turnpike. It's weird, being that far.

Also weird to see Memphis signs on the Dan Ryan in Chicago.

Another fun one is this sign for Des Moines...in Indiana.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Also weird to see Memphis signs on the Dan Ryan in Chicago.

A large reason for that is the fact that I-57 is one of the most unnecessary stretches of interstate, at least south of Champaign.

I guess they could have controlled the I-57 split off of the Dan Ryan with "Champaign", but they went with Memphis, nearly 500 miles away, LOL.


Another Chicago control sign oddity is the I-290 W split off of l-90/94 at the circle junction in downtown where the control signs literally say "west suburbs".

How's that for a control city?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

Another fun one is this sign for Des Moines...in Indiana.

Doesn’t this one make sense though? You continue straight to finish going thru Gary to Chicago and you take the exit to pass thru the south Chicago burbs, quad cities, and reach Des Moines as the next major city. Should the sign say Joliet or Davenport instead?

[PHX31]

This interstate control city discussion is interesting and could be a good topic on it's own. There doesn't seem to be any actual federal standard, just guidance, and states seem to pick and choose differently, even within states and cities themselves. In the MUTCD:

The determination of major destinations or control cities is important to the quality of service provided by the freeway. Control cities on freeway guide signs are selected by the States and are contained in the "Guidelines for the Selection of Supplemental Guide Signs for Traffic Generators Adjacent to Freeways, 4th Edition/Guide Signs, Part II: Guidelines for Airport Guide Signing/Guide Signs, Part III: List of Control Cities for Use in Guide Signs on Interstate Highways," published by and available from the American Association of State and Highway Transportation Officials (see Section 1A.11).

Control cites (how some interstate signs can say "west suburbs" or whatever, I don't know..): https://transportation.org/traffic/i...ontrol-cities/

[TWAK]

^What's interesting is US Highways can have at-grade crossings and still be considered freeway.
Speaking of, here's one that was done just for fun on US-50 in Sac:

Source

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Doesn’t this one make sense though? You continue straight to finish going thru Gary to Chicago and you take the exit to pass thru the south Chicago burbs, quad cities, and reach Des Moines as the next major city. Should the sign say Joliet or Davenport instead?

I would think Joliet (especially with the I-55 interchange) or Quad Cities personally rather than the nearly six hour-away Des Moines (indeed, similar distance to Cleveland-NYC).

It might be a similar boat to I-57 and Memphis where the control city is the next major metro after the cornfields, but skipping over an entire state is an odd sight.

[Six Corners]

The Des Moines sign is odd because Davenport should really be the next control city, at least it is when you're coming from Des Moines. When you're in Illinois they use neither Des Moines nor Davenport, instead it's just "Iowa."

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

A
Another Chicago control sign oddity is the I-290 W split off of l-90/94 at the circle junction in downtown where the control signs literally say "west suburbs".

How's that for a control city?

Interesting, but it somehow makes sense to me (even though I don't know which suburbs they're referring to), because here in SoCal, on the 91 Freeway east of Orange County, the control city going west is "Beach Cities." I know which beach cities they're referring to, but I would imagine someone not from the area wouldn't know. But then as you get into Orange County, the control city becomes "Los Angeles," and then when you get to the 5 it becomes "Artesia," and then as you enter LA County it becomes "THRU TRAFFIC," and then into Long Beach it becomes " WEST."

Originally Posted by PHX31

This interstate control city discussion is interesting and could be a good topic on it's own. There doesn't seem to be any actual federal standard, just guidance, and states seem to pick and choose differently, even within states and cities themselves.

Funny, because on my recent road trip through Arizona, in Phoenix, for the 10 going west, the control city is "Los Angeles." However, in Los Angeles, the control city going east from LA is "San Bernardino," and then if I remember correctly, the next control city is "Redlands/Palm Springs," and then from there it's "Indio and Other Desert Cities" (hehe), and then going east from Indio, you see "Blythe/Phoenix."

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Funny, because on my recent road trip through Arizona, in Phoenix, for the 10 going west, the control city is "Los Angeles." However, in Los Angeles, the control city going east from LA is "San Bernardino," and then if I remember correctly, the next control city is "Redlands/Palm Springs," and then from there it's "Indio and Other Desert Cities" (hehe), and then going east from Indio, you see "Blythe/Phoenix."

Those *kind of* are the control cities in the link I posted. But yes, I've always noticed in the LA area, even on non-interstate freeways there are control cities or suburbs of the immediate area, which I think is good. On the freeway system in the metro Phoenix area, the state DOT doesn't put any control cities/suburbs (on state highways/freeway). I once a dozen or so years ago asked ADOT about this... it's helpful if you're approaching an interchange. They eventually put some on the 202 east in Tempe approaching the 101 (Scottsdale north, Chandler south), but then they took them away for some reason years later during additional construction. There might be a few unusual examples out there of "non conforming" signage. I can think of one on I-10 where the "control city" is "Central Phoenix".

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Those *kind of* are the control cities in the link I posted. But yes, I've always noticed in the LA area, even on non-interstate freeways there are control cities or suburbs of the immediate area, which I think is good. On the freeway system in the metro Phoenix area, the state DOT doesn't put any control cities/suburbs (on state highways/freeway). I once a dozen or so years ago asked ADOT about this... it's helpful if you're approaching an interchange. They eventually put some on the 202 east in Tempe approaching the 101 (Scottsdale north, Chandler south), but then they took them away for some reason years later during additional construction. There might be a few unusual examples out there of "non conforming" signage. I can think of one on I-10 where the "control city" is "Central Phoenix".

My guess is on that link, they meant to put Redlands instead of Riverside. Riverside isn't a control city on the 10; it is on the 91, and it is on the 60, east of Pomona.

What I find interesting about Phoenix's freeway system is that there are no 3-digit interstates, I assume because those circumferential/bypass routes were all paid for by local/state money.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

A large reason for that is the fact that I-57 is one of the most unnecessary stretches of interstate, at least south of Champaign.

I guess they could have controlled the I-57 split off of the Dan Ryan with "Champaign", but they went with Memphis, nearly 500 miles away, LOL.


Another Chicago control sign oddity is the I-290 W split off of l-90/94 at the circle junction in downtown where the control signs literally say "west suburbs".

How's that for a control city?

I feel like Chicago doesn't really rely much on control cities. Most of the signs in Chicago seem to be pointing drivers towards states. Can't really even think of another place that uses states as the control instead of a large city like Chicago does.

Also, I find it amusing that Chicago is the control city on I-94W starting inside the city of Detroit, but I don't think Detroit is ever the control city in Illinois at all. How did all of those Michigan and Michigan State alums find their way home this week?

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I feel like Chicago doesn't really rely much on control cities. Most of the signs in Chicago seem to be pointing drivers towards states. Can't really even think of another place that uses states as the control instead of a large city like Chicago does.

Also, I find it amusing that Chicago is the control city on I-94W starting inside the city of Detroit, but I don't think Detroit is ever the control city in Illinois at all. How did all of those Michigan and Michigan State alums find their way home this week?

The Edens/Kennedy split has control cities (since ... both go to Wisconsin eventually).

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

The Edens/Kennedy split has control cities (since ... both go to Wisconsin eventually).

They use Milwaukee and Rockford.

Counterpoint: the Dan Ryan 90/94 split uses Indiana Toll and Indiana as the control destinations and both go to the same state.

For Texas:

—Austin generally uses Waco and San Antonio as the control cities on I-35.
—San Antonio uses Austin and Laredo for I-35, Corpus on I-37, and El Paso and Houston on I-10.
—Dallas uses Fort Worth and Shreveport for I-20, Denton and Waco for I-35, —Houston for I-45, and Fort Worth and Texarkana for I-30.
—Fort Worth uses Dallas for both I-30 and I-20, westbound I-20 is Abilene, and Denton and Waco again for I-35.
—Arlington uses Dallas and Fort Worth for both I-20 and I-30.
—Houston uses Dallas for I-45, Beaumont and San Antonio for I-10, Cleveland (TX) and Victoria for I-69. Victoria will remain the control city, but I guarantee that Cleveland will be replaced with Lufkin, Nacogdoches, or Shreveport once I-69 is finished.
—El Paso uses San Antonio and Las Cruces for I-10.
—The 10/20 Split uses Dallas/Fort Worth and San Antonio.
—Brownsville, Raymondville, Corpus Christi, McAllen, Harlingen, and Edinburg are all used as control cities throughout the RGV, and Corpus only uses San Antonio on I-37.
—Lubbock and Amarillo are the only control cities for I-27, and Abilene uses Oklahoma City and Albuquerque for I-40.
— Wichita Falls uses Lawton for I-44.

It is common to see “Downtown” being the control point throughout an entire region in Texas (outside of the metroplex) and other cities only used in the direction opposite of downtown. I believe that Houston uses “Galleria” as a control for 610 on a sign or two as well. The Metroplex uses Dallas and Fort Worth instead of “Downtown.”

Texas also sneaks in a lot more destination cities on its signs via by adding control cities for our voluminous amount of coterminous routes. We aren’t the only state that does this, but we do it almost always and almost everywhere. Chicagoland keeps it minimal and sticks to states, which makes sense in the local “tri-state” context there.

This would make a fun thread topic, if a mod wants to spin this convo off.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I feel like Chicago doesn't really rely much on control cities. Most of the signs in Chicago seem to be pointing drivers towards states. Can't really even think of another place that uses states as the control instead of a large city like Chicago does.

St. Louis does manage to make the control city list for 55 south. Of course you pass signs in the lead up saying Wisconsin and Indiana rather than specific cities.

[Steely Dan]

^ yeah, st. Louis is the CC for when the Stevenson splits of the Dan Ryan.

Memphis is the CC for when I-57 splits off the Dan Ryan

Milwaukee and Rockford are the CCs for the Kennedy/Eden's split.

Aurora, Indiana, Rockford and Milwaukee all get CC billing when the ike slams into the tristate.

And then there's the infamous "west suburbs" for the ike split at the circle interchange.


So it's not all just states as CCs on Chicago expressways.

[BG918]

I’ve always found it odd that in St Louis the signs for I-44 say Tulsa, while in Tulsa the signs say Joplin. I would think Springfield would make more sense for both cities..?