Western Road and Sarnia Road Intersection Improvements

[jammer139]

Looks like this much needed reconstruction of this intersection and the approaches is finally going to start late 2024 and run for 3 years.


Gazette article on project:



https://westerngazette.ca/news/campus/th...639204a-7f41-11ee-8c9d-076ce5a8595a.html


Planning report


https://pub-london.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=98829

[MolsonExport]

needs double turn lanes from Sarnia to Western Rd. Northbound, and from Western Road Southbound to Sarnia Westbound. plus a scrambled cross walk. The current design for the current traffic is asinine.

[Djeffery]

I think they could use a pedestrian overpass at some portion of that intersection or maybe just north of it.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Improvements seem pretty underwhelming for the price and don't really seem to address the existing issues. No double left turn for Western Rd, no tunnels or bridges to separate pedestrians from traffic, no side roads behind Brescia linked to Western campus. Basically it's just bike lanes, 4 bus bays, and some extensions to the existing turn lanes to Sarnia Rd... Oh it will take 3 years to complete, so traffic will be especially shit around there during that time..

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think they could use a pedestrian overpass at some portion of that intersection or maybe just north of it.

Yeah, but it won't happen. These are quite rare in Canada. Weather is one issue. Drunk people tossing things off the overpass is another. And then there is the accessibility issue.

The best we can hope for is a scrambled cross-walk, where everyone can cross on foot at the same time, in whatever direction. I don't know why we don't have more of these in Canada.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Yeah, but it won't happen. These are quite rare in Canada. Weather is one issue. Drunk people tossing things off the overpass is another. And then there is the accessibility issue.

The best we can hope for is a scrambled cross-walk, where everyone can cross on foot at the same time, in whatever direction. I don't know why we don't have more of these in Canada.

Well before your time in town, but we had one at Clarence and King for many years up until I would guess the mid to late 80's, maybe into the early 90's. Once the Galleria opened and the Arcade mall closed, there wasn't really any need for it anymore as foot traffic crossing there dropped off to next to nothing. I think the addition of one at Western/Sarnia would be a good addition, but I can see the complaints coming about the perceived lack of motion when traffic is stopped in all directions. Even though traffic would move better on the green cycle because one of the things about these scramble crosswalks is pedestrians don't cross when traffic has a green. Although, we know damn well they will anyway, so maybe some enforcement for educational purposes would be needed as well.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The best we can hope for is a scrambled cross-walk, where everyone can cross on foot at the same time, in whatever direction. I don't know why we don't have more of these in Canada.

Montreal downtown has these everywhere, and I love it. It just makes more sense to have pedestrians cross first, and let cars go afterwards. I also like in Montreal, they have a light signal for everything, including right turns.

[MolsonExport]

I am hearing that the project will entail many closed lanes and only one lane in each direction open at certain periods. The traffic at rush hour here is already incredibly horrible (could be the worst in London). It will be absolute gridlock when it goes to one lane each direction (especially given the 09248023840320 buses that travel down Western Road at Rush Hour).

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Montreal downtown has these everywhere, and I love it. It just makes more sense to have pedestrians cross first, and let cars go afterwards. I also like in Montreal, they have a light signal for everything, including right turns.

Yep, me too. Montreal does do some things right.

[MrSlippery519]

Is there any updates on this one? Does not look like they have done anything and did not see it listed on the projects for this year.

[CanadianTalk]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Is there any updates on this one? Does not look like they have done anything and did not see it listed on the projects for this year.

I don't see it on the new 2025 construction map either so my guess is that it will not be starting this year.

Not sure if it possibly has anything to do with budget constraints. Several projects seem to have been delayed within the last few years as I recall that the Highbury Ave pavement rehabilitation (from Hwy 401 to Thames River bridge) and the Southdale Road project from Westdel Bourne to Boler (to eliminate the steep curves) were postponed to 2025 a few years ago due to increased costs from the Adelaide underpass, and both of those are also not starting this year.

[jammer139]

Originally Posted by CanadianTalk

I don't see it on the new 2025 construction map either so my guess is that it will not be starting this year.

Not sure if it possibly has anything to do with budget constraints. Several projects seem to have been delayed within the last few years as I recall that the Highbury Ave pavement rehabilitation (from Hwy 401 to Thames River bridge) and the Southdale Road project from Westdel Bourne to Boler (to eliminate the steep curves) were postponed to 2025 a few years ago due to increased costs from the Adelaide underpass, and both of those are also not starting this year.

Don't forget the additional $175M and counting cost overrun on the BRT projects. Makes the $50M to $90M increase on the Adelaide underpass look like chump change.

Will not be surprised the BRT goes over $200M over budget when all is said and done which is entirely on the Municipal tax payer.

[MolsonExport]

There's gridlock from Windermere to Sarnia Road along Western Road, every evening from 3:30-6:00pm. The busses block traffic. Too many intersections/lights, and sometimes not even one car can join the queue when the lights change, on account of things being so backed up.

All those cars spewing exhaust for 20 minutes, unnecessarily.

[CanadianTalk]

I was watching clips of the council meeting from last month when Council passed the new transportation master plan, and a Councillor had asked why the Western/Sarnia project was delayed.

City staff said that because the new transportation plan now calls for rapid transit lanes along Western Road, they are trying to optimize the design of this intersection rebuild to minimize construction disruption and costs when the rapid transit lanes are eventually installed.

They also said that the Phillips Aziz part of the reconstruction will continue as-is.

[CanadianTalk]

And here is a new report on the Western/Sarnia intersection upgrades from city staff!

https://pub-london.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=118624

To minimize cost and traffic impacts, full reconstruction of Western Road and Sarnia Road, including the work to accommodate new storm sewers will be deferred until reconstruction is required to convert Western Road to a rapid transit corridor. Timing is uncertain (as it relies on external funding) but ideally at some time before 2035.

Instead, it is recommended that a few interim measures get constructed next year (in 2026):

Western Road (Platt’s Lane to Burnlea Walk)

• Extend the southbound right turn lane (from Western Road to Westbound Sarnia Road);
• Provide new in-boulevard cycling infrastructure from the north to south limits of the study area; and
• Watermain replacement from Platt’s Lane to Sarnia Road to address condition and provide additional capacity to support growth.

Sarnia Road (Sleightholme Avenue to Western Road)

• Provide new dedicated in-boulevard cycling lanes and wider pedestrian sidewalks from the east to west limits of the study area

Phillip Aziz Ave

• reconstruction from earlier plans will proceed, which includes new urban roadway cross-section with sidewalks, curbs, bike paths, etc

The City did look at implementing a pedestrian scramble crossing and it was not recommended to proceed.

Instead, city staff is proposing no right turns on red, leading pedestrian intervals, and lagging left-turn phases. Lagging left-turn phases delay left-turning vehicles until after pedestrian and through/right-turning traffic phases have ended.

[Djeffery]

As far away as the full reconstruction is, they should look at a pedestrian tunnel while they have this all opened up. So many people trying to cross Western (as well as Sarnia) that it can take a long time to make the right onto Sarnia to go west.

[jammer139]

+100 on the tunnel. There is one further north and there should either be another tunnel or overhead walkway up near the Brescia driveway in the future tying in all the future buildings that will be built on the west side of road to main campus. Would love to see a very large future 2-3 level underground parking garage built on the west side where future campus buildings are built over top of it in order to avoid future surface lots. Hiding parking lots underground and out of sight has so many benefits.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

As far away as the full reconstruction is, they should look at a pedestrian tunnel while they have this all opened up. So many people trying to cross Western (as well as Sarnia) that it can take a long time to make the right onto Sarnia to go west.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

As far away as the full reconstruction is, they should look at a pedestrian tunnel while they have this all opened up. So many people trying to cross Western (as well as Sarnia) that it can take a long time to make the right onto Sarnia to go west.

A tunnel was looked at in the past but dismissed for safety reasons. Its one of the reasons the old tunnel at Western and Elgin was removed when Western Road was widened.

I could see it possibly integrated with a underground rapid transit station, however. One at Oxford and Richmond was proposed with the hybrid plan (LRT ran on the cancelled north leg and the currently U/C east leg that was converted to BRT).

[Djeffery]

Under, over, doesn't really matter to me. I was just thinking under because they did it before and if they are digging the road out anyway. Something to get students off street level as there are more and more of them having to cross that road and it will only increase as more is built up to the west.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

As far away as the full reconstruction is, they should look at a pedestrian tunnel while they have this all opened up. So many people trying to cross Western (as well as Sarnia) that it can take a long time to make the right onto Sarnia to go west.

this. The pedestrian tunnel under Western Road, connecting Huron to main campus, works very well, and if a similar design were somehow implemented at Sarnia/Aziz and Western Road, this would solve a lot of problems (trying to make a right hand turn is really harrowing with all the students ambling by [faces glued to their phones], opposing lane traffic trying to make left-hand turns, etc.). I hate this intersection with every fibre of my soul. One day, a pedestrian will be killed trying to cross. It is only a matter of time before such a tragedy happens.