Copied from the Confederation Line East LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Blair to Trim] thread in hopes to continue the discussion in a more appropriate thread:
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Originally Posted by YOWetal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade
I must admit that I’m not sure what you are trying to say with all of those graphs, pulled out of the linked study.
My take from looking over the graphs is, basically, that denser cities can offer more jobs within a given commute travel time. No big surprise – but I did go an read the study report. In it, is this interesting paragraph:
If you go back and look at the graphs again, you will notice that the number of jobs accessible by automobile FAR exceeds the number of jobs available to folks using other methods of commuting.
Here is that in graph form:
Take-away; Roads are the most important link between people and their jobs, giving them access to far more choices of employment. The road network of every city (except, maybe Shanghai) – regardless of its density – must be maintained to a useful level. Setting up ‘road-blocks’ (pun intended) for automobiles adversely affects cities more than any other form of transportation.
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I think your first point is the key that that anti car folks overlook. To make cities denser you need to change people's housing choices and probably the size of their housing at least at the same cost. For suburban life to continue we need a road network. Arguably the loss of suburban affordability which is shaking our society to its core is the lack of development of our road network. In Toronto how many lanes of freeways have they added since the 1970s? It is not feasible to serve white picket fences SFHs with transit. Switzerland does a bit but they are twice as rich as us. Lots of wealthier than us European states live in housing half the size of us with only communal outside space.
The 15 minute conspiracy folks aren't that wrong if this thread was policy its exactly what they are worried about. We had an election the car centric suburban folks one. I live downtown so personally I'd love to see a congestion charge totally pedestrianised Byward market through parliament and up Elgin. But it's not going to happen unless people don't just say they want to fight climate change and use transit but actually make the sacrifices necessary to do it.
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I agree. Density is a good thing in some cases. Although it is not the best thing for ALL cases.
Ottawa’s downtown had a high density of jobs. The highest in the city. But it had little in the way of residences so that people could easily access those jobs with a very short commute.
Obviously, this is a strong argument for dense Mixed-Use areas – with residences, retail, jobs, and recreation all within a 15-minute walk. Why can’t everyone see that the only way forward is to raze the downtown, the suburbs, and the exurbs and replace them with 15-minute neighbourhoods? (OK, there was a bit of sarcasm in that last line.
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Well, maybe those “car-centric suburban folks” can see a different possibility. One with more options.
Let’s look at the idea of a 15-minute neighbourhood. In our imaginary neighbourhood, we have 7 small rows of attached-housing, 4 low- and medium-rise residential buildings, 2 of which share a podium with small shops. There are 2 high-rise residential towers, each with retail at their base – one housing the small grocery store. And, there are also 2 medium-height office towers, with each having outward-facing businesses on the ground floor. Rounding out the neighbourhood is a multi-purpose sports field and a single-ice-sheet arena. You need to walk fast, but you can walk to the main road, which borders the neighbourhood, in 15 minutes to catch a bus. Cycling or driving to the main road is less convenient because all of the roads – and accompanying bike lanes – are one-way only. This allows for a sidewalk on each side, a bike lane and a traffic lane to be squeezed into the narrowest space – but it does mean that you will drive around the blocks to go anywhere.
OK, so how many jobs are there within that 15-minute neighbourhood? One for everyone who wants one? Is every type of job available to everyone?
Well, there are plenty of retail jobs available, but, maybe, not so many nursing jobs. You will notice that our neighbourhood did not have a hospital. Although there is one dentist in office 503 of one of the towers. (If you don’t like that dentist – tough. She is your option, if you stay within your community.)
I think that most people can see that there will still be a need to leave the 15-minute neighbourhood for many reasons – even if SOME of the needs can be met within the neighbourhood.
And just because the local grocery store sells bananas, it is possible that you don’t want to pay $1.19 per pound for them. You would rather drive to the large, regional, grocery store that buys an entire truckload of bananas at a time and can sell them for $0.69/lb.
Stores that are primarily supported by the local neighbourhood are usually smaller, necessitating them to charge more for what they sell. Are people willing to spend a lot more for everything they buy, just so that they can walk 10 minutes to that store?
I doubt it. Otherwise, Mac’s, Quickie, Circle-K, Wink’s, and etc. would be packed with neighbours – and carry a lot more perishable goods. These convenience stores tend to be the store that you quickly run to when you suddenly realize that you are out of cream, but your mother-in-law is coming and she always uses cream in her tea, but your spouse has taken the car to work so you can’t ‘nip over’ to the Super Store – panic – just pay the extra at the local convenience store, this once! There is a price for 'convenience'.
The idea of a 15-minute neighbourhood that supplies all of (well, maybe just ‘most of’) your needs within a 15-minute walk is cute. And it will work for some. (In England, I met folks who had lived their entire life - thus far anyway - within a half-mile radius of the pub.) I think that most people, however, who have grown up with the ability to make choices about what they want will want more than what a 15-minute neighbourhood can offer.
So, I’m not sure that suburbanites see the idea of having more services closer as a bad idea. I just think that they want to be able to still have their choices available, too.