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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 12:50 AM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
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White House releases new decennial MSA/CSA delineations

A lot of big changes.

•Atlanta MSA loses Lamar
•Chicago MSA loses Kenosha
•Cincinnati MSA loses Union
•Cleveland MSA GAINS Ashtabula
•Fresno MSA GAINS Madera
•Houston MSA GAINS San Jacinto
•Indianapolis MSA loses Putnam, GAINS Tipton
•Louisville MSA GAINS Meade, Nelson
•Memphis MSA GAINS Benton
•Nashville MSA GAINS Hickman
•New Orleans MSA loses Saint Tammany (Big loss for New Orleans!)
•New York MSA loses Pike
•Pittsburgh MSA GAINS Lawrence
•Virginia Beach MSA loses Franklin city and Southampton, GAINS Surry
•Washington MSA loses Calvert

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 1:50 AM
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Woo! Birmingham re-added Walker County. That's a 65,000 bump!

Edit: That also mean that the metro is going to show a shrinking population now as opposed to the small increase in the last estimate.
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Last edited by SpawnOfVulcan; Jul 23, 2023 at 2:05 AM.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 2:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JoninATX View Post
•Cleveland MSA GAINS Ashtabula

•Pittsburgh MSA GAINS Lawrence
These are ridiculous.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 2:16 AM
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I agree with Chicagoland losing Kenosha county.

It also reduces Chicagoland back down to just a 2-state MSA, which makes things a little "cleaner'.

But why the hell didn't they also get rid of Dekalb, Grundy, Newton and Jasper counties as well?

They all have even less business being a part of the Chicago MSA than Kenosha did.



Oh well, at least the UA definition gets it mostly right for Chicagoland (with the lone exception of the round lake beach partition).
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 23, 2023 at 1:37 PM.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 12:49 PM
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I assume these changes are tail end of pandemic and work from home policies?
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 12:53 PM
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BNK, you know full well it’s commuting patterns. If only a small pct of the population commutes into Chicago, then makes sense if it’s dropped. Work from home obviously having an impact on some workers.

No big changes for NYC.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 10:15 PM
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Nashville lost in 2018 and now has gained back Hickman County. Now that's an odd one.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
These are ridiculous.
I agree. Even worse are the CSA designations, an example in Ohio is Lima with a population of 36,000, and having a CSA designation, while Toledo having about 280,000 population and having no CMSA designation. Also, Ottawa county is only 20 miles from downtown Toledo, and is not connected to Toledo's MSA, yet they are a part of the Cleveland-Akron-Canton CMSA, with Cleveland 70 miles away and Akron/Canton 95 miles away. If this is standard OMB CSA delineation, then what is the purpose of CMSA's.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
I agree with Chicagoland losing Kenosha county.

It also reduces Chicagoland back down to just a 2-state MSA, which makes things a little "cleaner'.

But why the hell didn't they also get rid of Dekalb, Grundy, Newton and Jasper counties as well?

They all have even less business being a part of the Chicago MSA than Kenosha did.
Just going on record stating that I disagree with this - the Kenosha part - but then again the whole census thing-ey is kinda wonky to me. . .

. . .
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 5:16 PM
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^ I'm just predisposed to tighter boundaries for these things.

Kenosha certainly shouldn't have been the first county lopped off of the Chicago MSA (hello Jasper and Newton!), But it's still a slimming down nonetheless, which is nice to see for a change.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 7:55 PM
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Sonoma County has now been removed from the Bay Area CSA and Santa Rosa is now a standalone MSA. Poor thing. Out there in the cruel world all by itself.

Meanwhile, Merced and Modesto remain part of the Bay Area CSA.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Sonoma County has now been removed from the Bay Area CSA and Santa Rosa is now a standalone MSA. Poor thing. Out there in the cruel world all by itself.

Meanwhile, Merced and Modesto remain part of the Bay Area CSA.
lol CSA/MSA methodology is goofy. In what world is Modesto more connected to SF than say, Petaluma is?

MSA/CSA apparently measures something, but I'm not sure I would call them "metropolitan areas" at this point. More factors need to be considered beyond the number of commuters traveling between counties.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Sonoma County has now been removed from the Bay Area CSA and Santa Rosa is now a standalone MSA. Poor thing. Out there in the cruel world all by itself.

Meanwhile, Merced and Modesto remain part of the Bay Area CSA.
Sonoma County touches the bay!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech12 View Post
lol CSA/MSA methodology is goofy. In what world is Modesto more connected to SF than say, Petaluma is?

MSA/CSA apparently measures something, but I'm not sure I would call them "metropolitan areas" at this point. More factors need to be considered beyond the number of commuters traveling between counties.
There's a commuter rail line that carries people to the SF ferry too and there's plenty of commuters going over 101 to SF. People from here commute to Santa Rosa so maybe our county will be added to the Santa Rosa MSA?
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 9:40 PM
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Sonoma County touches the bay!

There's a commuter rail line that carries people to the SF ferry too and there's plenty of commuters going over 101 to SF.
You can take "Golden Gate" transit there too lol. I guess if remote working stops being as common, then Sonoma will magically be part of the metro area again.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 9:49 PM
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I don't believe Pike County, PA was part of NYC's MSA to begin with. It's still part of its CSA though as "Hemlock Farms, PA Micropolitan Statistical Area." Kenosha and Calvert are also still part of the Chicago and DC/Baltimore CSAs, respectively.

NYC CSA lost New Haven and Litchfield Counties in CT but gained Sullivan County, NY.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 9:53 PM
38 Geary 38 Geary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Sonoma County has now been removed from the Bay Area CSA and Santa Rosa is now a standalone MSA. Poor thing. Out there in the cruel world all by itself.

Meanwhile, Merced and Modesto remain part of the Bay Area CSA.
Yeah that's definitely very weird. Sonoma County is part of the nine county Bay Area but it's now no longer a part of the San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA?
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 10:04 PM
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New Haven is now its own CSA:

New Haven-Hartford-Waterbury, CT Combined Statistical Area

Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT Metropolitan Statistical Area
New Haven, CT Metropolitan Statistical Area
Norwich-New London-Willimantic, CT Metropolitan Statistical Area
Putnam, CT Micropolitan Statistical Area
Torrington, CT Micropolitan Statistical Area
Waterbury-Shelton, CT Metropolitan Statistical Area

Western Connecticut and Greater Bridgeport Planning Regions are part of the NYC CSA. The rest of the state belongs to New Haven-Hartford. Boston CSA lost what was once Windham County.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ I'm just predisposed to tighter boundaries for these things.

Kenosha certainly shouldn't have been the first county lopped off of the Chicago MSA (hello Jasper and Newton!), But it's still a slimming down nonetheless, which is nice to see for a change.
Serious question:

How would you build a metro area (on what basis, what thresholds, etc.) which would result in a decent amount of practical differentiation from the underlying urban areas? If a metro area is significantly tighter, then isn’t it just the urban area and what, then, is the point of having metropolitan areas at all?

What about going in the opposite direction? Using census tracts as the geography with commuting patterns as the dataset, these authors (almost) exhaust every single precinct attaching each in an iterative process to a core city. Perhaps this might help to alleviate our urban/rural political divide by including everyone in these calculations and not so single-mindedly focusing on cities vis-a-vis rural areas.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166083
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166083.g005

Maybe having all three is the way to go, using census tracts for all three. Ditch counties altogether and get rid of combined statistical areas, which are useless.

Urban Areas: housing unit density qualifies for inclusion of census tracts;

Metropolitan Areas: Urban Area plus all adjacent census tracts where 25% or more of the residents commute or telecommute into the Urban Area for work every day;

Macropolitan Areas: all census tracts exhausted in an iterative process and attached to one of X metropolitan areas (the largest, perhaps using 1 million as the threshold) using commute and telecommute data, taking care to keep all secondary Urban or Metropolitan Areas whole;

Micropolitan Areas: Maybe even shift the Micropolitan Area term, and refer to all secondary Metropolitan Areas as such. I.E. those that fall within the Macropolitan Area of a more Metropolitan Area.

Rural Areas: I’d even go so far as to say that we need Rural Statistical Areas within the Macropolitan areas, so that our government has the tools and more appropriate regional data to more adequately responds to the needs of our rural citizens.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Jul 24, 2023 at 11:28 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 10:32 PM
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NYC MSA:

New York City
Nassau County, NY
Suffolk County, NY
Westchester County, NY
Rockland County, NY
Putnam County, NY

Bergen County, NJ
Hudson County, NJ
Essex County, NJ
Union County, NJ
Morris County, NJ
Passaic County, NJ
Sussex County, NJ
Middlesex County, NJ
Monmouth County, NJ
Ocean County, NJ
Somerset County, NJ
Hunterdon County, NJ

NYC CSA:

+

Orange County, NY
Dutchess County, NY
Ulster County, NY
Sullivan County, NY

Mercer County, NJ

Western Connecticut Planning Region, CT
Greater Bridgeport Planning Region, CT

Pike County, PA
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2023, 10:43 PM
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Using 2020 estimates:

Western Connecticut Planning Region: 620,549
Greater Bridgeport Planning Region: 325,778

Total: 946,327

Fairfield County: 957,419
New Haven County: 864,835
Litchfield County: 185,186

Total: 2,007,440

–1,061,113 in CT.

+78,624 in NY.

Net: –982,489
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