HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 7:57 AM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,851
High Speed 2 (HS2)

High Speed 2 (HS2)

Video Link



Background
The UK might be the birthplace of the railway, but there is only one true high-speed railway line in the UK (HS1) which runs from the Channel Tunnel to London St Pancras.

The present intercity rail network has its origins in the Victorian era but despite the lack of a TGV equivalent, carries more people than the intercity networks of France (TGV and Intercités) and Germany (ICE). There are several major trunk lines that run from London out to all corners of the UK, and HS2 looks to relieve pressure on three: primarily the West Coast Main Line (WCML), and to a lesser extent the East Coast Main Line (ECML) and Midlands Main Line (MML).

The WCML is the UK’s primary rail corridor, running from London Euston, up to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, and Scotland. It is the busiest intercity route; the backbone of several commuter lines serving various cities along its route and carries some 40% of all UK rail freight. In 2008 a decade-long and incredibly disruptive upgrade to the WCML was completed, however 60% of this new capacity has already been filled.

The ECML is the second most important trunk line in the UK and has a similar traffic profile to the WCML. It runs out of London King’s Cross up to York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Closer to London there are more intensive levels of commuter rail traffic as the southern end of the ECML forms part of the Thameslink route. There are two intercity operators on the ECML: the London North Eastern Railway and Grand Central, which carried 22.3mn and 1.5mn respectively in 2018/19.

Starting at London St Pancras, the MML runs up to Leeds via Nottingham, Derby and Leicester; East Midlands Railway provides intercity services. The London section is the primary northern route of Thameslink which is where the majority of congestion lies. The ongoing MML Upgrade Plan is increasing the number of tracks, electrification of the line north of Bedford, increasing line speeds, platform extensions and is due to be completed in 2023.

London Euston, London St Pancras and London King’s Cross are all clustered in close proximity to each other in Central London which also creates pressure on other rail services.


The Need for HS2
When the initial business case for HS2 was being drawn up in 2010-11, it was anticipated intercity passenger growth would experience annual average growth of 1.9%, which would have implied passenger growth reaching 250mn by 2049-50, which would be substantially up on current figures. In April 2020 a revised Full Business Case was published by the UK government which suggested that this has been significantly underestimated and that the rate of growth was 2.8% and that a staggering 345mn, or one million people would be using intercity rail services every day of the year.

Even looking at the shorter-term, the 2010-11 model envisioned intercity passenger volumes of 139mn by 2018-19, but the actual figure came in at 147mn. That is an additional 1mn new journeys each year on-top of the forecast growth.


Source: Department for Transport, https://assets.publishing.service.go...-phase-one.pdf

Taking the WCML as a case study, back in 1994, there were 17 trains per day in each direction from London to Manchester, in 2016 this had grown to 48. Intercity passenger growth on the WCML has risen from 13.2mn in 1996/97 to 39.5mn in 2018/19, an increase of 199%. Today, more people use the intercity services on the WCML than the entire Amtrak network. Based on current growth expectations, by 2033/34, 3,200 people will be standing on intercity trains departing London Euston at the PM peak. On the Friday PM peak this would rise to a staggering 5,900, with some 1,300 standing for 90 minutes or more to stations such as Warrington which is 320km from London. To put that 3,200 standing figure in perspective, that is the equivalent of 10.5x Acela Express trainsets. Factoring in the new forecasts, this situation will only be exacerbated further, and this doesn’t even factor in over-crowding on commuter services.


Image source from Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...tegic-case.pdf

It is hard not to underline just how transformative HS2 will be for the UK. HS2 creates a new high-capacity high-frequency high-speed main line that will connect eight of the ten biggest cities, revolutionise movement around the county and bring most of the UK population under one giant catchment.


Journey Times
Two thirds of the UK population will be within 120minutes of Central London upon the opening of Phase 2b. Some journey time comparisons:
  • London to Birmingham (45mins, down from 82mins)
  • London to Manchester (67mins, down from 127mins)
  • London to Leeds (81mins, down from 131mins)
  • Birmingham to Manchester (40mins, down from 88mins)
  • Birmingham to Leeds (49mins, down from 118mins)


Image source from Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...se_1_route.pdf

Intercity rail capacity between the north and south will triple. That in turn will free up capacity for more intensive commuter and freight services all across the country. As an example, HS2 would enable a doubling of commuter services on the Peterborough to King’s Cross corridor on the ECML. Towns will be able to see an improved level of service to surrounding towns and cities, thereby dramatically increasing nationwide connectivity. Whole new lines and stations could open.

Hundreds of thousands of new jobs and homes will be created as HS2 forms the catalyst for new economic growth. HS2 would also aid in displacing more long-distance road traffic and further undercut domestic flights, which in turn frees up slots at the UK’s congested airports for more international flights. The line is also one of the keystones in the UK government’s efforts to make the UK a net zero carbon economy by 2050.
__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 8:01 AM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,851
The Network
Once the full HS2 network is complete in 2035, there will be a new network spanning 530km capable of handling 400m trainsets travelling at up to 360kph (225mph) with frequencies of 17tph in each direction. 48 trains will operate across the HS2 network every hour. Interactive route map here: https://www.hs2.org.uk/where/route-map

The number of departures from London Euston each hour would be 17tph, of which eight would be 400m trainsets, and the remainder 200m+200m trainsets that could split further down the line. From London Euston there would be 3tph to each of Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds. Another 6tph would run from Birmingham up to Manchester and the north east increasing connectivity between the cities outside of London



Image source from Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...nement-web.pdf


Source: Department for Transport, https://assets.publishing.service.go...-phase-one.pdf

To avoid excessive and costly demolition and spoiling of the English countryside, it is intended that large sections of HS2 will be either in tunnel or in substantial cuttings. The network will be built in three phases:
  • Phase 1: London to the West Midlands
  • Phase 2a: The West Midlands to Crewe
  • Phase 2b: Split into two sections:
  • Western Leg – Crewe to Manchester and the North West, and
  • Eastern Leg – West Midlands to Leeds and the North East

Phase 1: London to the West Midlands
  • Starting from London Euston in Central London, HS2 immediately enters into the Euston tunnel (7.4km)
  • At the other end of the Euston tunnel, HS2 enters the Old Oak Common station box, essentially a giant trench.
  • Immediately to the west of the Old Oak Common station box the route heads directly into the Northolt tunnel (13.5km) which brings HS2 to the outskirts of London.
  • From there, the line runs across the Colne Valley via a 3.4km viaduct before entering into the Chiltern tunnel (15.9km).
  • Running up to the new Birmingham Interchange station, HS2 enters into a delta junction where the line splits to Phase 2a and Phase 2b Eastern Leg.
  • HS2 enters Birmingham via the Bromford tunnel (5.7km) to a new terminal at Birmingham Curzon Street.
  • Over half of Phase 1 will be below surface either in tunnel or deep cutting.
  • Enabling and construction works have commenced and the anticipated opening date for services is 2029-33.
  • https://www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2/...-west-midlands

Video Link



Source: Department for Transport, https://assets.publishing.service.go...-phase-one.pdf


Source: Cnbrb on Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2








Image source from Department for Transport: https://assets.publishing.service.go...se_1_route.pdf


Phase 2a: West Midlands to Crewe
  • North of the Birmingham delta junction from Phase I, HS2 runs north-west bypassing Birmingham towards Crewe.
  • At Crewe the line branches off to Phase 2b Western Leg up to Manchester and back onto the WCML (for journeys to Liverpool and Glasgow).
  • Phase 2a will be built in parallel to Phase 1 to facilitate faster journey times to Manchester in advance of Phase 2b Western Leg.
  • This section will open in 2029-33.
  • https://www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2/...midlands-crewe

Video Link



Source: Cnbrb on Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2


Phase 2b: Western Leg – Crewe to Manchester and the North West
  • The construction of the Crewe tunnel (6.1km) will bypass the town, creating a grade separation from Phase 2a.
  • As the line reaches the outskirts of Manchester, a new station: Manchester Interchange will be built to provide access to Manchester Airport
  • HS2 then travels under the city via the Manchester tunnel (12.8km) to emerge at a new extension at Manchester Piccadilly.
  • This phase will open in 2035


Phase 2b: Eastern Leg – West Midlands to Leeds and the North East
  • Branching north of the Birmingham delta junction on Phase 1, the Eastern Leg runs north-easterly to the new East Midlands Hub located in-between Nottingham and Derby.
  • Heading north parallel to the M1 motorway, there will be spurs off HS2 onto the MML for services to Sheffield
  • On the outskirts of Leeds, there will be a junction created, with a branch heading north-eastwards to York for services on the ECML to Newcastle and Edinburgh.
  • The other branch will approach Leeds station at a right-angle on a 3.3km viaduct.
  • This phase will open in 2035.
  • https://www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2/...-line/phase-2b


Other Connections
Beyond the current plans for HS2, there are early discussions around extension of both the western and eastern legs to further reduce travel times to Glasgow, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

There is also a parallel project called High Speed North (HS3) that would create a new line running from Liverpool to Leeds via Manchester, and which would use components of the Western and Eastern Legs of HS2 Phase 2b. This is envisioned to open sometime between 2035-40.

Connections to HS1 (which terminates at the neighbouring Central London station of London St Pancras) were shelved, instead Crossrail 2 and a potential passenger transit system would connect the two. Previous plans for a loop to London Heathrow Airport were also dropped as Heathrow will be accessible via an interchange at the new Old Oak Common station via Crossrail 1.


Rolling Stock
  • A minimum 100 trains will be needed for the complete route, of which 54 trains will be required for Phase 1.
  • The primary depot for the fleet will be in Birmingham at Washwood Heath
  • Bids have been received (in image order) from CAF, Hitachi Bombardier, Alstrom, Talgo and Siemens.










Images sourced from Railcolor News: https://railcolornews.com/2019/07/11...-five-designs/
__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 8:02 AM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,851
Stations
25 stations will be served by HS2, which will require a substantial amount of new construction and redevelopment to accommodate the new trains and cope with high passenger volumes of those arriving/departing, as well as onward journeys. Some plans are still being finalised, but I’ll reference the most important stations.


London Euston
  • The current London terminus of the WCML, Euston will become the southern terminus of HS2.
  • To facilitate the new services, 11 platforms to cope with the 400m trainsets used on HS2 will be built.
  • Phase 1 will see six platforms built with a further five being delivered in Phase 2.
  • The Underground station (both Northern Line branches and Victoria) will be significantly expanded and a new underground corridor will connect to the neighbouring Euston Square tube station (Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan)
  • A further rebuild of the post-WWII station building which houses the classic commuter services is being considered, designs are due later this year.
  • There are various conversations about what to do with passenger flows between Euston, St Pancras and King’s Cross to avoid unnecessary one-stop rides on the various Underground lines between the stations. One suggestion is an automated people mover and the other is to integrate the Crossrail 2 station which would run in-between Euston and St Pancras.














Images sourced from Grimshaw: https://grimshaw.global/projects/hs2-euston-station


Old Oak Common
  • A historic rail and industrial site, the Old Oak Common station will be at the heart of the Old Oak and Park Royal regeneration area, the station will have low-level and high-level platforms
  • Six 450m HS2 platforms built in an 850m long underground box, which will connect at either end to the Euston and Northolt tunnels, similar to Stratford International in East London.
  • Eight conventional platforms on the Great Western Main Line and Crossrail 1 for connections to London Paddington, Heathrow, West of England and Wales.
  • All platforms will be connected by a new concourse to provide interchange between the various lines.
  • There will also be a connection to two new London Overground stations in the surrounding area.
  • Some 250,000 people are expected to use the station every day.
















Images sourced from HS2: https://hs2inoldoak.commonplace.is/s...gement/details and https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/news/...n-is-submitted


Birmingham Interchange
  • Located on the outskirts of Birmingham, this is a brand-new station that will have four platforms and two through-running lines for non-stopping services.
  • A new elevated 2.3km automated people mover will connect Birmingham Interchange to the National Exhibition Centre, Birmingham International station (WCML) and Birmingham Airport.
  • The station design will be incredibly energy efficient and the first of an railway station in the world to achieve the highest levels of sustainability including solar panels and air source heat pumps.

Video Link















Images sourced from HS2: https://hs2insolihull.commonplace.is...design/details


Birmingham Curzon Street
  • A new terminus station located in the city centre of Birmingham that will open in Phase 1.
  • Seven new platforms will be built atop a new viaduct which will at the end of Phase 2b see nine trains depart every hour.
  • It will be built adjacent to Birmingham Moor Street (Chiltern Main Line) and a short walk from the main city station of Birmingham New Street (WCML).
  • The historic Curzon Street station from 1838 (which is visible in some pictures) will be incorporated into the development.
  • The station is the anchor to the 150-hectare Curzon Street Masterplan which envisions the redevelopment of low-density industrial units and deliver thousands of new homes and jobs.

Video Link













Images sourced from HS2: https://hs2inbirmingham.commonplace....design/details


Crewe
  • Crewe is a junction station in the north-west on the WCML where six lines converge. Currently 28tph intercity, regional and commuter services run to most corners of the UK. As such it will be an important stop on the route.
  • The current platform alignment which has been rather sporadic since it was opened over 180 years ago will be rationalised to allow for two platforms of 400m.
  • As part of Phase 2b Western Leg, a 6.1km tunnel under Crewe is planned to allow non-sop services to bypass the town.


Images sourced from HS2: https://www.hs2.org.uk/stations/crewe


Manchester Interchange
  • A new four platform station will be built on the western boundary of Manchester Airport and adjacent to the M56 motorway
  • There will be two platforms and two through tracks constructed below ground level.
  • An extension to Metrolink’s Airport Line will provide access to the airport terminals and the existing Manchester Airport station which connects to the WCML and regional rail routes.
  • Journey times from Manchester Airport to the city centre would be 10minutes.




Images sourced from Bennetts Associates: https://www.bennettsassociates.com/p...wth-strategies


Manchester Piccadilly
  • The existing station is the primary northern terminus for the WCML and the busiest intercity, regional and commuter station for Manchester and the north.
  • A new four platform annex will be built alongside the existing station on a viaduct.
  • Consideration is also being given for the new HS2 extension to include two subterranean levels, including four Metrolink platforms and at a deeper level, another four platforms would be built for HS3 services linking Liverpool and Leeds.














Images sourced from Manchester City Council: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloa...march_2018.pdf


East Midlands Hub
  • Designs are still being finalised, but the location is in-between Derby and Nottingham on disused railway land.
  • Eight platforms would be built; four for HS2 and four for local rail services. Two through lines would also allow for non-stopping HS2 services.
  • A new heavy rail service would ensure that the city centre stations of Derby and Nottingham would be within 10 minutes.


Images sourced from HS2: https://www.hs2.org.uk/stations/east-midlands-hub


Leeds
  • Plans are at early stage, but there would be a new multi-platform annex that would attach to the existing Leeds station from the south-east.


Images sourced from HS2: https://www.hs2.org.uk/stations/leeds-station
__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 1:21 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,260
Outstanding. I really hope it doesn't take the Brits another 20 years to complete this.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 1:42 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,905
Thank you for the very informative posts. What is the likelihood that this will be built?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted May 19, 2020, 6:38 PM
Qubert Qubert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Forgive my ignorance for not realizing this is still going on LOL.

This is a must build for the UK. London housing prices alone demand it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted May 21, 2020, 2:07 PM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,851
Preparation and site-clearance works have been ongoing for several months, the most noticeable works being at the Phase 1 sites of London Euston, Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street.

The Notice to Proceed was issued in mid-April which grants formal approval to proceed and award contracts. The first TBM’s will start tunnelling in less than 12 moths time. The target for opening Phase 1 is 2029-3, with Phase 2a and 2b complete in 2035. A lot of the work around Phase 2b is still ongoing as it will likely integrate with a HS3 running from Liverpool to Leeds via Manchester.

London Euston


Old Oak Common


Birmingham Curzon Street

Images sourced from nrairops: https://twitter.com/nrairops
__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2020, 9:49 AM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,851
Latest project pictures. Images sourced from: https://twitter.com/nrailops and https://twitter.com/HS2ltd

London Euston
Works are progressing at quite a pace to clear the land for the approach into London Euston and the tunnel portals that take HS2 out to Old Oak Common



Chiltern Tunnel
Excavation work for the tunnel entrance to the dual bore 16km Chiltern Tunnels is progressing.







__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 6:25 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
Woah, what infrastructure... how in God's name do you brits afford this?????
When it's a literal nation building infrastructure project, you pay.

This thing has dominated British politics for the last decade, but it's going to transform how the entire country functions. The cost isn't really nailed down but estimated to be north of 100 billion pounds.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 8:03 PM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
Woah, what infrastructure... how in God's name do you brits afford this?????
Massive taxes on fuel:

Quote:
VAT is applied after fuel duty, so, for example, the pump price of a litre of petrol currently reflects the pre-tax price plus 57.95p for fuel duty plus 20 per cent VAT on the pre-tax price and a further 11.59p for VAT at 20 per cent on fuel duty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 3:08 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,486
^ ahem, *brexit*. They aren’t all geniuses
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 4:04 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Monterey CA
Posts: 4,201
This is fantastic, kudos to the UK for getting their shit together and making this a reality.

I wish we could get our heads out of our asses and do this in the United States. Air travel is effective and fast, but woefully inefficient, expensive and challenging, with a lot of variables that constantly hamper successful execution (I'm looking at you, weather, as being one of the biggest factors). I really think HSR in the US would be a strong, unifying cultural milestone, in addition to being a major transportation boon.
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 9:24 PM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
True. But in the realm that we care about on this forum, they are making all the right calls.
It's easier to dedicate all those resources for a single city that is effectively the British equivalent of NYC, DC and LA in one and has dominated England, the UK and Great Britain for many centuries.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 6:43 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

I'm not so sure all their calls are correct, but they did make one important call that California HSR did not. Start with connecting your two largest cities in phase 1.

it was to their advantage that the two largest cities are only 118 miles apart - while in California they are 397 miles apart using Highway 99.
If you are connecting the two largest cities in the entire country, New York City and Los Angeles are 2,774 miles apart using the shortest highways.

The entire HSR2 project includes construction of 335 miles of new HSR corridors, and will visit 8 of the UK's largest cities. Just LA to SF requires more tracks. Building HSR to the 8 largest US cities will require thousands of miles of new HSR corridors.
Here's a list of the 8 largest metros in the USA;
New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, District of Columbia, Miami, and Philadelphia.
NYC, LA, and Chicago on the 2,774 mile corridor mentioned earlier intercontinental route.
NYC, Philadelphia, D.C. and Miami on a second 1,276 mile corridor on the east coast.
A third corridor to the two Texas cities would be needed, from Kansas City on the intercontinental route, Dallas is 508 miles away, and Houston an additional 239 miles, for a subtotal 747 miles of new HSR line.
At a minimum, a national HSR network reaching at least the 8 largest metros in the USA would require 4,797 miles of new HSR corridors. To put that in perspective, 4797 / 335 = 14.319, or 1431.9% more.

Last edited by electricron; Jul 10, 2020 at 7:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 7:39 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
Well they are getting it done and people want it over there whereas in America it's all up in the air and you got people hating on rail for stupid tribal political reasons (thinking that only commies ride it or whatever). So I'll go with the Brits here, sorry. British people are reliable in getting large transit projects done, like Crossrail and the HS1/Chunnel. I got not faith in whoever is building or doing the HSR in America because the politics are against rail in this country. The whole thing could be knocked off the tracks any given year by any given hillbilly president.
In the UK, the longest time included in the posted slides was London to Newcastle, at 2 hours and 11 minutes (approximately 2.2 hours)
To travel the 2774 miles between NYC and LA in 2.2 hours, the train would have to average 1260 mph, faster than the world famous Concorde jet could fly.

Distances and elapse travel times matter. Jets works far better at getting you there in a reasonable amount of time over these large distances than trains.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2020, 1:24 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by doglover99 View Post
The NEC is where they should have started. Similar to Lon-Bm-Man is DC-Phil-NYC
Are NYC, Philadelphia, and D.C. in California?

Have the taxpayers of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland passed referendums to buy bonds to pay for this new HSR line like California?

Last edited by electricron; Jul 10, 2020 at 6:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 1:58 PM
Yuri's Avatar
Yuri Yuri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,448
Is it any plans to expand it to Scotland, a Phase 2-C maybe? I heard London-Edinburgh is a busy corridor.

And what about Glasgow-Edinburgh connection? Is it HSR or ordinary one? Any plans to upgrade it?
__________________
London - São Paulo - Rio de Janeiro - Londrina - Frankfurt
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2020, 12:26 PM
tayser's Avatar
tayser tayser is offline
Vires acquirit eundo
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,229
From one of the architects of the "scheme" as the Brits say. Geography of time - stop thinking of HSR as a replacement for inter-city airtravel, and think of it more along the lines of a regional development opportunity.

This guy's now done studies for the NSW government and if not for COVID, I'm sure we'd have heard something about it soon.

Video Link


Pay particular attention around ~22-29 min in and the economic activity that HS1 generated then switch your mindset from "omg, which taxes are going to pay for this" to "u-huh, you make it work over a much longer timeframe".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2020, 1:09 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 11,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
In the UK, the longest time included in the posted slides was London to Newcastle, at 2 hours and 11 minutes (approximately 2.2 hours)
To travel the 2774 miles between NYC and LA in 2.2 hours, the train would have to average 1260 mph, faster than the world famous Concorde jet could fly.

Distances and elapse travel times matter. Jets works far better at getting you there in a reasonable amount of time over these large distances than trains.
I don't think anyone is suggesting building an HSR line from NYC to Los Angeles.

Birmingham has a population of 4 million or so, and London a population of about 14 million.

The first phase of the project is roughly equivalent of building an HSR line from New York City to Philadelphia. New York is 19 million, Philadelphia is 6 million. Birmingham is about 160km from London, Philadelphia is about 130km from New York.

Doesn't seem so crazy.

Ideally an equivilant project in the US would see an HSR corridor built from New York to Washington, with Phase 1 being NYC-Philly, 2A being Washington-Baltimore, and 2B being Baltimore-Philly.

No way that wouldn't be successful.

Amtrak is doing it's best with what it has right now on the corridor, but if it had $100 billion to sink into the corridor it could do wonders.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2020, 2:05 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
cle/west village/shaolin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I don't think anyone is suggesting building an HSR line from NYC to Los Angeles.

Birmingham has a population of 4 million or so, and London a population of about 14 million.

The first phase of the project is roughly equivalent of building an HSR line from New York City to Philadelphia. New York is 19 million, Philadelphia is 6 million. Birmingham is about 160km from London, Philadelphia is about 130km from New York.

Doesn't seem so crazy.

Ideally an equivilant project in the US would see an HSR corridor built from New York to Washington, with Phase 1 being NYC-Philly, 2A being Washington-Baltimore, and 2B being Baltimore-Philly.

No way that wouldn't be successful.

Amtrak is doing it's best with what it has right now on the corridor, but if it had $100 billion to sink into the corridor it could do wonders.

of course, but otoh its not like absolutely nothing is going on. they are, or err, were?? doing a little something with upgrading the acela amtrak trains from balto-wash dc.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...fact-sheet.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:40 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.