Where are all the African-American architects?

[chikid]

It's incredible that African-American architects get such little visibility in this industry. Do you know of any famous African-American architects? I bring it up because I came across this interesting article that touches on the issue.

http://www.microdesk.com/Education/L...ou-Should-Know

What are your thoughts?

[Duffstuff129]

If you're interested, I'd probably start by looking at demographics at architecture schools to see who gets enrolled.

I suspect already that blacks are not proportionately represented... I think it would be pretty racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups, so I think we just have to conclude that architecture programs systematically discriminate against African Americans.

Edit: I looked at Cornells demographics here. Blacks are only 5.8% of the accepted class while they are over 10% or so in the general population. I just lost a lot of respect for Cornell. You would think they would not discriminate so flagrantly, but here we are. Racism is not dead in America. Absolutely disgusting.

[Guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

If you're interested, I'd probably start by looking at demographics at architecture schools to see who gets enrolled.

I suspect already that blacks are not proportionately represented... I think it would be pretty racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups, so I think we just have to conclude that architecture programs systematically discriminate against African Americans.

Edit: I looked at Cornells demographics here. Blacks are only 5.8% of the accepted class while they are over 10% or so in the general population. I just lost a lot of respect for Cornell. You would think they would not discriminate so flagrantly, but here we are. Racism is not dead in America. Absolutely disgusting.

I strongly diagree with your alligations of racism pretty much anywhere in higher education unless you are referring to affirmative action making it easier for black students with equal grades to white students to get in. Thst is kind of racist I guess.

[MayDay]

I wouldn't say famous, but Robert Madison was the first African-American to register as an architect in Ohio. His work isn't envelope-pushing but his accomplishments and abilities to overcome obstacles certainly is:

http://www.cleveland.com/architectur..._robert_p.html

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

I suspect already that blacks are not proportionately represented... I think it would be pretty racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups, so I think we just have to conclude that architecture programs systematically discriminate against African Americans.

Edit: I looked at Cornells demographics here. Blacks are only 5.8% of the accepted class while they are over 10% or so in the general population. I just lost a lot of respect for Cornell. You would think they would not discriminate so flagrantly, but here we are. Racism is not dead in America. Absolutely disgusting.

You don't think you might be jumping to conclusions at all there? According to that Cornell link, whites, Latinos, and every other group aside from Asians are under-represented. Do you really think it's more likely that they therefore have a racist, pro-Asian bias than it is that those numbers simply reflect the demographics of qualified applicants they receive?

It certainly is a stretch to call racism without even knowing the ethnic demographics of applicants, at least. Also, how would they even know the specific ethnicity of person from their application? Unless applications are done differently there, it's not as if they're accompanied by a photograph or given a profile of their ethnic or racial background.

And it's not at all racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups - cultural values differ between groups, and that's something that extends to career and school aspirations.

You can point towards wider trends of systematic discrimination and disadvantage - in this case, architecture schools are costly and academically demanding, which gives an advantage to students from wealthier backgrounds (which are proportionately more likely to be white or Asian) - but calling out schools or industries for being racist because their demographic profile doesn't match that of the general population is unfair and completely misses the point. Nor should that even have to be the case, so long as everyone is at least given equal opportunity.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You don't think you might be jumping to conclusions at all there? According to that Cornell link, whites, Latinos, and every other group aside from Asians are under-represented. Do you really think it's more likely that they therefore have a racist, pro-Asian bias than it is that those numbers simply reflect the demographics of qualified applicants they receive?

It certainly is a stretch to call racism without even knowing the ethnic demographics of applicants, at least. Also, how would they even know the specific ethnicity of person from their application? Unless applications are done differently there, it's not as if they're accompanied by a photograph or given a profile of their ethnic or racial background.

And it's not at all racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups - cultural values differ between groups, and that's something that extends to career and school aspirations.

You can point towards wider trends of systematic discrimination and disadvantage - in this case, architecture schools are costly and academically demanding, which gives an advantage to students from wealthier backgrounds (which are proportionately more likely to be white or Asian) - but calling out schools or industries for being racist because their demographic profile doesn't match that of the general population is unfair and completely misses the point. Nor should that even have to be the case, so long as everyone is at least given equal opportunity.

Not necessarily.

This needs more study, not fast dismissal.

The financial aspect is one, but in the US, access to even Ivy league schools is not insurmountable, the funds are there for high achievers to integrate the top of the crop colleges. On the other hand, there are still many impediments to higher education and the workplace for unconnected folk.

[Duffstuff129]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You don't think you might be jumping to conclusions at all there? According to that Cornell link, whites, Latinos, and every other group aside from Asians are under-represented. Do you really think it's more likely that they therefore have a racist, pro-Asian bias than it is that those numbers simply reflect the demographics of qualified applicants they receive?

It certainly is a stretch to call racism without even knowing the ethnic demographics of applicants, at least. Also, how would they even know the specific ethnicity of person from their application? Unless applications are done differently there, it's not as if they're accompanied by a photograph or given a profile of their ethnic or racial background.

And it's not at all racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups - cultural values differ between groups, and that's something that extends to career and school aspirations.

You can point towards wider trends of systematic discrimination and disadvantage - in this case, architecture schools are costly and academically demanding, which gives an advantage to students from wealthier backgrounds (which are proportionately more likely to be white or Asian) - but calling out schools or industries for being racist because their demographic profile doesn't match that of the general population is unfair and completely misses the point. Nor should that even have to be the case, so long as everyone is at least given equal opportunity.

There cannot be such a thing as 'whites under-represented'. If I take half your bread for 10 years, we're not 'even' because we start splitting it fairly today.

And regarding an 'over-representation' of asians - why would this not indicate a pro-asian bias? If there were an 'over-representation' of whites, it would be obviously an example of racism. Why not the same for asians? 'Over-performing' asians do not deserve to get ahead at the expense of real minorities. When one tree grows so wide and tall that nothing around it may grow, you cut it down.

And if we want true equality, we need our architects to be representative of our demographics so that our buildings will reflect the cultural values of the people who inhabit them. There will always be enough black applicants to fill any job or place at a university. And using standardized tests and 'grades' (given to them by white teachers, mostly) to judge whether they belong there is not appropriate.

[The North One]

You don't have to say "african american" you can just say black.

POC don't only exist in America.

[chris08876]

^^^^^^^^

I would like to tell you how I handle some of these speech issues concerning minorities. First of all I say ‘black’. I say 'black’ because most black people prefer black. I don’t say 'people of colour’, because it’s dishonest. It means precisely the same thing as 'coloured people’, which is an insult. So if you’re not willing to say 'coloured people’, then you shouldn’t be willing to say 'people of colour’.

And besides, to me the whole idea of colour seems a bit specious really, I mean what should we call white people? 'People of no colour’? Isn’t pink a colour? And in fact, white people are not really white at all, they’re different shades of pink and olive and beige. In other words, they’re coloured. And black people are rarely black, I see various shades of brown and tan and in fact some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are, they’re dark brown but they’re considered white. May I see the colour chart please?

People of colour is an awkward phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. What should we call fat people - 'people of size’? I also don’t say 'african-american’, I find it cumbersome and confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? Egypt? Egypt is in Africa, but Egyptians aren’t black, they’re like the people in India, they’re dark-brown white people - but they’re Africans. So why wouldn’t an Egyptian who becomes a US citizen be called an african-american?

The same would apply to South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen, couldn’t he call himself an african-american, if for no other reason than just to bother black people. And what about a black person born in South Africa who becomes an American citizen, is he an african-american or is he a South African American? Or is he simply a South African American African-American?

It’s just so much more tedious liberal labelling. Liberals should be taught that labels divide people, and I think that we can do with fewer labels, not more.

- George Carlin

[jg6544]

Paul Williams was a very well-respected African American architect in Los Angeles. He worked in residential architecture. There are still many of his homes around and they command a premium price when they come on the market even today.

[hammersklavier]

Julian Abele was a black architect who designed some of Philly's most iconic buildings (the Free Library, the Art Museum, ...) ... and the entire Duke campus. Yes, that Duke.

It is surprising how few black architects there are.

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

If you're interested, I'd probably start by looking at demographics at architecture schools to see who gets enrolled.

I suspect already that blacks are not proportionately represented... I think it would be pretty racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups, so I think we just have to conclude that architecture programs systematically discriminate against African Americans.

Edit: I looked at Cornells demographics here. Blacks are only 5.8% of the accepted class while they are over 10% or so in the general population. I just lost a lot of respect for Cornell. You would think they would not discriminate so flagrantly, but here we are. Racism is not dead in America. Absolutely disgusting.

What's funny is you're half-right.

See, if the Ivies were truly equal-opportunity we'd all be crying foul because half of their student bodies would be Asian. All of the Ivies are actually guilty of strongly discriminating against Asian applicants precisely because they are world-renowned and Confucian cultures strongly value education -- more strongly than any other culture, like ever, globally. Ivy League schools' admissions departments work very, very, very hard to keep any one racial group from overwhelming student demographics.

It is also true that blacks have historically simply not applied to Ivy League schools to the same degree as any other racial group. This is probably in large part an effect of the systemic bias they face. But the subtle irony of this is, if you're a black kid applying to an Ivy League school, you're probably more than twice as likely to be accepted than if you're an Asian one.

[jg6544]

Did a bit of research; Paul Williams also designed the iconic theme building at LAX.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by chris08876

^^^^^^^^

I would like to tell you how I handle some of these speech issues concerning minorities. First of all I say ‘black’. I say 'black’ because most black people prefer black. I don’t say 'people of colour’, because it’s dishonest. It means precisely the same thing as 'coloured people’, which is an insult. So if you’re not willing to say 'coloured people’, then you shouldn’t be willing to say 'people of colour’.

And besides, to me the whole idea of colour seems a bit specious really, I mean what should we call white people? 'People of no colour’? Isn’t pink a colour? And in fact, white people are not really white at all, they’re different shades of pink and olive and beige. In other words, they’re coloured. And black people are rarely black, I see various shades of brown and tan and in fact some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are, they’re dark brown but they’re considered white. May I see the colour chart please?

People of colour is an awkward phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. What should we call fat people - 'people of size’? I also don’t say 'african-american’, I find it cumbersome and confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? Egypt? Egypt is in Africa, but Egyptians aren’t black, they’re like the people in India, they’re dark-brown white people - but they’re Africans. So why wouldn’t an Egyptian who becomes a US citizen be called an african-american?

The same would apply to South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen, couldn’t he call himself an african-american, if for no other reason than just to bother black people. And what about a black person born in South Africa who becomes an American citizen, is he an african-american or is he a South African American? Or is he simply a South African American African-American?

It’s just so much more tedious liberal labelling. Liberals should be taught that labels divide people, and I think that we can do with fewer labels, not more.

- George Carlin

Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are South African African Americans.

[Guiltyspark]

The strangest part of this conversation is the assumption that architects have to go to ivy league schools.

[chris08876]

You can't teach architecture in terms of design, kinda how you can't teach business. Either your creative, and can come up with good designs, savvy, good with people, and so on. And a little bit of luck. Luck is paramount in some cases.

The basics and concepts sure, but a true architect is a genius who blends concepts of art and history into designs. You can go to an IVY for architecture, but it doesn't mean your designs will hold water.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are South African African Americans.

That's prepostorous, but it's also true, and damned funny.

[scalziand]

Elon Musk is South African-American too.

[Busy Bee]

David Adjaye. Wildly skilled and inventive architect. British black man, but not an African American. Does he still count?

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

If you're interested, I'd probably start by looking at demographics at architecture schools to see who gets enrolled.

I suspect already that blacks are not proportionately represented... I think it would be pretty racist to imply that there are different career aspirations among different ethnic groups, so I think we just have to conclude that architecture programs systematically discriminate against African Americans.

Correlation does not imply causation, just like race-representation does not imply systematic discrimination.

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

There cannot be such a thing as 'whites under-represented'. If I take half your bread for 10 years, we're not 'even' because we start splitting it fairly today.

This is blatantly biased and representative of a backwards worldview that is solely focused on the past, because unless you are some kind of bigot, white underrepresentation at the ivy-league level is obviously an issue that should be discussed more often in public if the standards we judge our society upon is the equal representation and proportion of all races in higher education, which is clearly what you are doing.

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

And regarding an 'over-representation' of asians - why would this not indicate a pro-asian bias? If there were an 'over-representation' of whites, it would be obviously an example of racism. Why not the same for asians? 'Over-performing' asians do not deserve to get ahead at the expense of real minorities.

Your toxic attitude is pretty disgusting to be quite frank. You should focus on bettering the future instead of what constitutes "a real minority."

[chris08876]

^^^

She's what we call in the industry, a feminist! There's a nice double standard applied in the NSFW thread where she accuses us men of being veil and degrading women (in a NSFW thread mind you).


When it really should be about the context.

Originally Posted by Duffstuff129

Edit: I looked at Cornells demographics here. Blacks are only 5.8% of the accepted class while they are over 10% or so in the general population. I just lost a lot of respect for Cornell. You would think they would not discriminate so flagrantly, but here we are. Racism is not dead in America. Absolutely disgusting.

Cornell, like most IVY's, look for extremly high standards to get in. Its not just a matter of race, but performance. Thats like saying whites are discriminated by IVY's because Asians have a much better chance of getting in. Its about work ethic, grades, activities outside of school, recommendations, and so on . And.. they like diversity, so if your a minority who is stellar, you have a better chance then somebody of equal performance. Affirmative action does still occur.