Scam warning

[manny_santos]

One of those hot water heater companies that nobody has ever heard of has descended on London once again, with agents going door-to-door trying to push their way into your home to get you to sign a new contract that is over a decade long and has massive cancellation fees.

Watch out, and don't let these clowns into your home. They are not part of Enbridge or Direct Energy, and they're just out to screw you over.

[MolsonExport]

I hate this type of shit. I had somebody pretending to be with London Hydro, but offering me better rates, if only I would just give him my bill and sign "here". After coldly but politely saying no, no, no thanks, the guy kept at it. I then offered to tear him a new asshole if he did not immediately get the fuck off of my property (today, I would pull a Clint and say: "git off mah laaawwn!!")

[manny_santos]

Mind you, I work in door-to-door sales too, but I sell cable and Internet services for a regional provider that has a large number of existing customers. What irks me the most about National Home Services (NHS) is that they give legitimate salesmen like myself a bad name. What makes me legitimate?

- I provide a consulting service where customers are given an opportunity to compare their current services and pricing with my company's offerings
- There is no high-pressure sales; if the customer isn't interested, I leave
- The customer doesn't need to sign up at the door; they can take information and if they're interested at a later date they can call me
- I do not knock on doors with 'no soliciting' signs
- We do not lock any of our customers into contracts. If they sign up, they can cancel at any time without any penalty.
- I have helped certain customers save a lot of money by optimizing their service subscriptions to their needs at the best available price. I once saved an unemployed father $80/month, something he really appreciated for his family.

My educational background is in marketing and business administration, and as such I take my sales job very seriously, especially as I'm aware of scams like NHS and some of the door-to-door water testing that has been going on recently in both London and Kingston. I don't sell anything to anyone that they don't need. There is no need for the abusive, manipulative tactics used by certain companies.

The unfortunate result of companies like NHS is that consumers are more paranoid than ever before about salespeople at the door, and I can't blame them. What this means though is that people who put up 'no soliciting' signs miss out on good deals from legitimate companies. For my company's part, we have introductory deals that are only available through the door-to-door sales reps, although one can call one of these reps at a later date to get the same deals. One simply can't get these deals from our website or by calling the main company phone number.

[FazDeH]

These guys came to my house in Byron Friday, One was wearing a dress shirt, had a badge, but was not the sort I felt comfortable letting in my place, the other? was.. well he didn't even look the part, baggy jean shorts with his boxers hangin' out... I was told he was in "training" yeah... ok bud. Anyways. These guys are going around and were very tenacious. So yes please be aware folks. The best part? After I went in they sat on my porch and smoked for 5 minutes until I came out again suggesting it was in their best interest to leave the property. Ridiculous.

[Wharn]

These guys already came by my house near Windermere and Adelaide sometime back in February. The salesman was annoying, and even after I told him that I don't control the water heater contracts (my landlord does), he still kept hammering away. Eventually I just had to repeat the whole "not able nor interested" spiel and close the door. At the time it didn't seem like a scam, but then about a week later I got a call from Reliance telling me to be on the lookout for "aggressive marketers" as they had "targeted" my complex. Must be pretty serious when the utility company actually bothers to call you instead of just mailing out pamphlets.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Mind you, I work in door-to-door sales too

I feel for you. My first job was cold-calling, I absolutely fucking hated it. Not because of the pay, just because people were such friggin' assholes. Why was everyone so mean? Part of it had to do with the fact that they were Torontonians and assholes to begin with, but also because they were tired of being bothered by previous sleazebags trying to push a scam, and so I suppose they just started to act hostile to all cold-callers. What does your company offer, by the way?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I feel for you. My first job was cold-calling, I absolutely fucking hated it. Not because of the pay, just because people were such friggin' assholes. Why was everyone so mean? Part of it had to do with the fact that they were Torontonians and assholes to begin with, but also because they were tired of being bothered by previous sleazebags trying to push a scam, and so I suppose they just started to act hostile to all cold-callers. What does your company offer, by the way?

I can't discuss specifics online, but I work in the telecommunications industry. Some of the people we call on are existing customers who may be interested in additional services.

Sure enough though, I was up in a community in Midwestern Ontario today, and the whole village I was in has taken a stand against door-to-door sales of any kind. According to one resident, several "energy companies" going door-to-door have caused major problems in that community, leaving residents paranoid. One rep even threatened to kick this resident's dog if they couldn't get in to look at their water heater. We gave up on that community after less than two hours and moved on to another one, where things went much better. The sad thing is, some of the residents in the first community may not know what they're missing out on, and they just assume that we're a fly-by-night high-pressure sales force trying to force them into some lengthy contract. We're not. We're just out trying to help people, not swindle them.

It's a lose-lose situation for consumers, as they get swindled by fly-by-night energy companies, but then they get screwed by not being able to receive the best offers from the companies they do deal with. Perhaps it is time for Ontario to regulate door-to-door salespeople, requiring permits.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Sure enough though, I was up in a community in Midwestern Ontario today, and the whole village I was in has taken a stand against door-to-door sales of any kind. According to one resident, several "energy companies" going door-to-door have caused major problems in that community, leaving residents paranoid. One rep even threatened to kick this resident's dog if they couldn't get in to look at their water heater.

If it's true and not just the resident spouting bullshit, then that would be the worst I've heard of so far. Even if the rep was a scammer they were pretty friggin' stupid, you don't get sales by threatening to harm peoples' pets and property.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Another scam to be careful of is telemarketers calling your home saying they detected a virus on your computer. They tried to do pull this shit with my mom, but she does;t have a computer at her home.

They were spouting some bullshit that she needed to go to some site and use her credit card to get the anti-virus program for it. That a serious virus had infected her system and she needed to go on urgently. Once she told them she didn't own a computer and saw thru their bullshit they made it seem like they called the wrong number.

It was in the LFP too, stupid scammers!

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

If it's true and not just the resident spouting bullshit, then that would be the worst I've heard of so far. Even if the rep was a scammer they were pretty friggin' stupid, you don't get sales by threatening to harm peoples' pets and property.

I believe her, as she was one of the few in town interested in what I was selling.

[MolsonExport]

I hate, mind you I really hate, those energy remarketers.

http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electri...ts-03f21.phtml

Direct Energy sees itself as a world leader in customer service.

The company promised as much in 2002 when Direct Energy and its owner, British-based utility giant Centrica, announced plans for a major expansion in Alberta.

"You will find us every day striving to provide world-class customer service," said Paul Massara, vice-president of Centrica's North American operations. "At the end of the day, that's our business model."

Can you believe this utter horseshit?

Direct Energy Part Two: "Get the hell off my porch"
Door-to-door agents were told they would make a lot of money -- quick. Telemarketers were instructed to "disarm" homeowners with small talk, such as chatting about the weather. Consumers were not impressed.


...

But the way those contracts have been marketed has been questioned. Throughout its door-to-door sales scripts in Ontario, there was a focus on getting homeowners to produce copies of their old utility bills.

If a consumer said they wanted to wait and check out other offers before signing up, an agent was to respond by asking for the bill.

"You can continue to pay more for your electricity with no price guarantee or you can register now, pay less and have price protection that will last for five years," the scripts say. "All you need to start is one of your recent electricity bills, could you get one now please?"

Should a consumer mention they're satisfied with their current electricity or gas provider, agents would use a similar response. "Your local electric company will continue to serve and bill you as always. Direct Energy just makes sure you pay the best price. All you need to start is one of your recent electricity bills," agents were told to say. "Could you get one now please?"

In all, the Direct Energy's sales scripts provided agents with 17 different doorstep scenarios. Of those, 15 responses instructed agents to ask the customer to produce their utility bill. Showing the paperwork, consumers were told, helps the agent point out certain lines on the page where the customer could save money. However, many consumers who produced their bills were surprised and angered when they later became customers of Direct Energy, although they hadn't signed a contract.

Listed on the bills was confidential information, such as account numbers and data on energy consumption, as well as addresses and names.

"Think of the information on your utility bill like your credit card statement," said Tom Adams, head of Ontario consumer watchdog Energy Probe. "You wouldn't go around showing your credit card number to people."


http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electri...ch204e16.phtml

[manny_santos]

Stories like this reaffirm my belief that some industries are not meant to be privatized, and must be entirely administered by the government or at least be heavily regulated.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Another scam to be careful of is telemarketers calling your home saying they detected a virus on your computer. They tried to do pull this shit with my mom, but she does;t have a computer at her home.

They were spouting some bullshit that she needed to go to some site and use her credit card to get the anti-virus program for it. That a serious virus had infected her system and she needed to go on urgently. Once she told them she didn't own a computer and saw thru their bullshit they made it seem like they called the wrong number.

It was in the LFP too, stupid scammers!

I got this one too. Thing is I haven't had a virus since the days of Windows 98, mostly because I take basic precautionary steps to avoid them (ie don't be Computer-Retarded). Basically just responded with "you're full of shit and I know it." The guy (sounded like he was from India) went into a fit of rage telling me how I "don't know anything", probably pissed that his scam was failing.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Stories like this reaffirm my belief that some industries are not meant to be privatized, and must be entirely administered by the government or at least be heavily regulated.

Careful what you wish for. Of all the utilities I have to deal with, London Hydro is easily the slowest and most apathetic. All the privatized providers (Teksavvy for internet, Union Gas, Reliance) are way faster to respond to problems and don't need half a dozen follow-up calls just to get a work order. As far as regulation goes, the telecommunications industry is heavily regulated to prevent foreign competition and promote "Canadian Content"... and both Bell and Rogers manage to be more infuriating that just about any other utility. If the internet infrastructure was owned by the government it would be even worse than it is now since there would be no profit motive encouraging them to expand capacity. Even friggin' Bell makes network investments from time to time, doubt the gubmnt would do the same.

[MolsonExport]

I had an extremely unfriendly visit from National Home Services (re: Hot water heater). Despite my "no solicitation" signage.
Me:Thank you, I am not interested.
Him: what, you don't even know what I am about to tell you.
Me: I don't care, I don't do business this way.
Him: What way? Aren't you concerned that Reliance was bought out by an American firm?
Me: Look, I told you, I am not interested.
Him: You are not interested in saving a lot of money?
Me: I don't want what you are selling. Look, I am a marketing professor and I know a thing or two. So quit the hard sell, it just makes me angry.
Him: What hard sell? You didn't even see what I got here.
Me: I ALREADY TOLD YOU. I AM NOT INTERESTED. I DON'T DO BUSINESS THIS WAY.
Him: You don't even know what I am going to say.
Me: I don't care. PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
Him: No, you didn't give me a chance to say what I have to say.
Me: GET OUT OF HERE NOW. I ALREADY TOLD YOU I DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH DOOR TO DOOR SALESPEOPLE. (try closing the door again, but he moves forward aggressively).
Him: Neither do I; I usually go basement to basement.
Me: WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET YOU TO LEAVE? (now I am on my stoop, bellowing, and I am about 3 seconds away from completely blowing my stack and beating the living shit out of the fucking asshole...my wife comes behind me and tries shutting the door....I swear to God, if my kids weren't there, I might have belted him good).

[MolsonExport]

Horror stories about National Home Service aplenty here:
http://www.burnedatthedoor.com/have-your-say.php

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I had an extremely unfriendly visit from National Home Services

I had those fine folks pay me a visit about a month ago, and that was the second time in 6 months. They immediately went for the jugular by asking for a copy of my latest bill in the opening sentence or two.

I found that telling them that I just had a new heater installed shuts them down immediately and they give up right there.

[flar]

I have a no solicitation sign up at the door. A few years ago, I was watching the Sopranos when I heard a knock at the door. Being angry at the interruption and influenced by the show at the moment, I did exactly what Tony Soprano would have done short of slamming the poor guy's head of the door frame and pushing him down the stairs. "You see that sign there? You see what it says? What's it say? Read the fvcking sign!" I really felt sorry for the guy after he left in fear. My wife was completely shocked. I don't even know what the poor guy was selling.

I try to go easier on them these days.

[MolsonExport]

I am still steaming from the bullshit that I had to put up with last night. I cannot believe that these assholes can get away with these tactics. Without a doubt, the most aggressive, dishonest, unprofessional, and disrespectful salesmanship I have ever encountered in my 41 years, and in my capacity as a marketing professor.

[manny_santos]

I hear ya MolsonExport. My educational background is in marketing and this type of sales tactic is uncalled for.

I have no problem with door-to-door sales, and of course that's what I was doing for the past four months until I got laid off. My parents don't normally like door-to-door salespeople, although my mother always opens her purse to give money to certain charities she chooses to support that come to the door.

What NHS is doing should be illegal.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am still steaming from the bullshit that I had to put up with last night. I cannot believe that these assholes can get away with these tactics. Without a doubt, the most aggressive, dishonest, unprofessional, and disrespectful salesmanship I have ever encountered in my 41 years, and in my capacity as a marketing professor.

Marketing Professor? I... I might know you IRL O_o

For the longest time I suspected that you may have been Professor Sancton in the Local Government wing of the Polisci department

On the topic at hand, I came back to my house after a summer in the [self-proclaimed] Imperial Capital and found at least 10 of their flyers stuffed in my mailbox... if the person fails to answer the door, do they just spam them?

[MolsonExport]

I know Prof. Andy Sancton. Evidently, I am not him. I enjoy some anonymity 'round these parts. I can speak more freely. I spend my days programming and wordsmithing my thoughts; I'd rather be an average joe here.