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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 1:31 AM
djlx2 djlx2 is offline
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WTC as a Complex

I'm not the most active user on SSP, but I've read many of the threads on here, and it seems like the WTC site is the one that users are most interested in (outside of what seem like semi-silly debates about changing the layout of the site). I'm kind of interested in how people envision the site not just in terms of how the buildings look under construction or their projected height and progress, but as far as the meaning of each one as part of what would be an active complex, their separate meaning as individual buildings and how the different buildings will ideally fit together because of that.

I know the focus here is mostly on the architectural design and how that fits into a city landscape, but I guess I wonder what people take out of the site as far as dynamic between the construction projects, or what people look for when studying the buildings as unique entities within a multi-building site. What having this eight-building complex (or seven, depending on if WTC 5 happens) in this location, will mean to New York, and how it should be seen to those who are not quite there.

Hope this isn't too vague of a topic, but it would be interesting to hear opinions on that, since there's so much discussion of the construction itself.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 2:40 AM
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Well many people argue about the fact of the old and new plans. Some people don't really like the new concept of the WTC, but some do, and as you can see there would always be conflict which is normal for any project, but you do see a lot of differences in the old and the new WTC. This is the reason for most of the conflicts that are going on. It also would include the design and engineering differences.

Old WTC.

Old WTC Mall.

Old WTC Site Plan.

New WTC Site Plan.

New WTC.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 3:16 AM
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You know, the more I think about it, the more the old WTC site looks more and more like your typical 1960s "new urbanism" design -- huge tracts of land disrupting vehicular flow with uninspiring architecture. I must admit the Twin Towers weren't much to look at. What they stood for and represented was more important than their appearance. It seemed kind of detatched from the rest of Lower Manhattan from an urban planning standpoint.

Plus, this new design really is growing on me. Sure, it would've been neat to see the Twins rebuilt, in some form or another, but we have what we have, and it's a ton of office space replacing what was lost. It's a hell of a lot better than that twisted piece of architectural garbage they initially proposed.

As I see pics of this thing (One World Trade Center) ascending into the sky, I am getting excited and cannot wait for its completion. Two WTC will be quite remarkable as well when it is completed. As I see the renderings with the existing skyline as a backdrop, in addition to the restored street grid, I see a very nice blend of architecture about to take place.

Call me asinine, but that's my 2 cents.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
You know, the more I think about it, the more the old WTC site looks more and more like your typical 1960s "new urbanism" design -- huge tracts of land disrupting vehicular flow with uninspiring architecture. I must admit the Twin Towers weren't much to look at. What they stood for and represented was more important than their appearance. It seemed kind of detatched from the rest of Lower Manhattan from an urban planning standpoint.

Plus, this new design really is growing on me. Sure, it would've been neat to see the Twins rebuilt, in some form or another, but we have what we have, and it's a ton of office space replacing what was lost. It's a hell of a lot better than that twisted piece of architectural garbage they initially proposed.

As I see pics of this thing (One World Trade Center) ascending into the sky, I am getting excited and cannot wait for its completion. Two WTC will be quite remarkable as well when it is completed. As I see the renderings with the existing skyline as a backdrop, in addition to the restored street grid, I see a very nice blend of architecture about to take place.

Call me asinine, but that's my 2 cents.
That is exactly what the original WTC complex was, personally I did like the architecture of the towers and the reasoning for the thin windows. But then again I am a huge fan of Minoru Yamasaki, although I will say the WTC towers was not his best work, it was just the biggest version of a tower that he designed in Seattle which is much more beautiful.

As for the new complex, the new Tower One isn't really doing anything for me, it is basically just gonna be a tall glass office building, but I am really liking the design for Tower Two which will probably become my favorite within the complex. Personally I can't wait to see this area back up and running again. I will say I was impressive with how fast the towers are finally starting to go up.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 7:02 PM
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It's nice to see how the old WTC Towers gleams in this image.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2011, 11:22 PM
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I've had an epiphany about the original WTC - it belonged in LA at 80% the size. Not sure how I feel about that, but it seems clear enough now that I realize it.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 1:47 AM
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Troubadour View Post
I've had an epiphany about the original WTC - it belonged in LA at 80% the size.
That's close to the size Yamasaki wanted them to be...
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:28 AM
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Ahem...getting to the actual question asked rather than reminiscing about what's gone (BTW, the place to do that is here).

My opinion is quite similar to that of Urbanlife and I'm just really excited about seeing towers of that size rise on the site. Still, I think that my personal favorite (depending on the final cladding product) will be 4WTC. To me it's actually the hardest building to pull off in terms of pure design (which is also why it could easily become the most disappointing). 2&3WTC are great and interesting designs, but they look like they belong in London rather than NYC. 1WTC is a huge tower, but tremendously restrained and uninteresting to me. In that vein it isn't much different than the originals, but Yamasaki's details and design vocabulary were fascinating in their subtlety. I don't know if I would put Childs in that same category.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 4:34 AM
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I also agree that Yamasaki had some good tastes. The Twin Towers of the World Trade Center is what inspired me to take a future career in architecture and potentially civil engineering. Although they are gone I still have old memories of them, and those will never go away. The terrorists may have had destroyed them but they still live in my heart. There was something I loved in the Twin Towers. They were special. Of course they weren't the greatest looking buildings, and not everyone still has a good outlook on their looks, but to me those buildings were special. I view them in a way as an architect would. I saw it as a fabric and a child of architecture, and what the terrorists did vandalized the city.

However to me the new World Trade Center Towers including the Freedom Tower (One World Trade Center) is extremely unique. It is quite a good demonstration of modern 21st Century engineering and architecture, and I don't think it should be ignored. I actually do want to see this building along with every other building on the World Trade Center to be completed to fill that former hole in our skyline. Hopefully 1 WTC would be able to fill in the jobs of the former WTC Twin Towers, and finally show the world that we have had recovered, that we would stand up to our enemies, and that we are back in business as people come back to work in Lower Manhattan, and take jobs where people in the Twin Towers have had taken before.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 2:46 PM
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Jonboy summed it up pretty well.

But to add a little more, the old complex, really the plaza in particular, seemed to resist any sort of interaction with the surrounding area. I don't know how many people worked in the twins, but they were at around 99% capacity when destroyed, but whenever you went to the plaza it felt empty, cold, and sort of lonesome. You could've never guessed that thousands of people were working right above you.

With that in mind, the most exciting thing for me is going to be the park and feeling at street level. With skyscrapers surrounding the park in every direction, restaurants, and stores at the ground level, instead of underground, it's really going to feel like you are in a complex worthy of its name.

Architecturally speaking, I may be in the minority here, but I pretty much love every building. 1 is simple, soars, and dominates everything around it, like it should. 2 and 3 are insanely beautiful, each in their right. And 4 is simple, but has subtle details that make it much more than just a glass box and yet doesn't detract from 1, 2, and 3.

I truly believe it will be one of the best, if not the best urban space on the planet. And I can not wait until I can go downtown to the trade center and not see anymore cranes.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2011, 9:38 PM
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To tell you the truth during the pinnacle of working hours the original World Trade Center had 50,000 people working in it. There would be another 200,000 people that would go shopping at the World Trade Center, and tourists that would be visiting the observation deck. That's why it was better the buildings were destroyed in the early morning hours. Not much people were working in them. If it was late afternoon there would have had been lots of casualties.
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
It's nice to see how the old WTC Towers gleams in this image.
You have no idea how hard it is to recreate that kind of material. However, one doesn't realize right away how reflective anodized aluminum can be.



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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 5:11 PM
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I'm really glad that they are rebuilding the WTC and that they dumped the hideous building Libeskind wanted to build there. The new complex is beautyfull, but by far not as beautyfull as the old one was. Something is missing there. The Freedom Tower is being built to replace the old North Tower. Additional buildings have been made there to give support to the Freedom Tower, but something is still missing. There is no replacement for the old South Tower. And that is a huge flaw, which renders this complex unworthy of the name World Trade Center. Because of this, the complex fails to be iconic, fails to be impressive, and fails to dominate the skyline. The old WTC was an icon, but the new WTC is just a bunch of very good looking office skyscrapers.

The old WTC, together with the Willis Tower were the most beautyfull structures to be ever constructed on Earth. I agree with Donald Trump and Ken Gardner that the Twins should have been rebuilt and I am very sad that this isn't the case. This new complex is incomplete and symbolizes only a partial recovery. It literally shouts "2 down, 1 rebuilt, let's call it a draw". And because of that it doesn't heal the 9/11 scars, it only makes the whole world see them. Therefore I view this complex as a symbol of defeat and weakness.

But now what I think about the buildings themselves, well here it goes:

1WTC - This is an extremely beautyfull builging, it is imposing and it perfectly replaces the old North Tower. This building really deserves to be the king of the site.

2WTC - A beautyfull building that is really unique. With it's diamonds I would compare it to the Shanghai World Financial Center. They both have something unique on them, yet most of them is still rather classic.

3WTC - A beautyfull and very simplistic building. But in it's simplicity it is beautyfull and it earns the place in the new World Trade Center.

4WTC - A rather boring building that is way to small to be of any importance in the skyline. The World Financial Center, while being short too, is still at least recognizable by it's funny roofs. The 4WTC, however, is just a boring building hidden by the other buildings there.

7WTC - Basicly the same as 4WTC only worse, because it's even smaller.

There ya go, my opinion about the new complex. While I think it is a very good complex, it is incomplete and insufficient to replace the old WTC.
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 6:26 PM
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The correct spelling is "beautiful" not "beautyfull." Does your computer not have spell check? The red line under a word means it is misspelled.
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 6:42 PM
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The correct spelling is "beautiful" not "beautyfull." Does your computer not have spell check? The red line under a word means it is misspelled.
LMAO, you're a true Grammar Nazi
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 7:03 PM
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LMAO, you're a true Grammar Nazi
Yeah, because spelling errors make people sound stupid, you wouldn't want spelling errors in a resume for the same reason, so it wouldn't kill you to proof read what you are about to post. The random error is fine, but when it is a word being used over and over incorrectly, then it just becomes annoying.
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 7:31 PM
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Man, I don't have that much time so that I could re-read everything I'll write
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 7:34 PM
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Old Posted Jun 7, 2011, 8:01 PM
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4WTC - A rather boring building that is way to small to be of any importance in the skyline. The World Financial Center, while being short too, is still at least recognizable by it's funny roofs. The 4WTC, however, is just a boring building hidden by the other buildings there.

7WTC - Basicly the same as 4WTC only worse, because it's even smaller.
Do you realize how big 975 feet is? 4 WTC would tower over lower manhattan by itself, because its roof is higher then anything else down there. Granted its a minimal design that requires other buildings to be built around it to be understood, but just don't diminish the height of the building. The fact is every building works with its surroundings. Without the original WTC the WFC looks extremely bulky and out of scale with the rest of lower manhattan. Sure they are 650-750 foot towers, but they certainly don't look the part. 4 WTC is going to be over 200 feet taller then the tallest WFC building, so its impact will be extremely great.

As for 7 WTC, its taller then its predecessor, and it restores Greenwich Street, a win win in my book, not to mention its a great looking building. Don't underestimate the restoration of greenwich street. As it is the WTC is a giant block in the city. The area south of the WTC is almost dead, and with the skybridges and tight spaces today, the WTC is really a hinderance in its superblock form.
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