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  #1  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 3:36 PM
NumberFive NumberFive is offline
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DSLR Advice

I figured there are enough good photographers that are part of this forum that this could be a good place to ask for advice.

My wife wants us to take the next step and upgrade from our P&S to a DSLR, especially prior to going on a major holiday we've booked in the spring of next year so that she can take some much better pictures. I've looked around a bit, done a little research. Seems to in a lot of cases narrow down to the Nikon D90 vs the Canon Rebel Ti, with different stores giving different opinions on which one has the edge.

Can anybody here give their advice on one vs the other? Or to take a completely different route all-together?

Appreciate any info I can get.
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Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 5:34 PM
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I'm a relative newbie to the DSLR thing, got mine a few months back.

Here is what I have:

Canon EOS Rebel XSI (also known as the EOS 450D)

Lenses:

-Canon EFS 18-55mm IS (Image Stabilizer). This is the lens the camera came with.
-Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM

I've found the Canon very easy to get used to coming from P&S cameras (I had a Canon Powershot SD870 IS), and after a few months find myself trying out more and more of the functions available. I guess it is worth noting that I have had no issues with it either since I started shooting with it.
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Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 6:53 PM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
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The T1i has the edge in the video department (1080p/20 or 720p/30 vs 720p/30) but neither are particularly good at it mainly because there's no autofocus. Beyond that it's a matter of ergonomics, if you've already got leftovers from an older camera (Sounds like you don't) and, often overlooked, is the cost of upgrading lenses in the future. Canon has lenses that Nikon doesn't, and vice versa. Which exclusive lenses you want is up to you, and can play into your decision.

I'd personally go for the T1i, but even over that I'd go for a used 40D or similar. Most of my photo equipment is used, and it's all fine. My 1D II cost less than a T1i, then again it's a very advanced camera with no fully automatic mode.

My overall advice is to narrow down what traits are most important to you and to essentially prepare yourself for your what you plan on doing with your equipment.
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Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 7:46 PM
Ferreth Ferreth is offline
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I just got the Canon Rebel T1i and I love it. I previously had a 1st Generation Digital Rebel, and previous to that, film bodies from Canon, so I speak from a Canon expertise with a general knowledge of Nikons.

Some general advice - you can't go wrong with Canon or Nikon. Buying either system gives you access to a large range of lenses, on top of which the better lenses have great resale value. You can also rent gear if you are considering a particularly expensive lens purchase. One of the main points of buying an SLR is to have access to these lenses, so you want to buy one of the systems that makes a full set of lenses. If you are already using a P&S from Canon, you will find the Canon SLR's easier to move to. I'm not sure if the same applies in the Nikon line. You will find that an SLR gives you two things over a P&S, quality, and less thought about - speed. Trying to catch a squirrel on the ground? Baby crawling? Funny tourist moment? You will have more success with an SLR because it does everything so much faster.

If this is your first SLR, I would *not* spend big dollars on a body. Buy an extra lens and in three years time then you may want to consider spending more money on a semi-pro body when you know what you want from experience with your first camera. The more expensive bodies are also bigger. You'll be traveling, so you want a smaller body. Forget about mega pixels. It doesn't matter anymore if a camera has 10MP or 15MP. What matters is ergonomics, speed, low light performance, and preview quality. You need to be able to get a good preview to decide if you need to adjust your settings. You want good low light performance so you don't need a tripod to take that twilight scene in. Ergonomics is a very personal thing, and frankly, you won't be able to get a total handle on that just playing with the camera in the store. My opinion is that most people end up with Canon or Nikon based on that first impression in the store, and never look back after that because they get used to that system. I know I'm like that.

I'm quoting prices looked up today from The Camera Store. Generally they have the best prices in Calgary - I cannot vouch for their service, as I buy my gear at Robinson's Camera - they match prices.

In considering the Canon line, you are looking at the Rebel line. The XS with 18-55mm IS, is $540 and makes a fine first SLR. It's downside is that it's a previous generation sensor, and is not as good for low light noise, and the display screen is not as nice as the newer cameras. The next step up is the XSi, $700 with the 18-55mm IS. It's last year's model and compared to the XS, has a bigger preview screen, and slightly improved sensor. The latest rebel is the T1i at $990. The sensor is again slightly improved, with a better preview screen (a full mega pixel, very nice preview quality). If you would like to do some video with your SLR, this is the first model that can do that. Personally, if I was on a limited budget, I would get the XS and use the $450 towards a better second lens. If you really want video and like that great preview screen, go whole hog up to the T1i.

In trying to decide which Nikon to get, read the recommended camera article by Ken Rockwell. His site convinced me I had to get a wide-angle lens this time around. I will only add that for travel, I would take a close look at the D5000 with the flip down preview screen. With live view (preview on the screen rather than the viewfinder) and the screen tilted down, I can hold the camera over top of a crowd to get shots I normally wouldn't get. I totally miss this feature from my days of shooting with a Canon G2.

In considering my purchase of the Canon T1i, I spent about 10 times the amount of time considering lenses over considering the camera body. If you are going to consider Sigma and Tamron 3rd party lenses along with the brand name lenses, you have even more to consider.

First the "kit lens" The Canon 18-55mm IS is a perfectly good lens. Nikon makes something similar, and I've heard good things about that. The days of kit lenses being garbage are gone - I consider them to be about mid-level these days. You'll want IS (Canon) or VR (Nikon) as it steadys the shakes that blur photos shot in low light. You may already have this on your P&S in fact. Since you'll be traveling, you will appreciate the kit lens light weight, and the IS will help you get more photos of non-moving subjects in low light. On top of all that, the kit lens is a bargain, for Canon at least, it adds $100 to the price of the camera - you will never buy a lens that cheap again.

If you decide you want to take another lens along, you can go one of two ways: one would be to ditch the kit lens and get something with a wider range like a 18-200 IS ($663, The Camera Store). It's a pretty common option as a one lens does it all option. You pay a price though in that the quality will not be as good, the speed not as fast and low light performance about the same as the kit lens. Keep in mind though, when I say the quality will not be as good - it will still run circles around your P&S. For travel, not switching lenses means more time concentrating on taking pictures.

If you go with multiple lenses, consider the following - what you pick will depend on what kind of photos you like to take. Also consider that once you decide to spend big $ on lenses, you are really committed to a system, since selling all that and switching will cost you.

Wide angle zoom - Canon 10-22mm If you want dramatic scenery and building shots, this is the lens to get. I own this lens and so far have used it to great effect shooting downtown - not cheap at $995. Sigma makes a similar lens for slightly cheaper at $700. You will find yourself challenged with this lens - ultra-wide angle takes some getting use to.

Are you going to be shooting animals at a zoo, or not too far away in the wild? Want a dramatic sunset shot? Isolate detail in buildings? Compress the foreground and background? You want a tele-photo lens. The sky is the limit in terms of what you can spend here. You will want something lighter for travel. In the Canon line, I suggest the 70-300mm F4-5.6 IS ($798), being used here on this forum with great results. It's still relatively light and will out-perform the 18-200mm lenses at the ranges it overlaps. I'm going to recommend you stay away from the 55-250mm F4-5.6 ($350), despite it's low price. I'd rather get an all-in-one 18-200mm at that point and not worry about switching lenses as the quality difference is not great enough to bother in my opinion.

I spent about three months doing research before I purchased my gear. I wrote up a blog post about the sites I used to research my purchase decision, read it here.
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  #5  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 8:55 PM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
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I'd recommend the Sigma 10-20 over the Canon 10-22. The difference between 20mm and 22mm isn't worth the hundreds extra you'll pay, and Sigma has a much longer warranty to boot.

I've got a Sigma 18-200 OS that's been collecting dust lately, PM me if you're interested, (Canon mount) I don't want to turn this thread into a classified.

Check photoprice.ca for fairly decent comparisons (They leave out some shops) and look through Craigslist or Kijiji if you're going used.
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Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 11:26 PM
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Skip Canikon and go with Olympus. They pioneered two major features now in common use on dSLRs (dust removal and live view) and their bodies tend to be more full featured than Canikons of the same price. Be different and go with the E620 - and then you'll also get a folding, swivelling screen AND in-body image stabilization (so ANY lens you use will be image stabilized), two important features neither the Rebel nor the D90 offer. Plus, Olympus dSLRs are smaller and lighter than the competition (mainly as they were designed from the ground up to be digital) and so are more easily carried around.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 12:59 AM
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Well I think it's safe to say that Ferreth has gone above and beyond the call of duty with his well in depth reply.

So I'll just add that I'm in the Canon camp as well. I just recently bought the Canon Rebel T1i. Fantastic camera, and I'm very happy with it. All though The Chemist tweaked an interest in Olympus.

The nice thing about Canon is that because it's so popular there's tons of used gear available on the internet. I've even seen 1 or 2 T1i's already for sale.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 5:01 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread NumberFive.

I was wondering what the general consensus is with regards to HDR processing? I've been fooling around with it during this past week and I can see where it has some merit.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 5:21 AM
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I am a Nikon guy to a fault... When I shot film, I shot Nikon.

When the first DSLR's came out I was NOT impressed what so ever, the insane price tag and un-proven technology.
I decided to wait and purchased other digital cameras until I was satisfied with the build quality and features that the DLSR finally had to offer the consumer.

Now that I upgraded to a Nikon DSLR back in 2007, I'm happy that I did.
Either way, Canon or Nikon are both highly regarded and have a plethora of lenses to choose from.

I shoot with a D80 with these lenses.
Nikkor 18-200mm VR
Nikkor 50mm F/1.8
Nikkor 80-200mm F/2.8 AF-S
Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8
Tamron 90mm F/2.8

As others have mentioned, save on the body and buy faster glass.
I have taken over 20,000 shots with my D80 and she's still going strong.

RE: HDR
I am not a fan. It's generally over saturated cartoonie crap. It's typically way over done and I do not consider it a photograph anymore.

I do have some contacts that produce marvelous art using HDR, however those HDR images that please my eye are generally not over done and could still pass for a photograph.

There is a time and place for HDR, however this guy has and will not ever bother. I'm not really big into post processing, generally an Auto Stitch, crop and a re-size.
The odd B&W conversion, straighten and the odd colour tweak, but that doesn't happen very often.

I'd rather be shooting than sitting on the computer post processing.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 1:48 PM
NumberFive NumberFive is offline
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Thanks for all the great info everybody... so much to consider! However, general consensus appears to be that I won't go wrong with the Canon T1i. However, I will look into the Olympus as well!
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regulator75 View Post
RE: HDR
I am not a fan. It's generally over saturated cartoonie crap. It's typically way over done and I do not consider it a photograph anymore.

I do have some contacts that produce marvelous art using HDR, however those HDR images that please my eye are generally not over done and could still pass for a photograph.

There is a time and place for HDR, however this guy has and will not ever bother. I'm not really big into post processing, generally an Auto Stitch, crop and a re-size.
The odd B&W conversion, straighten and the odd colour tweak, but that doesn't happen very often.

I'd rather be shooting than sitting on the computer post processing.
I hear you. I was originally blown away the first time I saw an HDR photo. I think it was by Stuck in Customs. I still like some of his stuff, but after awhile the cartoonishy look does get a bit tiring. I've attempted 1 so far and turned out ok. However the top edge of the building seems a bit wonky. Converting the image from .psd to jpg seemed to have skewed it

I've been keeping my post processing to a minimum as well, as I'm a bit of a purist. However, the more I dabble in it the more fun I have. It appeals to my inner geek and it's nice to use my macs for something besides surfing.

Here's my first and only attempt at HDR so far:
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 4:55 PM
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I'm very much like Regulator and Ramsayfarian for post processing, just some cropping, colour tweaking (with auto correct if it works right), perhaps try to level it out a bit and I'm done.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 5:51 PM
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I never find autocorrect giving me the image that I want.

I tend to use Lightroom to process and typically just adjust lighting levels and colors. Sometimes I will go deeper and adjust individual colors
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian View Post
Here's my first and only attempt at HDR so far:
To me, this looks a bit over exposed. I'd try bumping the darks / blacks a bit.
A little more contrast would help a bit. IMO.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHeadstone View Post
I never find autocorrect giving me the image that I want.
That was my experience as well, however I have found it to be giving me some good results as of late. But if it is acting wonky (like trying to make my clouds purple) then I get in there and adjust manually.

I just hate wasting a bunch of time tweaking them when I could be uploading the shots and sharing them with everyone!
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 8:08 PM
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The curves feature in PS is an amazing tool, try this instead of Auto anything.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regulator75 View Post
To me, this looks a bit over exposed. I'd try bumping the darks / blacks a bit.
A little more contrast would help a bit. IMO.
I think you're right. As luck has it, I just bought the latest Practical Photography magazine and it has a tutorial on using curves to adjust contrast.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 8:29 PM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
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Are you tone-mapping as well as merging into HDR? The changes of only merging the images will be minimal.

I also read that using curves is slightly destructive to the image itself, most notably in smooth gradients. I don't know if this is true or not but I find myself using levels first and very gentle curves later.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vascilli View Post
Are you tone-mapping as well as merging into HDR? The changes of only merging the images will be minimal.

I also read that using curves is slightly destructive to the image itself, most notably in smooth gradients. I don't know if this is true or not but I find myself using levels first and very gentle curves later.
No, I'm just merging into HDR. I'll see what I can find on tone-mapping and give it a try.

I haven't heard that about curves, but I've only known about it for about 20 hours now. The article in Practical Photography claims that Curves is "the ultimate professional tool".

Anyhow, I recommond Practical Photography those of us who are newbies to DSLR, it's a British mag, so it cost a bit more, but well worth it. This month's issue covers HDR, Summar landscapes, shutter speed tips, curves and compares the new Rebel to Nikon's D5000.
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Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 10:43 PM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
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Curves are awful fun. They're the fast track to smoothly increase contrast. Levels on the other hand will give you some control on the overall "brightness" of the picture, which is why I use both. (I sometimes use levels to do colour correction)
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