HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > General Discussion


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 9:21 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Rain water tax

City eyes rain water tax

July 23, 2009
Nicole MacIntyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/605590

Hamilton is looking to tax rain water — but it won’t be Mother Nature getting the bill.

Instead, the city wants to target expansive parking lots and big box stores that send storm water rushing into the sewers without helping to pay for treatment costs.

“It’s all about fairness,” explains Jim Harnum, head of the city’s water and waste water department.

“We’re trying to shift responsibility.”

For several years homeowners have seen their water consumption decline, largely because of increased rain, but their bills continue to rise.

That’s because the city still has to spend millions to treatment storm water that runs into the combined sewer system.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2009, 10:49 PM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
No surprise that they would frame it as a 'rain water tax', as opposed to what it really is: a big box parking lot run-off tax. I'd like to give Nicole the benefit of the doubt, so let's say that it's the editors who are the massive weasels.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 11:25 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
City's goal is fairness with rain water tax

July 24, 2009
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator


Hamilton is looking to tax rain water -- but it won't be Mother Nature getting the bill.

Instead, the city wants to target expansive parking lots and big box stores that send storm water rushing into the sewers without helping to pay for treatment costs.

"It's all about fairness," explains Jim Harnum, head of the city's water and waste water department.

"We're trying to shift responsibility."

For several years, homeowners have seen their water consumption decline, due to increased rain to keep lawns green and conservation, but their bills continue to rise.

That's because the city still has to spend millions to treat storm water that runs into the combined sewers.

"When it rains, it actually costs the city more money," said Harnum, noting six of eight pumps were running at the plant yesterday, twice as much as on a dry day.

After years of watching its water revenue drop -- residential consumption is down 11 per cent or $750,000 this year already -- Harnum said the city knew it had to review who pays for what.

If rain water is driving costs up, it's only fair that properties that contribute to runoff because of large roofs or impermeable parking lots pay for the cost, said Harnum.

"They are getting service that the homeowner is paying for."

The fee, if approved, will likely mean a few dollars extra for homeowners, but hundreds more for commercial operations. In some cases, like parking lots, owners aren't paying anything toward the city's water works.

The storm water fee would be based on the property's size and its ability to absorb rain water. A home with a lawn sends far less water into the sewer system than a paved lot, said Harnum.

The city would offer discounts to properties that invest in green roofs, storm water management ponds and permeable parking lots.

Storm water fees are common in the U.S. but only a handful of Canadian municipalities have adopted the tax. Edmonton approved a land drainage fee in 2002.

The western city had struggled for years to fund its water infrastructure. New pipes and sewers were always being passed over for projects such as recreation centres, said Sid Lodewyk, general supervisor of environmental monitoring.

"It was always losing."

The new fee helped fund infrastructure while also spreading the cost more equitably, he said.

The program was complicated to start and faced some push-back, but is running well now, added Lodewyk.

"There's no real controversy anymore."

Hamilton plans to hold public consultation on its proposal in the fall. A formal recommendation will come to council before the new year with hopes on implementing the program in 2010.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 12:26 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,768
Let's keep in mind our civic leaders (leaders in air quotes) voted against a green roof at City Hall. Nothing like providing great leadership (air quotes again).
__________________
The jobs, stupid!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 12:46 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
They voted down turning the entire roof as a green roof. A section of the roof will be a green roof at City Hall.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 1:26 PM
Zaz's Avatar
Zaz Zaz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 62
So if the cost is being spread more equitably, why is it that the homeowner will still end up paying more than he/she does now? A rhetorical question, I know.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 2:13 PM
astroblaster's Avatar
astroblaster astroblaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 404
this sounds like a pretty good idea to me
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 6:34 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,050
There needs to be harmonization between departments on this item. One department requires a minimum count of parking spots for a commercial development, then another department wants to penalize you for the runoff caused by the parking lots required by the other department
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2009, 6:46 PM
highwater highwater is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,555
I think theyre talking about parking lots that far exceed the minimum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 3:47 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
There needs to be harmonization between departments on this item. One department requires a minimum count of parking spots for a commercial development, then another department wants to penalize you for the runoff caused by the parking lots required by the other department
It's just a staff proposal, I can't see it ever being passed by council. I can't see the courts allowing something like this either. If they did then that would open up extra taxation for people with paved driveways and even patios. It wouldn't go over to well with homeowners.

But I do like the idea. I can see lots of new developements being built with runoff ponds on site. Nice mosquito breeding grounds. The neighbors should love that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highwater View Post
I think theyre talking about parking lots that far exceed the minimum.
I don't think many developers build oversized parking lots, it's a waste of valuable land. They only put in enough to satisfy bylaw requirements. A good example would be the redevelopement of the Mountain Plaza Mall. The developers actually wanted to reduce the number of parking spaces available and city staff tried to prevent that from happening. The result was city council stepped in and allowed the reduction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2009, 11:46 AM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,768
Well there is a bylaw that a homeowner has to keep 50%, or more landscaped.

So I guess one could ask why developments don't have something similar. Call it a tax, or a reward for developing 'green', whatever......
__________________
The jobs, stupid!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2009, 2:16 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairHamilton View Post
Well there is a bylaw that a homeowner has to keep 50%, or more landscaped.

So I guess one could ask why developments don't have something similar. Call it a tax, or a reward for developing 'green', whatever......
I've never heard of such a bylaw, and if there is they certainly don't enforce it. If they did I'd be in trouble since only about 25% on my property is landscaped. The rest is either pavement , interlocking stone or house and garage. My backyard is all pool and interlocking stone with a drain in the middle, hooked up to the sewers. The pool and fences were done with a city permit and inspected by a city inspector with the patio in place. Nothing was said about having to have 50% landscaped.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2009, 4:28 PM
SABBATICAL!'s Avatar
SABBATICAL! SABBATICAL! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 50
This could be done well; this could be done very badly.
__________________
Hi, I'm Adam King { http://aking.ca » http://social.aking.ca » http://twitter.com/sabbatical }
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 1:07 AM
emge's Avatar
emge emge is offline
Needs more coffee...
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
I've never heard of such a bylaw, and if there is they certainly don't enforce it. If they did I'd be in trouble since only about 25% on my property is landscaped. The rest is either pavement , interlocking stone or house and garage. My backyard is all pool and interlocking stone with a drain in the middle, hooked up to the sewers. The pool and fences were done with a city permit and inspected by a city inspector with the patio in place. Nothing was said about having to have 50% landscaped.
It pertains more to your front yard, I believe - there's a ton of illegal driveways put in, but if you apply for a driveway that will make your front yard less than 50% landscaped, you need to apply for a zoning variance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 1:49 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
Concerned Citizen
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by emge View Post
It pertains more to your front yard, I believe - there's a ton of illegal driveways put in, but if you apply for a driveway that will make your front yard less than 50% landscaped, you need to apply for a zoning variance.
If thats the case then I am okay, all my grass and gardens are in the front.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 3:08 AM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,768
If timing is everything, then the timing of this seems to be perfect.
__________________
The jobs, stupid!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 4:35 AM
Millstone Millstone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Colborne, ON
Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairHamilton View Post
If timing is everything, then the timing of this seems to be perfect.
the RHVP would be a cash cow
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > General Discussion
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:53 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.