Vancouver Amalgamation

[LeftCoaster]

I've been meaning to start this thread for a while, as it is a topic that often comes up in other discussions, but there is no formal thread in which to discuss it. Recent growth patterns and demographic shifts are causing this to be a more and more pertinent issue. With the growing clout of the "South of the Fraser" communities and loss of industrial land in Vancouver proper I was wondering what you guys thought of amalgamation of a few of the communities North of the Fraser.

I've thrown together a short list of pros and cons to get the discussion rolling.

Mods please don’t let this turn into a Surrey vs. Vancouver shit-show. Also if anyone is interested please make a corresponding thread concerning S. of Fraser amalgamation, as I would but I am not familiar enough with local politics and demographics to start a thread.

Pros

• Increased population and unified voice allows for more voice within the metro regarding allocation of resources and funds.
• Integration will allow for more streamlined operations such as policing and utilities
• Would increase industrial land supply of COV, allowing them to be less concerned with retaining certain areas which may make more sense in a commercial/residential application.

Cons

• Loss of unique areas steeped in history such as New Westminster and Port Moody
• Loss of autonomy of local governments to set local policies and land use patterns.
• Some areas may feel as though their voice has gotten smaller within the massive new city created.

[ue]

I'd rather Vancouver not go that route. It, although they're suburbs, kinda destroys the little differences between the areas and eventually it's all just 1 city.

Many many cities in the world deal with shortage of land, and they do just fine. Keep building high rises if your industrial land is in jeoprady. Hong Kong has a huge port, but it is extremely dense, it gets by. Or Manhattan (NY) very dense area south of Harlem, or even including Harlem, and they still have some industrial areas I believe, if not just off the island still in the city proper - like Brooklyn, or like Marine Drive area for Vancouver perhaps. Vancouver, because of it's geography and size will probably end up in a similar way.

[officedweller]

If Vancouver and Burnaby were to merge, I wonder whether you would see a shift in focus away from Metrotown towards downtown Vancouver? Vancouver has a bigger population and if wards are imposed, then Vancouver councillors could outweigh Burnaby councillors in voting.
Vancouver also does not have a good reputation for building around rapid transit stations - would that mentality spread to Burnaby? Would Burnaby Nimbys get a bigger voice before a Vancouver dominated council?
Vancouver and Burnaby already gang up on South of Fraser communities at the regional level - so a merger proobably won't change that.
It would be a shame for New Westminster to lose its status as a separate City, just on historical grounds (being the first capital city, etc.)

[go_leafs_go02]

No.

I think it's great for governments to be able to focus on little areas..like you mentioned..if New West merged, then I think all the focus would be placed on Vancouver..and even Metrotown would be somewhat looked down.

I would be more for greater mergers splits..particularily south of the fraser. I think Surrey effectively could be made into 3 separate cities, as they all have different vibes/characteristics and needs particularly.

My bad..I'm a SoF resident, I know more about things here than on the other side of the Fraser..don't argue my point about Surrey.

[NetMapel]

I really don't understand why there needs to be an amalgamation just because the "south of Fraser" area is growing faster. Every region in lower mainland is growing quite well. and we should leave it as that.

[LotusLand]

Well I can see only one reason. If we Amalgamate with Burnaby, we can get rid of Derick Corrigan

[WarrenC12]

Wow, I can't believe the opposition to this. I think the merging of everything that now makes up "Metro Vancouver" would be great. The duplication in municipal services like garbage pickup, parks board, road/utility maintenance, transit, and especially policing could be eliminated.

Hopefully the city would have a more combined, focused voice when approaching the provincial or federal government for tax changes, spending, etc.

Regarding cons, this is simply an organizational change. New West as a community won't go anywhere. Certainly we still have Gastown, Kits, even Whalley as distinct communities that aren't going anywhere. (Even if we wish they did in the case of Whalley. )

Representation would be by population. Cities like Surrey would get a bigger say in the area, as they want (and deserve). And other cities like Burnaby and Port Moody wouldn't be throwing such a wrench into the plans of the region as a whole, just because of their geographic location.

[Stingray2004]

In Metro Vancouver, the only areas that I'd like to see amalgamate are the natural fits that have also been bandied about for eons:

1. North Van City/ North Van District;

2. Langley City/ Langley District;

3. Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam;

And then perhaps a little tinkering:

1. North Delta should become part of Surrey as they are one contiguous entity and North Delta also has a huge disconnect with South Delta;

2. South Surrey should almalgamate with White Rock (South Surrey really is Greater White Rock) as South Surrey has a huge disconnect with the rest of Surrey.

As for Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster... they should remain separate entities due to their historical significance.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

In Metro Vancouver, the only areas that I'd like to see amalgamate are the natural fits that have also been bandied about for eons:

1. North Van City/ North Van District;

2. Langley City/ Langley District;

3. Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam;

And then perhaps a little tinkering:

1. North Delta should become part of Surrey as they are one contiguous entity and North Delta also has a huge disconnect with South Delta;

2. South Surrey should almalgamate with White Rock (South Surrey really is Greater White Rock) as South Surrey has a huge disconnect with the rest of Surrey.

As for Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster... they should remain separate entities due to their historical significance.

I agree with most of what you said except for the South Surrey/White Rock amalgamation, haha. We're like the New Westminster of Surrey in terms of land size. We like our little corner and our "white rock" However, it is something worth considering if municipality work will be more efficient that way. However, since we're talking about the government here, I kind of doubt it

[CBeats]

Yeah I really don't understand why North Van has 2 districts...

[Canadian Mind]

One city/metro, many boroughs/districts. Have local governments deal with local issues within a framework established by a metro or almalgamated city government. This allows each area to preserve it's identity while allowing the region to grow as a whole.

With the lack of competition for funds, attention and buisness between areas regarding transit, development, etc. It would allow the whole city to make itself more efficient by putting the most money and the most development where it is needed most, rather than translink giving transit funds to the local council who manages to bitch the most, competition between Burnaby and Van for office space, etc.

It would also allow the best policies from each district to be applied as a whole, Burnaby and New West's efficient Skytrain development could finally be adopted by the Vancouver side of Boundary with an amalgamation, and could be applied to the Coquitam side of things along the proposed Evergreen route just as the line is taking shape.

Personall i wonder about Amalgamating everything from Horseshoe Bay to North Van; Surrey, Delta, Tsawassen White Rock, Langley, and Fort Langley; And Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Burnaby, New West, and Vancouver. Could include Richmond in with Vancouver, though being on an island I imagine it standing on it's own.

[CoryHolmes]

The only problem with amalgimation is that some of the smaller areas might have even less of a voice than they do now. Being a small part of Surrey is much more preferable than being a small part of a 2+ million person city.

There are already huge problems with Translink's focus on Vancouver and blinders to the rest of the region, imagine how much worse that would be if there was no "city council" to lobby them?

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by CoryHolmes

The only problem with amalgimation is that some of the smaller areas might have even less of a voice than they do now. Being a small part of Surrey is much more preferable than being a small part of a 2+ million person city.

There are already huge problems with Translink's focus on Vancouver and blinders to the rest of the region, imagine how much worse that would be if there was no "city council" to lobby them?

The problem as i see it is that Vancouver has 600 000 people while burnaby has 150 000, Coquitlam and richmond even less, etc.

So by having ll the municipalities between the Fraser River and burrard Inlet amalgamate, the attention would shift from just vancouvers current poltical boundaries to the full boundaries of the newly amalgamated area, meaning Richmond and Coquitlam may get more attention.

Conversely, if the communities on the south side amalgamate, they too would be seen as one larger entity rather than a bunch of underlings to Vancouver. To large cities on either side fo the river are going to get more even attantion that Vancouver taking the biggest piece of the pie, with all the other municipalities fighting over the scraps.

[mr.x]

After the mess in Toronto, i'm gonna say no.

[LeftCoaster]

Don't you mean Montreal?

Toronto's Amalgamation is one of the reasons I would strongly support amalgamation.

I am quite surprised by these numbers, I thought more here would be in favour of amalgamation, as it stands now it's about 50/50.

I'll weigh in with my thoughts in a bit, just a bit too busy at work to put the necessary time into a proper response.

[quobobo]

Definitely no. I think that Vancouver screws up a lot of planning and I think that having other cities nearby (mostly Burnaby) is good for competition. Having a neighbour nearby with a developing commercial/residential core keeps Vancouver from kowtowing too much to the NIMBYs. If Vancouver clamps down too much on residential or commercial development, developers have the option of just going to Metrotown.

[NetMapel]

^^^ Yes. Competition is one of the greatest proponent in pushing the lower mainland region to become an excellent place to live. You guys were on board the Surrey hype train when they were talking about a super tall there in the hope that Vancouver will be inspired to do something cool as well. I think that's exactly what our region need since we lack other kind of competitor unlike cities in the east coast.

[jlousa]

I'm for amalgamation so long as it avoids the ward system, the ward system has lead to nothing but trouble.

Personally I'd love to see West Van, north van and the district combine.
Van/bby/newwest as another city. The tri-cities all combined. Surrey/nordel/langley and even aldergrove as another, Richmong and South Delta and another. If that works out maybe after a decade or so consider another round of amalgamation, if it doesn't then disband it.

[EastVanMark]

I don't like a large scale amalgamation like was done in Toronto or Montreal but am favor of some of the smaller one that some have suggested above. If you look at almost any other larger North American city, Vancouver has a relatively puny land area and to have so many different independent cities within that small of land area is redundant.

[fever]

Amalgamating services is fine with me, amalgamating municipalities isn't. Many services have already been combined, others like policing could be too.

I think that having many small municipalities is more likely to result in differentiated policies tailored to specific areas, and experimentation in policy that, if successful, can be copied by other municipalities. For example, the City of North Vancouver legalized secondary suites in 1997, and other municipalities followed suit when the sky didn't fall. The district energy system in the City is another example.