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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2008, 8:39 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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too many subforums

I think there are too many subforums. I wish everything was just in a single hamilton forum that listed all of the threads.

I find that I only use the "recent threads" section--and that only lists a limited number. Once they fall off there they are forgotten about.

An alternative would be a "recent threads" page that listed all of the threads in the order of "last reply" with a user-set limit for how many to display on the page, with multiple pages just in case.

Possible?
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2008, 10:49 PM
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i agree. i have problems finding threads that don't fit neatly into the given categories.
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 3:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
I think there are too many subforums. I wish everything was just in a single hamilton forum that listed all of the threads.

I find that I only use the "recent threads" section--and that only lists a limited number. Once they fall off there they are forgotten about.
I agree with you.
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:01 AM
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I never use the categories, just the latest active thread list. You definitely miss a lot of active threads if you don't check more than once per day. Mods can't change stuff like that, but perhaps we could ask for the number of categories to be reduced.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 12:23 PM
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Or ask to increase the number of active list from 10 to 20. Though I don't know if people would like that idea, making the page longer to navigate.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 12:46 PM
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I think increasing the list size would be the way to go, the sub forums tend not to be that much of an issue, as I quite like the categorisations.

If the list actually mentioned the time and name of the person who had made the posts that make up the list, it would save a lot of scrolling down to see if someone had responded to a thread you had just responded to or if it was still your's as the last one posted or opening up a thread only to realise that no one had responded yet.
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 12:53 PM
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increasing the active list would satisfy me.
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  #8  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 4:58 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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i gotta ask - what is the point of the categorizations? can't people tell from the title what the general category of the thread is? the categories just confuse matters if your post kind of overlaps them, causing many to get lost etc.

I think the best solution is to reduce the sub forums.

Honestly - I think that we would do just fine (better in fact) if we only had two categories: hamilton photos and hamilton discussion. A possible third could be general discussion. I'd even argue that the photo threads should come in under a single-topic system, so that they get more attention.

I just went to take a closer look and the more I think about it, the worse the categories seem. They ALL overlap and are so intertwined it makes no sense to split them off like they are:



Downtown and City of Hamilton (11 Viewing)
Suburbs (1 Viewing)

Why do we segregate geographically? I would prefer we didn't - but these groupings are the only ones that make at least little bit of sense.

Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues (5 Viewing)
Doesn't urban fit under downtown? Isn't urban design related to the economy? And to transportation for that matter? If I post about LRT streetscaping, is it urban design or transportation and infrastructure?

Business, Politics and the Economy (5 Viewing)
Doesn't politics encompass everything we talk about here? ANd doesn't everything have an economic side to the story? Do house price discussions go here, or do they go in the downtown/suburban sections depending on where the houses in question are located?

Transportation and Infrastructure (2 Viewing)
Do I post B-Line information here or in "Downtown and city of hamilton". And if it's about transit funding, does it go here or in the economy subforum?

Culture, Dining, Sports and Recreation (1 Viewing)
Talk of a new stadium - does it go here? Or under Business? Or Hamilton Downtown? Or Urban Design?

General Discussion (3 Viewing)
What does this mean under the current context? Anything that doesn't fit into other categories? Anything that fits into too many other categories? Non Hamilton discussion?

Hamilton Photos (3 Viewing)
This is the only one that is clear as day :-)

The biggest reason I think we should get rid of the subforum structure is that I have no clue where to start when I am looking for a thread. I know I replied to a thread on a certain topic and without fail, I open 3 or 4 subforums looking for it once it's dropped off the active threads list. I can't be the only one!

edit to add: The only argument I can think of to keep the subforums is if there are people who are really only interested in one or two of the subforum themes and will routinely ignore the other ones. These people would be annoyed by sifting through LRT discussion if they only care about sports and culture for instance.

But do ANY of our users stay away from ANY of the categories? If not, then they do much more harm than good I think.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:36 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
i gotta ask - what is the point of the categorizations? can't people tell from the title what the general category of the thread is? the categories just confuse matters if your post kind of overlaps them, causing many to get lost etc.

I think the best solution is to reduce the sub forums.

Honestly - I think that we would do just fine (better in fact) if we only had two categories: hamilton photos and hamilton discussion. A possible third could be general discussion. I'd even argue that the photo threads should come in under a single-topic system, so that they get more attention.

I just went to take a closer look and the more I think about it, the worse the categories seem. They ALL overlap and are so intertwined it makes no sense to split them off like they are:



Downtown and City of Hamilton (11 Viewing)
Suburbs (1 Viewing)

Why do we segregate geographically? I would prefer we didn't - but these groupings are the only ones that make at least little bit of sense.

Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues (5 Viewing)
Doesn't urban fit under downtown? Isn't urban design related to the economy? And to transportation for that matter? If I post about LRT streetscaping, is it urban design or transportation and infrastructure?

Business, Politics and the Economy (5 Viewing)
Doesn't politics encompass everything we talk about here? ANd doesn't everything have an economic side to the story? Do house price discussions go here, or do they go in the downtown/suburban sections depending on where the houses in question are located?

Transportation and Infrastructure (2 Viewing)
Do I post B-Line information here or in "Downtown and city of hamilton". And if it's about transit funding, does it go here or in the economy subforum?

Culture, Dining, Sports and Recreation (1 Viewing)
Talk of a new stadium - does it go here? Or under Business? Or Hamilton Downtown? Or Urban Design?

General Discussion (3 Viewing)
What does this mean under the current context? Anything that doesn't fit into other categories? Anything that fits into too many other categories? Non Hamilton discussion?

Hamilton Photos (3 Viewing)
This is the only one that is clear as day :-)

The biggest reason I think we should get rid of the subforum structure is that I have no clue where to start when I am looking for a thread. I know I replied to a thread on a certain topic and without fail, I open 3 or 4 subforums looking for it once it's dropped off the active threads list. I can't be the only one!

edit to add: The only argument I can think of to keep the subforums is if there are people who are really only interested in one or two of the subforum themes and will routinely ignore the other ones. These people would be annoyed by sifting through LRT discussion if they only care about sports and culture for instance.

But do ANY of our users stay away from ANY of the categories? If not, then they do much more harm than good I think.
I think the issue is the subcategories are not being used as originally intended:

Downtown and City of Hamilton and Suburbs were meant to discuss the specifics of individual construction projects as they progress from planning and design to construction. There is always scope creep in these discussion points to include urban design issues and politics, which were never meant to be included in these threads.

Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues is more encompassing and is where urban issues for specific neighbourhoods should be discussed (i.e, Locke Street, Innovation Park)

Business, Politics and the Economy This is where any socio-economic or political discussions should be confined. It tends to creep and cloud most threads here.

Transportation and Infrastructure is where the design and construction of LRT, road construction, sewage treatment plants etc. belongs

Culture, Dining, Sports and Recreation should be self explanatory. This is where new shows, restaurant openings, sporting events are discussed. I really don't think talk of a new stadium belongs here. That would be a construction item. Talk of a team moving to Hamilton, however, does belong here.

General Discussion and Hamilton Photos are self explanatory.

I am really not in favour of removing categories. This is a standard format for Local SSP's as they are created here. I am pretty sure the forum creators would like to keep things as standardized as possible for a databse like this. I think it really is more a question of it being used as intended as opposed to the free-for-all posting that has been taking place to date.

From the forum entry page there is a clear description of what each sub-forum category should contain. As long as you read that before proceeding, you'd get a clear picture of what kind of discussion belongs where.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
i gotta ask - what is the point of the categorizations? can't people tell from the title what the general category of the thread is? the categories just confuse matters if your post kind of overlaps them, causing many to get lost etc.
oh, come on. how else will the mods get a power trip for deleting 'off topic' posts???
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
The biggest reason I think we should get rid of the subforum structure is that I have no clue where to start when I am looking for a thread. I know I replied to a thread on a certain topic and without fail, I open 3 or 4 subforums looking for it once it's dropped off the active threads list. I can't be the only one!
I do this, too. However, in the absence of a decent search function, I`m not persuaded that getting rid of subfora will improve things.
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 6:09 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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At 50 threads a page, it will be rare to have to go further than one page to find all the threads that have been active in the last week or so. So ctrl+f would work way better and faster than the vbulletin search function. Even if you ahve to go back 100 threads, thats' only two pages, and two ctrl+f invocations.

The community is too small to sustain this many subforums. At a minimum the categorization needs to be much clearer.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 6:14 PM
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The categorization is pretty clear-cut as is. Every sub-forum category has an explicit description of what its content should be. I don't see how it could be clearer. A flat-line forum would much be worse for finding specific discussion topics. That is the way it used to be, and it was horrible to try to navigate.
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 6:26 PM
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I don't even care about the different forums... I stick to the 'latest active threads' list.
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 6:32 PM
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Often time I just relocate threads to the proper subforum.

This happens often with the "Downtown and City of Hamilton" section. Majority of the time I relocate it to the "Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues" section.
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 7:01 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
The categorization is pretty clear-cut as is. Every sub-forum category has an explicit description of what its content should be. I don't see how it could be clearer. A flat-line forum would much be worse for finding specific discussion topics. That is the way it used to be, and it was horrible to try to navigate.
I'm not talking about a single thread - that's how it used to be. Just one topic. I am talking about a single forum with many topics which is much, much different.

I gave several examples about lack of clarity - Say an article comes down from the spec about B-Line routing. Is that Transit? OR Downtown? Or Urban? It could even be about heritage if it discusses comparisons with the old streetcar lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Often time I just relocate threads to the proper subforum.

This happens often with the "Downtown and City of Hamilton" section. Majority of the time I relocate it to the "Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues" section.
This is a perfect example of how clarity is lacking for many users - and the moving of topics causes them to get lost even faster.

How were the subforum topics chosen initially? Are they standard across all ssp local sections?
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
I'm not talking about a single thread - that's how it used to be. Just one topic. I am talking about a single forum with many topics which is much, much different.

I gave several examples about lack of clarity - Say an article comes down from the spec about B-Line routing. Is that Transit? OR Downtown? Or Urban? It could even be about heritage if it discusses comparisons with the old streetcar lines.



This is a perfect example of how clarity is lacking for many users - and the moving of topics causes them to get lost even faster.

How were the subforum topics chosen initially? Are they standard across all ssp local sections?
Yes I believe they are pretty much the same for all of the SSP:Locals.
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
This is a perfect example of how clarity is lacking for many users - and the moving of topics causes them to get lost even faster.

How were the subforum topics chosen initially? Are they standard across all ssp local sections?
Here's a list of threads moved from the "Downtown and City of Hamilton" (it's in blue) and questionable threads that's in the "Downtown and City of Hamilton" that probably should be relocated but hasn't. This is just the first page, just to give you an example.

Survey from Tony Battaglia on Downtown Hamilton (12)
LikeHamilton

City Business Parks
raisethehammer

Entry Condos
bornagainbiking

Moved: Rental Licensing/Licensing Fees
Manage
Blurr

Moved: Property Tax Increase Notice
Manage
MsMe

Moved: James North
Manage
hmagazine

Moved: City Kidz
Manage
adam


Durand Neighbourhood Association
Jon Dalton

King William guerrilla gardening and ssp meet-up! (12)
highwater

Downtown Filming
Lukey

Locke Street Festival
MsMe

The Idea Factory (123)
MatchstickMan

Hamilton Gateway Sign (12)
FairHamilton

Moved: Reasons for Hamilton High Tech
Manage
FairHamilton


Birks Clock outside Jackson Square
JoeyColeman

SVP Sports looking at Hamilton
Da Warrior

Moved: No Shortage of "Squelchers"
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 8:34 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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But this is exactly my point - a need to move so many threads means that there is a lack of clarity in how the topics are broken down. If it was truly clear, everyone would innately post in the correct topic and nothing would need to be moved.

Nobody has really made any points in favour of having so many subforums... what are the advantages? The only advantage I can think of is that it makes it easier to ignore certain general topics altogether - and I'd argue that most users on here do not need that feature at all.

Many days I click on my trusty bookmark and I'm overwhelmed by how much clicking I have to do in order to follow the last 5 conversations I was interested in- so i check out the top few "active topics" and leave.

I'd go as far as saying that if we simplified SSP Local Hamilton, and the other local forums followed suit, there would be less stress on the servers due to significantly fewer page requests as users click around looking for "that thread that I was following yesterday."
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2008, 8:59 PM
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To me the subforums are pretty crystal clear. For the "Downtown and City of Hamilton" section it's for specific projects/developments in the City of Hamilton such as Lister Block, Hilton Hotel, City Hall etc, (very specific).

Majority of the moved threads went to "Urban, Urban Design and Heritage Issues" because they deal with urban issues such as property taxes, James St North, Rental fees, etc.

Perhaps I'll be more strict and relocate threads to their proper subforum in the future.
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