Tolls urged for main highways

[DC83]

Report says Red Hill expressway, Linc could offset transit costs

January 22, 2008
Stories by Dana Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 22, 2008)

Drivers should be forking over extra cash to use some main highways, including the Red Hill Valley Expressway and the Linc, according to a new study.

The report, commissioned by the Residential and Civil Construction Alliance of Ontario, examines ways to pay for transit and transportation in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

One recommendation is the implementation of tolls on major highways, including the 400 series.

Harry Kitchen, the Trent University economics professor who wrote the report, says fixing environmental damage, improving infrastructure and encouraging smart growth and intensification will be expensive.

"Basically my argument is that this is the best way ... to charge the users for those services, as opposed to charging everybody when it's only a few who use it," Kitchen says.

Among its eight recommendations are an extra fuel tax and the need for a regional governing body to make decisions about the changes.

It recommends the body should be set up along the same lines as Metrolinx, formerly the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority.

Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac isn't ruling out the possibility that the body could one day hold such a role in the expanded region.

"We are still a reasonably new Crown corporation and I think in the fullness of time, we may end up where the professor is suggesting," he said, "but we're not quite there yet."

McMaster professor Pavlos Kanaroglou, an urban transportation expert, says that simply charging tolls won't solve the problem of having so many drivers on the road.

He said an alternative, such as suitable public transit system, is needed. Otherwise, those who are car-dependent will keep using their vehicles and it will just be more expensive for them.

"You are just punishing them for (the) bad planning of the past," he said.

Kevin Gaudet, Ontario director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, says the report is asking for too much.

"Canadians are really taxed to death and it's a peculiar approach in my opinion to start out by trying to solve a problem by slapping more taxes on."

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says he doesn't favour tolls on the Red Hill Valley Expressway or the Linc, but he's not against them to pay for the cost of new roads or repairs for roads coming to the end of their lives.

[DC83]

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says he doesn't favour tolls on the Red Hill Valley Expressway or the Linc, but he's not against them to pay for the cost of new roads or repairs for roads coming to the end of their lives.

No wonder he's such a bad leader, the man can't even make up his mind.
"Well I don't like the idea, but I like the benefits of the idea. Maybe I should implement this. Nah, Council will never go for it... I'm just going to ignore it like everything else..."

I agree w/ the McMaster professor (Pavlos Kanaroglou) as people in THIS city especially would gladly pay for the use of the roads while whining and complaining about it yet never take public transit.

I say once LRT is built, THEN toll the hell out of the Linc & RHVP.

[flar]

This is a great idea in theory because users would pay extra for their use, just like with public transit. But the practical problem is that people are irrational, they'll pay $2 for a bottle of watter or a lottery ticket or $5 to rent a movie, but they will try to avoid 10 cents to drive on the Linc. The tolls would simply cause people to take alternate routes. There would still be just as many cars on the road, they'd just be using city streets instead of highways.

[SteelTown]

^ Yep I agree all it'll do is put all the cars back on the main roads. I remember before the Linc opened Mohawk and Stone Church used to be so congested but now there's never any congestion. The same for Centennial Parkway.

Instead I suggest installing congestion charge like in London, UK for Main and King St especially for trucks.

I'm with DC, give us good public transit options than push for tolls.

[raisethehammer]

people are crazy in this city.
Complaining about possible metered parking increases of 50 cents! Are we that in love with our cars?? Get a life people!

[DC83]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

people are crazy in this city.
Complaining about possible metered parking increases of 50 cents! Are we that in love with our cars?? Get a life people!

Yes, yes they are. Hence Highways to nowhere!

[SteelTown]

Plus it's the end of free parking for places like Locke Street. Didn't we just get rid of metered parking on Locke like 5 years ago? How much money are we wasting to reinstall these meters back?

[DC83]

Ya, I'm REALLY annoyed about the meters on Locke.
This city cannot make up it's mind about ANYthing... it's getting pretty frustrating.

"Hey! Let's make an anti-idling by-law!"
"Great idea, we'll save the environment"

6 months later

"So, we can't inforce this anti-idling by-law"
"ya, what a stupid idea!!"

Ugh.

[SteelTown]

5 years ago Locke wasn't as successful as it was today and somehow free parking didn't come into the equation of the success? I remember Locke Street storeowners begging to get rid of the meters. Isn’t it a problem that's there's not enough parking now? Jeez do City Hall workers have any brain cells left?

[the dude]

it's already been alluded to but it's pointless to punish drivers when they're given no other option. our public transit is laughable and it's not a reasonable option for most people. i'm not absolving those who have chosen to live in the burbs miles and miles from their jobs, etc., but we must improve hsr service first...then we can gouge the hell outta them! hehe.

ya, eisenberger's a bit of a nut. he seems so excited about the prospect of removing cars from parts of downtown, etc., but these sorts of measures don't work unless you've got great public transit options. hell, we don't even have bike lanes. he's all over the place.

[raisethehammer]

I don't remember there being meters on Locke 5 years ago. I've lived in the area for 7 years and have never seen a meter on Locke.

[SteelTown]

^ Probably longer than 7 years ago. It was during Bob Morrow days. If you check the sidewalks you can clearly see holes filled in cement from the previous parking meters.

[LikeHamilton]

Sorry I have a problem with the this. A lot of people want tolls on the road so the users pay. Transit riders pay a fare…user pays. So put a meters in and the user pays. So it cost you a buck to park on Locke Street for an hour. You can get a lot done in an hour. I have seen people come out of the antique shops with hundreds of dollars of junk (my feelings). So they pay a dollar or two to park. No they will not go to a mall with free parking if the only place that has what they want is on Locke Street or any other street. It is the destination and what is on the street that draws people there. Locke Street Bakery, Beach Road Meats and Bad Dogs are only on Locke Street. Ottawa Street and Conncession Street is always crowded and they have meters and off street metered parking lots. If it was the cost of parking that drew people to an area, then downtown Hamilton and the other areas like Locke, Westdale, Ottawa Street, Downtown etc would be boomtowns and turning away people and downtown Toronto would be a ghost towns. As to people parking off the main roads for free parking. These are not the fisrt area to have this problem. All they do is have a the streets marked for 2 hour parking and permit only. Allow the home owners to get there permit for free in the general area.

I am like everyone else. I want free roads, free transit, free parking, free ti-cats tickets etc. But life is not free. The only thing we can hope for is that it is reasonable.

And a question. How come the people who live in the richest area with the most expensive stores have free parking (excluding Locke Street)?

I have a problem with the Hamilton anti-idling by-law and that it has no teeth and the exemptions make it an in-name only by-law. The big one is the temperature exemptions. It covers the times of the year when idling would be the greatest and the air quality would be the worst. I would cover most of the winter and summer months.

Here are some exemptions. There are 14 in all.

• Temperatures below 5 and above 27 degrees Celsius.
• Service vehicles whose main function requires the vehicle be running.
• Medical conditions that require stable climatic conditions.
• Transit vehicles while at a layover or stopover location.
• Vehicles transporting a person where a medical doctor certifies in writing for medical reasons.
• Commercial vehicles using heating or refrigeration systems.

[miketoronto]

While good transit is needed before these tolls are in place, there are some points to consider.

1. Tolls would make people rethink their lifestyle, and maybe see that they need to demand and want to live more green then they do.

2. Is public transit really that bad in Hamilton? Hamilton is a smaller city, and almost everyone within the city, is 20min-30min or less by transit from downtown and other major destinations. Infact public transit while is lacks rapid buses, or other fancy services, is pretty good in Hamilton. Most buses will take you direct to the city centre, and even in the suburban sectors, they operate on a pretty good frequency.
I suspect there are thousands of people in Hamilton for who the HSR actually does provide proper service, and yet they are to lazy to try it. So a toll might encourage these people to try it. And the additional riders would make more service improvments more popular.

Lets grill Steeltown Steeltown I am sure could take the bus to most places, and it does not take much longer then driving. But he still drives
Sorry to harp on you Steeltown But its all in good fun.

So yes improved transit is needed if tolls are brought in. But I think we need to remember that there is also a large segment of the population that is just lazy to walk the two min to a bus stop. And also a large segment of the population who would change their lifestyle if they had to pay the cost of living on the extreme edge, for no other reason but to get a 5,000 sq foot house to show off.

The news interviewed people the other night, and one lady actually said something like "tolls would remove the reason I moved all the way out here in the first place".

[markbarbera]

Metered parking should be on Locke, and all other business districts. Excluding it from commercial districts is silly, and raising it to a buck an hour is long overdue.

Free/cheap parking doesn't keep people away from commercial centres, a lack of unique destination points does. Locke is a unique destination which will not suffer due to metered parking.

[flar]

Example of transit service for me:

bus to downtown:
weekdays: 25-30 minutes, every hour, every half hour during rush hour
weekends: 10 minute walk +25-30 minutes, every hour

car to downtown: 12-15 minutes, anytime.

[DC83]

ONE benefit from metered parking is it will prevent area residents from driving to Locke. The only time I don't like to walk to Locke from my place is during weather like this: either freezing or gross & slushy.

Steeltown lives in an area of the mountain that's poorly serviced. The extreme east & west ends of the Mountain have little-to-no transit service. I know, I used to live in Upper Stoney Creek. Terrible. So one can't rag on him for driving to Mac as it would seriously cut his commute in at least half!

[raisethehammer]

plus, Hamilton's transit system has all routes ending downtown for some reason (most of them anyhow).
I've always wondered why an Upper James or Wentworth/Ottawa etc... bus doesn't come downtown and head out to Mac then Dundas. Why turn around downtown??
The 41 Mohawk is the best example of this...from the Meadowlands all the way to Gage/Industrial.

I had a friend who's wife used to work at Limeridge Mall. They lived near the 41 Mohawk stop in the King/Ottawa area....one, quick ride to work. Most folks in either part of the city (upper or lower) have to use 2 or more buses to get up or down. Makes no sense and would be a ridiculously easy change.

[SteelTown]

I drive to three different places in one day like this morning I drove to work at McMaster, got out during lunch hour and drove to Mohawk College and now I'm at home. Sometimes I have to go back to work from Mohawk so that's 4 different places.

If I was to take transit I would not be able to meet the timeline for each of my destinations as I have a class timetable and a tight work hour schedule. I would have to take College to Gore and take Beeline to McMaster. Then Beeline to Gore and take College again to Mohawk and then College again to my house but I have to wait 30 minutes for my College route as there's two College routes. So it's all precious time that I can't wait on. But if they improved West Hamilton bus route I might consider it but it's long and goes into Ancaster and not very direct. There's no bus route up on the Mountain that takes you to McMaster directly or fast.

My parking to Mohawk is free, I just pay for McMaster's parking rate which is around $170 for 4 months and I get a sticker on my pass to not pay for Mohawk's rate.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Most folks in either part of the city (upper or lower) have to use 2 or more buses to get up or down. Makes no sense and would be a ridiculously easy change.

This same logic is the main reason why I think having a second downtown GO Station and linking the two by bus is a bad idea. The more transfers one has to make, the less likely the trip will be made. If I have to take the bus downtown, then transfer to another bus to get to James North to catch GO, I'll say 'screw it, I'm driving to Aldershot', as would most of my commuting colleagues.