Big Box at Aberdeen and Longwood - DEAD

[raisethehammer]

I'll post more info tomorrow, but a developer is taking the city to the OMB in January in an attempt to have some of the Innovation District converted to big box retail zoning.
It's the same folks currently building at Clappison's Corners.
Obviously the Innovation Park/District is poised to help lead the turnaround in Hamilton. It's landlocked with no further room for expansion, so it would seem to make no sense to convert some of these lands for big box retail. We need the high paying, new economy R&D jobs planned for this district. Not more minimum wage fast food and retail jobs.
Stay tuned.

[SteelTown]

There's a big by law sign at Aberdeen and Longwood near the CP yard, I think that's where they want to go. Not extactly on the Innovation District land expect across the street right beside to the CP yard.

[fastcarsfreedom]

It really depends "how" the land is developed. Let's not get all excited over losing more "employment lands" before we see what the proposal is. Innovation Park is going to bring a lot of warm-bodies to that area who are going to be a consumer force--looking for everything from retail to restaurant meals. This is also the area that is poised to host much needed hotel space. A properly executed development could easily combine retail/dining elements with other professional and office space.

[matt602]

Seems like a good idea to me actually. I mean, it's not a dense urban neighbourhood to begin with, and with the CP yard there anything that is built there is gonna be slightly detracted by it.

A big box here will go well to service the lower city, but won't detract from it by being right in one of the finer urban centres in the core.

I'm more surprised that Loblaws is coming back to Hamilton so boastfully now. This is their second planned project in the city that I know of (this and Centre Mall - both lower city sites)

[DC83]

If they were to develop the lands in a favourable way (streetwalls, landscaping, mixed-use, etc) then it would be welcome considering all the people at the Innovation Park wouldn't really have anywhere to go on their lunches (besides maybe Kelsey's). They're not likely to walk all the way into Westdale as it's a bit of a walk from the site.

[raisethehammer]

here's the proposed plan...typical layout for big box surrounding a huge parking lot:

http://www.trinity-group.com/?q=node/391

this entire area has been designated the Innovation District.
And yes, the plan calls for some cafes, restaurants and hotels within that district, but not like this.
This takes up over half of the available land space in this district and uses it as only big box and parking.
I don't mind a Loblaws or other stores locating in the district as part of the overall development, but this would be insane for the city to lose half of this district to low-wage retail and surface parking.

The jobs and companies that will be lured here in upcoming years will be the likes of which Hamilton has never seen. This is one of the best opportunities we have to turn the corner. I'd hope the undemocratic stiffs at the OMB side with the city on this one. This would be a bigger mistake than QEW/Centennial or Fifty Rd.
If we have any hope of keeping some of our sharpest Mac grads in town when they graduate, it will be in large part because of this project and downtown revitalization. I'm sure the community will rally good and hard to keep the lands for what they are designated for.

[SteelTown]

I think this land is outside of the Innovation District. Currently this land is a big empty industrial land.

The OMB decision on whether a power centre is a form of industrial employment is going to be a critical decison.

[DC83]

So I was checking out the site on google maps satelite imaging, and I retract my earlier streetwall statement. There is no way they can even create a streetwall as there is only one small chunk of land that faces Chatham St. The rest is already occupied by a warehouse of some sort.

This development reminds me a lot of one at Laird/Eglinton in Toronto... and will probably turn out as ugly, too.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...&t=h&z=18&om=1
It was also built on former Industrial Lands with limited amount of space. Not only is the land-use horrible on that site, but the actual buildings themselves look like cartoon, over-sized mcmansions.
A Cpl Examples:

http://www.attune.net/wp-content/upl.../07/webhmv.jpg


http://www.attune.net/wp-content/upl...outhstreet.jpg


http://www.attune.net/wp-content/upl...webbestbuy.jpg

Those (above) are all from that big box land at Laird/Eglinton.

[matt602]

Wow that's weak. There was big box in that area before as well but it wasn't too bad. Man, epic fail.

[SteelTown]

This will be a very well hidden big box. You drive under the bridge at Aberdeen and you might miss it.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

This will be a very well hidden big box. You drive under the bridge at Aberdeen and you might miss it.

Ya, that's why I don't understand!?
And there seems to be like a small ravine or something that seperates this land from the Innovation land!?

[raisethehammer]

you guys are confusing McMaster's own Innovation Park with the city's surrounding Innovation District.
The hope is to have spin-off companies locate here due to the success of the Innovation Park. The entire area is called the Innovation District. This big box plan effectively eliminates the city's plan for more spin off companies and good jobs by using the entire area for big box.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by DC83

And there seems to be like a small ravine or something that seperates this land from the Innovation land!?

That's Chedoke creek, by the golf course there's a large waterfall and all the water gets combined together to form Chedoke creek.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

you guys are confusing McMaster's own Innovation Park with the city's surrounding Innovation District.
The hope is to have spin-off companies locate here due to the success of the Innovation Park. The entire area is called the Innovation District. This big box plan effectively eliminates the city's plan for more spin off companies and good jobs by using the entire area for big box.

Question! The area is currently industrial, like warehouses and stuff but can a bylaw more specific like industrial land for R&D (research and development)? If that's the case the by law will be more specific and the city has a better chance protecting this land (and to OMB) from big box because as you see big boxes are using industrial land as an excuse for employment and therefore it's typically industrial.

[SteelTown]

If somehow the big box wins I can see this development instally getting all the retails to sign up. This is a good area for retail, just not for this location, as the Western edge of Hamilton will boom and the area really lacks retail, a single grocery store in the whole area, Dundurn and most of the time it's packed.

[flar]

^^There is also The Barn is at Longwoods and King

This land should absolutely be kept for high tech industry and research. Dundurn Plaza should be redeveloped, they could fit a lot more stuff on that property.

[SteelTown]

There's been talks of re-doing the Dundurn Plaza for years now. Nothing ever happens, think there's a new owner of that Fortinos store though.

But I have a feeling the Dundurn Plaza will get redeveloped soon. That house on Dundurn is still up and Fortinos now own it so they haven't knocked it down yet. So perhaps they are working on a new blueprint and start demoing buildings by buildings.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

There's been talks of re-doing the Dundurn Plaza for years now. Nothing ever happens, think there's a new owner of that Fortinos store though.

But I have a feeling the Dundurn Plaza will get redeveloped soon. That house on Dundurn is still up and Fortinos now own it so they haven't knocked it down yet. So perhaps they are working on a new blueprint and start demoing buildings by buildings.

Let's hope that includes bringing retail to the streetfront (for Dundurn Plaza).
They could really make a real estate killing on that land if they were to build a condo tower or two... the views alone would sell all the units: East = Downtown Skyline, West = Westdale/Mac, North = Dundurn Park/Burlington Bay, South = The Escarpment/Durand & Kirkendall aka Steepletown haha
Streetfront retail + condos + rear parking = one great big urban development.
ps: Let's not forget to incorporate a great Transit Station for LRT.

[raisethehammer]

I, too, wish that Dundurn Plaza would be redeveloped, but during the Strathcona Secondary Planning meetings it became apparent that it won't be happening anytime soon, if ever.
The owner was somewhat intrested, but not really, in the idea.
However, any interest he had was killed upon learning that the folks who run that factory across the other side of Main St made it clear that they would challenge any residential development there since the plaza falls within their boundary zone. in other words, boundary zones are set up giving a minimum distance that needs to exist between residential and industry...I forget how many metres it is.
the plaza falls within that zone.

the strathcona secondary plan are now changing their maps to take out the "possible redevelopment" phrase from Dundurn Plaza.

[raisethehammer]

more info here from the city:

http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/...jects/whia.htm