Jackson Square

[raisethehammer]

I'd like a discussion here with your ideas for Jackson Square. Feel free to dream big, but let's also provide some simple ideas that they should implement in the short term to help turn that complex around.
I see 3 main components to Jackson Square - the interior, the street frontage and the rooftop.
Recently my wife and I chatted about the differences between Jackson Sq and Limeridge Mall.
I had no clue (since I'm out of touch with malls these days) but she said she enjoys Limeridge because they have carts you can use as child seats while you shop. Also, they have great baby changing areas. Most guys wouldn't think of things like this, but they are a big deal. Other than the food court, I'm not even aware of any other bathrooms at ground level in Jackson.
The mix of stores obviously is an issue, yet they already have some great draws to build off of - Denningers, the Market, Library etc....
let's hear your ideas to bring the bustle back to the Square.

[SteelTown]

Kinda pointless to draw up ideas for Jackson Square as long Yale owns the mall. If they can't make money then just sell the mall I'm sure someone will buy it and redevelop it.

Obviously the cement and brick walls needs to come down. Personally I would get rid of the rooftop and just install skylights to brigthen up the mall, the rooftop isn't used that much. I like to see a fake streetscape design inside Jackson and during the summer open up the skylight.

[DC83]

I hate demolition (as most of you know), but I say tear it down, bring the park (currently on the roof) to street level.
Move all stores to City Ctr, smaller indy shops could open up along James or King William or Gore Park.

This has been my dream for YEARS!

[fastcarsfreedom]

Dreaming big means tearing down Jackson Square--hmmm--by my calculation this would mean--Stelco Tower, Thompson Building, Standard Life Center--that would be quite a gap but would quickly create a tight office market downtown.

Jackson Square has potential to work. As I just posted in another thread--my folks' took us there shopping every Saturday on trips that always included Eaton's, the market, the library, Dennigers, National Bakery (remember that awesome place?) and any number of other stops. The place up the late 1980s was absolutely THRIVING. I can remember sitting eating pizza in the Sbarro in Phase IV and seeing the mall teeming with people--vacant stores were extremely rare--and yes, all this was happening well after Lime Ridge opened (1983).

Certainly the person who mentioned Yale is spot-on--I've ranted in this space frequently about Yale. The make no apparent effort at all when it comes to "remerchandising" space when it becomes vacant--during the recession of the early 90s and subsequent difficult times downtown they made absolutely no effort to work with or negotiate with tenants--they just let the space fall vacant and then walled off most of Phase IV in an effort to get a break on their taxes. There are flashes of brilliance--they did a nice job when they built the new food court--and they put it in a logical spot--but by the same token they've let the former food court space go to seed (in that brillant two-level space outside the market--so much potential).

My vote on redevelopment would be a cross between logical/simple and dreaming big. The place needs a fairly extensive reworking of it's interior, decor and lighting. I would suggest some of the space could be reworked to create a simpler interior floor plan--perhaps with larger stores and wider corridors. No question that they King Street streetwall (and perhaps part of Bay Street) could easily be pulled out--and larger footprint stores with dual interior/exterior access could locate along here. The King/James entrance should be rebuilt in a more dramatic fashion. More than anything else Yale should be on a full-court press to bring anyone and everyone down there to lease space--they should be at every retail trade show--they should be producing videos and wining/dining potential tenants--for office and retail. They should have a damn website. The previously discussed need for a supermarket may work perfectly within Jackson Square's footprint.

The Plaza level (the roof if you will) has a ton of potential--but I wonder how many people even know that it's up there. There are thousands of white collars working in the towers all week--what are some incentives that could draw them down to the Plaza level now and then?

The other major piece of the pie would be to get people LIVING on that block--remember that the original plan called for residential towers where Copps was built. A start might be the unused Bank of Montreal Pavillion--wouldn't be a ton of living spaces--but they'd be in a pretty cool spot. That space might work well for retail (Indigo?) or a small hotel space. Residential Towers could rise elsewhere on the block with some more significant work.

[raisethehammer]

I'd like to see lofts in the old Bank of Montreal building.
I'd like to see a large condo tower built where the Family Fitness currently is. It's only one-storey, easy to tear down. Family Fitness could relocate into the ground floor.
A grocery store would be awesome, especially close to the Farmers Market...maybe in the ground floor of my new condo tower??
They seem to have room in there for larger stores - Winners, Home Sense etc.... places like Druxys and McDonalds should have attractive, flowering patios outside. honestly, I think they could really do something great even with the current building...An indigo could be built over the PAMs at King/James entrance. It's dead space right above PAM's.

[matt602]

An immediate step which seems to be under construction right now is improving the space around the Farmers Market. I mentioned this in the Rumour Mill, currently all the space between the new food court and the old one is empty and the walls have been tore out. Theres tarp up and they seem to be doing something with it but I can't tell the exact plans.

I think what needs to be done here is ripping out the entire second level above the food court aside from directly above the existing restaurants (so basically ripping out where the Asian Mart and Sushi place was) and creating a dramatic 2 story entry to the Farmers market. Lots of glass to open the Farmers Market into the mall, with 2 or 3 restaurants up beside it above the existing ones. I have several different variations of this plan in my head actually, but all of them would incorporate a 2 story entry to the Farmers Market.

[the dude]

there are many things that could be done to help jackson sqare. that said, like dc83 i've long fantasized about taking a sledge hammer to it. my plans are extreme and won't happen because it would cost too much and upset too many people. it would basically involve razing everything on that property. not gonna happen.

as previously mentioned, incorporating the market into the former food court is a good start. also, open everything to the street; add condos; redesign king-james entrance and so on. too bad it ain't gonna happen. yale seems to have a good hate on for this town. weird and unfortunate.

the same things could be said for HCC. i'm sure housing or a hotel could be added without much effort. how about a grocery store on the main level? there are so many ways these properties could be improved. with some luck we might see some of these things happen.

[realcity]

I don't hate JSq. I like the rooftop when it's used. The view is awesome, it feels not like Hamilton. More events on the roof

OR

Build a residential tower(s) from the roof. A couple 25 towers. Imagine living there and at just outside your lobby is the rooftop, (with actual people hanging out because of the residents) or take the elevator one more level down to be inside JSq.

"Hey I'm just heading out to AGH for a while do you need me to pick up anything?"

Does anyone remember when JSq was open all night? Just the stores closed up, I worked there in 1989/90 and remember that.

[raisethehammer]

yup...I remember that.
it's brutal now late at night walking around trying to find which doors are open.
TONS could be done to improve JS but Yale either doesn't want to, or doesn't feel that they'd make enough on their investment.
Lofts in old BMO pavillion, apartment tower on top of Family Fitness, open streetwalls to sidewalk with more patios. attract some larger format stores by using the empty space - Winners, Home Sense, Canadian Tire etc....

Liason College moves in next month, so hopefully they do a decent job on the reno there.

[the dude]

i've always disliked the jackson sq rooftop. probably because i had the tar beaten outta me in grade 7 after exiting the cinema. it really is wasted space and as much was said after the plans were unveiled back in the day. not being visible from the street, it acts as great location for ne'er-do-wells to hang out and do their business. it's a peculiar and unfriendly space.

[raisethehammer]

good news from the new issue of VIEW:



BOBBY HEBERT
Bobby Hebert has been making and promoting music locally since
the ’60s but his recent work has probably brought his work to
new levels. He’s promoted The Downstairs Club, the Gore Park
Summer Music Festival, the inaugural Hamilton Idol Competition,
as well as Burlington’s Jazz and Blues Festival in the third week of
July. And while still performing with the Bobby Hebert Experience,
Hebert reunited with his ’60s band The Jameson Roberts Blues
Band with Dr. Russ Weil and Ron Marinelli in 2004 to resounding
success.
Recordings from BHX and The Jameson Roberts Blues Band
are pending in 2008 but late last year, Hebert helped usher in a
new era for Jackson Square’s Walt’s Beanery that has transformed
the mall eatery into Hamilton’s latest venue – Waltz Live Music
Club.
“As founder and Festival Director of the Burlington Jazz and
Blues Festival, I have many duties so I am looking for people who
can help me continue to build and operate the festival,” explains
Hebert. “Our plan is to build it into to an iconic event like the
Montreal Jazz Festival over the next 10 years. But each year I
receive around 1000 submissions to perform in our event. I plan
to showcase the best acts at Waltz in the coming months from
these and other submissions.
“I like the room, the sight lines are great and the sound
production is first rate,” adds Hebert. “I can showcase so many
artists and help bring more life to Hamilton. I love our city and I
want to give back whatever and whenever I can. The location is
great. It’s right in the heart of the city and 30,000 cars pass right
by us every day.”
With a plan to offer all kinds of musical genres as well as
comedians in programming, interested musicians can get in
touch by dropping by the club or by emailing Hebert at
[email protected].
“Create a place for art and music and you build cultural
lifestyle downtown,” notes Hebert on what he hopes for a
successful run at the new downtown venue. “It doesn’t happen by
building another steak house and dance bar.”
“Hamilton has a great music scene in dire need of a first
class venue to showcase live music,” he adds. “Here is our next
effort. Waltz Live Music is one of the best facilities to come along
and throw their hat in the ring in many years. This is a venue we
want music lovers to know about and support.”
Catch Tony Monaco, Vito Rezza and Ted Quinlan Friday and
Saturday January 11 and 12 at Waltz Live Music Club, and blues
legend Mel Brown performs January 19. Tickets are $10 in
advance.

[raisethehammer]

a new deli opened in Jackson...called Deco Deli. From the outside it looks almost identical to the GO Station. very cool job at giving the 'deco' look to this place.
Not sure how long it will last a few doors up from the Hortons, but both times I've been by it's been busy.

[Jon Dalton]

Great news about the venue. I've been to Walts a few times but usually forget it's there. I hope they're successful at bringing more live jazz to the core, something that's seriously lacking from the music scene.

[FRM]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

a new deli opened in Jackson...called Deco Deli. From the outside it looks almost identical to the GO Station. very cool job at giving the 'deco' look to this place.
Not sure how long it will last a few doors up from the Hortons, but both times I've been by it's been busy.

i think it will do well, given the fact that there is always a huge lineup at tim hortons whenever i pass by. Some people will just opt for that instead of timmy's.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by FRM

i think it will do well, given the fact that there is always a huge lineup at tim hortons whenever i pass by. Some people will just opt for that instead of timmy's.

You'd think that, but it's not the first coffee shop to try to take advantage of that and fail. Most of the people in line at Tim's would not go anywhere else no matter how long the line is. As you'll notice, the Country Style and the other coffee place down the hall don't usually enjoy the best lines. Occasionally the Country Style gets a bit busy, but not too often.

Hamiltonians seem to be die hard fans of horrible coffee.

[flar]

You have to have a cheap good consistent coffee with a handy cup and lid if you want to compete with Tim's

[raisethehammer]

the stuff must have crack in it or something...it's so gross, yet people get so hooked.

[HAMRetrofit]

I really think that if Jackson Square is ever to be redeveloped it should be a housing project (condos and apartments) instead of a retail project. I think it is time to accept it as a failed mall. I think that some of the street facing sections of it should remain retail oriented and would become successful once the residential is complete. If the interior portions of the mall were gutted this could make an amazing housing project. Imagine retrofitting it with mixed use buildings that are 3-4 stories tall an recovering some of the original street grid.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

I really think that if Jackson Square is ever to be redeveloped it should be a housing project (condos and apartments) instead of a retail project. I think it is time to accept it as a failed mall. I think that some of the street facing sections of it should remain retail oriented and would become successful once the residential is complete. If the interior portions of the mall were gutted this could make an amazing housing project. Imagine retrofitting it with mixed use buildings that are 3-4 stories tall an recovering some of the original street grid.

I like your idea, but would do it a little differently. A hybrid retail/residential/office project.
The retail space CAN be successful again.
You are right to want to recapture some of the streetwall presence...3-4 storey buildings with shops facing the streets would do wonders for this.
However, given the number of highrises already on JS I'd like to see a few major condo towers built here as well. Height isn't a problem and it would add a huge infusion of residents.

[HAMRetrofit]

I just think it should be conceived as a large scale housing project instead of a revamping of a dead mall. I think that some of the retail spaces can be recovered but only after new residential spaces are developed and inhabited. Jackson Square is a perfect opportunity to develop more city housing and high end condos. Parking is already in place so that is another major plus.