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Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 12:22 PM
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Harry Stinson on downtown Hamilton

Best face forward
What do investors see in our downtown? Does the core attract or repel?

BY WADE HEMSWORTH
Hamilton Spectator

Through the objective eyes of outside business people, Hamilton is two places at the same time.

One is a blighted place of neglect and decay. The other is place of unrealized opportunity and potential.

Perceptions count. Hard facts such as square-foot costs for buildings are critical in deciding where to invest, but businesses must also consider what customers, employees — and bankers — will think when they announce they’re planning to set up in a new place.

When it comes to perception, it seems Hamilton could use a good scrubbing — quite literally.

Last month, Toronto developer Harry Stinson, sometimes called that city’s “Condo King,” came to Hamilton for a stroll around downtown. He ended up walking for nearly six hours — from the bay to the foot of the escarpment, from Wellington Street to Hess Village — fascinated, as he tried to figure out what was wrong and what was right.

Stinson had come at the invitation of Hamilton architect John Mokrycke, who was wanting to talk to him about speaking at an industry function.

Stinson’s most recent project, the redevelopment of a bank building and adjoining condo-hotel tower at King and Yonge streets in downtown Toronto, is wrapped up in receivership and legal snarls. Stinson has been in the news for months over his public battles with David Mirvish, backer of the 1 King West project.

But his trip to Hamilton left him eager to return and test the waters for working here, especially downtown, where a checkerboard of neglected and underused buildings and empty lots, dotted with pockets of success and creativity — he noted King William Street as one — left him intrigued, and somewhat puzzled.

“It’s a far more interesting city than people think,” he said. “It’s got a lot of potential. It’s got a lot of nice features, but I don’t know — it seemed sort of, despondent, if I can put it that way. It’s like people are resigned to it. I thought the downtown core was a bit scary, in the sense that there really was no visible effort by anybody to do anything.”

Stinson thinks the basic structure of downtown, especially King Street from Catharine to Bay streets, is a template for village-style urban living, with a human scale, pleasing vistas, a good helping of history and a potentially productive balance of commercial, office and living spaces.

But the reality of today’s downtown is dirty, dark and forbidding, he said, and it will take courage to mine the potential there. “If you look at the city, it’s like a giant doughnut. The perimeter, which isn’t that far away, is pretty conventional and stable. Then you hit the core, and it’s like you go through a time warp. There’s this malaise. You know how when you’re swimming in the lake and you hit these little cold patches? It’s like you walk into Hamilton and all of a sudden you hit this giant cold patch, and it’s the downtown core.”

Before he goes to City Hall to ask what planning support he might expect, he plans to meet informally with community leaders to test their will to create change. He will need all the support he can get, he said, before he even thinks of bringing lenders downtown and asking for their backing.

But if he and others like him can get broad support, he said, downtown could become a pleasant place to live, work, eat and shop, especially with what he describes as the inevitable westward migration from overcrowded and overpriced Toronto. Like so many, Stinson says the timing and the effect of that migration will depend on establishing all-day, full GO train service to downtown Hamilton.

Ron Adams sees much the same double edge. He has spent half a century in the business of scouting, selecting and leasing commercial sites in Canada.

Now based in Burlington, Adams describes his job as “real estate counsel.”

His experience includes finding the site and helping to develop the White Oaks Mall in London, Ont., selecting sites for seven Holiday Inns across the province, finding sites for 50 Goodyear tire stores across Canada and participating in redevelopment of the Historic Properties in downtown Halifax.

Like Stinson, he sees potential, though he believes the richest area for development is along its highway corridors, especially the industrial lands between The Spectator building near Main and Frid streets and the nascent McMaster Innovation Park at Longwood Road and Aberdeen Avenue.

Like Stinson, he says the potential is obscured as Hamilton has failed to correct old perceptions, which it could easily rectify by creating welcoming entrances, especially where Highway 403 joins Aberdeen Avenue and Main Street — which he refers to as Hamilton’s front door. It would only take a little, he said, to change perceptions a lot.

“Hamilton, it seems to me, is a hell of a lot more than the image of the steel plants that you see from the QEW, but I think that image still lives. The image people have of an area is what they get from a car window or a bus when they’re driving by.”
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Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 12:23 PM
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'Condo King' to speak at United Way fundraiser

The Hamilton Spectator
(Nov 20, 2007)

"I thought (Hamilton's) downtown core was a bit scary, in the sense that there really was no visible effort by anybody to do anything."

Toronto's "Condo King," Harry Stinson, doesn't mince words. Nor does he hide his firm belief that downtown Hamilton has good bones in its buildings and lots of potential.

He's coming to town tonight, as the first in the occasional Acclamation Speaker Series, organized as a fundraiser for the United Way of Burlington and Greater Hamilton.

Darrel Skidmore, the United Way's CEO, is delighted and says the evening is also an excellent opportunity to raise the agency's profile.

The event will be held at the Acclamation Bar and Grill, 191 James St. N., from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m.

Tickets are $60 each. Contact Acclamation at 905-523-7269.

Stinson is president of Stinson Properties Inc. His most recent project in Toronto was the development of a bank building and adjoining condo-hotel tower at King and Yonge streets that has become wrapped up in receivership and legal snarls.
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Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 4:40 PM
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I agree about the aberdeen exit. it needs to be really dressed up. However I think that crreating aberdeen as a "Gateway" to the city is part of the inno park plan. Maybe not the site plan, but mcmaster as well as the architects i think have an assumption that the city should/will fix that area up so that it gives a "wow" factor when driving in to hamilton

I attended the seminar by the architects for inno park a couple years ago (it was awesome by the way). The head architect said that in his opinion, the drive in to hamilton on the 403 is the most beautiful approach to a city in all of canada... i think he's right. coming from toronto, you pass cootes and the high level bridge, the cathedral... it's awesome. coming from the west you descend the escarpment with an aerial view of the entire city. pretty amazing when you think of it

then the aberdeen exit is kinda like this throwaway afterthought of a ramp, and it spits you out into an industrial wasteland. or you exit at main east and are immediately thrown into the fray where you have to navigate 6 lanes of one way high speed traffic barreling down on your ass. it sucks.

it would be awesome if aberdeen was actually treated as the main entrance to the city. lots of potential there to dress it up...
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Old Posted Nov 20, 2007, 11:45 PM
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interesting stuff here.
What is Stinson up to?? We know the guy is hurting financially...would he, by chance, be eyeing Hamilton for a possible project in an effort to start making some coin again??
could a guy like him even make money in a city like this?? I don't know much about him other than his attempt to 'trump Trump' in TO, and then got into receivership trouble etc....
suddenly the guy seems to be keen on making a name for himself in the Hammer.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 12:07 AM
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Stinson needs to make money especially with court cases and so on. So he's probably looking at Hamilton as a great way to make a good profit. It's cheap to build at Hamilton compared to the GTA and he'll probably sell his units for his asking price and therefore made more money than he would in the GTA.

I see the whole area from Longwood to Cooste Dr in West Hamilton becoming a hot spot for residential development because it has easy access to the 403 and the closest to the GTA.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:04 AM
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I met a friend for coffee tonight at Acclamation and he was in there giving his speech.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 12:18 PM
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Fresh vision for the city of steel
'Condo King' sees potential behind bad designs, brick walls; Hamilton Next


Toronto developer Harry Stinson has been walking around Hamilton. There's a lot of potential here, he says. Don't hide your light, he says of Hamiltonians. Be confident, and where it's dark (old Eaton Centre), open it to the light.

November 21, 2007
John Burman
The Hamilton Spectator

Thoughts on Hamilton from Toronto developer Harry "The Condo King" Stinson:

* Hamilton's future lies in intellectual property, not steel.

* Steel will not be here forever. The land Dofasco and U.S. Steel sit on will always be in Hamilton and it has great value. The death of steel could be a new beginning.

Stinson was brought to Hamilton last night by architect John Mockryke, president of Stinson Properties Inc., to address a fundraiser for the Burlington and Greater Hamilton United Way

His most recent project in Toronto was the development of a former bank building and adjoining condo-hotel tower at King and Yonge streets which has gone into receivership amid legal wrangling with investors that had Stinson musing about leaving Canada for the United States.

But Stinson -- who founded the Groaning Board restaurant in Toronto, picked up kids in red hearses for birthday parties at his Mad Hatter party warehouse, got into real estate and then development -- instead began walking around downtown Hamilton.

"I didn't understand why my brother moved here three years ago," he said.

Now he's looking at houses himself.

Between snatches of Monty Python skits and deadpan impressions of Donald Trump, Stinson offered short, sharp snapshots of Hamilton:

* * *

"We are intrigued by the potential of the city, the opportunities to do something and the opportunity to make a difference."

* * *

"If the steel companies close down, it could be the birth of the city. I suspect those companies bought Hamilton steel companies to shut them down, but the land is fixable."

* * *

A handful of families control much of the downtown property with potential.

They are waiting to make a lot of money, but will not make a dime more if redevelopment isn't given a chance to begin.

* * *

Individually, Hamiltonians are optimistic about the future of the city and the downtown.

Collectively they shrug and say, "Oh well."

* * *

Lloyd D. Jackson Square and the Eaton Centre (now Hamilton City Centre) didn't kill the downtown core.

"It's just a badly designed mall that needs to be opened up. Do that and these streets will fill up with people.

* * *

If you believe in your community, invest in it. Hamilton needs a development fund so the money is ready when someone finally decides to sell a piece of property with great potential to start a renaissance. Until then everything seems "totally inert."

* * *

"I just keep walking around. The right property will come along. I believe the Connaught Hotel could be that property which starts things off. I was interested in doing something there before."

* * *

The Connaught sits in "a perfect civic square."

* * *

The Pigott Building (condos) is dark. "It needs lights. It doesn't look like anyone's there. LED lights are cheap."

* * *

The Hamilton City Centre: "It's dead. Needs windows. All you see are hundreds of feet of buff brick walls. It looks like a dentist got into the development business."

* * *

People want interesting ideas. they will buy them and live in them.

* * *

Hamilton is plagued with a "'Why try?' feeling."
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 2:46 PM
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As much as I feel he is toying with Hamilton just because he's having problems in Toronto, he really is correct on a lot of his thoughts and suggestions for the city.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see if he puts his money where his mouth is and helps out the situation here personally.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 2:58 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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yup, he is bang on in his assessment of the Hammer.
I didn't know his brother moved here....i'm sure this guy has good connections with banks, developers etc.... he very well might try to do a few projects here in order to help himself financially.
Heck, look at the other guys developing downtown right now - one group alleged to be associated with the mob, another couple with criminal backgrounds, others who got into financial messes just like Stinson, another guy raping girls in Hess.
Safe to say this industry doesn't have a whole lot of wholesome characters (at least in the Hammer).
Stinson would be a nice change since he's done bigger and better things than these other guys in the city. He knows how to design/build something that would be completely new and unique to the Hammer (no more City View Terrace or Chateau Royale 80's condos)
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:25 PM
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I wish Chateau Royale was done more 80's structure-wise.
Their walls are figgin paper thin... I wldn't be surprised if the units were seperated by drywall alone.
My bldg's walls are like a half foot thick and is pure cement! I've NEVER heard any noise from any of my neighbours. My friend in CR, however, gets noise complaints a lot.

I dunno about this Stinson guy... I'm very hesitant to trust any developer in this city. HOWEVER, if he wanted to take over the Connaught project with financial guarantees, then he'll be my #1 new hero!
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 4:43 PM
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ya, there's something about him i don't like but he's better than the rapists and mobsters we've got developing properties in this town today.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 6:04 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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heck, Trump is a class-A jerk too. seems to be the norm in this industry.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
heck, Trump is a class-A jerk too. seems to be the norm in this industry.
I think you have to be or else people will walk all over you.

Ever watched Brad Lamb on HGTV? OMG he's an a**hole!!!
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Wonder if Stinson ever thought about building a condo at John and Main, former gas station. Perfect spot for a condo, close to Gore Park and steps away from GO Station. Plus it's at a busy intersection so it'll get the exposure.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 7:22 PM
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Wonder if Stinson ever thought about building a condo at John and Main, former gas station. Perfect spot for a condo, close to Gore Park and steps away from GO Station. Plus it's at a busy intersection so it'll get the exposure.
Plus it's at a super-important transit hub (King, Beeline, all Delewares)...
It'll be even more important once our LRT is built.
That lot is a GOLDMINE!!
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 7:24 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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he's probably thought about a lot of ideas.
he's so right about Connaught and it's setting in Gore Park.
He'd probably do a great patio out front facing all of Gore Park and surrounding streetscape. we need someone with fresh ideas and vision instead of the tired old 'demolition by neglect' routine we see from LIUNA/HiRise or the outright 'demolition' we see from so many other pea-brained groups in town.
He did an awesome job with 1 King West in TO. One of the few (new) buildings in that city that I admire.
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Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 7:31 PM
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^^ 1KingW is one of my favourite bldgs in TO! It's so sleak n sexy and makes so much sense (re: incorporating old bldgs into new architecture).

Toronto, however, have a by-law protecting all heritage bldgs. Hamilton City Hall doesn't give a crap about heritage anything. Sometimes it seems our Heritage Committee doesn't either.

Our core would have been in MUCH better shape had we kept the majority of lost bldgs: old market at market square, old City Hall, Birks Bldg and the list goes on.

Instead they pretend to incorporate these heritage bldgs and then decide that it's
unsafe for development" b/c it's sat empty for 1.5yrs. Last time I checked, Connaught is still standing (4yrs later)... Lister is still standing (15yrs later), Trebble Hall... and so on...
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Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 1:10 AM
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Wonder if Stinson ever thought about building a condo at John and Main, former gas station. Perfect spot for a condo, close to Gore Park and steps away from GO Station. Plus it's at a busy intersection so it'll get the exposure.
Do you really want Stinson developing in Hamilton? There is no doubt that One King West is an amazing building the way it fits into its site, etc.

But Stinson really cheaped out on the details and did not fully think everything through.

I got to stay in One King West in one of the hotel rooms. And while the building is impressive, Stinson did a lousy job in many regards. He left exposed breaker panals in the rooms, the hot tub is shoved in a corner not taking advantage of any views or anything. The lobby is not grand like the old building use to have, and he left lots of details unfinnished, like walls not fully painted, etc. His opening I feel because of these things was very unprofessional. You don't open a hotel when you are still painting the hallways, and have plywood on the floors, etc.
He has good ideas, but does not pull in the details.
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Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 2:32 PM
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Stinson's definitely up to something. He wrote a letter to the Spec today.
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Old Posted Nov 26, 2007, 2:35 PM
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Hamilton is more than just steel mills

Harry Stinson
The Hamilton Spectator
Toronto
(Nov 26, 2007)

Re: 'Fresh vision for the city of steel; 'Condo King' sees potential behind bad designs, brick walls; Hamilton Next' (Nov. 21)

I understand there has been a substantial -- in some cases, angry -- reaction regarding my comments on the role of the steel industry in Hamilton's future. Please allow me to clarify what I meant.

My intent in commenting on the future of the steel mills was to suggest that Hamilton should not disproportionately rely on the immortality of two major steel mills as the linchpins of the local economy. It is significant to note that health sciences and academic activities are already far larger local employers, with strong growth momentum.

The comparative positive image of nearby Kitchener-Waterloo is significant, although Hamilton itself enjoys a geographically superior location from a transportation perspective as well as a visually appealing landscape.

While steel is certainly important, it should also be noted that one of the best possible "industries" for a contemporary city to encourage is high-density residential accommodation. In addition to the initial benefits of construction employment and residual spinoffs, urban housing brings enormous lasting employment growth in service, retail, and entertainment sectors.

Significantly, communities that are seen as attractive places in which to live also enjoy superior related growth in technology businesses, because people who work in such fields are very sensitive to "quality of life" factors.

In summary, the objective is to achieve a more broadly based economy for Hamilton, in which there is room -- and equal support -- for more than just the steel industry.

Furthermore, the debate itself is healthy for the community. I offered the comments in good faith because I am seriously intrigued by the opportunity to become involved in Hamilton's future.
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