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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 3:55 AM
Emprise du Lion Emprise du Lion is offline
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
I’ve always found it odd that in St Louis the signs for I-44 say Tulsa, while in Tulsa the signs say Joplin. I would think Springfield would make more sense for both cities..?
I'd never thought about it, but I would assume that was done in order to not confuse people as to what Springfield. St. Louis is far closer to Springfield, IL than it is Springfield, MO, and you have a few miles in the city where 44 and 55 are the same interstate. I'm sure you'd have at least a few oblivious drivers thinking they're going the wrong way.
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:14 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I feel like Chicago doesn't really rely much on control cities. Most of the signs in Chicago seem to be pointing drivers towards states. Can't really even think of another place that uses states as the control instead of a large city like Chicago does.
Ahem:









These are all signs that deal with I-275, the 83-mile circumferential expressway that travels through three states. The section in Indiana is very short, maybe 2.5 miles, with a single exit serving the town of Lawrenceburg, IN.

What's weird is that the section in Ohio north of the Ohio River doesn't use Lawrenceburg as a control, but rather "Kentucky". Meanwhile, the Kentucky section uses Lawrenceburg as the control, not "Ohio". There might be an Ohio sign somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Chicago

Cities not in the Chicagoland area that you see:

Rockford, St Louis, Milwaukee, Memphis

States: Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa

In St Louis:

Chicago, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Memphis, Tulsa

States:

Illinois

I’m not a fan of what interstates did to cities, but I like talking about them.

Last edited by Xing; Nov 29, 2023 at 5:15 PM.
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Emprise du Lion View Post
I'd never thought about it, but I would assume that was done in order to not confuse people as to what Springfield. St. Louis is far closer to Springfield, IL than it is Springfield, MO, and you have a few miles in the city where 44 and 55 are the same interstate. I'm sure you'd have at least a few oblivious drivers thinking they're going the wrong way.
In Memphis, I-55 specifies Jackson, Miss due to the proximity of Jackson, TN.
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Last edited by ChiSoxRox; Nov 29, 2023 at 6:32 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
These are all signs that deal with I-275, the 83-mile circumferential expressway that travels through three states. The section in Indiana is very short, maybe 2.5 miles, with a single exit serving the town of Lawrenceburg, IN.

What's weird is that the section in Ohio north of the Ohio River doesn't use Lawrenceburg as a control, but rather "Kentucky". Meanwhile, the Kentucky section uses Lawrenceburg as the control, not "Ohio". There might be an Ohio sign somewhere, but I couldn't find it.
Are states only used as the control on the section near where Indiana, or through the loop?

Thinking about the control city in an NYC context, in the past "New England" has been used as the control sign on I-278 (and maybe I-95), but I think most/all have since been converted to New Haven to be uniform with I-95. I-495 uses "Eastern Long Island" as a control sign.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:38 PM
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I fly into Syracuse a lot and the signs connecting I-81 to I-90 (Thruway) split off to 90W Buffalo and 90E Albany and wish they would use the closest cities; Rochester and Utica respectively.
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:43 PM
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I'm curious what the most distant control city signage is.

I-10 in Texas is the winner so far. 554 miles west to El Paso in San Antonio and El Paso returns the favor.

Other long ones:

I-80 spliting from I-15 in Salt Lake City has Reno as the control city. Downtown Reno is 517 miles from that sign. However, Reno uses Elko as the eastbound control city. Going the other way on I-80, Cheyenne is 440 miles.

At the I-10/I-20 split, Dallas and Fort Worth are listed, with downtown Dallas being 465 miles from the split.

At the I-17/I-40 split in Flagstaff, Los Angeles is 465 miles.

Vegas to Salt Lake? 421 miles

(The farthest NYC sign I've found in Ohio is 396 miles from the GWB.)
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Last edited by ChiSoxRox; Nov 29, 2023 at 7:03 PM. Reason: rearrange
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post

Also weird to see Memphis signs on the Dan Ryan in Chicago.
that really puzzled me when I drove to Chicago this summer (from London, Ontario). Memphis? jeez, my understanding of geography was challenged.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Another fun one is this sign for Des Moines...in Indiana.
yes, I recall seeing this when I travelled to Chicago. Weird.
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:49 PM
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The 401 Eastbound past Toronto uses Kingston as a Control sign, then Cornwall (the latter is a two-bit city of 45K). Montreal (4.4 million) is ignored, aside from a few mileage distance signs.



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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 7:53 PM
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Personally, I think all control signage should be standardized to include two cities:

• the next closest metropolitan core city that is larger than the metropolitan or micropolitan area in which the sign is located.
• the closest core city in a specific list of the largest metropolitan areas in the country, if it differs from the above

If in a rural area, the next closest metropolitan or micropolitan core city and the next closest large metropolitan area (again, if it differs).

States should also be used in any metropolitan area which straddles or abuts any state line and may be used as an additional marker elsewhere (rather than as a replacement).
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ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 8:24 PM
Gantz Gantz is offline
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Personally, I think all control signage should be standardized to include two cities:

• the next closest metropolitan core city that is larger than the metropolitan or micropolitan area in which the sign is located.
• the closest core city in a specific list of the largest metropolitan areas in the country, if it differs from the above

If in a rural area, the next closest metropolitan or micropolitan core city and the next closest large metropolitan area (again, if it differs).

States should also be used in any metropolitan area which straddles or abuts any state line and may be used as an additional marker elsewhere (rather than as a replacement).
Those criteria may not work in some instances. There are a lot of weird things and exceptions about US geography that makes these uniform rules not practical in certain cases. Try following your rules in NYC for example. A lot of the control cities wouldn't be where majority of the people following those signs would be going. Control cities for the entire Bos-Wash will be weird following your rule going west. They'd have to pick "the closest core city in a specific list of the largest metropolitan areas in the country". Depending on how large this list is...all roads will lead to Chicago or something.
What even is the closest metro outside of NYC metro going west if you want to go, for example, to Newark International airport? Scranton? lol
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Those criteria may not work in some instances. There are a lot of weird things and exceptions about US geography that makes these uniform rules not practical in certain cases. Try following your rules in NYC for example. A lot of the control cities wouldn't be where majority of the people following those signs would be going. Control cities for the entire Bos-Wash will be weird following your rule going west. They'd have to pick "the closest core city in a specific list of the largest metropolitan areas in the country". Depending on how large this list is...all roads will lead to Chicago or something.
What even is the closest metro outside of NYC metro going west if you want to go, for example, to Newark International airport? Scranton? lol
Okay, that’s fair.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 9:37 PM
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"Canada" is used as a control in Detroit, but not Windsor. I believe "USA" is used as the control on the Canadian side instead of "Detroit".
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 9:45 PM
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It's always been interesting to me that the 405 in LA lists 'Santa Monica' as the control city NB and SB from either direction, when in fact Santa Monica is well to the west of the 405. 'West LA' or 'LAX' would make more sense. From north of the 10, the 405 lists Sacramento as the control city. South of the 10 it is San Diego.

On westbound I-10 in Phoenix, it lists Los Angeles as the control city, which actually makes sense even if 400ish miles away. Same thing on I-5 from Sacramento.
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
It's always been interesting to me that the 405 in LA lists 'Santa Monica' as the control city NB and SB from either direction, when in fact Santa Monica is well to the west of the 405. 'West LA' or 'LAX' would make more sense. From north of the 10, the 405 lists Sacramento as the control city. South of the 10 it is San Diego.
Actually, it does make sense to me. Going south on the 405 from say, the San Fernando Valley, the control city is "Santa Monica," but then when you get to the 10, the control city for the westbound 10 is "Santa Monica," so that's how you would continue on to Santa Monica. Continuing south on the 405 at the 10, the control city is then "LAX/Long Beach." When you get to the 105, the control city is "Long Beach" (because you're directed to the westbound 105 if you want to go to LAX). Past Long Beach, if I remember correctly, the control city becomes "Irvine/San Diego," and then past Irvine, it becomes "San Diego."

Control cities (at least in California) aren't to be taken literally; they're just a general direction kind of thing. Many years ago, I remember a coworker saying "I don't know why the 405 south says "San Diego," the 405 doesn't even go into San Diego." I was like 'forehead slap.'
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
all roads will lead to Chicago or something.
Already sorta kinda true.

I believe Chicagoland is home to more 2-digit interstate routes than any other MSA, with 7 of them

I-55 (a major N/S trunk connecting Chicago to New Orleans)
I-57 (a rural Illinois route connecting Chicago to Cairo)
I-65 (a major N/S trunk connecting Gary to Mobile, AL)
I-80 (a major E/W trunk connecting NYC to SF)
I-88 (a rural Illinois route connecting Chicago to the Quad Cities)
I-90 (a major E/W trunk connecting Boston to Seattle)
I-94 (a major E/W trunk connecting Detroit to Billings, MT)

Some of that is due to the presence of the great lakes/canada, which force both I-90 & I-94 to bend south to I-80's latitude to get around them. In fact, I-90 routes concurrently with I-80 from Cleveland to Chicago specifically because the great lakes/canada get in the way (it's the longest route concurrency on the entire interstate system).

And some of that is also due to IL's overzealous DOT that built some rather dubious rural interstates radiating out from Chicago with questionable need for full interstate status, like I-57 and I-88.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 29, 2023 at 10:33 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 10:20 PM
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Another cool sign and there are several that say the same:

Source
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
I'm curious what the most distant control city signage is.

I-10 in Texas is the winner so far. 554 miles west to El Paso in San Antonio and El Paso returns the favor.

Other long ones:

I-80 spliting from I-15 in Salt Lake City has Reno as the control city. Downtown Reno is 517 miles from that sign. However, Reno uses Elko as the eastbound control city. Going the other way on I-80, Cheyenne is 440 miles.

At the I-10/I-20 split, Dallas and Fort Worth are listed, with downtown Dallas being 465 miles from the split.

At the I-17/I-40 split in Flagstaff, Los Angeles is 465 miles.

Vegas to Salt Lake? 421 miles

(The farthest NYC sign I've found in Ohio is 396 miles from the GWB.)
Probably going to be somewhere out west. Cities in the east are pretty close to each other compared to out west.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
Another cool sign and there are several that say the same:

Source
Is that along the 5 where you either continue on to Sacramento or take 580/880/80 into SF?
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