Observations on very recent immigration trends for your City

[RST500]

Originally Posted by RST500

EAST BAY NEWS
El Cerrito restaurant catering to fast-growing Nepalese community in Contra Costa County:

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco...-costa-county/

500% Nepali growth in Contra Costa County from 2010 to 2020. El Cerrito is emerging as a Nepali enclave.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by RST500

How much of this Indian growth is dependent upon tech expansion? There are also a lot of Indian migrants at the border who tend to be much poorer. Generally tech Indian immigrants are mostly Telegu and migrants at border are mostly Punjabi.

A lot of Indians work professional jobs outside of tech. Go to any major metropolitan hospital and look at the share of Indian docs. Look at the automotive industry or any engineering concern. Yeah, the Indians in SV are probably in tech, but when you see growing populations in places like Toledo and Fort Wayne, you know it's much more than tech.

And Indians seem to love McMansion sprawl living. Go to McMansiony parts of your local metro, and you're likely to see a significant Indian share. A McMansion and his-and-her Teslas are stereotypes.

It's also quite clear that recently arrived Indians in the U.S. are generally from the very upper echelons of Indian society. The Indians I've worked with typically had a multitude of in-house servants growing up, went to Western schools, and have parents who flew them abroad for vacations. It's likely the 1% or .5% of Indian society. I believe Canada, Europe and Australia have a much more economically mixed group of Indian arrivals.

[Steely Dan]

^ yeah, lots of Indian-Americans are in tech, no doubt, but here in Chicagoland, very noticeable presences in medicine, engineering, any kind of hard science field as well.

[MolsonExport]

Indians, followed by Filipinos, have been the largest immigrant source groups for Canadian immigrants for nearly 10 years. And our immigration intake is currently at its highest ever level.
Places like Brampton (650K+, a large suburb of Toronto) are majority East-Indian. I believe that Delta in Vancouver is heavily East-Indian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's also quite clear that recently arrived Indians in the U.S. are generally from the very upper echelons of Indian society. The Indians I've worked with typically had a multitude of in-house servants growing up, went to Western schools, and have parents who flew them abroad for vacations. It's likely the 1% or .5% of Indian society. I believe Canada, Europe and Australia have a much more economically mixed group of Indian arrivals.

Indians in the US today come from pretty economically mixed backgrounds, which is why it was such a big deal when California's governor vetoed the bill banning discrimination by caste. I have encountered people in corporate America that originated from high and low castes in India.

Europe is a different story, though, particularly within Britain. British Indians started migrating post WW2 and were much poorer, since they were mostly brought in to fill working class roles (alongside Afro Caribbeans during the Windrush era). Even today British Indians skew way more working class than Indian Americans, who mostly came to the U.S. through highly skilled worker visas.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And Indians seem to love McMansion sprawl living. Go to McMansiony parts of your local metro, and you're likely to see a significant Indian share. A McMansion and his-and-her Teslas are stereotypes.

It is interesting how different wealthy demographic groups can be very clearly tied to specific housing types.

In my experience in the GTA, wealthy Indian immigrants make up a huge portion of those who own those ridiculously oversized, often gaudy, country estates. The type just outside the city boundaries across the street from a farmers field with acres of lawn to maintain.





Meanwhile, wealthy Chinese are much more drawn to high end subdivisions with small lots, and increasingly often, basement walk-out units for relatives. This subdivision was roughly about 85% Chinese buyers based on a quick check of the land registry.

[MolsonExport]

Wholly McMansions, Batman!

[nito]

Not on a city level, but the latest migration statistics for the UK (for the YE June 2023) have been released showing net migration to the UK of 672,000. That is the second highest year on record, but only because the YE June 2022 figure was revised upwards from 607,000 to 745,000. The figures are pretty extraordinary, with non-EU migration reaching unseen levels, and speculation that most of the growth is due to migration from India and Nigeria. Throw in natural change of up to 100,000, and I don’t think the country has seen such a substantial increase in population in its history.

I’m incredibly pro-migration, but there are legitimate question marks over how sustainable this is, from an infrastructure and integration perspective, particularly for a country smaller than the state of Oregon.

Source: ONS: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...endingjune2023

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Indians in the US today come from pretty economically mixed backgrounds, which is why it was such a big deal when California's governor vetoed the bill banning discrimination by caste. I have encountered people in corporate America that originated from high and low castes in India.

Europe is a different story, though, particularly within Britain. British Indians started migrating post WW2 and were much poorer, since they were mostly brought in to fill working class roles (alongside Afro Caribbeans during the Windrush era). Even today British Indians skew way more working class than Indian Americans, who mostly came to the U.S. through highly skilled worker visas.

This is a bit too simplistic a review, particularly with Indian heritage migrants from East Africa, case in example, Rishi Sunak the current Prime Minister. The Indian (like all other) diaspora is very broad in its composition.

The recently departed Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, who held one of the four great offices of the UK Government, and who ironically bemoaned multiculturalism has a Hindu Tamil Mauritian mother and Christian Goan Kenyan father, whilst identifying as a Buddhist and is married to a Jewish man.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

A lot of Indians work professional jobs outside of tech. Go to any major metropolitan hospital and look at the share of Indian docs. Look at the automotive industry or any engineering concern. Yeah, the Indians in SV are probably in tech, but when you see growing populations in places like Toledo and Fort Wayne, you know it's much more than tech.

And Indians seem to love McMansion sprawl living. Go to McMansiony parts of your local metro, and you're likely to see a significant Indian share. A McMansion and his-and-her Teslas are stereotypes.

It's also quite clear that recently arrived Indians in the U.S. are generally from the very upper echelons of Indian society. The Indians I've worked with typically had a multitude of in-house servants growing up, went to Western schools, and have parents who flew them abroad for vacations. It's likely the 1% or .5% of Indian society. I believe Canada, Europe and Australia have a much more economically mixed group of Indian arrivals.

The large Houston suburb of Cypress, where I am moving to in January, has a high concentration of medical facilities. When I started looking for new doctors, including specialists, all but one on the insurance "in-network" list were Indian. That's based on my insurance. My sister, who lives in the same area, has different insurance but all Indian doctors.

[muppet]

British Indians are the highest earning ethnic group in the UK, they earn on average 20% more than White British. The five most powerful people in the British Isles rn happen to have South Asian ancestry -the British Prime Minister, Home Secretary (though she was sacked this week), First Minister of Scotland, Mayor of London and Irish Prime Minister.

Unrelated, but the richest people/ dynasty in the country are also of South Asian descent, the Hinduja brothers.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by nito

This is a bit too simplistic a review, particularly with Indian heritage migrants from East Africa, case in example, Rishi Sunak the current Prime Minister. The Indian (like all other) diaspora is very broad in its composition.

The recently departed Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, who held one of the four great offices of the UK Government, and who ironically bemoaned multiculturalism has a Hindu Tamil Mauritian mother and Christian Goan Kenyan father, whilst identifying as a Buddhist and is married to a Jewish man.

I don't think this contradicts my point. Indian immigration to the United States is almost thoroughly restricted to highly educated people working in white collar industries. Indians have come to the UK under much broader criteria than they've been able to immigrate to the US. Indians are the biggest category of educated immigrants in the US because of the country's size, but you see the same thing for immigrants to the US from almost any region*. Most African immigrants coming to the US are also highly educated and work in white collar industries.

*Pretty much the only way to legally immigrate to the U.S. and become a permanent resident is come as a highly skilled professional or extraordinarily skilled person, a refugee, or be a close relative of someone who checks one of those boxes.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't think this contradicts my point. Indian immigration to the United States is almost thoroughly restricted to highly educated people working in white collar industries. Indians have come to the UK under much broader criteria than they've been able to immigrate to the US. Indians are the biggest category of educated immigrants in the US because of the country's size, but you see the same thing for immigrants to the US from almost any region*. Most African immigrants coming to the US are also highly educated and work in white collar industries.

*Pretty much the only way to legally immigrate to the U.S. and become a permanent resident is come as a highly skilled professional or extraordinarily skilled person, a refugee, or be a close relative of someone who checks one of those boxes.

Right, the U.S. has weird immigration rules relative to other developed Western nations. It's highly bifurcated, with most legal immigration either "elite" or relatives of "elite". Sanjay from Chennai is a highly paid engineer in suburban MI and eventually brings his parents. On the other extreme there's the undocumented/refugee/temp visa crowd, indispensable to the economy but a political hot potato and living on the precipice.

Western European and Canadian immigration is much more broad-based, and better displays the gamut of socioeconomic diversity. The U.S. is simultaneously tougher and more desirable for professionals, so gets to pick and choose, but the massive costs, delays and political blowback are bad for long-term competitiveness and productivity.

[wwmiv]

Although your point is factual, it does overlook that we do let in many middle class immigrants as well (even if proportionally they are a smaller share than in other countries’ distributions), e.g. people who family-own, operate, manage, and staff motels, one-off gas stations, ethnic restaurants, tailoring businesses, and similar enterprises.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right, the U.S. has weird immigration rules relative to other developed Western nations. It's highly bifurcated, with most legal immigration either "elite" or relatives of "elite". Sanjay from Chennai is a highly paid engineer in suburban MI and eventually brings his parents. On the other extreme there's the undocumented/refugee/temp visa crowd, indispensable to the economy but a political hot potato and living on the precipice.

Western European and Canadian immigration is much more broad-based, and better displays the gamut of socioeconomic diversity. The U.S. is simultaneously tougher and more desirable for professionals, so gets to pick and choose, but the massive costs, delays and political blowback are bad for long-term competitiveness and productivity.

Isn't the temp visa/worker type a kind of migrant that has a long history outside the US in other western nations too... I mean, for Canada there's been the recent wave of temporary workers but also you have this history with the Gastarbeiter program in Germany.

Also how recent has the difference in selectivity been? I mean, many western countries became more open to immigration post WWII and post 1950s/60s, with the US having famously really open borders to Europeans during the Ellis Island days but I get the impression that the increased toughness for immigrants legally entering the US has ramped up even compared to say the 90s or something, like you hear about these backlogs of people waiting decades for green cards.

So, would the story be different if you compared a 1965 immigrant to Canada, the US or Europe to a 1995, or 2005 one, vs. today?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Although your point is factual, it does overlook that we do let in many middle class immigrants as well (even if proportionally they are a smaller share than in other countries’ distributions), e.g. people who family-own, operate, manage, and staff motels, one-off gas stations, ethnic restaurants, tailoring businesses, and similar enterprises.

Historically yes, but not in the present. The current legal immigration system overwhelmingly favors highly skilled professionals and their blood relatives, and marriages. If you want to come to the U.S. legally, and in a time period measured in years, not decades, you better be highly skilled or directly related to someone highly skilled, or you need to marry an American.

[proghousehead]

The Bangladeshi population in NYC appears to be fairly “poor” in comparison with Indian immigrants - and their numbers have absolutely exploded here (I believe now the third largest Asian immigrant group after Chinese and Indians and well over 100k in the city proper). How does that work when the US supposedly only allows immigration for educated/well off folk?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Historically yes, but not in the present. The current legal immigration system overwhelmingly favors highly skilled professionals and their blood relatives, and marriages. If you want to come to the U.S. legally, and in a time period measured in years, not decades, you better be highly skilled or directly related to someone highly skilled, or you need to marry an American.

Isn't this family-related chain migration still able to have a moderating effect on selectivity towards the highly skilled since there are probably still relatives of existing citizens that immigrated during a time that was far less highly selective (though I'd imagine it'd decrease over time, if even say, a generation ago, or the 90s, if not farther back, were less selective than today, then there are still relatives of the less-highly selected that have come to balance things out).

[Xing]

Thanks to Texas, Chicago has new Latinos - most of them Venezuelans. While it may have been more than the city can handle (there are not enough places for them to stay, apparently), I think they’ll fit in just as many other Latinos have. It’s tough to say where they’ll settle, but I’ve been seeing quite a few in Pilsen. As of now, most Latinos in Chicago are Mexican, followed by Puerto Ricans.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Wholly McMansions, Batman!

A few McMansion nuggets at the end there.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

The Bangladeshi population in NYC appears to be fairly “poor” in comparison with Indian immigrants - and their numbers have absolutely exploded here (I believe now the third largest Asian immigrant group after Chinese and Indians and well over 100k in the city proper). How does that work when the US supposedly only allows immigration for educated/well off folk?

There is one other method of legal immigration that I didn't mention: diversity lottery. Citizens of countries with relatively low levels of immigration to the United States are eligible to participate in a lottery program, and if they are chosen they receive a green card without going through the typical process. Bangladeshis are excluded from participating in the next lottery. So they could have come through this program or through family sponsorship programs.

[RST500]

Bloomberg stats on recent migrant wave by countries of origin and destinations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...t-destinations