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  #11701  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 5:02 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by HarbingerDe View Post

I have an engineering degree. I make $70,000/yr. Yet between paying off my student loans, and paying for the car (that I need to reliably commute to my job) I cannot afford to live in this city. Hell I can barely afford to split a 2-bedroom apartment in this city if I want to contribute to my savings.
I make only a little more, but because I'm A: in a relationship with another income earner and B: bought a house nine years ago, before prices went through the roof, my costs of living are relatively low and I'm easily able to have a decent house in the North End, lots of money for saving and trips, etc. This is purely due to lucky timing on my part. If I had waited a few more years to buy, I'd be effectively priced out of the peninsula. Realistically I could afford a nice one-bedroom in a new development, but it would eat up far more of my income and leave precious little for savings, etc. I have plenty of friends just a handful of years younger than me in that situation, who are either priced out, despite making reasonable incomes, or who are spending an unreasonable amount of their income on shelter.

So I think it's absolutely fair to critique the "boomer NIMBY groups". I've seen their Facebook posts too, and it's true that for the most part they appear to be composed of very well-housed folks, 50-plus or 60-plus, who have been homeowners for decades and who are insulated from the personal effects of the housing shortage but who are very affronted at the idea that their neighbourhoods are set to evolve significantly. There is very much a sensibility that the current form of their neighbourhoods is ideal, that attempts to change it are somehow an attack on their communities, and the more they can slow down densification and housing growth the better.
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  #11702  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 6:49 PM
Dartguard Dartguard is online now
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
I make only a little more, but because I'm A: in a relationship with another income earner and B: bought a house nine years ago, before prices went through the roof, my costs of living are relatively low and I'm easily able to have a decent house in the North End, lots of money for saving and trips, etc. This is purely due to lucky timing on my part. If I had waited a few more years to buy, I'd be effectively priced out of the peninsula. Realistically I could afford a nice one-bedroom in a new development, but it would eat up far more of my income and leave precious little for savings, etc. I have plenty of friends just a handful of years younger than me in that situation, who are either priced out, despite making reasonable incomes, or who are spending an unreasonable amount of their income on shelter.

So I think it's absolutely fair to critique the "boomer NIMBY groups". I've seen their Facebook posts too, and it's true that for the most part they appear to be composed of very well-housed folks, 50-plus or 60-plus, who have been homeowners for decades and who are insulated from the personal effects of the housing shortage but who are very affronted at the idea that their neighbourhoods are set to evolve significantly. There is very much a sensibility that the current form of their neighbourhoods is ideal, that attempts to change it are somehow an attack on their communities, and the more they can slow down densification and housing growth the better.
I am one of thoses Boomers near the end of my Worklife and I definitely have some empathy for Younger folks in our Province that have done the "right things".You stayed out of jail, got an education, took on the debt to probably deliver on that with the Housing ladder just out of reach. Covid comes along and Zoom, those with got way more while pulling that ladder even higher. I have a nephew that just moved back from Newfoundland after
achieving a PHD in Physics. He is working two jobs between the Defence sector and teaching at St Mary's but he and his wife are living in an Apartment in my Sisters house. They are saving like mad to reduce their debt and build a down payment. The Irony for him is a Buddy of his started a business in the home care industry about the same time my Nephew went to grad school. His buddy now owns three group homes as well as his young family's home here in Metro Halifax.He works or doesn't when he wants.

I have not seen these Facebook groups of the newly tenured Boomers but may I ask if they have their sense of entitlement is related to their history of the early nineties. I bought my first house in 92 when Interest rates were 11.5%, Youth Unemployment 14% and regular Unemployment at 11.75%.
House prices of course were much more closely related to income and that is I think the literal disconnect with todays market. Asset prices have jumped but Incomes have not. Time seems to be the only answer from my perspective and for younger forumers I know that just sucks.
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  #11703  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 8:48 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by HarbingerDe View Post
I understand that the optics of my post are "controversial". But I consider my frustration to be completely warranted.

Given that your name is "OldDartmouthMark" I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you own a home, have a decently rent-capped apartment, or otherwise we're able to benefit from the previous decades of affordable housing and rental options to secure financial stability.

I appreciate that you're here supporting development, and enjoy uncontroversial discussion of the aesthetics and shape of housing development in our city. It is a privilege and a luxury to view housing development through that lens. I do not have that luxury.

Every canceled or dramatically limited developed further erodes my chances (and the chances of everyone who didn't get into the housing market pre-pandemic because they were too young or for any other reason) of ever owning a home or even simply surviving comfortably without the constant threat of renoviction.

I have an engineering degree. I make $70,000/yr. Yet between paying off my student loans, and paying for the car (that I need to reliably commute to my job) I cannot afford to live in this city. Hell I can barely afford to split a 2-bedroom apartment in this city if I want to contribute to my savings.

The situation is dire and getting worse by the day, so forgive me for being frustrated with people who (in their ignorance) are dead set on either making me (and people worse off than me) homeless or financially crippled for the rest of our lives by these absurd rental/housing prices.

Also, it is not ageism; it is simply a fact. I can start providing links to the Facebook community groups behind this anti-development lobbying if youd really like... The demographics are quite consistent, and unsurprising.

Most people my age can barely afford to survive. They certainly do not have the time to lobby the government to prevent new housing developments. These anti-developmemt groups are overwhelming comprised of Boomer and older Gen-X homeowners. It's a simple fact whether you like it or not.
First of all, I'm not a fan of giving out personal info on the internet, but I will say my screen name was created way back when because I grew up in 'old Dartmouth'. In retrospect, I should have been more thoughtful when creating it as people always read "Old" and assume it is an indicator of one's age. Nobody cares, yeah I know. So please spare me the implication that you know what I'm all about and what I think - it's kind of silly to make such quick decisions to pigeonhole me in the 'enemy' camp, but I understand why you do. It's how society rolls now...

Let me say that I absolutely empathize. You, and everybody else trying to get into housing has the right to be absolutely furious with the housing predicament that has been created for you/us. It's completely unacceptable, and among other factors will continue to erode from the quality of life that you have the right to expect when living in Canada. I will now avoid the inevitable political conversation that would normally happen at this point.

The part that pisses me off about all of it is (A) the ignorance of those who have the entitled attitude and no empathy... the 'boomers' and 'gen X' that you speak of, and how it reflects upon what I perceive to be the majority of people in those age groups who actually do care and are equally pissed off about it (FWIW, do you think that millennials would be any more empathetic if the situation were reversed?), and (B) that this situation has created the mindset among many of the younger generations that somehow the older generations don't deserve to have the housing that they got into when the market was fair and reasonable, and that they should be brought down to suffer like everybody else. When... IMHO the real expectation should be that the younger generations have the same fair housing market that has been experienced for the past 100+ years in Canada. It has literally all gone to shit in less than a decade, but it should NOT, by any means, be accepted as the new normal. This was done to us, and steps need to be taken to fix it, and fix it fast.

All that said, I do wonder how effective these special interest groups are in actually changing decisions - my impression is that there is a lot of momentum going the other way and that the NIMBY groups are basically being ignored, but I'll accept that I could be wrong in this regard.

Lots more can be said, but I don't want to drag out the discussion. You have a right to feel the way you do, and I have a right to call out the typical generational nonsense that has become the normal state of internet discussions. It won't change anything, but I don't have to like it either, nor do you have to give a crap about what I like or what I don't. Beautiful, isn't it?

Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. I hope things change soon - a person in your position should be deciding whether you want a nice condo downtown or a McMansion in the suburbs... not whether you should have to choose between a small house in Enfield or a crappy 1-bedroom on the peninsula...
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  #11704  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 9:06 PM
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TheNovaScotian TheNovaScotian is offline
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Angry

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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Ah yes... another installment of "us vs them" rhetoric on SSP. I was missing that as it seemed to have fallen off recently. All is right again.
Ah another installment of how can you be the victim, when I am.
If you felt this type of discourse has fallen off, it was really that people are exhausted from trying to explain obvious points ad nauseam. It's not that the situation has improved.

Instead of taking offence, have you thought to stop and listen to the chorus of people stating things are very bad and one particular group had a large part to play in all this. They have advanced educations and good jobs while still unable to own a home or are living precariously, shouldn't that be a warning sign that things are much worse than you personally feel?

The facts show one group has, through a mix of of policies profited greatly at the cost of the ones that follow. If that fact bothers you I don't really know what to tell you. There was a time and a place when rational voices were needed, that time sadly has passed.
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  #11705  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 9:25 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour View Post
Your post prompted me to check out the JRTA site for a progress update. The most recent update/news item is dated January 30, 2023. More than a year ago. Very discouraging. Oh, and they're looking to hire a summer student to assist in writing polices. There's obviously no urgency in dealing with our transportation issues. A complaint to the current govt. will result in a response such as 'we were elected to fix healthcare and that's our priority'. However, they do seem to be working hard on trying to eliminate my quarterly carbon rebate.
Yeah, this JRTA thing is pretty disappointing so far from what I've seen. They apparently hired consultants (HDR, WSP - based out of Toronto so not even local at all) but the only info I was able to get from them was them spending a bunch of time and resources on sketch model approaches to their decision-making but nothing concrete of a plan.

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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
It’s been more active than that; there was public engagement late last year, and an information session in February, and there’s more outreach/community events being held across the province this spring. The final plan is supposed to be announced in fall. Definitely agree though that they could be stepping on the gas more.
I asked them during their February session about their regional plan, existing HRM transit gaps, and if the two agencies are working together to create any kind of transportation demand management system and all I got was Lyle Lanley from the Simpsons ".....you there eating the paste! (next question)"

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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
I’ve interacted online with some people who are involved with the planning on the city side who are optimistic about what’s coming out of it, but I really don’t know how much stock to put in that. It’s all very floaty right now.
What did they say, do you remember any of it?
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  #11706  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 9:32 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
Ah another installment of how can you be the victim, when I am.
If you felt this type of discourse has fallen off, it was really that people are exhausted from trying to explain obvious points ad nauseam. It's not that the situation has improved.

Instead of taking offence, have you thought to stop and listen to the chorus of people stating things are very bad and one particular group had a large part to play in all this. They have advanced educations and good jobs while still unable to own a home or are living precariously, shouldn't that be a warning sign that things are much worse than you personally feel?

The facts show one group has, through a mix of of policies profited greatly at the cost of the ones that follow. If that fact bothers you I don't really know what to tell you. There was a time and a place when rational voices were needed, that time sadly has passed.
At this point the writing is pretty much on the wall, for me at least. I have until maybe June to find a new job/career or I'll:
1) Literally be out on the street, forced to declare bankruptcy
2) Sell everything I own (minus my car and clothes) and go live with my retired parents in NS to avoid homelessness and stave off bankruptcy a couple extra months hopefully.

The job market is basically fucked at this point. I've had 2 options collapse in the past 3 weeks due to contracts drying up, hiring freezes, construction and building projects basically halting going forward. Barring some miracle I'd guess an undeniable recession/depression is coming sooner than you think, even with the government completely fudging CPI metrics to avoid riots.

FYI, I'm still out in Saskatchewan at the moment, where the CoL is actually cheaper than NS now and the economy isn't normally half as bad either (lower taxes too!)
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  #11707  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 9:43 PM
HarbingerDe HarbingerDe is online now
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
First of all, I'm not a fan of giving out personal info on the internet, but I will say my screen name was created way back when because I grew up in 'old Dartmouth'. In retrospect, I should have been more thoughtful when creating it as people always read "Old" and assume it is an indicator of one's age. Nobody cares, yeah I know. So please spare me the implication that you know what I'm all about and what I think - it's kind of silly to make such quick decisions to pigeonhole me in the 'enemy' camp, but I understand why you do. It's how society rolls now...

Let me say that I absolutely empathize. You, and everybody else trying to get into housing has the right to be absolutely furious with the housing predicament that has been created for you/us. It's completely unacceptable, and among other factors will continue to erode from the quality of life that you have the right to expect when living in Canada. I will now avoid the inevitable political conversation that would normally happen at this point.

The part that pisses me off about all of it is (A) the ignorance of those who have the entitled attitude and no empathy... the 'boomers' and 'gen X' that you speak of, and how it reflects upon what I perceive to be the majority of people in those age groups who actually do care and are equally pissed off about it (FWIW, do you think that millennials would be any more empathetic if the situation were reversed?), and (B) that this situation has created the mindset among many of the younger generations that somehow the older generations don't deserve to have the housing that they got into when the market was fair and reasonable, and that they should be brought down to suffer like everybody else. When... IMHO the real expectation should be that the younger generations have the same fair housing market that has been experienced for the past 100+ years in Canada. It has literally all gone to shit in less than a decade, but it should NOT, by any means, be accepted as the new normal. This was done to us, and steps need to be taken to fix it, and fix it fast.

All that said, I do wonder how effective these special interest groups are in actually changing decisions - my impression is that there is a lot of momentum going the other way and that the NIMBY groups are basically being ignored, but I'll accept that I could be wrong in this regard.

Lots more can be said, but I don't want to drag out the discussion. You have a right to feel the way you do, and I have a right to call out the typical generational nonsense that has become the normal state of internet discussions. It won't change anything, but I don't have to like it either, nor do you have to give a crap about what I like or what I don't. Beautiful, isn't it?

Anyhow, thanks for the discussion. I hope things change soon - a person in your position should be deciding whether you want a nice condo downtown or a McMansion in the suburbs... not whether you should have to choose between a small house in Enfield or a crappy 1-bedroom on the peninsula...
I appreciate your clarifications and expression of empathy. To provide some clarification of my own.

I never meant to imply that you are the enemy or that all "old" people are the enemy (you've also implied that you're not that old... so such a statement wouldn't have applied to you anyway).

I never said that I want everyone to be dragged down to the precarious situation I find myself in. I have some millennial friends who are a few years older than me who got into the market just in the nick of time; I'm glad they've attained the relative wealth and stability that provides.

Everyone deserves housing. What people don't deserve is the ability to gatekeep housing from the rest of society with their ignorant and selfish campaigns against development. It is irrelevant (at present) whether Millennials would behave the same way if the tables were turned. They're not in the position now, and NOW is what matters.

You acknowledge that the housing crisis is a problem that needs to be fixed, lest this become the new normal, the NIMBY's I'm criticizing are the champions of ensuring this is the new normal with their efforts to restrict the housing supply.

As a final note, and to further illustrate why I am so frustrated, even your lament about my options in the housing market is significantly out of touch.

To afford a 1-bedroom apartment ANYWHERE on the peninsula, I would probably need to sell my car. Given how miserable public transit is here; if I'm ever forced into such a scenario I might as well quit my engineering job, move back to New Brunswick, and live in my parent's basement... Given my loan payments and other expenses, I simply cannot afford to pay $1500 for housing (this is the floor for a 1-bedroom unless you get very lucky or find a rent-capped lease transfer).

I wish it were the case that I could buy a small house in Enfield. A quick perusal of Viewpoint or Royal LePage will show you that there are zero listings for less than about $340,000. These are all mobile homes, and they are all conditionally sold. The listings that aren't conditionally sold start at about $500,000, and most of the properties for sale in Enfield are new homes in the $600,000-$900,0000 range.

With $70k income, $40k of student debt, and a $40k down-payment I can get approved for a mortgage of $220,000!!! The TD pre-approval application was quick to inform me that there is not a single listing in the HRM for less than this amount...

So I truly wish the options were a crappy peninsula 1-bedroom or a small house in Enfield... But it's more like 1 roommate or 2 roommates.

Hence my frustration with the general state of things and my acute frustration with people who are fighting any attempt to change course.

Last edited by HarbingerDe; Apr 15, 2024 at 10:10 PM.
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  #11708  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2024, 10:00 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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This is the byproduct of an entirely fake economy predicated on debt-based usury and fractional-reserve banking. When our currency is basically made up and money is printed infinitely it causes rampant inflation. The BoC and GoC essentially doubled all that fake funny-money in a matter of 4 years so... things begin to hyperinflate (assets, groceries, fuel, housing, etc.) - the value labour is no longer attached to productivity, hence we no longer have a "productive economy" to speak of. When you outsource manufacturing and 100s of thousands of good union jobs in exchange for call centre jobs and government "social infrastructure jobs" you have a workforce that is entirely dependent on the whims of international finance and industry.

Then what do they do when they cannot squeeze more money in unproductive fashion? They outsource. Now there are few (if any) call centres in areas like Cape Breton and it's all running out of India. Then they can't outsource anymore? They insource cheap labour, i.e., TFWs, "students" (lmao), and all sorts of LMIA scams (you are here). Where does this end up? One charismatic leader with a funny looking moustache later and suddenly otherwise normal people freak out, burn books, and lynch "the others" out of sheer frustration and desperation.

It's quite alarming how few people here still don't understand it. They are oblivious to the consequences of the actions and rhetoric they've espoused and benefitted from for decades until it's too late. My own parents (god bless them) were those very same baby boomers until my father had his heart explode last summer and barely survived surgery. They both went from blissful ignorance and "bootstrapping" NDP voters to "why has everything I worked for become f***ked overnight and my 3 children (all with multiple degrees and important hard skills experience) barely able to survive on their own, let alone give us grandkids?"

You said you're an engineer making $70k which is highway robbery, but what else can you do? When I started my previous career (geomatics) in 2013 I made $80k per year over a decade ago. Now if I work that same entry position it's like $60-$65k TODAY which is about half the value adjusted for inflation, let alone housing increasing 300%-500% during that timeframe.

It's so over brother

Sorry for the blog post rant.
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  #11709  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 4:20 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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My apologies guys. It sounds like things are even worse than I imagined.

I am envisioning an increase in firearms purchases among people who never considered owning one in the past, as things continue to come apart.

The optimist in me would hope that a change in federal government would start us on a better path, but at this point I'm not sure this is possible.

Best of luck.
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  #11710  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 4:21 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
Ah another installment of how can you be the victim, when I am.
WTF?
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  #11711  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 11:21 AM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by Antigonish View Post
When our currency is basically made up and money is printed infinitely it causes rampant inflation. The BoC and GoC essentially doubled all that fake funny-money in a matter of 4 years so... things begin to hyperinflate (assets, groceries, fuel, housing, etc.) - the value labour is no longer attached to productivity, hence we no longer have a "productive economy" to speak of. When you outsource manufacturing and 100s of thousands of good union jobs in exchange for call centre jobs and government "social infrastructure jobs" you have a workforce that is entirely dependent on the whims of international finance and industry.
I bought my little house in the mid-'90s for a bit over $100K. I was making in the $70K range at the time and had saved enough over the years to be able to afford the minimum down payment. But I hadn't taken into account the costs of home ownership and when it was time to renew the mortgage a few years later I had to refinance in order to get rid of some of the consumer debt I accumulated from buying the place. Over the next few years though, I got better jobs and finally was making enough to be able to handle everything while still living a modest lifestyle.

Over time that continued and finally a few years ago I was able to be mortgage-free. My house had appreciated modestly over the years, probably 3%-5% a year based on assessed values, until the last few when those went nuts. A basically identical house across the street sold last year for $500K, a staggering number for it in my view. But bigger houses in the area go for even more now. Part of that was due to a post-covid influx of people from big cities who wanted to get away from that - there are examples of that in my neighborhood. Then we have the ill-advised govt fiscal policies you referenced and the flood of immigration from outside Canada hyper-stimulating home prices. Both of those are indirectly our own doing. Add to that the growth of the govt bureaucracy where you have those people, among the few whose salaries have kept pace with or outpaced inflation assuming they are still moving up the ladder, happily buying because their jobs are safe for life. I think we are not in a good place, but don't blame it on my generation alone. There are a lot of bad decisions by those in charge to blame for this, and increasingly those decisions are being made by younger, clueless generational members and those they elect.

On the issue of planning changes demanded by the Feds to get a tiny amount of federal cash, I think there is plenty of reason to be critical of that. In established single-family home neighborhoods like mine, a big part of the appeal is exactly that aspect - the relative lack of traffic, the quiet most of the time, and the feel of the area as a place where you can get away from the hustle and bustle part of the time. Now they want 7-storey apartment boxes adjacent or next door. In the right spots those would be fine, but not looming over peoples backyards in every SFH area, which is potentially what could happen. The amazing thing is that the much ballyhooed Centre Plan is essentially tossed out the window after a decade of work because the Feds are dangling a bag of gold in front of Council, which we know will just be pissed away on useless spending by HRM.
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  #11712  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 1:12 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Now they want 7-storey apartment boxes adjacent or next door. In the right spots those would be fine, but not looming over peoples backyards in every SFH area, which is potentially what could happen. The amazing thing is that the much ballyhooed Centre Plan is essentially tossed out the window after a decade of work because the Feds are dangling a bag of gold in front of Council, which we know will just be pissed away on useless spending by HRM.
I had mentioned before that my family had experienced this very situation many years ago.

My parents were not well off, in fact it's safe to say they struggled financially their entire lives, but they were able to buy a small, old house in the DT Dartmouth area, when the area was in decline and prices were low. While it wasn't much, the house was old and had many problems, the backyard was small, but there was a bit of peacefulness to being in the yard, which backed on a large lot with a formerly grand house on it. My mother loved her gardens, and would spend every free minute during the spring and summer back there, tending her flowers and vegetable plantings. We kids would play back there all the time as well - it was small, but it was our own little piece of the outdoors and life was good, despite the struggles.

One day the old house, on the lot bordering the back side of our yard, was torn down and during the following months an apartment building was constructed, coming just a few feet up to our back fence. It was great that it now housed many people, but it killed the feel of our yard, and our house, actually. The privacy we once had was now taken away because we were in full view of several strangers who had front row seats to our yard and the windows on that side of the house. In reality, the people living there probably didn't care what we were doing, but to us it just felt weird. Not to mention that we would now hear every party anybody had, or every argument, etc. This was different from our adjacent neighbours, whom we had been able to build relationships with and thus could afford one another mutual respect and friendship to a degree.

Many people here, on SSP, would say that my family's loss was a reasonable tradeoff for the increase in density, but when it's your loss it's a different story. This is all to say that sometimes it's important to see both sides of the coin, and I can see your frustration with the planning boondoggle (can I use that word?) of the past years that is now bearing fruit. Maybe if council/HRM planning hadn't decided to saw off many new developments on the peninsula and surrounding areas at 7 floors, there wouldn't have to be as much of a knee-jerk reaction to the other aspects that have allowed the housing situation to slide into the toilet as it has.

Now, however, we need to increase supply by any means possible, and there will unfortunately be people, perhaps yourself, who will have to take the hit like my family did, in order to just have enough places for people to live, at a price that's not unaffordable to most. However, I am also aware that complaining about a loss of privacy seems somewhat minor now, compared to the current situation of well-paid professionals not even being able to afford a small, crappy, smelly, creaky, outdated apartment on the peninsula. Halifax now feels like we are moving towards a quality of life that I used to imagine would only happen in a third world nation, where the few very rich people could afford to live in comfort while the commoners lived in poverty... only it's even worse than that as people with previously-prestigious professional careers are now living in poverty, fighting over scraps and wanting to tear the throat out of anybody who is getting in their way of living the life they deserve to live. Just read the tone here... people are angry, frustrated, desperate. Anybody who knows the human condition knows that when people become desperate they become capable of doing things they never would have imagined before... so I am saddened about the possible future that all may have to endure.

That said, I still believe that the possibility exists that this could be a temporary situation, perhaps if future governments put reasonable restrictions on immigration and bring back actual production to Canada so we can build GDP by producing things rather than artificially inflating population (and overwhelming housing, healthcare, etc etc)... and the many other things of which I am probably not aware, that have to happen for Canada to even approach the quality of life that we used to enjoy. Hope is the cornerstone of life, and without it, everything collapses. The people in power have almost succeeded in removing hope from the majority of Canadians, and it's a tough pill to swallow.
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  #11713  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 4:36 PM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
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I see and feel for a lot of frustrated folks these days, myself included. I'm scarily close to @HarbringerDe's situation, same income but working in tech. I was once a proud Nova Scotian and Canadian, but I've grown to resent a lot of things about this place and have been searching for any opportunity to move away.

I understand some would laugh at that - we live in a beautiful part of the world free of war, famine, etc. But it's impossible to feel proud of this country that seems hellbent on making this generations lives impossible to live.

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  #11714  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 5:19 PM
Musquodoboit County Musquodoboit County is offline
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But....who said.....
"You will own nothing but be happy". ??

Just saying...the plan is .....
For you to be happy!! Lol
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  #11715  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 9:34 PM
Dartguard Dartguard is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County View Post
But....who said.....
"You will own nothing but be happy". ??

Just saying...the plan is .....
For you to be happy!! Lol
The present believers of this philosophy in Ottawa will in all probability be out of Office next year and then the hard 90's, if you are Federally employed, shall begin. This time however I would venture that Defence will be left alone.
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  #11716  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2024, 10:59 PM
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TheNovaScotian TheNovaScotian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
WTF?
Mark, I call them as I see them. When someone is explaining their difficult situation and you become triggered by the use of a word. Your response is to claim the victim of an ageist attack without reading between the lines. The term Boomer its not a personal attack on you, your response just derails the discourse and its exhausting.
Here's a good article that may explain how younger people are feeling currently.
https://thehub.ca/2024-04-16/eric-lo...adians-future/

I see your story differently, I read it as a number of families could finally find somewhere to live in a established neighborhood, where the city didn't have to extend services to accommodate them. One family might volunteer at Parker St church. Another decides to open a business and the community as a whole is better for it. I feel safer now when I'm walking down Albro Lake or Wyse Rd. that's for sure, though I'll still lock my car door.

If you want a better explanation for the recent housing shortage, one could easily point to immigration for the reason home prices have skyrocketed. Most older people love to cart it out as if for decades, we couldn't have allowed an appropriate amount of immigration to avoid this current demographic cliff. Instead to make up lost time, we had to increase it to a level that causes great strain on a poorly managed housing market.

That time lost instead was spent erecting municipal barriers to housing and enshrining backwards notions into municipal bylaw. When I think about housing and how little planning was done for the future, it frustrates me and many others. Instead of preparation, we got dysfunction and some ramblings about avocado toast and boot straps. This view that immigration is to blame avoids the elephant in the room, of how housing starts trended downwards since 1976. Only to be driven down further by economic crisis after economic crisis. The proverb “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit" comes to mind a lot and how few "trees" were planted.
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  #11717  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 4:05 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
Mark, I call them as I see them. When someone is explaining their difficult situation and you become triggered by the use of a word. Your response is to claim the victim of an ageist attack without reading between the lines.

etc.
I'm the one who is triggered? I claimed to be a victim?

Here are the quoted posts that set you off:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarbingerDe View Post
The Boomer NIMBY groups are all over Facebook celebrating their victories and "progress" in the crusade against solving the housing crisis.

It's incredibly infuriating. These people are lobbying to create generations of pain and financial suffering for everyone who didn't ride the housing rocket to wealth and a comfortable retirement like they did.

They fight development at every opportunity even though, ironically, most of them will never even live long enough to see the developments they so vehemently oppose... The rest of us will certainly have to live with the fallout for decades/generations though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Ah yes... another installment of "us vs them" rhetoric on SSP. I was missing that as it seemed to have fallen off recently. All is right again.
Yes Harbinger was expressing his distress over the housing situation, true. I was sarcastically referring to yet another millennial/gen Y vs boomer discussion, which I find tiresome and repetitive.

For my part, I was frustrated that the discussion wasn't going to be about the document that was mentioned, but more about age groups... yet again. Could I have been a little more sensitive with what I chose to post? Absolutely. I own it and will try to be better next time.

Then you jumped in with a bunch of assumptions and accusations, and frankly the tone of your posts are somewhat demeaning.

Harbinger and I made our points, and I suspect they have been somewhat settled for both parties (speaking for myself, anyhow).

I'm not sure what your interjection adds to the conversation, although I can understand and empathize with your anger. If making me the target of all that helps you to feel a little better about all that, I can accept that. My frustrations come out in some of my posts as well... I get it. These are tough times, and sometimes the little things can make a difference.

I don't think there's much else worth discussing that hasn't been gone over a thousand times over, so I'm putting this to rest.
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  #11718  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 5:30 AM
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Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
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It's definitely nice to hear different people's experiences with an issue. It's easy to write off those who oppose something we want as simply being bad, but change is difficult for most of us. Particularly when it feels like the change is beyond one's control and affects something as personal as one's home and immediate surroundings. And the lack of empathy happens on both sides. Not only is the pro-development side prone to writing off any opposition as selfish NIMBYs, those opposing changes often write off the opposition as greedy, corrupt developers. Sometimes the opposition also assumes the future residents would be dangerous or trashy, and other times they don't consider them at all. The focus is all on the developers.

I don't think there's any easy solution. We can to stop population growth but that comes with demographic and economic stagnation or decline due to an aging population. We can accommodate people in sprawl but that creates huge infrastructural costs, clogs communities with traffic and destroys natural habitat. Or we can accommodate people mostly within the existing urban footprint which requires people to adapt to lots of change.

A big part of the problem is that in the post-war era we designed cities with such low density that they can't house people as efficiently as they used to. A huge percentage of cities and metro areas are dominated by detached and semi-detached housing and people have come to think of that as a natural state of things in cities even though it was never really feasible or sustainable in the long term. So changes do need to happen, but we also have to be sensitive to the fact that it's extremely difficult. But that can be tough when emotions flowing and it can't really work if it's only in one direction. Like it's pretty tough to be empathetic when people show up to public meetings in war mode for instance.
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Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
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  #11719  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 3:44 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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The problem with demographics has been ongoing for decades now. Nova Scotia has/had a lot more going for it then was ever acknowledged but now I think the damage it too far done without a complete (metaphorical) nuke wiping the status quo out in one go (good luck with that).

Nova Scotia has always had a higher than average trained/educated work force. When Alberta/Saskatchewan needed 10s of thousands of trained skilled trades people almost all of them came from here in the Atlantic. In Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, etc., many people within STEM, finance, business, you name it, disproportionately come from here. And many of these people, many now multi-generational, would come back in a heartbeat and make it better but the rug is pulled and those here holding the cards may as well be saboteurs of our present and future. My brother-in-law is a doctor, originally from Amherst, and he's said time and time again he would move back in a heart beat but the government makes it extremely prohibitive to the point of not being wanted at all. How can the powers that be and their vocal supports/enablers say with a straight face that we have a demographic problem, all we can do is import 100,000 Punjabis (90% male) and call it a solution? These people are beyond incompetent, there is seriously something sinister going on.

I am from the Gen Y "echo boom" where for about 5-7 years birthrates actually went up for a period in the 1980s/early 90s and the classrooms were over capacity. Where have all these now middle aged/young adult gone? Are their kids going to the same schools they themselves went to growing up? Why have they left? Where did they go?

Nova Scotia, and Canada as a whole, does not need mass immigration, or "temporary" workers, or any BS proposed solutions. We need to invest in our own people already here and make life better for our own families and communities. I swear, Nova Scotia is so poorly operated because anyone whose been in a position of power is either a nepo-hire or legitimately mentally deficient. I still have a transit pass from August 2023 in my wallet... it was a paper slip with whole punchers through it. HRM Transit didn't even have a tap card, an app, or even proper ticket booths that gave change for ticket purchases. It's utterly 3rd world garbage and not being people from here aren't capable, it's that those who are capable got chased out and told to fuck off by our own people holding the cards.
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  #11720  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 5:52 PM
RoshanMcG RoshanMcG is offline
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The gas station at Bayers/Connaught has been demolished.

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