Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

The bigger takeaway I see is... fare collection is stupid!

Imagine if I had to pay $3 every time I entered I-15. That little annoyance, in addition to the not-insignificant personal expense, would really make me think twice about using the freeway.

"Nobody takes transit"

Well, yeah. When we charge people an inconvenient user fee every time (that only covers 5% of the operation— leading to vastly underused fixed costs), no wonder nobody rides it!

"But if we got rid of fares, too many people might right buses and trains"

And the problem???

[Atlas]

I agree with the sentiment but I think some of the apprehension with free fares is that it might cause a spike in the homeless riding the trains as shelter. Free fare makes it more difficult for transit police to ask someone to get off if they're abusing the service.

Not saying this is necessarily what I believe but I can see that being a concern.

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

It's good to see Cox getting pestered to look into the Rio Grande Plan, I just wish there was a way to get him to watch the great video Hatman made. I'm thrilled this is getting publicity before the legislative session, having the state on board is vital.

Full quote from the interview:

Benjamin Wood: "The price tag of the gondola is similar to the estimates around the Rio Grande Plan, which would transform not just the city but the entire state transportation network. Have you looked into that plan and the costs around it?"

Cox: "I have not. But we will. I mean, I know the kind of top level about the Rio Grande Plan. Look, we're always open to the best ideas and the best decisions out there. And there is nothing about this decision [about the gondola] that forecloses any future decisions or any future opportunities."

[Paniolo Man]

This was announced in the Board meeting yesterday. Purchase price is 200k per car. These cars will provide flexibility while UTA's bilevel cars undergo a midlife overhaul. Toronto offered similar used cars for 2 million, new bilevel cars are 4.3 million.



Executive director Jay Fox emphasized that these cars are not part of the long term fleet plan, just offering flexibility in the short term.

[Hatman]

$200k is a really good deal. Why is Coaster selling these for so little? Is it because these are the old style of can cars that they recently got replacements for?

Also... I hope UTA practices their 'mid-life overhaul' on these ones before touching their existing fleet.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by Hatman

$200k is a really good deal. Why is Coaster selling these for so little? Is it because these are the old style of can cars that they recently got replacements for?

Also... I hope UTA practices their 'mid-life overhaul' on these ones before touching their existing fleet.

I'm unsure about why. Coaster framed the purchase of new cars as an enabling project to almost double service, so selling cars is odd. I wonder if they'll announce that they are exercising options for more new cars once the UTA deal is final.

As for the overhaul, Coaster already has a contract to have these overhauled, UTA intends to take delivery immediately upon completion of this overhaul. It was mentioned in the meeting that Alstom was doing most of the work. UTA will paint the stripes, the rest will be taken care of.

[Paniolo Man]

UTA's new Central Garage.



It looks alright, though it is truly devastating that the Denver & Rio Grande Freight Shops couldn't be saved as initially planned. The old structure had character and history that is lost forever.



Second point, I have mixed feelings about these new TRAX seats.



They are small and uncomfortable. As I understand they are significantly easier to clean, no suspicious stains in the middle of every seat on these.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

...

Second point, I have mixed feelings about these new TRAX seats.



They are small and uncomfortable. As I understand they are significantly easier to clean, no suspicious stains in the middle of every seat on these.

They look like they'll be MUCH MORE comfortable than the old seats. The old ones actually leaned slightly forward, but these lean back and have lumbar support.

[msbutah]

Daily Trax rider and I love the new seats. I don't have to share knee space with someone (who always seems to take more than their share) and they do seem more comfortable. They are pretty close together, so navigating into them isn't as easy. They lean a lot more back which is an adjustment but comfortable in the long run.

[Paniolo Man]

The Comet Car auction ended yesterday, some of the cars in decent condition got bid up quite a bit in the final hours. All of the cars sold to two buyers, I believe they are both recyclers. The only hope now is that some of the better cars may get resold by the recyclers, but I worry that won't be the case. 318 was the most valuable comet, sold for 20k. Considering the scrap price of aluminum, these companies will pull a pretty decent profit.

Consider me sad that this likely means The Utah Railway Museum and The Heber Valley Railroad, both of which expressed interest won't get to preserve any of these cars.

[Paniolo Man]

A test train is being run for a hypothetical Denver -> Provo -> Vegas train.

I'm fine with this, though it will never be a full service option, we need Amtrak.

[Paniolo Man]

regarding seats.

[Paniolo Man]

Salt Lake Tribune, November 23 2022.

Here is a little excerpt from the article. You can get around the paywall to read the whole thing with reader mode in Firefox and Safari.

Catherine Mortimer, who lives in Glendale, is frustrated that the state already allocated funds for the expansion. In her view, the money could go to other pedestrian-friendly solutions, such as the Rio Grande Plan.

“That could do so much great for our city,” she said, “where this [I-15 widening] just perpetuates the [city’s] east-west divide and creates far more pollution that our beautiful valley just can’t sustain anymore.”

Mortimer, who biked to Rose Park Elementary School to speak out against the project, believes the UDOT proposal would backfire, increasing traffic and exacerbating the poor air quality on the west side, which still suffers the consequences of redlining practices; housing a disproportionate amount of polluting industries and not so many environmental reliefs, such as trees.

Walking into the UDOT informational meeting, Mortimer said she felt like the decision of expanding the highway has already been made, and that the state is just looking for feedback on which alternatives the community prefers. But she hopes to flip that with the help of her neighbors.

“I have to have hope, I have to show up, which is why I’m here,” she said.”

Salt Lake City Council Member Victoria Petro-Eschler, who represents Rose Park in District 1, has registered staunch opposition to the scenario all along.

“To widen the highway and imperil the homes of my westside neighbors is a wholly unacceptable plan–especially when we’re planning for the next 50 years,” Petro-Eschler responded in a text to The Tribune.

She’d like to see the highway from 600 North to 1300 South hidden underground. Petro-Eschler believes burying the interstate would improve the quality of life for residents and “would allow us to reclaim land and create housing or a business district.”

“The westside has already been scarred by the highway system. We’re bordered on three sides by them and incur the connectivity difficulties they cause, the sound pollution they create, the pm 2.5 [pollution particles] they emit,” Petro-Eschler wrote.

Seems like people are wising up to UDOT's bullshit. Go leave a comment, mention the Rio Grande Plan.

[bob rulz]

I really hope we can rally enough community opposition to kill the expansion plans for good.

[Paniolo Man]

Letter: Frontrunner expansion and Rio Grande Plan are better investments than widening I-15


(Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune) Traffic on I-15 in Farmington on Wednesday, April 22, 2020.

UDOT recently revealed plans to spend as much as $1.6 billion on a project that would widen I15 to as many as 16 lanes between Salt Lake City and Farmington. These funds could be spent in far better ways.

In the past UTA has stated that a complete double tracking of Frontrunner would cost around a billion dollars, while the authors of the Rio Grande Plan estimate it would cost between three hundred and five hundred million dollars.

These two projects combined would likely cost less than the proposed I15 widening and have a much better outcome. Getting more riders onto Frontrunner will decongest I15, double tracking will improve reliability, frequency, and travel time. The Rio Grande Plan would create a central station much closer to downtown which would also serve to encourage more people to commute by train, and remove some of the most deadly grade crossings in Salt Lake City, saving lives. The current road having less traffic is greatly desirable to a larger road having the same amount of traffic.

Better transit does not only benefit those who use it directly, it benefits everyone. These projects would bring economic growth, cleaner air, and save lives. Transit investments like these deserve the same time and money from the state as large highway projects.

Paniolo Man, Logan

[Hatman]

Amazing work, Paniolo Man! I love to see it!

[Paniolo Man]

Letter: Improved rail transit would benefit everyone

Letter: Improved rail transit would benefit everyone
Nov 30, 2022

Utah is growing, more people are going more places and it’s making our roads a mess. UDOT recently revealed their plans to widen I15 between Farmington and Salt Lake City, for an estimated price tag of 1.6 Billion Dollars. While this project would relieve congestion, it would also make a larger, more confusing road. I can’t speak for everyone, however I believe that having less traffic on the existing layout would be more ideal than having more traffic across more lanes. We should preserve neighborhoods, not pave them over to shave off a few minutes of travel time.

The idea of increasing frequency on Frontrunner by double tracking and even electrifying has been discussed extensively, and even allocated funding by the state legislature. Yet any time projects like a complete double tracking of Frontrunner, or the Rio Grande Plan are discussed, there is never enough money. Our state and local leaders greatly undervalue transit because they never use it. They understand the frustration of being stuck in traffic on I15, they do not understand the annoyance of being on a delayed train sitting in a station waiting for its turn on the single track. What they also fail to understand is that if rail transit were to be improved people would be more inclined to commute by train, thus freeing up space on the interstate.

There is growing support in Utah for rail transit improvements. Governor Cox has even expressed interest in statewide regional rail service. It is time for our elected officials to start making true on promises to improve transit, and as long as UDOT continues receiving funding for billion-dollar road projects, I don’t want to hear about how there isn’t money for Frontrunner. Let’s get rail transit the attention it deserves. After all, transit benefits everyone, not just those who ride it.

Paniolo Man,

Logan

[Paniolo Man]

Updated info on the Future of Light Rail Study from today's board meeting.

UTA's light rail vision: No Rio Grande Plan in there yet.


Fleet: Despite the current rebuld project on the SD units, UTA is looking at replacements already.


Infrastructure


Priority: Probably the best news in here.


Service


Cost:

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Updated info on the Future of Light Rail Study from today's board meeting.

UTA's light rail vision: No Rio Grande Plan in there yet.

Add in a Blue line extension to Lehi and I think this is about the best we can hope for with the current central station. The RGP is the missing piece to make the downtown rail network make sense.

That said, apparently the only project in the next 10 years is the minuscule S-Line extension to Highland? 2033 for the 400S/400W extensions and Orange Line? 2043 for Orange to airport? Seems really pessimistic to me. Those should all be goals for the next 10 years, plus Blue to Lehi and S-Line to Millcreek.

Otherwise, all good improvements.

[bob rulz]

The only way those expansions will happen faster is with dedications from the state and likely matching federal grants. Write your legislators to promote getting these expansions done faster, show that there's interest.

[ajiuO]

I love the rio grand as the intermodal hub plan. Does this plan actually stand a chance? I actually think they should go a little bit further with it. The train box should go all the way to 600N and come back above ground in the old union Pacific train yard. This would clear up more land, and eliminate the north temple and 600n overpasses, create less of a divide between the west side of our city, and be much safer for west high school students, and the other pedestrians.

I guess the main problem with this idea would be the city Creek aqueduct that runs under North Temple. There is no reason that it couldn’t be diverted down 400W and then up 1000N to the Jordan river. That would be a relatively small project in the grand scope of things…. And well worth it