Atlantic Canada airport thread

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by homebody

Oh well. I’m sure someone would fill the void. Flair 2x daily year round to Toronto and Montreal!! Morning and evening.

1.Airlines like Flair aren't much use unless all you want to do is to go nonstop point to point. No extensive network of flights for connections to the US or the rest of the world ....no code share and not part of a major alrline alliance. AFAIK Flair won't even let you book travel past Toronto to the other places they do fly on the same ticket. A cynic might say that's so if they strand you mid trip in TO they have no responsibility to do anything for you because you weren't technically "in transit"

2. Discount airlines have a long history of "here today, gone tomorrow" in Canada. A tough, sparsely populated market with skinny routes is not kind to that segment of the industry. While Flair could well be a big success story it could also end up as just another failed discount airline.

3. Westjet tried competing with AC in the east.....they've decided to return to a focus on western Canada. I'm still not sure that isn't something the competition board shouldn't be looking into. It seemed awfully convenient that Air Canada decided to reduce their presence in the west about the same time Westjet largely withdrew from the east. Quid Pro Quo anybody?

[Nashe]

The hot mess that is Canadian airline-space makes me wanna cry compared to how good / reliable a city-to-city (no stopsies!) crown HSR would be on modern infrastructure.

"Jets are so FAST flying in a big country!"

Yeah, but the flying is the EASY part.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Nashe

The hot mess that is Canadian airline-space makes me wanna cry compared to how good / reliable a city-to-city (no stopsies!) crown HSR would be on modern infrastructure.

"Jets are so FAST flying in a big country!"

Yeah, but the flying is the EASY part.

Given Canada's size and population density HSR is a pipedream for anywhere other than Toronto to Montreal (maybe Windsor-Quebec City but that's questionable) Just too much infrastructure cost for too few riders.

What we really need is competition and that would require an end to cabotage restrictions in the airline industry.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Given Canada's size and population density HSR is a pipedream for anywhere other than Toronto to Montreal (maybe Windsor-Quebec City but that's questionable) Just too much infrastructure cost for too few riders. What we really need is competition and that would require an end to cabotage restrictions in the airline industry.

Oh, I know, I just see airlines as a race to the bottom here, that's all.

A Windsor-QC HSR corridor wouldn't cost as much as the Trans Mountain Pipeline total investment. And wouldn't be any LESS profitable!

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I was looking at the YSJ AC schedule for Nov-Jan and it looks like it's only going to 2x a day to Montreal and TO and only mid day and supper hour departures.....still no early morning departures or late arrivals so connections to and from other destinations will continue to be a PITA (can you say 'overnight layover'?). As for same day return business travel to either city......forget it All in all still a really bad schedule that will see people continuing to have to drive to Moncton, Bangor, Halifax, Portland etc Unless flights to Montreal/Toronto come back to 3 flights/day ( was 4 to TO in the busy season) with a schedule that facilitates same day connections YSJ's future looks questionable.



https://services.aircanada.com/porta...metable-en.pdf

For me it is the same ordeal that I go through yearly when I book my flight to Myrtle Beach South Carolina. I look at either Moncton or Halifax and the prices are ridiculous. Ever since WestJet cut their Moncton to Toronto flight it makes it hard to even connect into Delta’s east coast network through Toronto. Plus due to pricing and flight options I have to drive to Bangor or Portland.
For an example when I booked my trip this year I was looking at 2184.23 with an overnighter in Toronto and connection in Newark in business class out of Moncton versus the 727USD thAt I paid flying out of Portland with Delta in business with one stop in Atlanta. I wish the Greater Moncton International airport would realize the difference in pricing versus Canada and the United States and we do need more flights with WestJe to Toronto and a non stop US fight to either the New York, Boston and even Atlanta. This could help lower prices out of Moncton.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

For me it is the same ordeal that I go through yearly when I book my flight to Myrtle Beach South Carolina. I look at either Moncton or Halifax and the prices are ridiculous. Ever since WestJet cut their Moncton to Toronto flight it makes it hard to even connect into Delta’s east coast network through Toronto. Plus due to pricing and flight options I have to drive to Bangor or Portland.
For an example when I booked my trip this year I was looking at 2184.23 with an overnighter in Toronto and connection in Newark in business class out of Moncton versus the 727USD thAt I paid flying out of Portland with Delta in business with one stop in Atlanta. I wish the Greater Moncton International airport would realize the difference in pricing versus Canada and the United States and we do need more flights with WestJe to Toronto and a non stop US fight to either the New York, Boston and even Atlanta. This could help lower prices out of Moncton.

Like many sun/vacation destinations a lot of AC's flights south seem to go down in the morning and back in the afternoon. With AC's new YSJ schedule that is very apt to mean two days of travel with an overnight in Toronto. That takes away one advantage flying out of SJ had. If you have to overnight anyway you might as well fly out of Portland and save some $$.

I agree the pricing difference can be startling. I once bought 3 return business class tickets to LA. AC from Saint John was going to be right around $15,000 for the three of us. Delta from Portland via Atlanta was about $4500CAD for the three tickets. That was nearly 15 years ago but I still remember the numbers because of how shocked I was. I recall thinking that even after gas, meals ,hotel etc I was paying myself about $500 an hour to drive to Portland and back.

Just for fun I compared one way Portland to Vancouver vs Saint John-Van on a weekday in early November Economy from Portland was $353CAD Saint John was $1009CAD Business was $874CAD out of Portland vs 2652 from SJ. If it wasn't for winter driving issues I can't imagine why anyone would fly out of Saint John.

[cliff2121]

Interesting discussion about flying out of SJ, though reduced Toronto flights on AC have also occurred at YQM and YFC as well. It makes me wonder if Porter's expansion might present some more options to people flying out of NB.

I recently flew Porter non-stop to YTZ and self-connected to a flight a few hours later out of YYZ using the UP Express. The schedule worked well and while there was the risk of a missed connection, even considering change fees it would have been worth it to fly out of Moncton that way versus the time, gas, and parking expense of flying out of another city.

With WestJet having significantly reduced flights out of NB, hopefully Porter will offer more connection choices, especially as they add more jet service out of YYZ and YOW.

[MonctonRad]

I am hopeful that Porter may initiate jet service to Pearson from YQM (while maintaining our current connections to Ottawa and Billy Bishop).

I appreciate your adventure in Toronto using the UP Express to Pearson, but, for connections to western Canada, I think it would be easier to just use the existing service between Moncton and Ottawa. Porter has jet service from Ottawa to the major western Canadian cities. Ottawa could in fact become a mini hub for Porter.

[Freddypop]

Suspect Porter has bigger plans for the east when the St Hubert airport terminal expansion that they are part of is completed. That will likely be their gateway to the west for YYT, YDF, YYG,YFC,YQM at least. They may be motivated to add YQY to this list over time. YHZ will continue to offer direct flights to YUL and points west due to the volume of flights that the competition offers.

Believe that YHU is sked to be completed in 2025?

[MonctonRad]

This is true.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is true.

Does Porter do code share or belong to an airline alliance? Their route map is pretty limited for connections on from central Canada/

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Does Porter do code share or belong to an airline alliance? Their route map is pretty limited for connections on from central Canada/

They code share with an eclectic group of airlines (Iceland Air, Air Transat, Jet Blue, Azores Airlines, El Al and Qatar Airways.

As they continue to roll out their fleet of new Embraer jets, their connections will improve.

[cliff2121]

To clarify, I self connected from YTZ to another airline at YYZ. Slight risk but better than driving and parking in a far away airport. This was due to AC's lack of midday flights. Was willing to pay possible change fees.

I agree though, hope Porter will increase flights and connection options from Maritime airports!

[q12]

Some good news for Maritimers heading to United States Northeast through Halifax Stanfield's U.S preclearance terminal.

A new 2x Daily on Delta Airlines from YHZ to LGA . It offers what people are looking for, an early morning flight down to New York and afternoon flight back to make connections work in both directions. American Airlines is also adding 1x daily YHZ to LGA. Competition on this route is good.

Starting in June here are the four scheduled daily flights from YHZ to NYC airports:





Where you can connect to from New York LaGuardia:



Halifax is only one of three airports in Canada, the others being Toronto and Montreal with non-stop service to LGA.

Updated 2024 non-stop to the U.S. Northeast from Halifax Stanfield:

Boston

Air Canada 1x Daily (78 seat Q400)
American Airlines 1x Weekly Seasonal (80 seat E175)

New York area airports

Air Canada EWR 1x Daily (78 seat Q400)
American Airlines LGA 1x Daily Seasonal (80 seat E175)
Delta Airlines LGA 2x Daily (80 seat E175)

Philadelphia

American Airlines 1x Daily Seasonal (128 seat A319)

Washington Reagan

American Airlines 1x Weekly Seasonal (80 seat E175)

[homebody]

Source tells me that the airport main runway will be lengthened to facilitate air cargo. Announcement soon they are saying.

[DyAm00394]

This was posted by another member over in the Saint John Project Thread, but I thought I should share this info on this thread.





These renderings are from a property listing: https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ick/can2014080

"Welcome to an unparalleled opportunity at the Saint John Airport, where premium commercial land awaits your vision. Strategically located in a high-traffic, highly visible area, this land lease opportunity offers unparalleled connectivity to existing infrastructure, making it an ideal investment for your business's long-term success.

Immediate Opportunities:


Local Services Zone (Up to 17 Acres): Perfect for a fuel service station, quick-service restaurant, retail, and more. Prime location at the airport's entrance, witnessing constant traffic inflow.



Airport Amenities Zone (Up to 20 Acres): Ideal for a hotel, food and beverage establishments, professional services, and more. Positioned just behind the main terminal, providing a unique opportunity to enhance traveler experiences.


In 2022, the Saint John Airport welcomed over 149,000 passengers. Here's why this location stands out:



Positioned within 18 km of Saint John's dynamic downtown core and the bustling Port of Saint John.

Benefits from a Free Trade Zone (FTZ) designation, streamlining business operations.

Operational 24/7, providing unparalleled flexibility for businesses.

Recognized as a safe, secure, and efficient airport, offering cost savings and maximum operational efficiencies.

Boasts two runways for enhanced accessibility.

Strategic proximity to major Canada/USA border crossing points within a 3-hour drive.

Ideal location for easy access to major consumer markets in the Maritimes.

Conveniently situated close to the Trans-Canada highway.


The airport is not only a hub for current activities but also presents exciting prospects for the future. Future plans envision a large-scale logistics park offering opportunities for air-related services, manufacturing, and light industrial ventures. In addition, there are future plans for an on-site 200-acre solar farm. Further enhancements include the extension of the runway by an additional 10,000 feet, aligning with ongoing airside development initiatives encompassing air cargo facilities, aircraft maintenance capabilities, and state-of-the-art training facilities. These forward-looking projects underscore the airport's dedication to growth and innovation.

The Saint John Airport is on a trajectory of growth, providing a unique opportunity to align your success with the region's vision. Join the ranks of forward-thinking businesses and become a part of the success story at the Saint John Airport".

[CryingAutumn]

I've heard of a plan for an extended runway for Charlottetown's Airport, along with room being made for another terminal. Is this true? I haven't found much, if anything on it.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

This was posted by another member over in the Saint John Project Thread, but I thought I should share this info on this thread.





These renderings are from a property listing: https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ick/can2014080

I wonder if Cooke is one of the key players? How does their product currently get to market? I'm assuming it's frozen and trucked out? Where is their cold storage facility?

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

I wonder if Cooke is one of the key players? How does their product currently get to market? I'm assuming it's frozen and trucked out? Where is their cold storage facility?

Yeah all of the fish from Cookes is shipped by truck from their plants in St. George and Black's Harbour. Mostly St. George. A lot is shipped south to Boston so having air cargo out of YSJ would be good to ship quick to Boston and in large quantities

[DyAm00394]

A hotel next to terminal a part of new vision for Saint John Airport.

Hotel would be for the community as well as passengers, says airport CEO Sandy Ross.

The Saint John Airport wants developers to know it's open for business — and to new ideas.

Airport CEO Sandy Ross said the airport has space available and is keen to partner with developers to "diversifying the revenue streams for the airport."

He said the COVID-19 pandemic underscored "a certain fragility" in how the airport's bottom line is so closely tied with revenue from passenger travel.

The idea is to lease airport property to a third party that would take over the development of the project.

The airport hired Colliers, which offers commercial real estate services, and commissioned an artist's rendering of a couple of possibilities to consider.

"This is a visioning document for us," Ross said. "This is where we're headed. But we're not there today. This is about letting the market know that we're open for business."

While a lot of space is available, Ross said the initial focus is on two separate parcels of land along Loch Lomond Road.

The first is where Loch Lomond Road meets Route 111, the Airport Arterial, on a portion of the property commonly referred to as "the sliding hill."

Ross said they've envisioned a "local services zone" on that seven-hectare plot that could include a gas station, quick-service restaurant, retail, and more.

The second area is eight hectares adjacent to the entrance to the airport terminal and includes the land once used for a driving range.

Ross said nothing has been decided, and the airport authority remains open to new ideas and suggestions.

The renderings, for example, show a hotel and parking garage in what is currently part of the long-term parking area.

Ross said if a hotel were contemplated, it would likely make the most sense to locate it along Loch Lomond Road so that it could not only serve the airport, but also the local community, including St. Martins, where there is no hotel.

He said it would make sense to construct any future hotel as close to the terminal building as possible "so that if someone were staying at the hotel and wanted to get to their flight without necessarily going back out into the cold and snow … then having it adjacent to the hotel would make good sense."

If a hotel did take over existing parking, Ross said, the airport would certainly make sure there was plenty of parking.

Even before Colliers' ad was posted publicly, Ross said the airport was already in discussions with potential developers.

"So we've got a number of different folks we've been chatting with about everything from a service station to a grocery store to quick-serve restaurants."

Ross said the airport even commissioned a study of the "viability of a hotel and the preliminary study came back very positive."

He said it wouldn't just be a hotel for air passengers, but "more of a community hotel" that would serve the area between the hotels on the city's east side and the St. Martins and Fundy coast area.

"We're a pretty small airport to go get that, but the combination of the airport and the community seems to make it worthwhile."

Last year, the Saint John Airport had 149,000 passengers fly in or out. That, said Ross, is about 60 per cent of the airport's peak years in 2018 and 2019.

He projects next year they'll be at about 70 per cent.

"I think most of the airports in Atlantic Canada have been working to get back to 100 per cent" of pre-pandemic levels.

Given the expansion of Saint John's port and rail businesses, Ross said the airport authority "could envision a future where the Saint John Airport could be a logistics and business hub."

He said the long-term goal would be to develop the land deeper into airport territory "as a sort of an industrial park or a commercial park" that could include air-related services, manufacturing and light-industrial ventures.

Those developments could eventually help lead to an extension of the runway, said Ross. He said there's enough property to allow for a runway of up to 3,000 metres, but development would depend on having "a very robust long-distance cargo business — that does not exist at the moment."

Some interest already

Christine Stanley is a commercial real estate agent with Colliers, which is trying to spread the word to developers that the Saint John Airport is open to new business partnerships.

She said the company often helps facilitate long-term leases like the one the airport is looking for.

The ad only "went live" last week, but Stanley said they've been "working in the background" before the launch and "have some interested parties at the moment that we have been working with."

Although there are some letters of intent, there's nothing yet in writing, she said”.

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...pers-1.7041258